Yeah, I'm just pulling your leg.This shooting wasn't even because they thought he was a threat but likely because he refused to comply (since he was mentally retarded and the 69 y.o. guy could talk him to sleep, that's pretty obvious). There isn't even any mention of aggressive behavior, he just didn't obey the cop's every order so the cop killed him - enough to leave the front door riddled with bullet holes, too !
Gritsmaster said, December 17, 2014, 06:03:41 amthe concept of "it happens to everyone therefore it's not racist" is a rather obnoxious stance that gets taken a bit too frequently to avoid talking about it.but that's the definition of something not being racist. if it happens to everybody regardless of their color it's not racist. if race wasn't a factor then it's not racist. if a klansman stabs a black dude it's because that's the point of the kkk so of course it's racist. if the kkk stabbed people regardless of color they wouldn't be racist. not that it would be right obviously, but it's not racist. bringing up the kkk makes your analogy dogshiti don't know what the point of making this about race is, other than increasing racial tension and dividing everybodyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2L1zcRwPSghttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadian-pro-ferguson-rally-organizers-ask-whites-to-stay-in-background/article21781408/how does any of this shit help. what's the endgame here. a law that says black people can't be shot by cops? ask potential cops "Do you hate the blacks" before they join the force, like that's going to do shit? the right approach is ending excessive police brutality as a whole, ignoring potential racism
Sorry, let me amend my quote:Gritsmaster said, December 17, 2014, 06:03:41 amthe concept of "it happens to everyone therefore this specific incident is not racist" is a rather obnoxious stance that gets taken a bit too frequently to avoid talking about it.I get what you're saying, I just adamantly disagree with a lot of it. The bigger, more fixable issue IS police brutality. However, the ongoing struggle for black people (or minorities in general) to be seen as equal is one that has been simultaneously being fought for hundreds of years. Although legally there's a limited amount you can do, bringing awareness to racial injustice is beyond important. When something like this happens and you just walk away like "nope, not racist", it's made worse.It's possible to point out the injustices of racial profiling/violence and police brutality at the same time. Being opposed to talking about it doesn't help the issue at all. It never has.
Addendum : if you try to fix the big problems and ignore the small problems that make up the big problems, you will fail and you'll get laughed at.edit... You know what, scratch that. Authorities killing whoever the fuck they want just because they didn't obey their every order or "resisted arrest" or because the police didn't understand what was going on, and then protecting itself because they're the authorities and they're the ones who decide, is a bigger problem than racism. I'm sorry but that's just how it is and nobody wants to admit it.Although it's true that racism is much more "common ground" and much more ingrained in society. But people whose power and authority got to their head and won't admit it, that's a problem much more ancient and much stronger than racism.
"It is important for you to convey to the public that police officers pursue criminality, not color. Officers must have a reason to make contact with an individual. They must be able to explain later in court that they had either a reasonable suspicion or probable cause to believe the individual had committed or was about to commit an offense. The fact is that more than 95 percent of police contacts are handled without rising above the level of dialog. This is because most people are cooperative and compliant. This is the way it should be, because it is unlawful to resist and or obstruct an officer, while in the performance of his/her duty. If a person disagrees with a stop or an arrest, the place to argue the case vigorously is in a court of law, not on the street." source And"The Lakota People’s Law Project strongly disagrees with Police Chief Karl Jegeris’s decision to deny the permit for Lakota people to participate in an Anti-Police Brutality March and Rally in Rapid City. The march, which is being organized by LPLP Attorney Chase Iron Eyes, Cody Hall and James Swan was slated for Friday at the Rushmore Plaza Civic Center, the same site where the Lakota Nation Invitational is being held.""Police Chief Jegeris sent a letter to Hall, Swan, and Iron Eyes, stating that Hall’s permit request had been denied for “public safety reasons,” yet another unsubtle irony given that Jegeris will effectively disallow a protest that calls into question the tactics of his own department." Source My opinion is that while real police brutality does exist and minorities are typically treated with more suspicion, police training shouldn't change. I would hope that wearing a body camera wouldnt make any officer try to second guess or over analyze his training. Going back to the Ohio WalMart case: "When Ronald Ritchie called 911 from the aisles of a Walmart in western Ohio last month to report that a black man was “walking around with a gun in the store”, he said that shoppers were coming under direct threat.“He’s, like, pointing it at people,” Ritchie told the dispatcher. Later that evening, after John Crawford III had been shot dead by one of the police officers who hurried to the scene in Beavercreek, Ritchie repeated to reporters: “He was pointing at people. Children walking by.” "Crawford, 22, turned out to be holding an unloaded BB air rifle that he had picked up from a store shelf. After Ritchie said Crawford appeared to be “trying to load” the gun, the 911 dispatcher relayed to an officer that it was believed the gunman “just put some bullets inside”. source another source It seems to me the person calling in the false 911 call is the one accountable.
MissB said, December 18, 2014, 12:15:40 am"It is important for you to convey to the public that police officers pursue criminality, not color. Officers must have a reason to make contact with an individual. They must be able to explain later in court that they had either a reasonable suspicion or probable cause to believe the individual had committed or was about to commit an offense. The fact is that more than 95 percent of police contacts are handled without rising above the level of dialog. This is because most people are cooperative and compliant. This is the way it should be, because it is unlawful to resist and or obstruct an officer, while in the performance of his/her duty. If a person disagrees with a stop or an arrest, the place to argue the case vigorously is in a court of law, not on the street." Counter argument : stop and frisk. Instantly renders the above quote null and void since it's a lie. (yes, I know, stop and frisk is only in some particular place, but that changes nothing)The onus isn't on the citizens, it's on the cops. The cops don't have to make citizens understand cops better, cops have to be the ones to understand citizens. Their authority doesn't mean they can become tyrants murdering anyone who doesn't listen to them.QuoteIt seems to me the person calling in the false 911 call is the one accountable.The 911 calls are indeed often bullshit in those cases, but the cops still have to assess the situation by themselves without such massive prejudice. Was the BB gun visually recognizable as fake ? If not, the company that makes them should get sued for being criminally dangerous. If yes, then the cop should be sued for being a fucking moron and a murderer.There's probably tons of 911 calls all the time in a single day, it's the police's job to filter them out and figure out which ones are legit and which ones are full of shit.
DKDC said, December 18, 2014, 12:41:30 amThere's probably tons of 911 calls all the time in a single day, it's the police's job to filter them out and figure out which ones are legit and which ones are full of shit.OK, you made me laugh.
I guess that sometimes you just don't know how someone will react to very simple actionsI think this video also adds a bit more perspective to the issue:And in this case, imagine what would have happened if the Defendant had died and couldn't subsequently defend himself. I think it's dangerous to assume that one side will always be honest and aims to uphold justice:
"CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Heartless Felons gang gave its members orders to kill white police officers to avenge black lives taken by white police officers, including the Nov. 21 Tamir Rice shooting, officials said." yeah this will really help
DKDC said, December 15, 2014, 09:27:08 pmIt may be one, but talking about it as one is guaranteed to get nowhere. If you want to solve the issue, you have to address the underlying problem - that the cops can kill people just because they're afraid, then it turns out they were wrong and the guy really wasn't a threat at all, and yet they get away with murder. Focusing on the race issue is a sure fire way for this to never get anywhere. It's happened before, several times.Titiln said, December 17, 2014, 04:17:26 amblack people aren't the only ones on the receiving end of police brutality. go look up some other cases. these took me a couple minutes on googleGritsmaster said, December 17, 2014, 04:35:20 amSo if a klansmen stabs a black guy its all good because people of all races get stabbedcooSadly, the same can be said about not making it a race issue when people believe it is.I agree with the tiger, if won't help if we make it a race issue. People will actively try to dismiss it for various reasons: The groups who claim it is will be considered ludicrous of their actions and will be either placed under a looking glass, people waiting for them to do something disapproving or they simply wait if it's a sure fire thing. A majority of the people will believe it doesn't pertain to them, and will actively or passively dismiss it. A majority of the people or a group of people that has the means to help will feel it to be attacking them due to not being in the race it's pertaining to, or in the race that is targeting the race, and will actively defend themselves The majority will attempt not to be for or against it for fear of confrontation.We as Americans need to make it an American issue if we want to stop this.
MissB said, December 18, 2014, 03:33:27 pm"CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Heartless Felons gang gave its members orders to kill white police officers to avenge black lives taken by white police officers, including the Nov. 21 Tamir Rice shooting, officials said." yeah this will really help I don't really see the relevancy in pertinence to the discussion. Any protest movement has at least one faction of ignorant dickheads but they neither take away from peaceful protests, nor excuse cop behaviour. You might as well have posted black panther stuff. What exactly are you trying to say here, I'm genuinely confused.
The police in Cleveland are being warned they are targets for revenge killings. This is probably going to make them even more apt to shoot first and possibly cause more innocents to die. East Cleveland is ugly during the best of times.
nypd cops caught on camera beating up already cuffed 12 year old.http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-plainclothes-officer-hits-youth-cuffed-article-1.2050762See its improving, no one shot him. Crisis averted, everyone go home.MissB said, December 18, 2014, 03:16:51 amDKDC said, December 18, 2014, 12:41:30 amThere's probably tons of 911 calls all the time in a single day, it's the police's job to filter them out and figure out which ones are legit and which ones are full of shit.OK, you made me laugh.why are you being so patronizing about that. he's right, the Cop's job includes assessing threats, otherwise we would just send out drones to nuke out any area where people were reported to be threatening.If I call the cops on your house for threatening to shoot out your neighbours they arent supposed to go in there and just put you down without fact checking.
Iced said, December 19, 2014, 03:44:25 pmwhy are you being so patronizing about that. he's right, the Cop's job includes assessing threats, otherwise we would just send out drones to nuke out any area where people were reported to be threatening.If I call the cops on your house for threatening to shoot out your neighbours they arent supposed to go in there and just put you down without fact checking.It doesnt work that way here. There are 300,000,000+ firearms in this country and an emergency report that someone is loading an AK-47 in a public place and waving it at children is going to be acted on.
Acted on, sure, you can even send the SWAT. But CHECK IF THE GUN ISN'T A GODDAMN TOY BEFORE YOU FUCKING SHOOT SOMEONE IN THE FACE. If you don't, you're a murderer, flat out. THAT is how it works : you look where you go, who you're dealing with, and you assess the threat by your own eyes BEFORE committing murder. Like Iced said, if someone calls the cops on you making false claims of that exact same nature, they're not supposed to burst in and shoot you without looking.In fact, I'm pretty sure that's the whole reason they send only on pair of cops to check it out, and not directly the SWAT when they get a call about someone with a gun in a store. Because I'm pretty sure that a shoot-out at a store would warrant a bigger intervention than just a pair of cops. They're here to assess the situation, and then say if it needs more or not.Apparently you somehow thought I meant "try and guess if it's serious before even sending someone in". That's retarded.
MissB said, December 20, 2014, 03:23:33 amIt doesnt work that way here. There are 300,000,000+ firearms in this country and an emergency report that someone is loading an AK-47 in a public place and waving it at children is going to be acted on. Sorry b but that notion is ridiculous.Its an open carry state, no matter what police gets as a report might always be a lie or a false flag. No cop in the civilized world would go in and shoot someone down because there was a call claiming he was being a threat. Thats why you assess threats. If there wasnt open carry you could say that there was no reason to assume a man with a gun was not a threat, but like you said, there are 300,000,000+ firearms in the coutnry, are the cops supposed to shoot everyone that carries one?http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/27645689/ft-bend-police-prosecutors-accused-of-abuse-in-swat-incidenthere another instance, this one went to court, white guy taking a shower , they swatted him beat him up, tazed him, and then tried to prosecute him for resisting arrest. He was found not guilty but had to go into bankruptcy to defend himself.
While I am going to make this a somewhat racial comment, I truly mean to make it more for it's irony and as an observation. I find it funny (read: tragically ironic) that all this police brutality is going on in the country, predominantly against black men and especially in open areas, where the suspect is 'carrying a weapon and may be a danger to others' and is then shot, or manhandled, or killed because of probable social discrimination (read: handled differently because of race, not be JUST because of race), yet every time there is a school shooting, EVERY TIME used figuratively not factually, the suspect is USUALLY a white male. And they always manage to come into the schools with guns and no one is the wiser or has any inclination that the suspect 'would ever do something like this'. But it's always the rowdy black students that are always under the watchful eyes in the schools. Mind you, usually there is a police standoff with these school shooting suspects, and they usually end up taking their own lives, but I can't help but wonder if the same would happen in a situation where the suspect WAS actually a black student?I know this doesn't particularly pertain to the police brutality issue, but I feel it's more observation on the social discrimination that surrounds us.I expect SOME backlash for this comment, as I'm sure that some will take this comment out of context. If need be, just ask what my point is if it wasn't clear, and I shall try to clarify.
