YesNoOk
avatar

Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic (Read 10612 times)

Started by Iced, May 19, 2015, 04:41:48 pm
Share this topic:
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#21  May 20, 2015, 02:06:51 am
  • ****
    • Poland
Don't get me wrong but this is happens when every single human being is able to express his opinion in freely to everyone. I'm all for freedom of speech but when I see what bullshit people write in Internet I wonder if having that kind of freedom is good thing, because it's clearly being abused by moronic individuals.

It's Game of Thrones for fuck sake and it's not first time they show somethng controversial. If you watch it you should expect thing kind of things. And it's not like it was shown in full glory. We never saw anything aside the sounds and look on Theon's face. Maybe it's horrible thing to say but I can count many way worse rape scenes.

And these retards forget one thing. While show is set in fantasy genre and in fictional world, Martin (author of the book series) portraits middle age society quite accurately. As cruel and unpleasant it sounds that's how most wedding nights looked like, back in those times, unless lady was lucky. It was harsh world. Young girls were often wed against their will to old rich men, who tresated them like property. It's still happen in some cultures. Is it good ? No., Is it bad? Yes.  But it doesn't change the fact that show is telling the truth about how was to be a woman in these times. And they don't do it to promote or justify a rape. They do it to remind us how it was back then,so we that we can be gratefull that we live here and now when such things aren't happening anymore (for most part)

And you know I just wish people just sometimes keep their opinion for themselves. I mean if you don't like something, then don't watch it, change the channel, and move on. Often idiotic articles and opinions are spread and get known because people can't resist themselves from commenting. If something it's fucked up, then you should just ignore it. People insteading shutting themselves, choose to put more fire into argument and suddenly stuff intially was laughed is becoming big thing that everyone is talking about. It's internet, why you should care about winning argument with person who you will proably never going to meet in real life ?   
"If our lives are indeed the sum total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are. But with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be." The Outer Limits S04E04

"If knowledge is power and power corrupts... how will human kind ever survive?" The Outer Limits S04E16
Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 02:14:30 am by Jarek Bachanek
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#22  May 20, 2015, 03:06:54 am
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico
yah, we get people complaining about a viking show not having enough black people, so this kind of thing does not surprise me.

Quote
Don't get me wrong but this is happens when every single human being is able to express his opinion in freely to everyone. I'm all for freedom of speech but when I see what bullshit people write in Internet I wonder if having that kind of freedom is good thing, because it's clearly being abused by moronic individuals.

it's a good thing, it does not mean we have to give them anymore relevance than hey deserve, it's like a mugen feedback guy complaining about infinite priority on an clsn-accurate char.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#23  May 20, 2015, 03:51:57 am
  • ******
  • Take better care of the plants around u or become
  • the fertilizer that feeds them.The choice is yours
    • Chile
    • network.mugenguild.com/basara/
The Mary Sue website and feminazis with ragebutt with GOT's last chapter... hmmm, that sounds interesting to comment...
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Rest in peace, Toriyama-san...
Normal WIPS - ClayFighter - Ideas - Anti-Gouki Project - Lifebars - Facebook - X
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#24  May 20, 2015, 03:55:27 am
  • avatar
  • ******
    • USA
Don't worry, only the people from their own country pay attention to them because everyone's super happy and without problems. We read about this in South America and laugh, we just can't take it seriously. We have much more important shit to give attention to than some crybaby complaining about fiction.

Then we remember that we earn like... $200 a month and cry  :lipsrsealed2:
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#25  May 20, 2015, 04:44:25 am
  • ******
  • 90's Kawaii
  • :thinking:
    • Guatemala
^The joys of living in a third world country!

The pc bug hasn't bitten anyone 'round here, and I honestly can't imagine how that'd be. Like, I can't recall the last time I spent a whole week without hearing a homophobic slur.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#26  May 20, 2015, 05:23:01 am
  • ****
  • The Barbarian
  • Most ****able 2013
    • USA
    • Skype - chronostrifeff7h@hotmail.com
The Mary Sue! It's a great way for the site to create a quick spike in controversy clicks for themselves and pushing away some of their more rational readers and replace them with nothing. Looking at Jill's Twitter, in regards to the article, the intent is clear. She just wanted the attention and the clicks for her site. Hope it was worth it and hope they lose visitors in the long term.

Will not be surprised to see this site kill itself slowly over the course of the next few years, especially if they keep pushing out this low-grade trash.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#27  May 20, 2015, 07:43:30 am
  • avatar
  • *****
  • I'm already Tracer
    • Canada
I think a lot of you have fully under appreciated what the site is saying and the other criticism that's coming to the show about this and some of the other choices made by the writers.

What's most interesting is that while, yes a lot of criticism out there from individuals is about the rape scene specifically, Mary Sue's critique is far more subtle and based not only on the pointless rape scene(s) that was thrown in for no reason, but also from the sense of the narrative, good storytelling as well as a comparison the source material, something every comment has ignored. You all also ignore that they critiqued the last rape scene, that changed a consensual sex scene from the books to a rape scene, but continued to support the show at the time.

Here's two great quotes that show a bit of what I'm talking about from the article:
Quote
Using rape as the impetus for character motivations is one of the most problematic tropes in fiction. Rarely is it ever afforded the careful consideration it deserves. Was there more gravity given to the act on Game of Thrones than in the past on the series? I would say yes; however, it took Sansa from her growing place of power, cut her off at the knees, and put the focus on Theon’s ordeal, instead.
...
There’s only so many times you can be disgusted with something you love before you literally can’t bring yourself to look at it anymore. That is where I currently find myself in relation to Game of Thrones. The staff of The Mary Sue feels the same. You may feel differently.

Why do people so badly want their to be some sort of global rape culture in the west?

Because there is rape culture in the West

And these retards forget one thing. While show is set in fantasy genre and in fictional world, Martin (author of the book series) portraits middle age society quite accurately.


Both the rape scenes in the show that have been critiqued the most(and there might be more I haven't followed the discussions too much) didn't actually occur in the books, which is why there's so much more criticism on the episodes not only from feminists but also general fans who might not have a problem with rape being in the show in and of itself but have a problem with it being used the way its being used.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#28  May 20, 2015, 08:50:18 am
  • ******
  • Double-Crosser
  • I'm not standing out. This isn't weird at all.
    • USA
The Mary Sue website and feminazis with ragebutt with GOT's last chapter... hmmm, that sounds interesting to comment...
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
I love how the spoiler is a subtle jab at the capital of people getting butthurt over stupid shit, aka tumblr
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#29  May 20, 2015, 10:17:56 am
  • avatar
  • ******
What the article really did is take a common occurence and find every possible reason to attack it just because they really didn't want to see that kind of event. The excuse of "it brings nothing to the character" is not receivable because why the hell does it HAVE to bring something to this or that character to happen. The point is, shit just happens, it won't not happen just because you don't like it. It's not something that cannot and must not be seen as soon as it is determined that it is "bad motivation" or that it "takes away from one character to put the focus on another". All the "good points" you quote in the article are determined after the decision that it is bad and shouldn't exist, but they do not actually justify by themselves reaching this decision.
It's not a rape culture, it's just a shitty thing that does happen, and it's certainly not excusing it. Rape culture means finding excuses and reasons why rape happens, justifying it or making it seem a normal occurence or an obvious consequence - this isn't making it seem normal, it's showing that it's shit but that it does happen. Even if there is some rape culture in some places and spheres (BTW fuck you if you say that there is a rape culture in the West as a whole, not the entire West has it and that's just insulting for those who don't have it), it doesn't mean that you have to tie things like this to it and try to put the blame on it because of that.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 10:24:33 am by DKDC
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#30  May 20, 2015, 10:21:27 am
  • ******
  • all is love in fair and war
Game of Thrones can be censored, can be shitcanned, I don't care anymore
I'm watching Penny Dreadful
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#31  May 20, 2015, 11:39:52 am
  • ******
  • 日本は素晴らしい国です。
When I see stuff like. I don't get mad anymore. I just silently scream in my head. Why do people so badly want their to be some sort of global rape culture in the west? I'm just so sick and tired of people finding stuff about which to be offended.

Narcissism.

Its not like they actually support any of those things they say they support to make them feel good, this is like the negative side of social media.
The same people lthat claim to be feminists and that someone should do something about the problematic things that offend them are the ones that 20 years ago would claim to be christians and tell each other how someone should do something about the blacks and the gays. They are just tagging along with what they perceive as being the faction that gives more cookie points, the one they will be recognized as being good persons over.

So they become whiny babies every time media is produced that does not cater specifically to their political whinybaby needs and gloat and dance around the media that does. Isolating each other further and further until the only difference of opinion they can stand is how much those outside of their group are trash and how bad they should be injured or threatened.  Its a human thing to try to create groups that they declare to be superior to others while shutting off differing views, social media just allows them to band together more obviously. ( this kind of shit always creates the need of the cult followers to try to prove themselvces better at what they follow than their peers, by attacking each other whenever possible, remember the gangsta mugen faction with their attempts at publical humiliations every now and then? )



As far as the show goes, the character married a villain older guy that is an awful person, and it had been an increasing narrative line to show her that she would need to become a woman and start manipulating men herself. She chose to be in that position even if she didnt wanted to, because she wants her revenge. Actually losing her virginity over a scene like this strenghtens the character, who in a string of personal losses is reforging herself to take back her family name. As the show is advancing they are changing it from the books to add more subtletly to the characters that exist instead of introducing new characters all the time ( the character raped in the book is a child that was introduced )
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#32  May 20, 2015, 12:35:33 pm
  • *****
  • Hungry Wolf
  • Aspiring Sprite Animator
    • South Africa
so this weeks SJW buzzwords are "sexual violence"
oh boy, can't wait to see what next week will be
Somebody should do a Peewee Herman parody of this.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#33  May 20, 2015, 02:08:34 pm
  • ****
    • Poland
"If our lives are indeed the sum total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are. But with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be." The Outer Limits S04E04

"If knowledge is power and power corrupts... how will human kind ever survive?" The Outer Limits S04E16
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#34  May 20, 2015, 03:41:33 pm
  • ******
  • all is love in fair and war
brofist.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#35  May 20, 2015, 05:05:53 pm
  • ******
  • Does this look like the face of mercy?
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#36  May 20, 2015, 05:32:32 pm
  • ****
  • The Goddess Returns
so this weeks SJW buzzwords are "sexual violence"
oh boy, can't wait to see what next week will be
Somebody should do a Peewee Herman parody of this.

You mean FEMALE sexual violence because MALE sexual violence? They can't sexually harm each other, they have control of the patriarchy and secretly love that shit.(yeah I'm waiting for some dumbass to say that and actually see people agree with it...)

What the article really did is take a common occurence and find every possible reason to attack it just because they really didn't want to see that kind of event. The excuse of "it brings nothing to the character" is not receivable because why the hell does it HAVE to bring something to this or that character to happen. The point is, shit just happens, it won't not happen just because you don't like it. It's not something that cannot and must not be seen as soon as it is determined that it is "bad motivation" or that it "takes away from one character to put the focus on another". All the "good points" you quote in the article are determined after the decision that it is bad and shouldn't exist, but they do not actually justify by themselves reaching this decision.
It's not a rape culture, it's just a shitty thing that does happen, and it's certainly not excusing it. Rape culture means finding excuses and reasons why rape happens, justifying it or making it seem a normal occurence or an obvious consequence - this isn't making it seem normal, it's showing that it's shit but that it does happen. Even if there is some rape culture in some places and spheres (BTW fuck you if you say that there is a rape culture in the West as a whole, not the entire West has it and that's just insulting for those who don't have it), it doesn't mean that you have to tie things like this to it and try to put the blame on it because of that.

Everything with DKDC stated I agree with. I'm going to be completely honest: I hate murder for the sake of it in fiction, especially if a character dies for a dumb cause(A sacrifice they know will solve nothing, basically being tossed in the fridge, villain needs to be taken seriously so let's just slaughter the mentor/kid character for brownie points). But at the same time, I know WHY it's done and I accept it the way it is and sometimes, even those moments I hate can lead into moments where it truly shapes everyone into better characters...

But then, why does rape need to be justified? Seriously, by people's guesses, rape is the ONLY crime that MUST be justified and has to mean something for it ever to be used...which is just bullshit. Yes, Rape is a real thing and people can be triggered by it and get awful memories but you know what else can trigger people? Everything if it's the right level of things that can bring up terrible memories(even an innocuous catch-phrase can trigger someone if it's tied to a specific bad moment), but lets get onto the real meat: Seeing powerful war scenes and seeing a brutal murder can be just as triggering to those who seen the carnage just like someone being raped can make them relive those moments...but I NEVER see someone ever talk about those triggers, only the ones for Rape because apparently, as long as the person is alive Rape is just that much worse than Murder(It's really sad that people really believe that...atleast the person has a chance to go back to normal life after a rape, Murder...you will NEVER come back).

Done with my rant but again, I agree with what DKDC stated and I didn't want to repeat him.
http://www.youtube.com/user/busterbladex?feature=mhum

Finally got some vids on here.
Subscribe to me please and who knows, maybe my video walkthroughs will help you one day.......
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#37  May 20, 2015, 06:05:41 pm
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico
but in rape you are left alive and you are a victim all the time while in murder you rest in piece and therefore there are not victims.

[EDIT]oh yeah, and let's not prosecute rape against men because it makes rape against women harder to prosecute.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#38  May 20, 2015, 08:43:08 pm
  • avatar
  • *****
  • I'm already Tracer
    • Canada
Why don't you all use your manly voices and talk about the issues that are important to you instead of vomiting all over those "feminazi sissies" that are so busy only fighting against rape and not doing all the undefined amazing things they should be doing?


There's a full article that I unfortunately didn't quote, I only picked two quotes to show the article was talking about a lot of things no one was addressing, and that their analysis(which btw, I disagree with, I thought the show did an okay job handling the rape scene and that it did build character for Sansa, and grew her arc)

Rape culture is in the West, but that was an unrelated point to Game of Thrones. . It's okay to admit that Rape Culture exists and is in the West, it doesn't degrade any area to say that it is an issue, though I was talking more about North America than Europe, sorry for not being completely clear. I've studied primarily about North America on the topic and not Europe on the issue. 

I also generally disagree that people only talk about Rape as a triggering experience or generally just talk about Rape. Obviously people who are are connected to those issues are going to focus on working on that issue. There are tons of organizations out there condemning racism, murder, theft, and other crimes as well that also get press and do good work.
-


So they become whiny babies every time media is produced that does not cater specifically to their political whinybaby needs and gloat and dance around the media that does. Isolating each other further and further until the only difference of opinion they can stand is how much those outside of their group are trash and how bad they should be injured or threatened.

Yeah I think you're wrong on that one mate, most people who are pushing their issues are doing it effectively and getting shit done. In Canada the people you would call "whiny babies" were able to get the government to push for a provincial strategy on sexual assault, rather than isolate, these people are (mostly) reaching out and engaging people in as many ways as possible.

But none of them get any press, no people focus on the ones they can ostracize because it's easier.

Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#39  May 20, 2015, 08:55:28 pm
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico
Why don't you all use your manly voices and talk about the issues that are important to you instead of vomiting all over those "feminazi sissies" that are so busy only fighting against rape and not doing all the undefined amazing things they should be doing?

we are stopping teh whinny ones to further harm people not in their cause, thanks.

let's say the govt. offers help to poor people, and the feminists activist start crying and whinning so said government help is only given to poor people of the female gender and all help taht was given to poor people of the male gender is not being given anymore (or the example I said earlier about the police not prosecuting rape agains males because it somehow makes rape against females harder to prosecute).
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#40  May 20, 2015, 09:13:54 pm
  • ******
  • 日本は素晴らしい国です。



So they become whiny babies every time media is produced that does not cater specifically to their political whinybaby needs and gloat and dance around the media that does. Isolating each other further and further until the only difference of opinion they can stand is how much those outside of their group are trash and how bad they should be injured or threatened.

Yeah I think you're wrong on that one mate, most people who are pushing their issues are doing it effectively and getting shit done. In Canada the people you would call "whiny babies" were able to get the government to push for a provincial strategy on sexual assault, rather than isolate, these people are (mostly) reaching out and engaging people in as many ways as possible.

But none of them get any press, no people focus on the ones they can ostracize because it's easier.
Its cute you would try to conflate people crying online about this bullshit with actual activists, as if anyone that ever took part in one of those were actually fighting for anything.
they arent.
this is the social equivalent of sharing kony 2012 on twitter, its rich first worlders with no actual issues trying to play at activism and spitting in the face of people with actual problems.
So, no, the people I am calling whiny babies are whiny babies that shit on their diapers for attention.  Not people actually enacting social change. I am more of an activist than any of these whiny babies and they disgust me.

These are the same type of people that think that things like the charlie hebdo massacre was justified bcause "white man punching down" and as thus have nothing to contribute to humanity as a whole.

You trying to compare people like Emma Watson and Amanda Palmer as being in the same position as tumblr teenagers crying trigger warning IS part of the problem.