The Mugen Fighters Guild

Art & Entertainment => Fighting Games => Topic started by: "Bad News" Hoffmann on August 24, 2011, 04:44:09 pm

Title: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: "Bad News" Hoffmann on August 24, 2011, 04:44:09 pm
Hello,

the discussion about Akuma in the SFxT thread brang me to this topic which i would like to discuss or see our own opinions.

Like the Headline says, which characters are overused in your opinion..or could use a re-design to make them interesting again?

There are characters which have been in 20 games and exsists even since 20 years...lets name Chun Li, Sub Zero or Morrigan as some examples of characters which are just damn alright and fun to use + interesting from their design and background story

Some will disagree with me when it comes to Morrigan though i guess.


But there are also characters which could really use some sort of a redesign ..they became boring and people hope they wont be in new games.

As mentioned the sf x tekken Akuma discussion made me writing this, why?

I saw negative reactions about Akuma being in Marvel Vs Capcom 3, negative reactions about Oni Akuma in SF IV AE, and now negative opinions about the possibility of Akuma being in SFx Tekken

I myself share that opinion... Akuma was once a bad-ass character. Evil, strong, hidden in SSFII Turbo and SFA and even in X-Men COTA  and fun to play when he was new.

Later he got the Cyber Akuma treatment in SF Vs MSHH which was quite fun as well

But than he became a normal character, still with a shin version sometimes...but to me he lost his appeal with the time..he became boring..like John Cena boring.

I myself would love to see him as a bad-ass character again, maybe with new moves and a change in his storyline which repeats itself as often as the story from the Mortal kombat characters Kano and Baraka.. since nearly 20 years those guys are stupid henchmen of the different game bosses..no matter how often they learned that the evil mad guys who want to conquer everything are failing..they always follow them again and again..i would really like a big redesign for both of them or see them finally dying ..or better eaten by something like Mileena since the dying people always get revived somehow in the Mk series.


What are your opinions bout this topic and what are characters you would like to see a change for?

greets, gbk
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: rednavi -RETIRED on August 24, 2011, 04:48:50 pm
Ryu.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: aznperson569M on August 24, 2011, 04:52:01 pm
Ken.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 04:52:48 pm
Negative reactions to Akuma in the game?  Uuuuh what?  Then why is he one of the most popular characters to use?  And he DID get a redesign as Oni.  People just get mad when popular characters (shotos) get in over obscure jobbers that they only like cause they are unpopular.

Anyway I would have to say I think K's current look has been really stale for a while.  Yeah yeah he got the sunglasses, but I think he needs a new outfit or redesign to keep himself fresh.  Kyo and Iori both got redesigns when their older looks got stale, why shouldn't K'?  It doesn't have to be necessarily big and radical, just something to shake things up a little bit.  For that matter his teammates could use one too. 
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: aznperson569M on August 24, 2011, 05:01:05 pm
Akuma got re-design of sorts in MvC3. The fact that he's extremely different from MvC2 is the reason why people like him; Powerful, but low health (As always). There's a reason why he's pretty high on the tier lists for SFIV and MvC3.

But than he became a normal character, still with a shin version sometimes...but to me he lost his appeal with the time

I guess Seth, Geese, Rugal and other boss characters are boring, too?


On topic, I guess Mitsurugi from Soul Calibur needs a good change in storyline. I hope that's what they are gonna do with him in SC5, since Mitsurugi is just your typical samurai looking for a good fight.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 05:06:59 pm
Indeed, MVC3 Akuma is radically different to almost being a totally new character.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Toshio Tenma on August 24, 2011, 05:11:19 pm
I don't quite hate Akuma, if he is or not in SFvsT, then it don't matter.
He changed a lot, just look back at his SSF2 X and compare with his latest artwork. Although he is still a shotoclone...
Anyway, I don't give a damn about Evil Ryu, he is too boring... Pretty much a shotocle of a shotoclone. A old character acting almost like a most recent one don't appeal to me.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Mechy on August 24, 2011, 05:12:05 pm
I have none for fighting games


bah
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 05:20:15 pm
Evil Ryu is just useless.  There is literally no reason to use him above normal Ryu unless you love that axe kick THAT much.  Normal Ryu has better health, better stun, better combos, better ultras, all around better.  Evil Ryu is too big of a gamble with too little a payoff.  He's a novelty at best. 
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Luis Alejandro on August 24, 2011, 05:58:37 pm
What the fuck are you talking about.

E.ryu has better combos, he's safer to play with, does a hell of more damage then normal ryu. He's a gamble to play with only because of his low stamina

They basically have the same ultras.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally
Post by: Nero D. on August 24, 2011, 06:02:20 pm
also im pretty sure toshio was talkin about pre ssfiv eryu who was just suntanned ryu with a teleport and sgs

ssfiv ryu is the most unique and different ryu to date
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 06:07:57 pm
What the fuck are you talking about.

E.ryu has better combos, he's safer to play with, does a hell of more damage then normal ryu. He's a gamble to play with only because of his low stamina

They basically have the same ultras.

Evil Ryu's combos may do more damage, but Ryu's are ultimately better cause they aren't fucking one frame links and are actually practical.  Ryu has better FADC combos as well.  It's almost universally agreed that Evil Ryu is the worst shoto in the game.

Think of it like this.  Why would you bother gambling for a few extra options when you can play it safe with normal Ryu and have less chance of getting murdered?
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Luis Alejandro on August 24, 2011, 06:12:37 pm
Better fadc combos? Compare a evil ryu combo video to a normal ryu combo video then come back.   

Think of it like this, why would you play with a character that is very limited when you could just go with one that's better but takes more effort to play with.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 06:23:08 pm
That would be a valid question IF there was enough difference between the two for it to warrant the choice.  If you compared, say, Ryu to Akuma.  Akuma is MUCH harder to use but is ultimately capable of more.  What Evil Ryu is capable of is only slightly more than normal Ryu, so it strikes me as a foolish gamble.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Toshio Tenma on August 24, 2011, 06:25:55 pm
I just believe that Evil Ryu should be not created at all, he is pretty much a Akuma wannabe with that idea of killing worthy foes. And Ryu is a pretty old shoto character to have a wannabe mode.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 06:50:04 pm
Evil Ryu debuted in SFA2, so Evil Ryu himself is pretty old.

I just think that as long as he's gonna be useless Evil Ryu is a waste of time.  Here's a couple of things I'd suggest.

-Make Axe Kick an overhead on the normal version as well, make the EX version have guard break or invul or something
-Give him some of Ryu/Akuma's links from SF3:TS, I mean he has the c.MK from that game so why not
-Make some of his moves safer to enhance his rushdown
-Give him Akuma's medium Shoryuken
-Allow the full animation off a FADC->Messatsu Gou Shoryu
-MAYBE a slight health buff, nothing the average player would notice

Who knows what 2012 update for AE will bring for him?
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: "Bad News" Hoffmann on August 24, 2011, 06:50:14 pm
So do you believe Evil Ryu is over-used and shouldnt return in future Street Fighter / Cross over games?


Another character who should retire in my opinion is dan...he was funny for a good time, but capcom could replace him with a new joke character

Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 06:51:28 pm
I think the problem with Dan is just that the joke has gotten a bit stale.  I think he needs to be refreshed.  SNK has so much more material for Capcom to make fun of with him.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Titiln on August 24, 2011, 06:55:20 pm
dan became irrelevant when snk died and should be retired completely or replaced with a mortal kombat parody
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 06:56:56 pm
Either that or a parody of hi def anime fighters like Guilty Gear/Blazblue/Arcana Heart/Ougon/Aquapazza/whatever else. 
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: "Bad News" Hoffmann on August 24, 2011, 07:01:35 pm
yeah, exactly what i meant ..but since snk isnt as popular as back in the ninetys and the KOF/Fatal Fury /AOF  characters arent as known as the big competition today by namco and  warner bros

a ninja wannabe mockup of scorpion/sub zero could work, or a jin/kazuya looking joke character who can morph into some sort of devil form but would have ultra short or slow attacks in that form.

"Either that or a parody of hi def anime fighters like Guilty Gear/Blazblue/Arcana Heart/Ougon/Aquapazza/whatever else.  "

Meh..not one of those serious is half as popular as MK, Tekken or Soul calibur ..they not in the same league as SNK in the ninetys or capcom, warner bros and namco games today
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally
Post by: Nero D. on August 24, 2011, 07:03:44 pm
@toshio that characterization is very wrong


akuma is what ryu could become if he gave in to the full satsui no hadou (their fighting style's forbidden technique of sorts)

evil ryu is what ryu would become if the satsui no hadou took over without his consent

sean has the potential to be overtaken by the snh to because he has the strong desire to win and get better, but since he trained under ken (who is moreso nonchalant about winning than ryu and because he is not gouken) he's in no danger

also yes dan is an old meme and...yeah
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 07:04:08 pm
A Tekken parody would be great, especially after SF X Tekken.  He could have insane juggle combos that ultimately do horrible damage, a weak parody of the Electric Wind God Fist, a puny eye laser with absurd startup time, and a too-fast-to-be-useful sidestep to mimic 3d gameplay.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: "Bad News" Hoffmann on August 24, 2011, 07:12:17 pm
Nice Ideas..if i would have the time + experience i would create something like that for mugen using fei long as a base ...with a different stance of course, maybe a small scar and "mishima" karate based attacks

i would name him ... John
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 07:14:27 pm
I'd name him Karada Kazuma.  For obvious reasons :P
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Lost_Avenger on August 24, 2011, 07:40:04 pm
Id rather have them drop the joke character thing in general.

As far as bitching on Ryu and Ken, its just that, bitching. Its 90% "Why is (shoto) in over (my favorite character)!? Fuck you, Capcom! See if you get my money ever again!" And then they buy it anyway. Complaining about an iconic character making it into a game over a lesser known or character of lesser importance is stupid imo.

I can understand it in some cases, but still. A fighting game will never be perfect. MVC3 had one of the most diverse rosters imo and it included a lot of obscure characters no one cares about. And it gets bashed for... not including the iconic characters. So yeah.

That being said, I think K and some others could use new looks, but I dont want major gameplay changes. When I pick up a Ken, K, Ibuki, etc, I want them to feel like they did before with a couple of tweaks added hear and there(they dont have to be). When you start changing everyone because they are "stale" then you kill the experience for some of the people that prefer "stale".

Just imo
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Titiln on August 24, 2011, 07:43:42 pm
MVC3 had one of the most diverse rosters imo and it included a lot of obscure characters no one cares about.
"a lot" is a huge stretch
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 07:48:39 pm
Hsien Ko and Shuma Gorath are the only obscure characters on normal MVC3's roster.  Would say Taskmaster but he's a cult favorite.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Lost_Avenger on August 24, 2011, 07:56:11 pm
well... a little bit lol. Arthur, the raccoon, and some of the new ones being added. People probably liked them more once they were added and probably didnt care about them beforehand. Like Spencer maybe? I dunno.

Edit: well... maybe not. Sorry for being confusing
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 08:03:21 pm
Ghosts N Goblins and Bionic Commando are anything but obscure.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Orochi Gill on August 24, 2011, 08:07:43 pm
I'm guessing he meant more along the lines of Dormammu and Rocket Raccoon.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 08:12:48 pm
Dormammu isn't any more obscure than Dr. Strange is seeing as how he's his arch nemesis.

The way I see it there are four levels of "obscurity" in the MVC3 roster.

Well known to everyone: People like Ryu, Spiderman, Dante, Akuma, Hulk, Cap, Deadpool, Arthur
Well known to Marvel/Capcom fans: People like Dormammu, Haggar, Modok, Iron Fist, Viewtiful Joe
Somewhat obscure: Taskmaster (he's a cult favorite, but not really a big name), Shuma Gorath, Dreadlocks Spencer (though not Spencer in general), MAYBE Strider since not a lot of people have played the original game he came from.
Very obscure: Rocket Raccoon
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Cobra Caddie on August 24, 2011, 08:14:31 pm
I would be happy with every fighting game character in every japanese fighting game getting a new outfit and/or updated look. I'm sick of seeing the same characters with the same designs for 20-25 years.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Lost_Avenger on August 24, 2011, 08:15:37 pm
So just obscure to me then. The only thing I knew about Arthur going into MVC3 was that he was an assist in MVC lol. So my bad.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: MellyInChains on August 24, 2011, 08:43:59 pm
i've always said it'd be great if ryu became an old man who now has fucked-up legs so now he has to fight with a cane

oh yeah and he'd have to lose some of his eyesight too

am i implying that the icon of street fighter should be replaced by a kanji kokuin clone? maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe

in fact the whole dan thing reminds me of how power instinct strangely is missing parodies of newer fighters and all that shizz, most relevant one is takumi hattori which is pretty much mini doctrine dark
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 08:45:02 pm
I would be happy with every fighting game character in every japanese fighting game getting a new outfit and/or updated look. I'm sick of seeing the same characters with the same designs for 20-25 years.

Are American characters like the ones in MK and KI exempt from this?
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: MellyInChains on August 24, 2011, 08:46:00 pm
apparently not, mortal kombat likes doing radical redesigns like a mofucker
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Cazaki on August 24, 2011, 08:53:45 pm
Well I don't like the smell of this negative Dan talk.  >:(

To answer the topic, I'd say Cammy. She's so...average and boring. Sure she had a storyline in SFA, but she use some spark and some personality, and/or some new moves. Cammy just isn't a likable character to me or any of my people in my circles.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally
Post by: Nero D. on August 24, 2011, 08:55:03 pm
mk3 pretty much eliminated that eastern mysticism the first 2 had so the games afterward trying to mix it was icky

reMaKe (cwutidid) did a good job of mixing the two mostly cause of kano...fuckin love kano
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: "Bad News" Hoffmann on August 24, 2011, 08:55:15 pm
I would be happy with every fighting game character in every japanese fighting game getting a new outfit and/or updated look. I'm sick of seeing the same characters with the same designs for 20-25 years.

thats why you have dlc costumes so you have different designs ;-)

Beside that..at least in Tekken and Soul Calibur games the designs and roles change from time to time for some of the characters

Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: MellyInChains on August 24, 2011, 08:56:16 pm
honestly i can see both sides of the dan situation, i kinda like him as a character for actually having a personality and a sorta unique moveset but the snk parody is at this point kinda stale

so y'know

also @ nero: mk3 kano was boss, but then again i believe kabal is the legit best design in the mk series ever
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: D'Evil on August 24, 2011, 08:56:40 pm
I can't personally think of any for fighting games. I have no problems with the shotos.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: "Bad News" Hoffmann on August 24, 2011, 09:00:58 pm
honestly i can see both sides of the dan situation, i kinda like him as a character for actually having a personality and a sorta unique moveset but the snk parody is at this point kinda stale

so y'know

also @ nero: mk3 kano was boss, but then again i believe kabal is the legit best design in the mk series ever

In my opinion the looks and movesets for Mk characters arent their problem..but the back storys became boring for some of the characters ..the overall game story and characters were different..but somehow Kano as example never evolved from being a stupid henchman for the evil guys..its the same with baraka

Both of them could have used a change, with baraka revolting against the dragon king as example

Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally
Post by: Nero D. on August 24, 2011, 09:06:32 pm
@mel i agree 100 kabal is the best design and my favorite design in mk
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Cobra Caddie on August 24, 2011, 09:15:15 pm
Are American characters like the ones in MK and KI exempt from this?

apparently not, mortal kombat likes doing radical redesigns like a mofucker

I was trying to exclude Mortal Kombat because the characters get slightly new looks every game. But GBK is right, Tekken and Soul Calibur do that too mostly. I guess I meant Street Fighter and Kof specifically. :-X
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: "Bad News" Hoffmann on August 24, 2011, 09:26:23 pm
Well, at least some of the characters went trough a change from KOF XI to KOF XII when snk made new sprites anyway, but in general you are right and i agree that especially Street Fighter characters could evolve and age a bit.

But who knows, if Street Fighter 4 would have played after Street Fighter 3 and the characters would all be a bit older and different, would it have be the same success as SF IV was?

I myself would like it to see a change for the SF series how it was done from Tekken 2 to Tekken 3 which played 15 years later and had partially older characters, partially a new generation of characters (hwoarang  for baek, forest law for marshall law, jin for kazuya/june) while only a few stayed as they were before (Nina, Kuma, Anna)

Grown up Ryu who could look similar to Takuma from AOF 2 could be great.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 24, 2011, 09:32:00 pm
When Bison was first announced for SF4, I was hoping he would look undead or somewhat demonic to indicate his resurrection.  Needless to say I was a little disappointed.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Cazaki on August 24, 2011, 10:00:01 pm
Bison has an excellent character design though.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Toshio Tenma on August 24, 2011, 10:22:14 pm
Bison has an excellent character design though.
He is also based in a obscure manga character with almost identical powers. And I don't meant just Broken Jr.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Cazaki on August 24, 2011, 10:28:47 pm
Well...uh... :-X

[size=2pt]Atleast Bison does the Red Rain of Pain better than he ever could.[/size]
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Toshio Tenma on August 24, 2011, 10:32:12 pm
(http://api.ning.com/files/8qtCJ-2iLq7MoH1PTYUaAeXIXaa0h0hDo9pwsjyBH-zXUuNlXwNtrHesBOhTS8f52MPbo7fZ2dCjtiBMPsogWnUeacS6Ogag/kato.gif)
(http://api.ning.com/files/-5GxBa-JpUzfR2u6Whxy**ajT6RB-bQNHF*WbhedxGsb77dMxeGLKPg*bYV6NoAGdEDlzF18gbGTDC3tke-ovSF7EYNm1LzG/kato2.jpg)
That character is Yasunori Kato by the way.
That character design was kinda overused, but Bison don't got boring. Bison's SF2 original portrait is based in that actor, by the way.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: C.v.s The Abstract on August 24, 2011, 10:40:05 pm
Def have no Problem with Shoto, Ryu the main Hero  in Sf,So him Being Overused is something no can ARGUE with, Without a Ryu,Ken,Akuma or even Sakura, It wouldnt feel the same sense they my child Hood Favorite, U can Take sean and Dan tho Lmao, But a New Design would be cool
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally
Post by: Nero D. on August 24, 2011, 10:47:05 pm
The original plan for sfiii was to have sean as the only shoto in the game

ryu ken and akuma were only brought back because the developers knew full well that the wambulance would have been overloaded with calls
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: TempesT on August 24, 2011, 11:18:51 pm
he's safer to play with. He's a gamble to play with

:wacko:
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: rednavi -RETIRED on August 24, 2011, 11:26:04 pm
weird, after 12+ years of people playing with Strider in MVC and MVC2 one would think he's no longer an obscure character  :S
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: "Bad News" Hoffmann on August 24, 2011, 11:30:04 pm
weird, after 12+ years of people playing with Strider in MVC and MVC2 one would think he's no longer an obscure character  :S

(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/211/0/8/084df689f96ae916cd1c6e8934238e33-d427jb9.jpg)
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Luis Alejandro on August 24, 2011, 11:30:25 pm

Read the prior post tempest
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: TempesT on August 24, 2011, 11:33:41 pm
Do you know what contradiction means?
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Luis Alejandro on August 24, 2011, 11:37:52 pm
You do realize I was repeating what he said

Next time ill put emphasis on gamble. Now stop avoiding me on psn I feel neglected
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Bastard Mami on August 24, 2011, 11:55:49 pm
should have used quotes in "safe"
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: MAO11 on August 25, 2011, 12:29:04 am
ryu,ken,gouki and sakura.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Luis Alejandro on August 25, 2011, 12:29:50 am
Sakura redesign would be awesome
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: MAO11 on August 25, 2011, 12:40:14 am

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Ryomakhunoto/Sakuragymschool.jpg)
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: "Bad News" Hoffmann on August 25, 2011, 12:51:58 am
i liked that sakura re-design (http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/098/f/7/regulator_sakura_by_negrosaki-d3djh2y.gif) by NegroSaki
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: walt on August 25, 2011, 01:36:18 am
already in SSF4 as an alternate

http://www.eventhubs.com/images/2010/mar/11/new-super-street-fighter-4-alternative-costumes-image-5/
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: hjk on August 25, 2011, 02:36:46 am
SAGAT - Kill him already! He SCREAMS generic.



Adon needs more moves.

Ryu and Ken - I loved them to death until a few months ago. My boredom with them is beyond redemption now. But I don't know exactly what I would change about them.

Gouki - The perfect character to add random new moves to. Dive kick and that spinny grab thing got really old now. Needs new hypers that truly separate him from Ken and Ryu.

Sakura and Dan - Dan needs to go. Sakura needs something that separates her from shotos more (hell I think mixing in some Makoto techniques and spicing her with a little Chun/Ibuki would interest me a little more - of course that's a horrible idea.

Sean - Not creative at all IMO.

Joke characters in general - Dull. Not that funny.

Kyo and Iori - Boring. WOnder why I find Remy interesting though.

Chun and Guile - Old.

Zangief/Haggar - God, are you serious? Barely anything changes about Zangief! He's been stuck doing teh same generic moves for-fucking-ever!!!


Terry Bogard is the King of Kings when it comes to likable creativity in my opinion. I love the new CvS2 Mugen edits of him especially. For some reason, I still value Ken and Ryu more than him though - hard to explain cause I don't even understand it.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Duos.act on August 25, 2011, 02:40:17 am
If you add anything else to Akuma you will break the hell out of him.  Sakura plays totally different from the other shotos.  Your reasons for not liking characters are silly as hell. 
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Blue Monkey on August 25, 2011, 02:41:19 am
in my opinion Ryu and Chun Li have been severly overused in plenty of Capcom games i know they are SF 1 & 2 icons but their constant reuse have left even Megaman the actual Mascot of Capcom out of MvC3, Story and design wise there are plenty of other characters who in my opinion deserve more character development in the sequels and other ports like Guile or even Sakura who have been in highschool for over a decade now.

Unlike Chun Li, Ryu havent aged a day since SF2, hasnt accomplished nothing in his way of the warrior way of life and that shows on his design itself. I would like that company to embrace the story of their characters and actually made their sequels matter, the lack of a story mode for individual characters even in compilation games is starting to show and when you are competing with the new MK thats something you must address.

If the normal or Evil Ryu would become a recurrent theme in next generation games at least i would like them to play in a totally different way from one another in the, Good Ryu should be closer to Gouken moves just as evil Ryu should resemble more of Akuma.

Other changes i would embrace would be to implement the change from Akuma to Oni to be permanent and canon, that way there would be a spot left for a Ryu variation to fill in that spot.

Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: hjk on August 25, 2011, 02:44:55 am
Sakura plays totally different from the other shotos.  Your reasons for not liking characters are silly as hell.
It's not how she PLAYS that I'm concerned with - her moves are still basically the same as Ryu's and Ken's. There's nothing that says, 'This move belongs to Sakura and to Sakura alone.' in her moveset. Wow, I can change a couple of vels and call my moves different... big wup.
Hell, I'd say that given Sakura's personality it would be plausible for her to make up more of her own moves.

If you add anything else to Akuma you will break the hell out of him.
Pulled that right out of your ass, didn't you? Heck you can scrap some of his moves if you like. He's boring and that's my opinion.



I just believe that Evil Ryu should be not created at all, he is pretty much a Akuma wannabe...
QFT. Couldn't agree more.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Agreed with everything besides your opinion on Oni, who strikes me as little more than a shoto. Gouken wasn't intersting either.
Oni could be canon if Capcom went in a direction like:
Oro defeats Shin Gouki by a smidgen. Gouki goes crazy and blahdi, blahdi, blah becomes Oni...
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Cazaki on August 25, 2011, 03:34:05 am
Unlike Chun Li, Ryu havent aged a day since SF2, hasnt accomplished nothing in his way of the warrior way of life and that shows on his design itself. I would like that company to embrace the story of their characters and actually made their sequels matter, the lack of a story mode for individual characters even in compilation games is starting to show and when you are competing with the new MK thats something you must address.

Now this I can agree with. If Ryu actually made some progression game to game that was atleast aesthetically noticable it would be a great way to kick some of the boredom out of him. Every game he's a wandering warrior staying away from dark influence, but it never actually shows him making progress.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: CF7 on August 25, 2011, 04:05:28 am
than he became a normal character
That, along with the Oni persona (unneeded clone), is the source of the problem. But really, he does not need a redesign.
So do you believe Evil Ryu is over-used and shouldnt return in future Street Fighter / Cross over games?
Well, there was no need for him to appear in SF4; he adds nothing to the story whatsoever (he even hurts it a little);
A Tekken parody would be great
SF already has that--Karin. Not by design, but by storyline. Her father's likeness and status is a spoof of Heihachi's.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Ryomakhunoto/Sakuragymschool.jpg)
That should have been her main, and her main, her alt. It would have helped her design, since she did age in storyline.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: rednavi -RETIRED on August 25, 2011, 04:12:40 am
Shundhi, did I ever tell you how much you such at gameplay and character design in general? Because if I didn't do that at the CVS3 thread now's my chance...
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: S.D. on August 25, 2011, 04:29:11 am
Shundhi, did I ever tell you how much you such at gameplay and character design in general?
Quoting for emphasis.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Do not even ask on August 25, 2011, 04:29:33 am
There's nothing that says, 'This move belongs to Sakura and to Sakura alone.' in her moveset.

Sakura Otoshi for starters, but hey expecting you to ever exhibit competence or the least bit of intelligence in your posts I guess is just too much.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: MDD on August 25, 2011, 04:38:26 am

Sean - Not creative at all IMO.
I wouldn't say not creative. I'd just say boring as fuck.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Bastard Mami on August 25, 2011, 05:07:54 am
Shundhi, did I ever tell you how much you suck at gameplay and character design in general? Because if I didn't do that at the CVS3 thread now's my chance...
fixed for truth.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Foobs on August 25, 2011, 05:16:37 am
Quote
Zangief/Haggar - God, are you serious? Barely anything changes about Zangief! He's been stuck doing teh same generic moves for-fucking-ever!!!

Generic? please tell me what is "generic" about banishing flat, lariats or the spining piledriver.

Quote
It's not how she PLAYS that I'm concerned with - her moves are still basically the same as Ryu's and Ken's. There's nothing that says, 'This move belongs to Sakura and to Sakura alone.' in her moveset.

Never mind the fact that her ultras are different, her spinning kick is different from the shotos hurricane kick and, she has different basics and an original special attack.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: C.v.s The Abstract on August 25, 2011, 05:19:03 am
LMAO!
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: NiO ErZeBeTh on August 25, 2011, 05:55:13 am
Indeed, MVC3 Akuma is radically different to almost being a totally new character.

to be honest... what's the BIG difference?

I have never been an Akuma player, and with just a few minutes you already know how to use it, even his commands before you use him...

let's imagine he appears in SFvT... I bet a 80% of people here knows how his commands and kind of play will be...

so yeah... Akuma is cool, but it's starting to be boring... give me Ken instead, he could be a clone too, but with more posibilities to make him more unique IMO
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: hjk on August 25, 2011, 06:00:33 am
Quote
Zangief/Haggar - God, are you serious? Barely anything changes about Zangief! He's been stuck doing teh same generic moves for-fucking-ever!!!
Generic? please tell me what is "generic" about banishing flat, lariats or the spining piledriver.
Same moves, forever. I want a little bit of variation... please Capcom.

Quote
It's not how she PLAYS that I'm concerned with - her moves are still basically the same as Ryu's and Ken's. There's nothing that says, 'This move belongs to Sakura and to Sakura alone.' in her moveset.
Never mind the fact that her ultras are different, her spinning kick is different from the shotos hurricane kick and, she has different basics and an original special attack.
I'll call her ultra 1 different, her tatsumaki is a vel change, not necessarily her own move. And Still bored me because I think she could've had more.

Sakura Otoshi for starters...
YES! That was a great addition to her moveset, actually.

Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Orochi Gill on August 25, 2011, 06:04:23 am
I don't see Zangief using lead pipes, how are they the same
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Foobs on August 25, 2011, 06:07:29 am
That's not "generic". It would be "generic" if a grappler that pre-dated him used those moves, and then every other grappler in every fighting game used those same moves.

Seriously Shundhi, it's alright if you don't like something (or pretty much anything, in your case) but don't make shit up to justify it.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally
Post by: aznperson569M on August 25, 2011, 06:11:15 am
Shundhi probably thought that since the two share the piledriver and lariat they are obviously the same.

Shundhi has obviously not played mvc3.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: hjk on August 25, 2011, 06:14:36 am
That's not "generic". It would be "generic" if a grappler that pre-dated him used those moves, and then every other grappler in every fighting game used those same moves.
True. I should have used a better term.

Seriously Shundhi, it's alright if you don't like something (or pretty much anything, in your case) but don't make shit up to justify it.
Sure  :???:

I don't see Zangief using lead pipes, how are they the same
Not sure you understood my point.
Aside from Haggar, Zangief has been using the same 3 specials for over a decade. Lariat, Flat, Piledriver - I'm asking for more. It's my opinion on the character - I'm fine if everyone else is satisfied; I'm not.
Either way, Haggar is basically Zangief in MvC3. Wow, a pipe... separates him SOOOOoooooo much  ::)

Shundhi probably thought that since the two share the piledriver and lariat they are obviously the same. Shundhi has obviously not played mvc3.
You'd be right. I've been tired of videogames for 3 years now. I'm simply a viewer these days... frustrated by what I SEE mostly.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: rednavi -RETIRED on August 25, 2011, 06:16:50 am
Yeah... You really didn't even bother to check a Haggar MVC3 video did you? To be able to have an opinion about something you must first know what you're talking about, otherwise it's just...

Seriously Shundhi, it's alright if you don't like something (or pretty much anything, in your case) but don't make shit up to justify it.

Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Cybaster on August 25, 2011, 06:21:00 am
Zangief has 3 moves, and Guile has 2 only. Doesn't make him any less awesome. Number of moves doesn't make the character.

Also, this user's (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?action=profile) mom is overused.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Tyrant Belial on August 25, 2011, 06:22:43 am
Joke's gettin old bro. Unless you switch it to Donutman.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Luis Alejandro on August 25, 2011, 06:25:38 am
Zang has 4 btw
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: hjk on August 25, 2011, 06:27:05 am
What's the 4th?

I'm guessing headbutt or spreading his eagle?

^ that running slam thing isn't it...
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Luis Alejandro on August 25, 2011, 06:28:17 am
Give me my cookies
Spinning pile
Banshee
Lariat
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: S.D. on August 25, 2011, 06:38:08 am
Either way, Haggar is basically Zangief in MvC3. Wow, a pipe... separates him SOOOOoooooo much  ::)

You're either blind, you don't know anything about fighting games or you're a goddamn retard.
Haggar is nothing like "VS series Zangief with a pipe".'

Edit:
her tatsumaki is a vel change
Yep, definitely an idiot.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Tyrant Belial on August 25, 2011, 10:04:24 am
. . .I take it back, this guy renewed the joke.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: MDD on August 25, 2011, 10:08:51 am
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Also, there is a part deep down inside of me that wants Urien to get a new look just so I won't have to see him a thong anymore.

Also, make Sean not stupid and boring please. He's the only shotoclone I actually hate.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Deadface on August 25, 2011, 10:37:33 am
Except Sean is barely a shoto. When your FB is super-only, you got problems if you wanna fit in there.
Same shit with Gouken, actually.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: MDD on August 25, 2011, 11:15:51 am
I still don't like him. At all.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: K.O.D on August 25, 2011, 11:16:55 am
Sean is my main in sf3, he's pretty fun to use.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: DatKofGuy on August 25, 2011, 12:45:10 pm
gouki
This.

Seriously Shundhi, it's alright if you don't like something (or pretty much anything, in your case) but don't make shit up to justify it.

Like I keep saying, this guy should just be ignored... like that guy who didnt know Ryu.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Cyanide on August 27, 2011, 04:21:16 am
Ryu needs a redesign. His outfit is dull, and his specials NEVER FUCKING CHANGE AT ALL. Has he not learned a single new special in 20 years? You could at least give him the air hadoken (that way akuma could fuck off) but apparently he doesn't know how to do anything other than the same 3 moves he has always known.

Ken and Akuma have changed more. Also, i like Sean for the fact that he's still in the shoto garb, but has put his own spin on the moves and changed things up a bit. Give Ryu a tracksuit and an ipod or something.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: aznperson569M on August 27, 2011, 04:26:22 am
They gave Ryu the Donkey Kick (Joudan Sokoto Geri) in SF3, and this weird repeatable Tatsumaki in the EX series.

Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Suave 6-year old on August 27, 2011, 04:27:52 am
Also, this user's (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?action=profile) mom is overused.

Why this link lead me to my profile?  >:(
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Bastard Mami on August 27, 2011, 04:29:08 am
Because you touch yourself.

Ryu needs a redesign. His outfit is dull, and his specials NEVER FUCKING CHANGE AT ALL. Has he not learned a single new special in 20 years? You could at least give him the air hadoken (that way akuma could fuck off) but apparently he doesn't know how to do anything other than the same 3 moves he has always known.

Ken and Akuma have changed more. Also, i like Sean for the fact that he's still in the shoto garb, but has put his own spin on the moves and changed things up a bit. Give Ryu a tracksuit and an ipod or something.

akiman's curly hair ryu.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: LurkerSupreme on August 27, 2011, 04:38:18 am
That's  not the overused they're talking about.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Suave 6-year old on August 27, 2011, 04:54:01 am
Oh... Well sorry. I'll send it to the Recycle bin. heh heh, my bad.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally
Post by: MDD on August 27, 2011, 08:27:53 am
OH GOD ANOTHER ONE HAHAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 28, 2011, 06:58:00 am
Ryu needs a redesign. His outfit is dull, and his specials NEVER FUCKING CHANGE AT ALL. Has he not learned a single new special in 20 years? You could at least give him the air hadoken (that way akuma could fuck off) but apparently he doesn't know how to do anything other than the same 3 moves he has always known.

Ken and Akuma have changed more. Also, i like Sean for the fact that he's still in the shoto garb, but has put his own spin on the moves and changed things up a bit. Give Ryu a tracksuit and an ipod or something.

but he is like the pure version of the shoto, although track suit and i pod are too much for Ryu image imo, but he could use a little redesign, maybe more definition on his belt, maybe some small kanji characters written on either his gi or belt would already  fresh enough.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Lunchbillion on August 29, 2011, 04:26:04 am
Back in SF 1, Ryu had sandals while Ken was barefoot. And they had different coloured gloves.
What happened to that?
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Thedge on August 29, 2011, 05:36:35 am
Sf2 is the only game where their gloves share the same color, as far as sf games goes.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: rednavi -RETIRED on August 29, 2011, 05:38:08 am
MVC3 and TVC did an awesome job at making Ryu and Ken different one each other.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Thedge on August 29, 2011, 05:44:03 am
You missed CFJ/E, but yeah, the whole world did.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Bastard Mami on August 29, 2011, 05:50:23 am
ken is in mvc3 ?
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: rednavi -RETIRED on August 29, 2011, 05:55:30 am
You missed CFJ/E, but yeah, the whole world did.

He was in one of the stages, that's why I didn't want to include him in the list :V.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: NiO ErZeBeTh on August 30, 2011, 05:52:46 am
ken is in mvc3 ?

According to Rednavi... yes  ::)

also, fuck Ryu and Akuma, I want Ken, he could be a lot better than those, I see more posibilities to make Ken different than the other 2...

like I say before... if Akuma gets in SvsT we already know how he will play, we can't spect something REALLY different about it  --;
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: rednavi -RETIRED on August 30, 2011, 06:00:32 am
...I don't want to use the :whoosh: unexistant emoticon twice the same day...

Oh wait! It's 0:53 AM over here! Yep, it's Thursday already.

:whoosh:
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: S.D. on August 30, 2011, 06:16:21 am
it's Thursday already.
What the hell?
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: rednavi -RETIRED on August 30, 2011, 06:20:37 am
...wow I just fused 2 days... that's worse than Caturday >_<
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Jesuszilla on August 30, 2011, 08:08:57 am
this thread (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0), especially page 4 and onward.
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: Bastard Mami on August 30, 2011, 03:52:06 pm
ken is in mvc3 ?

According to Rednavi... yes  ::)

also, fuck Ryu and Akuma, I want Ken, he could be a lot better than those, I see more posibilities to make Ken different than the other 2...

like I say before... if Akuma gets in SvsT we already know how he will play, we can't spect something REALLY different about it  --;

ken's kick specials were interesting, does he has those in sf4 ?
Title: Re: Overused characters which could use a re-design or should be removed finally.
Post by: TempesT on August 30, 2011, 10:15:58 pm
They are different command normals.