The Mugen Fighters Guild - Show content

Re: The Importance of Hitboxes/Hurtboxes and Why They Matter

August 18, 2021, 09:20:44 pm View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in The Importance of Hitboxes/Hurtboxes and Why They Matter (Started by Bluekuma August 07, 2021, 01:10:02 pm
Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion

Well they're not necessarily egregious, but when put up against the standards that Karma lays out, they tend to break a few of the general rules

By kof 98 SNK started diversifying their hitboxes because the characters had unique animations but in a mainline series like Fatal Fury they used standardized hitbox patterns for idle, movement, move startup and recovery, and for active frames the same general strategy for how limbs are covered is used: the end of a limb, a hand or a foot, is given no hurtbox.

In general the quality of the move is not as important. In some games DP is given properties based on the fact that it is a DP, but in some SNK games the DP properties are not inherently equal, Hon Fu's DP is better than everyone else's because the standardized hurtboxes on startup frames give him an advantage due to how his hitboxes for the active frames comes out

This is easily one of my favorite examples of SNK bullshit because they nerfed this move from FF3 to RB2 and it was still a god move purely based on the fact that they didn't balance it through changing the hitboxes, but through animation timings and removing the hard invulnerability it had on FF3 and RB.

Rules according to frames, being plus or not, these are not determined in these games. A move comes out to be plus after the fact, it isn't planned (if it were, Kevin's normals wouldn't be broken), so the hitboxes cannot be planned around these situations.

Re: The Importance of Hitboxes/Hurtboxes and Why They Matter

August 14, 2021, 11:40:41 pm View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in The Importance of Hitboxes/Hurtboxes and Why They Matter (Started by Bluekuma August 07, 2021, 01:10:02 pm
Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion

Just use common sense, every rule you can think of SNK probably broke

Re: (Extra Bout) Fatal Fury

August 07, 2021, 10:45:20 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in (Extra Bout) Fatal Fury (Started by Bannana April 30, 2021, 01:36:50 am
Board: Projects

updated first post for posterity so I can just link to it, working on Kevin now and doing some lifebar/screenpack stuff.

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

August 02, 2021, 11:25:48 pm View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Gato- [Public beta] (Started by Bannana May 05, 2021, 08:49:12 am
Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

A lot of system stuff to prep for other characters, not much in the way of Gato specifics at this point. This will probably be a perpetual beta to serve as a sandbox. Check first post for info about new mechanics. Enjoy.

Spoiler: 8/2/21 (click to see content)

Re: Best way to handle AI for ABK-style projectile parry

June 14, 2021, 01:54:18 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Best way to handle AI for ABK-style projectile parry (Started by Dawn de Era June 07, 2021, 06:56:23 pm
Board: M.U.G.E.N Development Help

Ah no it's fine, I wish I had more experience with that sort of parry to help you out here.

Re: Best way to handle AI for ABK-style projectile parry

June 13, 2021, 07:35:52 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Best way to handle AI for ABK-style projectile parry (Started by Dawn de Era June 07, 2021, 06:56:23 pm
Board: M.U.G.E.N Development Help

ah no you're right, but there is something else that may of better help.

You're using a parry state, right? Maybe you could use something close to Kn's Just Defend counter. He uses a background var to count the time you press back to confirm a successful JD frame. So if you press back within 6F like in MOTW, then the counter var will confirm it and allow for the guard state to register it as a JD instead of a normal guard.

In MOTW you can mash after a successful JD to JD things like Kain's Ball, and Kn's code can do that pretty well. It's not as exact as how the game works, but how it's implemented could be useful for your multi parry situation

His variables

Code:

; var(7) = ジャストディフェンス受付時間	/ just defense input counter
; var(8) = ジャストディフェンス不能時間	/ un-JD-able frame counter 
; var(9) = ジャストディフェンス成功	/ just defense success

His -2 code

Code:

[State -2, just defense]
type = varSet
trigger1 = command = "JDF"
trigger1 = (command != "release_back") && (command != "release_downback")
trigger2 = StateNo = 52
var(7) = 0

[State -2, just defense]
type = varAdd
trigger1 = 1
var(7) = 1
ignorehitpause = 1

[State -2, just defense]
type = varAdd
trigger1 = var(8) > 0
var(8) = -1
ignorehitpause = 1

[State -2, just defense]
type = varSet
trigger1 = stateNo != [120, 153]
var(9) = 0
ignorehitpause = 1

[State -2, just defense]
type = varSet
trigger1 = moveType = I
trigger1 = (stateNo = 50) || (stateNo = [154, 155])
trigger1 = stateType = A
trigger1 = var(3) = 0
trigger1 = var(8) = 0
trigger1 = var(7) <= 10
var(9) = 1
ignorehitpause = 1

[State -2, just defense]
type = varSet
trigger1 = var(9) = 0
trigger1 = (command = "release_back" || command = "release_downback") && command != "JDF"
var(8) = 4
ignorehitpause = 1

[State -2, no air guard]
type = assertSpecial
trigger1 = 1
flag = NoAirGuard
ignorehitpause = 1

[State -2, hitoverride]
type = hitOverRide
trigger1 = stateType = A
trigger1 = var(9) = 1
attr = SCA, AA, AP
slot = 0
stateNo = 154
time = 1

[State -2, hitoverride]
type = hitOverRide
trigger1 = stateno = [154, 155]
trigger1 = var(9) = 0
attr = SCA, AA, AP
slot = 0
stateNo = 5020
time = 1

The state code

Code:

[State 150, just defense]
type = varSet
trigger1 = time = 0
var(9) = ifelse(((var(7) <= 8) && (var(8) <= 0)), 1, 0)

Re: Mr-Popo Download

June 13, 2021, 07:01:57 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Mr-Popo Download (Started by Bardock Revenge June 12, 2021, 12:09:11 am
Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Just a thought from watching the video, it seems like his moves have too much pushback (or maybe they should move forward) so he can't combo the normal moves together.

I like the aesthetic of your CG by the way!

Re: Garou: Mark of the Wolves AutoHitdef

June 09, 2021, 11:26:48 pm View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Garou: Mark of the Wolves AutoHitdef (Started by Bannana March 08, 2021, 02:17:25 am
Board: Code Library

Correct, which is why I think this is best used for normals because they always have a proper startup time, and are usually built according to the same rules/data. Generally I would not use an autohitdef for anything specific, such as a special attack and would instead opt to make a unique hitdef.

Re: Best way to handle AI for ABK-style projectile parry

June 09, 2021, 11:19:31 pm View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Best way to handle AI for ABK-style projectile parry (Started by Dawn de Era June 07, 2021, 06:56:23 pm
Board: M.U.G.E.N Development Help

You have it attempting to parry on "movetype=A", yeah?

If so, this is part of why people are very adamant about having a "movetypeset=I" to return to idle in every attack state, not only because it's how the games work for proper guardstate timing, but because the AI is dumb and wants to read it as an attack even during the recovery frames.

Imo best way around it is to have a variable to confirm the parry window, like

Trigger1 = p2movetype = A
Trigger1 = enemy, time = 0

and reset it to 0 with

Trigger1 = p2movetype != A
Trigger1 = enemy, time = 0
Trigger2 = [parry state/parry confirm variable]

Re: POTS chars Custom Combos should absolutely use full meter, not 1 bar

June 09, 2021, 09:49:56 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in POTS chars Custom Combos should absolutely use full meter, not 1 bar (Started by extravagant June 04, 2021, 11:01:51 am
Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion

extravagant said, June 04, 2021, 11:01:51 am

CCvid-21 shot (or perhaps an anal swab test, whatever floats your boat)

lmao

It's a interesting point to make, A groove is equivalent to 2 stocks like V-ism, isn't it? Does being hit in CC end it like in Alpha 2? (I only played K groove so I have no idea). To have a 3 stock CC seems broken assuming the rate the bar drains is equivalent to a 2 bar A groove in CvS2 conversions (i.e. JZ and Waru).

Man you capcom/pots people have a harder time than the SNK people lol

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

June 09, 2021, 09:34:37 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Gato- [Public beta] (Started by Bannana May 05, 2021, 08:49:12 am
Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Spoiler: 6/9/21 (click to see content)

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

May 17, 2021, 12:40:01 pm View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Gato- [Public beta] (Started by Bannana May 05, 2021, 08:49:12 am
Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Some bug fixes here. Going to be working on Sokaku next, which will give me an idea of any major system flaws.

Spoiler: 5/17/21 (click to see content)

Re: All Fatal Fury Stages with proper transitions and music

May 12, 2021, 09:07:11 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in All Fatal Fury Stages with proper transitions and music (Started by Lasombra Demon May 11, 2021, 09:39:24 pm
Board: IKEMEN Releases

Even if it was just an edit, it's more than I would attempt!

I can't tell you how much I hated that Abuhachi's Yamazaki's FF3 stage had the final round version only, because it gave me a headache due to the envshake.

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

May 12, 2021, 05:41:32 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Gato- [Public beta] (Started by Bannana May 05, 2021, 08:49:12 am
Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

some updates, added in escalation mode chains, some cancel changes, fixed various bugs caused by gravity, and tweaked some code to fix the mirror match rai-ga issues.

Spoiler: 5/11/21 (click to see content)

chains are expected to be altered at some point, don't see these as final

Re: All Fatal Fury Stages with proper transitions and music

May 11, 2021, 10:34:39 pm View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in All Fatal Fury Stages with proper transitions and music (Started by Lasombra Demon May 11, 2021, 09:39:24 pm
Board: IKEMEN Releases

Excellent! This is something we've missed out on for years with mugen, thanks for putting in the effort to do this for all of them.

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

May 07, 2021, 11:28:31 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Gato- [Public beta] (Started by Bannana May 05, 2021, 08:49:12 am
Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

1. For sure normals have been a mixed bag, I'm still not sure about them myself. I keep going back and forth on chains like Real Bout, but I think if I double down on long pausetimes I should just bite the bullet and put them in.
2. hmm, this is a hitbox issue. I'm not sure what to say, my gravity caused the first issue, so removing it during the move just leaves the y velocities that were from the original, where it works. I'll look into this, but it it works in the corner lol!

3. It wasn't meant to work much like the source Fuu-ga, but I wasn't sure if it would overcomplicate it to allow you free use of all air moves. I agree with you though.
4. Hmm, this is something to think more about.
5. Yeah, a line of code was left out :p

Quick update to fix that EX issues and the fuu-ga followups now include all possible air moves

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

May 07, 2021, 07:31:52 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Gato- [Public beta] (Started by Bannana May 05, 2021, 08:49:12 am
Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Updates today covering everything brought up so far as well as extra tweaks.

Spoiler: 5/6/21 (thanks Rowen!) (click to see content)

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

May 05, 2021, 09:31:52 pm View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Gato- [Public beta] (Started by Bannana May 05, 2021, 08:49:12 am
Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

1. Hit pause is 10,5 outside of escalation and 5,5 during. I see the dilemma though, I was thinking of tweaking my formula too. As far envshake, I understand what you mean, I haven't totally gone though extra fluff like that so it's good to keep in mind.

2. Hmm, it's the exact same states, animations, and hitboxes as my other Gato. I was having trouble with this on certain characters but it just put it down to their hitboxes. I did some velocity tweaks prior to uploading, so perhaps that might be a side effect.

3-4. Yeah, just spitballing here for the moment lol

5. Oh this move was broken like I expected it would be! I should check my cancel var, I might not have reset it in the state. Are you using the j.2A command move prior to canceling? It's probably because I left a ctrl=1 sitting around somewhere.

6. This is a sentiment I completely understand. It overriding the move was one of two options, the other being BC. I do think you might be right here.

I appreciate the feedback! My normal testers are far too busy at the moment so things like these I would normally know about prior to release haven't been cleaned up.

Gato- [Public beta]

May 05, 2021, 08:49:12 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Gato- [Public beta] (Started by Bannana May 05, 2021, 08:49:12 am
Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Spoiler: extra images (click to see content)

YEAH It's Gato AGAIN, I know; but, new system, new look, new moves. Total beta, so any feedback would be welcome. Tweaks to damage and heat scaling won't really be undertaken until I have a few more characters done. Probably more FX on the way, I dunno.

Unlike the last Gato, which is much more like MotW+, this is a totally "new" thing based somewhat upon mechanics from Wild Ambition+other Real Bout stuff. For more than a cursory explanation of the system info, check out the project thread, which I'll be updating as time goes on.

A - Punch
B - Kick
C - Strong
⮩ 6/4C - Redirect ^{instead of a normal throw, characters have redirects that turn the opponent around and leave them open}
D - Quick Sway ^{taking the place of lanes are quick sway options, all of which has specific invul properties}
⮩ 5D - Standing Dodge ^{high invul}
⮩ 2D - Hop dodge ^{low invul}
⮩ 6D - Forward Dodge ^{fully invul after 6 frames}

Break ^{A special with two levels of power mapped to A and B, can be canceled early by breaking with AB}
Rai-ga - DP A/B

Escalation ^{Two different specials mapped to A and B respectively, upon entering escalation mode the properties of these change.}
Air rekka - j.QCF A > D A
⮩ E. faster speed for D A rekka
Air throw - j.QCB B
⮩ E. Bounce on ground, faster land recovery animation

Heat ^{A special mapped to C, when heat is full this move becomes an alternate overdrive version of itself.}
Fuu-ga - QCB C (only hits downed opponent, launches) ^{Free jump outside of heat, can be canceled with A/B/C}
⮩ EX - QCB BC

Heat OK
AB - Heat Blow ^{reset your opponent to neutral during hitstun at the cost of very little damage}
AB - Counter Heat Blow ^{an all or nothing opportunity to put the opponent in a counter hit state and deal major damage}
ABC - Escalation mode ^{changes the properties of special moves, and how hittimes are calculated}

Escalation Mode
AC - Feint ^{cancels the current move, regardless of its cancel status}
AAAC/AABC/ABBC chain routes

Heat fills during neutral--movement, whiffing, and so on. It fills based on your velocity; therefore, a faster character will gain heat faster.
Filling it up drops proration modifiers, giving full damage no matter what, allows for the overdrive form of the heat move, and the use of avoid during hitstun. At max heat escalation mode can be activated.

Upon successful Just Defend, a cardinal can be pressed, which allows for the player to set up options during the hit pause where they would otherwise be in block stun.

B- dash
U - hop
F - dash

In addition this can be done during air JD, which gives otherwise unavailable options

F - Air dash
B - Air backdash
U - hop cancel
D - fastfall

In both situations Passing Bonus allows for special/super canceling the moment the recovery animation for the movement begins.

Cancel Chart
All moves that can cancel may be canceled into any move: normal, special, heat, etc.

5A - X
5B - O (contact)
5C - X

2A - O (contact)
2B - X
2C - X

j.A - X
j.B - X
j.C - X

5AB - O (hit)

j.2A - O (contact)

5A and 2A can be freely canceled into all ground B normals, respectively.

Chain Chart
As in Real Bout proper, chain combos are the name of the game, but appear in escalation mode only. Unlike Real Bout, only the standing punch and kick buttons are used to chain, with crouches and strong existing as possible chain enders, making the way the system works much closer to a simplified Ninja Master's. Chains are a series of three inputs made up of combinations of the standing A and B buttons, thus:

AAA
AAB
ABB

These may seem simple, BUT standard canceling rules also apply to them; thus, the generic AB cancel flow can be canceled from an AAA, so it's really not AAA but AAAB. moreover, because special cancel rules also apply, Gato's BA from the chart also works, so a BAAAB is possible inasmuch as you can connect the moves. Moves specific to chains benefit from a free x vel push, as in Real Bout, making them a handy way to close a distance that otherwise might require walking forward.

All of these have three possible ends to the routes. The first is canceling into a special move, as with any other normal; the second is a 2C, a free knockdown that can provide much needed oki options; the third, however, is of most interest, a 5C option that is determined by he preceding three moves in the chain.

The flow of the chain adds another layer to the cancel chart, making escalation mode an option just as viable as expending heat on an EX move.

Not on the site, get it here

Re: Having multiple CNS files [vs] Having one

May 05, 2021, 05:01:58 am View in topic context

Posted by Bannana in Having multiple CNS files [vs] Having one (Started by Kolossoni May 05, 2021, 03:27:36 am
Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion

I dislike scrolling through and editing long files, so if a file is going to be edited frequently and isn't simply backend I prefer to keep it around 1000 lines or so, and I generally split up my normals, specials, supers, system, negative states, and extra files.

It makes my workflow much faster, otherwise I'd have to use a table of contents at the top of the file for ease of access.

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Bannana

Messages by Bannana

Re: The Importance of Hitboxes/Hurtboxes and Why They Matter

Re: The Importance of Hitboxes/Hurtboxes and Why They Matter

Re: (Extra Bout) Fatal Fury

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

Re: Best way to handle AI for ABK-style projectile parry

Re: Best way to handle AI for ABK-style projectile parry

Re: Mr-Popo Download

Re: Garou: Mark of the Wolves AutoHitdef

Re: Best way to handle AI for ABK-style projectile parry

Re: POTS chars Custom Combos should absolutely use full meter, not 1 bar

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

Re: All Fatal Fury Stages with proper transitions and music

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

Re: All Fatal Fury Stages with proper transitions and music

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

Re: Gato- [Public beta]

Gato- [Public beta]

Re: Having multiple CNS files [vs] Having one