Yeah the question is way too generic. Do you want to know why we make them like they are? Or the gameplay sense of them? What is it that you dont understand on them?
What I wanted to know if you could tell how do you come up with their design. For me the hardest thing about coming up with one is that i always make them too long and messy and I think if i would make character with one not many people would understand whats happening.If I still made it unclear then i'"m really sorry for making you waste your time on my comments, I'm still new to this and i dont really know how to make good questions
It's all about pacing and choreography really. If you can understand that it's not too difficult but it's not something easily explained either.
I break down moves into several bullet pointsFirst I define what move I want to portray Then I go around checking how that same move was implemented both in looks and gameplay in past games. When something strong was used before I tend to take cues from it.Then I go at it witht he concept of how to make them more interesting gameplay wise, I prioritize gameplay options over looks and attempt to marry the cool factor of a move visually with certain characteristics that would give them purpose.Do lets say you want to make a Raditz. Classically in budokai games he had moves named after days, like double sunday. They looked like very basic fireballs.I would rework it so that they are large fireballs that could possibly be delayed ( to trick the opponent and serve as temporary shields) and then thrown at the opponent, possibly stunning them but not throwing them down so that I could perform a double sunday and attempt a followup with some sort of rushing move, this would tell me that a rushing move could be interesting, so maybe a double sunday from the air could keep the opponent airborne and stunned for a bit more and be linked with a move with a leaping trajectory, so that move with a leaping trajectory would probably become a grapple move that could be linked with the other, checkiing out EB he has a move that seems like an airthrow , in it he grabs the opponent and smashes them down under his heel. That looks really cool so maybe a leaping forward move that ends with a heel smash followed by him grinding them.Then comes the ex versions of normal moves, they should have a gameplay function other than just "its there" so maybe the ex version of the leap move is a teleport out and then have him homing into the opponentBuilding interesting gameplay takes a while so its not really an easy thing to answer.
I can only agree with what Iced said, there's usually quite some ideas being thrown and discussed before even animating the moves. Though it's very possible then when we start coding, we change things around from what we originally planned, just because they don't always work out the way we intended or we see new possibilities we didn't think of before.
@Horseboots:They make the perfect combination of originality and "usual" characteristics.I mean,there are,say, at least three Piccolos,Gokus etc around all similar,yet a bit different.These guys managed to make characters with all their usual things to be expected yet they are totally different.That my friend takes time,effort,experience, a lot of discussing,testing and most important passion.They put their heart to this and it really shows,it helps to say they find lots of positive messages here.Otherwise they would be of to do more important things.What you need to hold from this message though is if you love something enough and show dedication to ityou'll find a wait to make it look awesome,regardless the experience. (you'll get that in the process).Lastly,i bit of knowledge of how you want a char to be like won't hurt. (ex KOF or SF styles,in any aspect)*Im not a spriter or coder,neither im affiliated with Team Z2,i just wanted to say my opinion on this.EDIT:By three Gokus and such i meant 3 different Gokus in Mugen.And by "usual" characteristics i meant those that are iconic and should be expected from the character (ex. Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon)So you don't misunderstand.
I just realized your game is quite similiar to super dragon ball z like the galick gun attack being a lot off ki blasts and some other stuff correct me if im wrong
It's one of my favorites.thats where this comes in:QuoteThen I go around checking how that same move was implemented both in looks and gameplay in past games. When something strong was used before I tend to take cues from it.Then I go at it witht he concept of how to make them more interesting gameplay wise, I prioritize gameplay options over looks and attempt to marry the cool factor of a move visually with certain characteristics that would give them purpose.The elbow attacks he has are based off a similar move in Butoden.
Had an idea for 18. As she isn't a character yet, figured it might be a good idea to throw it here. Android 18 could be a grappler as there are none in HDBZ as of yet. Basically, you could make her the Laura (SFV) of HDBZ with some of her other strikes could come from Alisa (Tekken).Main grab could be the Infinity Hold, The Flipping Knee Drive in Super DBZ. Anti-Air could be like Rose's "Soul Throw" (SF4/Alpha). It's similar to the Body Toss that she has in the Botuden games. The EX version OR EMO version could have her perform "Photon Strike" afterwards. The floating Ki shots, similar to Vegeta's. Main projectile could be the Destructo Disk. Have it perform like Laura's (SFV) Thunder Clap. A chargeable, slow moving projectile. She could use it to cover her approach. Another grab, that would have both players Switch Sides, would be her Arm Breaker Kick. It would look like Alex's (SFV) Back Grab. Alex drags the opponent until he is facing back. Then, He jumps and kicks them in the back of the head. Just have Android 18 jump a bit lower and you could have her hit the opponent in the arm. Essentially, it's an Enzuigiri to the Arm. She could send the opponent into a crumple state, so no more custom frames would have to be made. Maybe an X-Ray of a Bone Breaking. Her normal Grabs could mimic Blaze (Streets of Rage 3). ================I also see 17 play a bit like (Lars). Not much to add there, he just seems like a good base for his style. Normal Grabs could be from Axel (Streets of Rage 3)Spoiler, click to toggle visibiltyThere is this though:================16 could be a boxer/brute combination (Balrog/Jack). 16 has a line in DBZ. I think Piccolo or 18 asked how he was able to fight Cell. He said "I hit Cell with one of my Hard Punches". Most of 16's skills revolve around clinched hugs and Punches (Rocket Punch). Plus, I don't see how else you'd get a Boxer-type character in a HDBZ game. ================Also, there's this. I initially saw 18 & 17 as Jimmy & Billy Lee. Spoiler, click to toggle visibiltyJimmy even has a similar Crescent to low sweep, like 18 did in one of the Butoden Games.
Sounds nice, though I always imagined that the grappler would be a bigger guy like Nappa or Andriod 16.
I don't think the grappler role fits Andoid 18 well,im not saying this because she is a girl.She seems more for a "rush" type,fast hits in other words.But your suggestion is nice.In my opinion Broly and Android 16 are suitable for the grappler role plusPiccolo is some kind of a grappler,yes "what the what i just said" but he is,sort of.
Who cares if she's a girl? Dragonball's always played a lot with visual expectations: the strongest version of Frieza is the smallest, Vegeta's much stronger than the huge Nappa, plenty of big guys are total jobbers, etc. Android 18 had some tracers of being a grappler in Extreme Butouden and I thought it nice there. I particularly liked the ground-to-air throw where she just grabs someone by the leg and slams them into the ground. As far as grapplers go, though, I'm a big fan of Recoome. I read the manga some time ago and felt like him facing Vegeta and Gohan were great fights, going back to them. And he doesn't seem as dumb without Chris Sabat voicing him.Plus Android 17 and 18 are in the new arc in Super, so maybe it's a good time to wait and see if they have some cool new stuff. Probably not, but who knows.
AgentofDestiny said, March 18, 2017, 01:37:00 amI don't think the grappler role fits Andoid 18 well,im not seeing this because she is a girl.Blue Mary says "hello!"
XGargoyle said, March 18, 2017, 01:53:38 amBlue Mary says "hello!"Of course she does. Blue Mary is just an Android 18 cosplayer anyway. Ninja-Capybara said, March 18, 2017, 01:55:40 amUm, Recoome was kind of an idiot.You have to be kind of an idiot to be in the Ginyu Force. But Recoome was also treating Vegeta like a baby because he's strong enough to; that's also why the rest of the Ginyu Force took the whole scene so casually until Goku showed up./dbznerddebate
shit, i meant saying not seeingone small mistake can ruin you :/EDIT:Also,Thammy i know Dragon Ball can mess you up with what to expectbut about 18 being a grappler,i don't knowFuck it,do as you wish.I would like a Broly Z2 as a grappler that would be interesting and devestating.
