The Mugen Fighters Guild
Help => M.U.G.E.N Development Help => Topic started by: etchd on August 22, 2012, 05:16:10 am
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I have a question,... Im trying to create a new game type for Mugen. instead of players fighting each other they bounce a small ball (like softball or a lil bigger) at their opponent. they can also bounce it on their own creating interesting combos.almost like a juggling act. basically light hits can make it continue to bounce where as heavy attacks/special moves hit the ball way harder at opponent or a wall and it bounces back. ball falls in the middle at begining of round. players cant hit each other, just hit each other with ball. i want to create a mode where its only the player and the ball and you can continuously spike the ball around the stage.
very new to creating things in mugen. I would really love o create this. if someone knows how or where i can start this kind of development process, def let me know. thanx alot!
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it more sounds like tekken ball from tekken 3... correct me if i'm mistaken...
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Yes, a game of volleyball.
Sounds to me like you should move over to Game Maker. And also start on some scribble sticks or something to show how the characters kinda look during gameplay.....I could scribble what I'm talking about if you want, I will even show the titties and ball bounce, two on two right? I'll try to draw some water moving in the back and a net in between them.....
Um... are you talking more like ryu doing his regular attacks only against a ball then the ball go towards the other player then they (let's say Kyo Kusanagi) does one of his attacks like an uppercut or something and then ryu can block or counter or something like that and the player's health keeps going down till one loses?
And not so much about fun and bouncing tits and volleyball?
Either way, look for the bonus stage characters made for mugen (copies of the ones from Street Fighter 2/Samurai Shodown/and Art of Fighting). You'd also have to make each character compatible with this manually, because there is no automatic way for something like this to work on everyone elses characters.
But if you want me to scribble sketch that first thing, I'll do it :), animated if you wanted too.
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This is not really that hard to code. It's just making sure that all your characters attacks are affectteam = B(or F) and having a helper that you hit. It decides based on enemynear, hitdefattr as well as gethitvar what it's going to do. It then does it.
Your only real issue is making it work properly with the opponent if they happen to be random, including sensible AI on it. The "game of volley ball" is easy. Making it work globally is not.
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Yea very similar to Tekken ball, but a smaller ball, and yes each character maintains their moves and abilities. I want every character to be able to play it. The challenge is just coding the ball. The balls physics within each type of hit, like light punches and kicks will simply bounce the ball with the character and not strike but heavy attacks will shoot the ball towards the opponent, similar to Tekken ball. I want the ball to be a little tricky to juggle/combo and say the more attacks u put into the juggle/dribble the more damage it can take. The dribbling will have a hit count. Alot of different activities can come out of this. Such as using all the already created bonus stages like bricks, just now u use the ball instead. There can be a few diff balls with different physics like Tekken ball. I want one mode where one player bounces it off a wall as like a training free mode stage to just have fun seeing how many times it can bounce off the wall. In this mode maybe even two players can be on a team hitting it against the wall for ultimate combos. Alot of different types of games like hitting it into a goal etc. Some stages can be wider so players can launch it back and forth to each other. I'm thinking the the combo development can b something similar to mvc's format of how combos build up and launch off. Can be in the air too. This concept is based off a game I'm developing in real life called BrashBall. You can check out my website that is currently under construction www.brashism.com
In real life the game is played mostly with a bat and a soft ball sized ball, continuously bouncing it to one another all with bats, kinda like hacky sack, except in brashball it's all about creating distance. The farther back the brashers can juggle the ball to each other the higher the rank. U can check out the videos on the sites blog as well as the about page for more information. Even sign up :)
I can def see a volley ball version of the game with using a ball with volley ball physics, small stage, don't let the ball hit the ground, other wise the girl with the big juggs is diving for it face first with her ass in the air so she doesn't lose a point. Otherwise her team loses... But we wouldn't want that would we? Lol
Thanks alot for responding, I diddnt get a response yet on mugen-infantry. I really appreciate it and hope to get this developed. I think it can be alot of fun.
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I'm confused, did you want me to go ahead and do the bouncy bouncy sketchy thing?
Maybe you could also do some sort of sketchy diagram to explain what you mean too? You know Street Fighter 2, the game in which all good head2head fighters have rolled off of one way or another, had game play concept art to go along with the character concept arts and I completely understood what they were talking about through the visual representation even though I've already played the games and already knew what they do/did.
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Yea, I'll def draw some images, it is a lil hard to visualize from thin air. It's kinda like super smash brothers. But with a ball instead. Like instead hitting the opponent off the screen, it's like hitting the opponent into the other opponent instead. The ball is like a punching bag. Maybe the more it's hit, it spins so if the spin is really fast, it can take more damage.
Edtion u def need to draw that image, every version u can imagine lol
I'll def draw some notes to help illustrate this idea. I think it can be really sick and fun if it's done right.
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Behold the utter crap that is my concept sketch, the thing I do before I actually try to draw anything aside from general shaping scenery.
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7001/volleysketch.jpg)
Only drew frame one, but does that and the text-described-actions tell you what I'm thinking? What about the part about how the girl hit by the ball is apparently not too smart to not pay attention to the game?
Point is, that's pretty much what I mean by scribbly sketch, requiring hardly any effort or drawing skills but still put an effort to help a visual explanation.... Now I will try to actually draw this today...I'm thinking the one on the top left has green on and the power kicker has purple-blue.
Is your game something like this wherein points are loss when the ball comes toward you and you DON'T try to stop it, unlike volley where out of bounds is a free point? (hence the ball has to be caught even if it's going above and beyond you)
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I like ur doodle and all the bystanders. I'm thinking no net. They "hit" the ball into the player like punching them the face, like a hit! Say the opponent can block it and the ball bounces off but with enough space to counter it aka volley it back. U gave me an idea tho, say the players attacks absorb into the ball and when the ball hits all of the players attacks damage the opponent. Like a build up. Maybe there is alot of life so you don't die very easily. Idk there can be many different versions like super brash fighter, super brash fighter turbo 40 proof edition etc. To trial and error.
Do u know how we can start coding a ball, prob based off a character? Remember tge ball is like part of the gametypes. Not u vs the ball like bonus stages.
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That boxy line in the middle IS the net, it doesn't necessarily have to be used though, it's purely for the design of what I was thinking about.
I don't really remember mugen syntax, I spent the last 3-4.5 years studying various arts/animations/comics/music and did a few small things in game maker, while mugen didn't really get any spotlight time.
As I spent more time learning Game Maker (and it's far more flexible) I could better describe how to do it there, but not so much for mugen....I could try though:
Game starts, Player.1 (or random) serves the ball as introduction. Every hit state against the ball builds adds power or a var's value; speed is a var that is either added or is calculated on the spot by the power variables.
When a player fails to counter the ball, health is reduced and they are knocked down, sending them to the next serve state. Repeat <<
Like Cyanide said, make the ball a helper and give it collision boxes. Again, since I'm not a core-mugen person, I couldn't really help on this unless I bothered to go back over the help documentation.
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What u described here is basically the type of format.
"Game starts, Player.1 (or random) serves the ball as introduction. Every hit state against the ball builds adds power or a var's value; speed is a var that is either added or is calculated on the spot by the power variables.
When a player fails to counter the ball, health is reduced and they are knocked down, sending them to the next serve state. Repeat <<"
I really want this to be played by most mugen characters. I am designing a animated/manga story with characters that will be in this game eventually so making it on game maker would not be a bad idea, I can draw all the character models etc. I jus don't know how to code any of it.
I saw mugen as being a prototype to this kind of concept. There is alot of customization in brashball and I wanted it's virtual versions to be the same hence, ppl having there own characters like in mugen, I also like the concept of ppl using there favorite fighting game characters in the brash version too.
From what iv seen of mugen like the duck hunt and super Mario bro bonus stages. Bricks to some of the intricate characters ppl have developed. What I'm desribing should be a probably decent handful of physic coding to simply a "sphere".
Ver 1 can be the most simplest form of the concept and over time it can be perfected like street fighter to super street fighter 4 AE.
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Like i said. Coding the ball is SIMPLE. It is honestly the easiest thing you have here.
Things that are hard. Making an opponent with AI behave right. He doesn't know he's playing volleyball, you have to redo his AI completely.
Preventing the opponent attacking your character. They still can, beams, projectiles, teleports, all these would bypass the middle of the screen and get to you. You can do a limited amount of prevention with a push box helper in the middle. But that's imperfect.
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Yea yea the AI is a hump. So the process would be coding the AI and those kinds of sequences right?
Now once coded, the same coding can apply to all AI opponents right?
As projectiles go, maybe the projectiles don't hit the player, they fly either in front or passed them while it can only hit the ball. As beams go, such as like ryus mvc shinku hadoken, the ball shoots foward and repeatedly hits forward towards the wall.
When it comes to setting AI, can all it's focus just be directed at the ball.
The court can have a line in the middle but it doesn't have to, the players can maybe walk passed each other to either side without touching each but changing direction facing opponent.
I do really appreciate u all responding and helping me conceptualize this idea.
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How much editing do you want to do to your opponents? You cannot make their attacks hit only the ball unless you make your character (lets call him volley ball player) completely invulnerable to everything, which defeats the whole purpose of being hit by the ball. Your opponents have to be able to hit him as well, because the ball belongs to him and is an enemy, therefore it has to be hittable as well. You would not do this based on position or anything as you cannot be sure WHEN the hits occur. So actually receiving the hits is your only option.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would be more possible in a full game environment and trying to implement it for global use would be imperfect and buggy. You fix an AI, but release your character, does the person fix that AI too? It falls down once you publicize it.
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Yea, I hear you. I see how it can be pretty complicated.
The AI responds to particular actions, such as low kicks, jumps and projectiles. If the coding of the ball is twicked in all of it's actions to create a particular response to the AI, based on the timing and space of the stage. For instance, the player can be juggling the ball with light punches, the ball can be coded as if those movements are snk/dbz charging so the AI may just approach it or shoot a projectile to intercept the ball (charge). Most AI will play like a player, with the concept of building combos and finishing with a powerful attack. If the ball can code the AI to respond and only attack the ball like it's the player. It's like the many functions and movements of the ball practically through code resemble very specific motions and actions from very specific characters.
The ball is basically the player and the AI just fights the ball. Again there is no net or court, the stage is free roaming in both directions and when passing each other flip directions to face each other. It's almost as if all the coding of the physics and power gauges of attack and hit count of the ball have to be coded with the AI from the gecko. Experimenting the coding with only AI competing against each other in watch mode. Once this can create some sort of a flowing, interesting and some what skillful demonstration. Real players can start to play.
It's like having two AI in brick bonus stage and they will just rage on it not thinking. The ball has to be the same, it just needs some specific response coding to some of it's actions.
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Question is, are you up to the task of starting on the ball beyond the "idea" step? Which is the drawing a circle step, then the adding it to a character file step, then the collision and coding steps :).
(note: use Kung Fu Man)
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Yea whatever is nessesary. I can def draw all the ball illustrations, cause I would want the shape of it to change depending on type of hit. I def would need some help with the coding process but I believe at least for starters we can simply mix and match ans copy paste code from different character models that closely resemble the balls function. Like taking a smaller character that's hit box is only so large, apply that to the ball as well as some other interesting functions that can work. The volleying of combos and air time. The rise of hit percentage and increase of volley physics like ssb. Resets when it hits the ground etc.
I'll do what is nesseesary to get this going, if it's drawing and animating the ball, I can def get cracking on that first but what i think would prob be best to start with is it's coding, taking a small character like the mega an Lego char from mvc2 and having it be the test ball. With the progress of that I can understand what type of animation is needed. I guess the first thing would be to simply edit the characters physics to be more ball like and bounce it around the stage 1v1, no third entity yet. Add some of the functions like megamans drop ball kick move from mvc.
Still will create an illustration, iv been working 16 hr days all this week for Espn and the us open. All these posts have been typed with my iPhone. Next week I'll actually be on my laptop and I can start actually posting references and brash videos to get some sort of better idea.
The game would be more like dodgeball then volleyball, but if we can create different versions of the balls physics, there can be multiple modes.
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(http://edtion.elementfx.com/XD) I think you misunderstand.
Draw a simple circle, then give it any kind of palette and add it into [a test] Kung Fu Man's sprite file without indexed color unless you use his palette. Then add an animation state for it and add a hit & collision box over it. Next add a trigger, inside of Kung Fu Man's code file, that will create the ball so that it could actually be used in the game.
That is the simplest steps in the best order to do right now. If there was something in there that you couldn't follow, then you're not ready to proceed
(only reasonable excuse being that you didn't understand how I said it)
Or in other words, you need to actually know how to make a character before you try to do some complex physics or game addon thing-a-ma-jig.
I advise against you trying to copy other people's set of codes, especially if you didn't know already how to make them yourself. It's okay to learn particular methods from them though (but only if you can understand what's being said)
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...yea I am honestly a noob with character creation. Iv put together a mugen a few years ago using my own beats in it, labels etc. I need to get into creating characters. I just recently downloaded mugen for Mac. Not sure yet if there any mugen editing programs for Mac. I'll have to prob get windows on my Mac or use my girlfriends shitty pc. Thanx for telling me the first step, As of rt now I don't know how to do what u described. I will learn though. Cause I really want to try this. I am a good artist/cartoonist with a line of characters with stories I want to implement into this game. Along with the possibility of the community creating there own characters. I hope to make this a comminity project and development, where as we can work together to get a killer gametype going.
I plan to be driving to Cali in a week or so from NY with my girlfriend. I'll be working on brashball, music, and this game/story on the road and when I'm there pretty intensely. If anyone has seen the site www.brashism.com I'm trying to create a community of creative individuals to help develop it's games and concepts both realistically and virtually.
I'm going to try and get cracking on character creations cause I want to make characters and this concept. If anybody is interested in helping me do this, we can really get a project going. If this is too complicated and gamemaker is more realistic then I'll look into it. The reason I'm so attracted to using mugen is because I'm a fighting game fan and <3 the community and love the idea of players bringing their own fighters to the match and adding new dynamics to alot more game types using their "same" character.
Let me know what u think.
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Like i said. Coding the ball is SIMPLE. It is honestly the easiest thing you have here.
Things that are hard. Making an opponent with AI behave right. He doesn't know he's playing volleyball, you have to redo his AI completely.
Preventing the opponent attacking your character. They still can, beams, projectiles, teleports, all these would bypass the middle of the screen and get to you. You can do a limited amount of prevention with a push box helper in the middle. But that's imperfect.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but couldn't he program the Ball itself as the character and the then have the character you play with be a helper? That way the AI would attack the ball. Then for the -2 -3 states, he could just code states within the ball that don't affect the ball on the screen, but just affect the helper/character?
Also if you ditch the net idea all together and have the whole screen be the court, your character could play on any stage. Not sure if that's quite what you're going for tho...
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You are playing volley ball. This means 2 people. If you code the ball as the player, but it's not what you control, you have to rework all it's hitstates and let the "player" character into them. You could potentially use keyctrl = 1 on the helper, but you may want to manage all the players moves with access to state -2. You also want to allow the ball to go offscreen at any time without affecting floor tension.
Regardless of all that, even if the ball helper WAS the player you would still need to rework the AI because a ball is not the same as a moving opponent.
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I imagine the ball not going off screen cause again this is like an all around bordered ssb stage and the ball is an item with it's own percentage except that when it loses momentum on the ground it resets. The ball doesn't fly off screen instead the camera follows it. U simply hit the ball into the other player for damage, the opponent can block it and attempt the same thing. I do imagine the ball really having alot of very specific coding. Pretty much like as if this is a whole game development with a team. Possibly later transformed into mugen. Idk I'm on site at us open. I can't wait to get on my comp to at least get a drawing to y'all.
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I don't understand much of what you say so I'm going to use my imagination to guess what it is that you're trying to say, then tell you that you should give up and learn to compromise.
You're not going to get this working as you want in mugen unless you nail down and make this compatible with only a select amount of characters manually (and learn mugen syntax and character creation progress)
You're not going to get this working in game maker unless you go learn game maker language, then make some characters and the ball from scratch there.
You're not going to get this working in flash unless you suffer the agony of learning actionscript and applying it to a game, then creating a bunch of characters from scratch there.
You're not going to get this working anywhere else unless you learn whatever they are.
And no matter where you take this, a simple
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/CIRCLE_1.svg/200px-CIRCLE_1.svg.png) will be your easiest and best first step (http://edtion.elementfx.com/XD) <--(I wish this smiley was added to the smiley list)
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Nice lol