The Mugen Fighters Guild

M.U.G.E.N Central => Sprite Projects => Topic started by: WekRiptor on October 28, 2015, 02:12:57 AM

Title: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on October 28, 2015, 02:12:57 AM
I have decided to pick up the scraps of the long forgotten Bardock Z2 project and try to create a full fledged character, using Balthazar's wonderful sprite as a base. I am a beginner to intermediate spriter and am hoping to improve my skills, I hope this endeavor will turn out fruitful!   
(http://i.imgur.com/CS2A018.gif)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Iced on October 28, 2015, 02:17:09 AM
Best of luck. Lets see how it goes.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on October 28, 2015, 02:25:37 AM
Thank you, do you think he should be a very aggressive character, or focus on grabs? Either way, he will probably be the most physical out of the Z2 lot.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Iced on October 28, 2015, 02:43:16 AM
focus on animating your basics for now, if you get through them I can give you a hand later down the line defining those.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on October 28, 2015, 02:54:45 AM
focus on animating your basics for now, if you get through them I can give you a hand later down the line defining those.

ok, just am a bit anxious, I been working on this for a bit but I was too scared to release anything. As for spriting, can do!
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on October 28, 2015, 04:50:57 AM
Medium Punch:
(http://i.imgur.com/AMQnj73.gif)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: likiji123 on October 28, 2015, 05:07:32 AM
This is lookin good!
Cant wait to see more :D
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: 100_Sad_Pandas on October 28, 2015, 05:13:19 AM
I have decided to pick up the scraps of the long forgotten Bardock Z2 project and try to create a full fledged character, using Balthazar's wonderful sprite as a base. I am a beginner to intermediate spriter and am hoping to improve my skills, I hope this endeavor will turn out fruitful!   
(http://i.imgur.com/6zMjh3R.gif)

I think you should try to animate the legs more. Like make them bounce up and down as he does. They look pretty static imo
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: yaret on October 28, 2015, 03:24:36 PM
 wow that's such amazing keeping up :P the sprite looking good
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: MotorRoach on October 28, 2015, 05:17:36 PM
Just saying, but I don't get why the shading on his legs shift so much when his legs are staying completely still.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: likiji123 on October 30, 2015, 08:49:53 AM
Edited the stance, any suggestions for edits?
(http://i.imgur.com/TdfZEmb.gif)
The leg shading shouldn't move that much

Example
(http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u402/GodofDeath94/VegetaZ2.gif~original)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on October 30, 2015, 11:16:58 PM
I will take that into consideration, thank you
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 01, 2015, 12:29:21 AM
Final (possibly) Edit for stance
(http://i.imgur.com/CS2A018.gif)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: lui on November 02, 2015, 06:48:36 AM
not bad, the shading is really jumpy on the viewers left leg
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 02, 2015, 11:17:52 PM
not bad, the shading is really jumpy on the viewers left leg

Any ideas to make it less jumpy? and do you mean the front facing or side facing leg?
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: deddy95 on November 03, 2015, 04:10:55 PM
I think the main problem is the way you're trying to animate a subtle movement. The whole movement of the legs is unnecessary and the result is that, even if TECHNICALLY you did a great job, the animation looks unnatural and shaky.
The problems occur because you try to move every pixel of every frame.
If you observe the transition between the third and the fourth frame you'll get what i mean. The fourth frame should just stabilize the motion and adjust the inertia of the body. It should be the frame where the whole body "stops" for a second to regain an upward acceleration. Both legs move way too much and you can see it just by looking at their outlines. Does this make more sense?
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 03, 2015, 10:26:45 PM
I think the main problem is the way you're trying to animate a subtle movement. The whole movement of the legs is unnecessary and the result is that, even if TECHNICALLY you did a great job, the animation looks unnatural and shaky.
The problems occur because you try to move every pixel of every frame.
If you observe the transition between the third and the fourth frame you'll get what i mean. The fourth frame should just stabilize the motion and adjust the inertia of the body. It should be the frame where the whole body "stops" for a second to regain an upward acceleration. Both legs move way too much and you can see it just by looking at their outlines. Does this make more sense?

I see what you mean, and initially  had a lot more frames but thought it was too slow, I will get back to the stance once I finish the light punch
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 03, 2015, 10:31:36 PM
Here is zero de armentis's edit:
(http://i.imgur.com/08It3SP.gif)
Mine for comaprison:
(http://i.imgur.com/CS2A018.gif)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: The Sudden Rarity on November 03, 2015, 11:48:39 PM
Why don't you combine both stances together?  Use Zero's arm animations and thigh plate animations on your animation?
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: AugustAPC on November 04, 2015, 02:15:00 AM
Zero's edit looks good. The face could still use some work and the hair needs some animation.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Lunchbillion on November 04, 2015, 02:22:09 AM
I actually think zero's is a bit worse. In trying to move every part of the body without actually drawing new frames the overall motion got lost.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: AugustAPC on November 04, 2015, 04:07:35 AM
The animation is questionable but the sprite itself is an improvement in most areas.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 05, 2015, 02:51:19 AM
I took everyone's suggestions and made this :
(http://i.imgur.com/KWrobE9.gif)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: The Sudden Rarity on November 05, 2015, 07:00:17 PM
Wow, the animation looks greatly improved :D
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: DragonSlayerEX on November 05, 2015, 09:02:30 PM
That's impressive. I hope you continue to work hard & improve, over time.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: deddy95 on November 05, 2015, 10:33:12 PM
Last fixes:
- pay attention to the length of his cuff/wristband (sorry i don't know the actual name) on the left arm
- the movement of the crotch is extremely jumpy, it should go along the movement of the torso
- the face and his right hand could really use some tweaking

Other than that GREAT JOB!
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: lui on November 06, 2015, 04:52:05 AM
make sure not to make the hair too jittery as well. nice job so far, I really hope this takes off
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Lunchbillion on November 06, 2015, 10:48:52 PM
You might have already seen this in the last Bardock thread from 2 years ago (holy shit!) but this base of a kick animation is still up for grabs if you want it.
(http://i.imgur.com/0HZqvnF.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/uP2demB.png)
It's not perfect but it's a start :)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 07, 2015, 05:46:42 AM
You might have already seen this in the last Bardock thread from 2 years ago (holy shit!) but this base of a kick animation is still up for grabs if you want it.
(http://i.imgur.com/0HZqvnF.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/uP2demB.png)
It's not perfect but it's a start :)

Thank you very much, this will sure save some time! this could perhaps be a far sp. k
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 07, 2015, 07:18:52 AM
Okay, speak now or forever hold your peace:
(http://i.imgur.com/OIwcnTj.gif)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: walt on November 07, 2015, 07:23:37 AM
Viewer's left hand is moving all wrong. It moves outwards, when inertia says it should move down.

Red band on the forearm on Viewer's Right arm twitches weirdly near the elbow in 1 frame, losing its outline.

Bardock's left leg becomes 1 pixel slimmer around the thigh near the crotch in the last frame where he's squatting the most.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 08, 2015, 12:57:02 AM
I am reaching my wit's end with this, but I must make it perfect!
(http://i.imgur.com/eurflpG.gif)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: likiji123 on November 08, 2015, 02:35:23 AM
I am reaching my wit's end with this, but I must make it perfect!
(http://i.imgur.com/eurflpG.gif)
The left hand jitters, but other than that its perfect
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 08, 2015, 02:44:47 AM
I am reaching my wit's end with this, but I must make it perfect!
(http://i.imgur.com/eurflpG.gif)
The left hand jitters, but other than that its perfect

(http://i.imgur.com/lUdL4X8.gif)
Better?
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: apathy on November 08, 2015, 03:19:17 AM
I fixed it up a bit for you, my edit is on the right:

(http://i.imgur.com/lUdL4X8.gif) -> (https://33.media.tumblr.com/70bb6978123985cecad3af5d7d866dad/tumblr_nxh4q9d1EG1ut4tduo1_r1_100.gif)

Look at the difference between yours and mine, and try to learn from it. Reference other video games for animations; The Z2 team does that in addition to creating custom animations, they look at pre-existing animations and reference it/use it for cross comparison, blah blah blah.

There is an article about Darkstalkers and the Twelve Principles of Animation, read it if you can. Also, if you don't have it, Photoshop CS2 is free and can be of use, for the layering capabilities. Lasso tool/transparency of layers are your friends when you want to make frames.

Since the Z2 style rips off takes inspiration from CvS/CPS3 (Street Fighter 3/JJBA/Red Earth)/CPS2 (Street Fighter Alpha/Marvel vs. Capcom), I suggest you look at their pre-existing animations as references.

You did a good job though, even I couldn't pull that off the first time I started spriting. :)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: The Sudden Rarity on November 08, 2015, 03:20:23 AM
I think someone is using your stuff without credit >_>

http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/bardock-z2-unofficial-p-170398.0.html
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Iced on November 08, 2015, 03:22:30 AM
wasnt this an old project? It might just be someone else picking up the same abandoned project.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: The Sudden Rarity on November 08, 2015, 03:25:41 AM
Well, I hope that's all it is, because I don't wanna see this guy's work/sprites/animations being stolen without his consent/permission.

EDIT: the guy edited his post.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Lunchbillion on November 08, 2015, 03:45:38 AM
Stance is looking great now.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: apathy on November 08, 2015, 03:53:22 AM
Stance is looking great now.

I hope from there he can move onto to other things, and make them with relative ease. :)

I also forgot to put this, but try to organize your project in Phases, like this:

I think its crucially important that his entire concept is together, before doing anything Sprite wise.

I usually list everything out, as so:

Idle
Idle turning
Idle to crouch

Crouch idle
Crouch turning
Crouch to idle

Jump up
Jump forward
Jump backward
Jump backwards
Jump forward dash
Jump backwards dash
Jump landing

Walk forward
Run forward
Walk backwards

Get hit (Idle)
Get hit (Crouch idle)
Get hit (Air)
spinning (Z2 animation)
Back breaker (Z2 animation)
Flipping (Z2 animation)
Running grip (Z2 animation)
Shocking
Midnight Bliss
Monkey transformation

Falling
ground bounce
Laying down
Getting up

Intro
win pose
Time over
Taunt

Idle weak punch
Idle medium punch
Idle strong punch
Idle close range punch

Idle weak kick
Idle medium kick
Idle strong kick
Idle close range kick

Idle crouch weak punch
Idle crouch medium punch
Idle crouch strong punch

Idle crouch weak kick
Idle crouch medium kick
Idle crouch strong kick

Running punch
Running kick
Air weak punch
Air medium punch
Air strong punch

Air weak kick
Air medium kick
Air strong kick

You get the idea. I hope this helps..! :)

Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 08, 2015, 03:55:45 AM
I fixed it up a bit for you, my edit is on the right:

(http://i.imgur.com/lUdL4X8.gif) -> (https://33.media.tumblr.com/70bb6978123985cecad3af5d7d866dad/tumblr_nxh4q9d1EG1ut4tduo1_r1_100.gif)

Look at the difference between yours and mine, and try to learn from it. Reference other video games for animations; The Z2 team does that in addition to creating custom animations, they look at pre-existing animations and reference it/use it for cross comparison, blah blah blah.

There is an article about Darkstalkers and the Twelve Principles of Animation, read it if you can. Also, if you don't have it, Photoshop CS2 is free and can be of use, for the layering capabilities. Lasso tool/transparency of layers are your friends when you want to make frames.

Since the Z2 style rips off takes inspiration from CvS/CPS3 (Street Fighter 3/JJBA/Red Earth)/CPS2 (Street Fighter Alpha/Marvel vs. Capcom), I suggest you look at their pre-existing animations as references.

You did a good job though, even I couldn't pull that off the first time I started spriting. :)


Thank you very much, and yes I briefly over viewed that 12 principles of animation before, though I should brush up on it. As for animation bases, for my medium punch and light punch (currently WIP) I used previous Z2 sprites ( Vegeta's legs and Goku's hair and arms) for the motion, though I could defiantly use some practice

Edit:
Stance is looking great now.

I hope from there he can move onto to other things, and make them with relative ease. :)

I also forgot to put this, but try to organize your project in Phases, like this:

I think its crucially important that his entire concept is together, before doing anything Sprite wise.

I usually list everything out, as so:

Idle
Idle turning
Idle to crouch

Crouch idle
Crouch turning
Crouch to idle

Jump up
Jump forward
Jump backward
Jump backwards
Jump forward dash
Jump backwards dash
Jump landing

Walk forward
Run forward
Walk backwards

Get hit (Idle)
Get hit (Crouch idle)
Get hit (Air)
spinning (Z2 animation)
Back breaker (Z2 animation)
Flipping (Z2 animation)
Running grip (Z2 animation)
Shocking
Midnight Bliss
Monkey transformation

Falling
ground bounce
Laying down
Getting up

Intro
win pose
Time over
Taunt

Idle weak punch
Idle medium punch
Idle strong punch
Idle close range punch

Idle weak kick
Idle medium kick
Idle strong kick
Idle close range kick

Idle crouch weak punch
Idle crouch medium punch
Idle crouch strong punch

Idle crouch weak kick
Idle crouch medium kick
Idle crouch strong kick

Running punch
Running kick
Air weak punch
Air medium punch
Air strong punch

Air weak kick
Air medium kick
Air strong kick

You get the idea. I hope this helps..! :)



Christ, you are just the biggest help for me, I can't thank you enough. Lists are like my fetish, so this helps me organize a schedule for doing this, again thank you

And all of you, thank you, defiantly one of the better communities of people I have had the pleasure to come across, I really appreciate all of your help and words.

Mod edit: Pretty much what Hatter said. Just be careful next time when posting.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: apathy on November 08, 2015, 04:01:50 AM
I'm glad you appreciate the help man. :)

Just gonna give you a heads up for future instances, but double/triple posting isn't usually something you should do on a forum, remember to quote/modify your post when you want to make changes to your posts, as it usually saves you the trouble of double/triple posting, mate. ;)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Fabry Taz on November 09, 2015, 11:33:33 AM
it is great to see this project active again ... I started Bardock long ago, but unfortunately I lost all my progress and I'm going to start all over after my project Biohazard, but the yield willingly :)

ps: you're doing a great job with these animations ;)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: GOD984 on November 13, 2015, 11:20:54 PM
Want me to try to add shading on that kick for you? The one form the old thread? Also the stance looks great!
EDIT: Oh so is that what happened?
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 15, 2015, 03:13:14 AM
Sorry I have been gone for a bit, I have been quite sick so I am still recovering, while I appreciate the help GOD, I'd prefer to do this on my own. This is to hone my skills as a spriter.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: apathy on November 15, 2015, 03:16:17 AM
Sorry I have been gone for a bit, I have been quite sick so I am still recovering,

Get well soon, mate. :)

On another note,

while I appreciate the help GOD, I'd prefer to do this on my own. This is to hone my skills as a spriter.

Good on you, man. I love the drive you have for this project (this reminds of when I started my own edit project. :D). With enough perseverance and practice, you'll get there.

Once you get enough anims, maybe Team Z2 will back your endeavor!! Who knows, all you got to do is plow forward! ^_^
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: GOD984 on November 15, 2015, 02:25:17 PM
Sorry I have been gone for a bit, I have been quite sick so I am still recovering, while I appreciate the help GOD, I'd prefer to do this on my own. This is to hone my skills as a spriter.

Well what Zaitsu said, hope you get better, also okay. I understand.
Your bardock is looking good.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on November 30, 2015, 01:36:34 AM
Update!
If you want me to post the turning sprites just ask, it would be great to see what people think.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: lui on November 30, 2015, 10:13:49 AM
please do, i would like to see what you have done
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: likiji123 on November 30, 2015, 11:18:24 AM
If you want me to post the turning sprites just ask, it would be great to see what people think.
Post them! its great to get feedback so it can turn out even better!
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on December 02, 2015, 05:28:00 AM
Alright! here it is:
(http://i.imgur.com/i5mUV94.gif)
There needs to be some tweaking to the speed, but I don't really know the specifics of turning sprites, so tell me what you think.
EDIT: also new palette
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: lui on December 02, 2015, 05:32:10 AM
it needs to be a bit faster than that, it should take only one or 2 ticks
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on December 02, 2015, 05:35:06 AM
Are the sprites themselves alright? this is kind of a rough draft tbh, so any nitpicks issues you have, please tell me.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: lui on December 02, 2015, 05:37:07 AM
actually, yeah, those are pretty good! nice work!
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: AugustAPC on December 02, 2015, 07:23:12 AM
Whoooaaaa, his leg gets seriously detailed in the main frame.

To me... the animation looks a bit disjointed. It just doesn't look like he hits the right pose in transition. If you focus on his left leg (viewer right) it looks like his knee is buckling. The middle frame has him facing further than left than the final frame does.

Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on December 02, 2015, 01:45:58 PM
Whoooaaaa, his leg gets seriously detailed in the main frame.

To me... the animation looks a bit disjointed. It just doesn't look like he hits the right pose in transition. If you focus on his left leg (viewer right) it looks like his knee is buckling. The middle frame has him facing further than left than the final frame does.



any ideas on a revised turning pose? or do I just need to tweak this one?
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: AugustAPC on December 02, 2015, 02:39:17 PM
Well, I mean... the main frame, the one with the highly detailed leg... it just, to me, seems completely out place. To me, it looks like the first frame in a punching animation, because he's actually turning further than he is in his neutral stance. His positioning should be more facing toward the viewer, since he's supposed to be rotating.  It's also worth noting that the green leg pads are placed improperly based on how his body is twisting.

It's a bit difficult to put in words, so perhaps this will help

(https://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/degrees-360.gif)

His neutral frame (facing right), is about at 330°, assuming the viewer is at 270°.

The animation turning right to left, should go (not including softening frames):
330°>300°>240°>210°
In this instance, frame 3 is a mirror of frame 2 and frame 4 is a mirror of frame 1.

Right now, he's doing something more like this:
330°>180°>210°

There's only 3 degrees because you didn't mirror your middle frame in your animation, otherwise it would look like this:
330°>360°>180°>210°

Hopefully that makes sense. I've been up for over 24 hours and I've been drinking... so I did my best to convey the idea.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on December 18, 2015, 10:29:36 PM
Alright, now with finals over work on Bardock can continue!
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: GOD984 on December 22, 2015, 01:59:09 AM
Sweet, nice beginning turning sprite, although what you might want to do is just make it that way you draw a sprite of him facing the screen, like what Balthazar did with goku.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on December 22, 2015, 02:45:54 AM
Do you guys think I should use the Z2 sprites as bases than edit or completely from scratch? I feel like I'm not up to snuff if I keep reusing sprites and editing them a little.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: KomuruZukitaki on December 22, 2015, 02:52:50 AM
I'd say both scratch for attacks and movement and base for stuff like kaioken back break and Chou Kamehameha finish, etc.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: MotorRoach on December 22, 2015, 03:00:28 AM
That's a reasonable way to put it, since Gohan was also sort of made in the same way. A great bunch of his animations were scratch made, yet part of them were edited from Goku. It works well for them, since they're all family and share alike physique.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: GOD984 on December 23, 2015, 07:47:08 PM
My answer is, *FAKE DRUM ROLL*, Use Gohan, vegeta, and Goku sprites for references, and sometimes bases, Why Vegeta? Well, where did vegeta learn to fight? Planet Vegeta to a certain extent, as did Bardock. So I would look at vegeta's sprites every now and then, but mostly stick to looking at Goku's and Gohans, because of the reason above, if your going to use references.

Also, I would just watch Bardock: Father of Goku, look for some moves, and look for any Z2 sprites with moves similar too the moves Bardock uses.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Kenshin X on December 23, 2015, 09:27:49 PM
Bardock from my perspective, is a very physical fighter, i think most of his attacks should be rushes and combo starters/end(ers?) lots of elbows and knees. He's basically all about hurting you, badly. so it would make sense to make his attacks.. very painful looking. Kind of life broly. smashing faces into the ground etc.. In the movie special episode of bardock, he goes Super Saiyan, grabs this Chilled guy, and his "throw" (as it would be in the game for example) was basically him repeatedly smashing Chilled in the ground..

The best video source for him fighting i would say is that fight against Chilled as a Super Saiyan. it could easily be found on youtube, or a decent anime site
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on December 27, 2015, 07:28:20 AM
New animation I'm making, let's say there will be *ahem* Riots
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: KomuruZukitaki on December 27, 2015, 08:04:39 AM
Bardock is about to change the future
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on December 29, 2015, 08:33:28 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/3YnPPDw.png)

Want to change this keyframe before finalization, thoughts?
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: likiji123 on December 29, 2015, 09:26:47 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/3YnPPDw.png)

Want to change this keyframe before finalization, thoughts?
fix up a few things for you, also the fingers need a little work
(http://i.imgur.com/W38u4bk.png)
(i made stomach 1 pixel smaller and added a bit of shading to the to the viewers right arm... thing)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: apathy on December 29, 2015, 03:52:57 PM
Right (viewer) hand is unreadable, from my current P.O.V it looks a bit like a blob. Here's a good method of drawing pixellated fists/hands I learned from balmsold: use the lasso tool to make a square-ish fist-like shape, and fill it with any random color. Then take an even darker color and start making the outlines for fingers. Try to look at CvS2 sprites and see how the artists made hands readable, then apply it to Bardock's right (viewer) hand.

Also some parts of the body, e.g. left (viewer) palm, right (viewer) biceps and shoulder look square. And on the topic of right (viewer) bicep, you need to lower its height, biceps aren't that big.

Great work overall, lets see where you go from here. ;)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: AlexSin on December 29, 2015, 04:01:58 PM
Right (viewer) hand is unreadable, from my current P.O.V it looks a bit like a blob.

I don't know, it is readable.
Maybe with this doodle you can understand it better:
(http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u402/GodofDeath94/W38u4bk.png)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: apathy on December 29, 2015, 04:11:01 PM
I think its because I'm seeing it from my Galaxy Tab. Yeah, the doodle helped, many thanks, mate. :)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: GOD984 on December 29, 2015, 04:15:46 PM
Overall good job, saying that the sprite isn't finished!
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on April 19, 2016, 04:59:35 AM
I would like to apologize for not posting this earlier. The project has been somewhat postponed. I guess doing all that sprite work must of really messed up my shoulder as I can't sprite for more than 10 minutes without it feeling like someone stabbed me in my shoulder blade. However, a friend is lending me a graphics tablet over the weekend and I am going to try it out, if things go smoothly, I will try to get one for myself and spriting will resume. If not, I am not too sure what to do. Stay tuned as this weekend could see more Bardock progress!
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Lunchbillion on April 19, 2016, 06:40:52 AM
Okay sweet, cool to have an update. Hope your shoulder gets better!
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on April 29, 2016, 05:14:27 AM
Ok, so that whole tablet thing ended up taking up more time than expected however, this is what I have to show for it! (this is the Char select portrait btw)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZnIKGLa.png)

Borderless:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: likiji123 on April 29, 2016, 08:04:36 AM
Looks good but the viewers left arm looks a little weird, his crotch area is too squared and he should be the same height as goku, heres an example for you (im guessing your basing this portrait on the HDBZ portraits)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZQAeMvx.png)
but the pose screams Bardock and i love that! 
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: apathy on April 29, 2016, 10:41:42 PM
Hope you don't mind, but I played around with it:

(http://i.imgur.com/Jug1tj1.png)

In your rendition, Bardock is much taller than Goku, when he shouldn't be (or at least that's what I read here (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Future_Bardock), even if his name is Future Bardock). If Goku is 5'9" and in that page, Bardy is 5'10", he should only be taller than Goku by a sinch.

I'm no master at anatomy, but since I'm reading it as well (only got past the 1st chapter, been meaning to read it for a while >_<), I say give Figure Drawing for All It's Worth by Andrew Loomis an in-depth read. It could help you in future instances.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on April 30, 2016, 06:59:23 AM
Hope you don't mind, but I played around with it:

(http://i.imgur.com/Jug1tj1.png)

In your rendition, Bardock is much taller than Goku, when he shouldn't be (or at least that's what I read here (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Future_Bardock), even if his name is Future Bardock). If Goku is 5'9" and in that page, Bardy is 5'10", he should only be taller than Goku by a sinch.

I'm no master at anatomy, but since I'm reading it as well (only got past the 1st chapter, been meaning to read it for a while >_<), I say give Figure Drawing for All It's Worth by Andrew Loomis an in-depth read. It could help you in future instances.

Will get to that, and thank you for fixing the feet is was dumbfounded on how to fix those
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on April 30, 2016, 10:01:18 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/yOscKgA.png)
some shading plus a revised body, thoughts?
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: likiji123 on April 30, 2016, 10:23:20 AM
pretty good but the hair shading isnt the best so i fixed it
(http://i.imgur.com/ZRUJ8HG.png)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on April 30, 2016, 10:26:56 AM
Did you use Goku's hair for that? looks very similar, also off palette
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: likiji123 on April 30, 2016, 02:49:48 PM
Did you use Goku's hair for that? looks very similar
I used it as a reference, mainly cause their hair is the exact same
also off palette
Well there was only three colours that looked very similar to each other so i didnt have that much to work with
also speaking of colours i did a little update to your palette
(http://i.imgur.com/TQqOcva.png)
the main reason why almost every colour segement has 5 colours is becuase that's how its done in all of the HDBZ portraits, for example goku's HDBZ portrait palette
(http://i.imgur.com/oc9Kcp6.png)

also when you do the tail use this as reference
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

I hope this helps you out with the portrait :neutral:
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on May 13, 2016, 04:33:33 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/ePNyeY4.png)
Thoughts?
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: apathy on May 14, 2016, 04:31:40 PM
From a first glance:

-The  hair looks bad, I'm sure that Goku's HDBZ port didn't have that much dithering.

-Leg muscles, those red leg guards and his tail look flat as well.

- I don't see any anti-aliasing at all, at least on the legs that is.

Face looks really accurate, and arms and hand guards are not too bad.

The HDBZ Goku port would make a great reference, give it a in-depth good look.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on May 15, 2016, 06:59:27 AM
likiji did the hair, so i'm not too sure how to fix it, are the shoes ok? the look off to me. I'll look into everything else though
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on May 21, 2016, 05:46:32 AM
I've kinda changed my mind on my philosophy on making him. I think it would be a neat idea if somewhat amateur spriters all worked together and helped each other out to make this. I think I was too ambitious to start right away with trying a full sprite sheet. I think if I found enough dedicated people, we could make this work.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: lui on May 21, 2016, 07:24:52 AM
I've kinda changed my mind on my philosophy on making him. I think it would be a neat idea if somewhat amateur spriters all worked together and helped each other out to make this. I think I was too ambitious to start right away with trying a full sprite sheet. I think if I found enough dedicated people, we could make this work.

im sorry but this really sounds far-fetched and is even more ambitious than starting a full sheet this early, considering all the different methods, timezones, styles most artists employ at this forum this sounds like an idea that won't be completed at all anytime soon, not to mention for free either.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on May 21, 2016, 09:36:38 AM
I've kinda changed my mind on my philosophy on making him. I think it would be a neat idea if somewhat amateur spriters all worked together and helped each other out to make this. I think I was too ambitious to start right away with trying a full sprite sheet. I think if I found enough dedicated people, we could make this work.

im sorry but this really sounds far-fetched and is even more ambitious than starting a full sheet this early, considering all the different methods, timezones, styles most artists employ at this forum this sounds like an idea that won't be completed at all anytime soon, not to mention for free either.

What I meant was that if someone offered to color something or do some edits I'd let them. I originally turned down those offers but I have changed my mind.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on May 30, 2016, 06:05:22 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/c4OxHez.png)
New and Improved! Tell me what you think.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: MotorRoach on May 30, 2016, 12:37:33 PM
Honestly, the legs look worse. It's way too overdetailed now.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on May 30, 2016, 06:35:49 PM
I what way would I make it better? really all i did was look at vegeta and freeza legs and use those as a base.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on May 31, 2016, 05:12:28 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/nxnoB7n.png)
I think they way I'm importing it makes everything look darker than it is, everything is much brighter when I look at it through photoshop.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: lui on May 31, 2016, 05:20:22 AM
like roach said, youre adding way too much detail with no regards as to how the lighting works at all, your lightsource is all over the place. theres also way too much banding
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on June 01, 2016, 07:08:40 AM
So should I use the old legs? What are problem areas for the light source? The source is above right?
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on July 22, 2016, 04:45:30 AM
Hello, I'm back... again. progress has been slow I know, but here's something:
(http://i.imgur.com/0KfTaEk.png) I'm redoing LP, new frames and such.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on July 29, 2016, 07:56:44 AM
Hey I finished cleaning up the frames I have, I should add more shouldn't I?
Spoiler: Old (click to see content)

Spoiler: New (click to see content)

Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Project.13 on July 29, 2016, 09:26:58 AM
Oh yeah. The way the leg pad just jolts over to the other leg is extremely jarring.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: AlexSin on July 29, 2016, 11:40:30 AM
Before worrying about the number of frames, you should fix the mistakes that are present in the animation; adding in between frames will be easier then.

The second frame is kind of okay:
- he should hunch more,
- the shading on his right leg (viewer's left) changes for no reason,
- his torso becomes slimmer,
- his left red ankle guards (viewer's right) has a very dark fold and doesn't look like in the first frame.

the third and fourth frames have a lot of problems:
- his torso turns completely, while the lower body remains mostly the same; he breaks his body doing that punch;
- the left leg (viewer's right) doesn't change at all;
- for some reason, his right leg (viewer's left) still has the wrong light source, but his red ankle guards have it fixed; the light should come from above (mainly) but you don't respect that.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Zo_Warudo on July 29, 2016, 03:05:51 PM
The leg guard isn't even actually supposed to move all that much if I recall. It kinda stays in place in every animation I've ever seen of Bardock. Plus even if it did move. It would follow the movement of his legs moreso than his torso.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: dragolink1 on July 29, 2016, 07:20:45 PM
is there a posibility to you use the Goku Z2 as base?...
The sprites looks great but there i somthing about the legs, face and armour that doesnt looks good...Maybe the face most be more long, looks too rounded...
Sorry for my english...
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on July 29, 2016, 08:46:26 PM
Alright, I will get to work on all those issues. @dragolink1 I used Vegeta for the legs and arms and Goku for the face.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on August 02, 2016, 04:52:45 AM
- his torso turns completely, while the lower body remains mostly the same; he breaks his body doing that punch;
How would I go about fixing that, I still want him to punch with that fist.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on August 02, 2016, 06:18:18 AM
Here is a quick fix, if something needs fixing tell me.
(http://i.imgur.com/sgVSG27.gif)
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Metal Warrior on August 03, 2016, 06:13:07 AM
Getting better. You're in the right way!
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on August 03, 2016, 09:32:33 PM
T
Getting better. You're in the right way!

Thanks, I'll get to adding frames ASAP.

P.S I'm eally excited for that Online HDBZ tourney happening!
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Yoshin222 on September 13, 2016, 08:37:42 PM
Cool stuff man!
One thing i'll say tho, that punch is using smear awkwardly (it may be the timing but i still feel it worth mentioning) typically smear is used for punches extending out, for example, see Makoto from SF3
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B34rUUKCEAE8zGw.jpg:large)

She uses smear when doing an action, little if ever using it to return to idle. I'd recommend using the smear frame for the punch, then have a frame or two of the punch hanging, then frames for him returning to idle. Merely a suggestion dud,e you're doing great!

PS: The smears presented are used for Makotos DP motion punch attack (forgot the name lol), and her forward throw
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on September 14, 2016, 02:30:31 AM
Thanks man, I'm going to start working on this soon enough, I'll look into it.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on September 25, 2016, 02:21:24 AM
Hey I started working on this again. I was told of a database that has palette references, but for the life of me I can't find it. Anyone know where it is?
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Yoshin222 on September 25, 2016, 03:41:26 AM
I haven't heard of a pallete database. Sounds interesting
Personally i'd download the latest build of Hyper DBZ, that should be good enough
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on September 25, 2016, 07:37:02 PM
Oh well, its not that important, I'd to just like to do an anime accurate palette that's all.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Yoshin222 on September 25, 2016, 08:43:29 PM
(http://orig11.deviantart.net/6594/f/2016/269/9/d/new_by_yoshin222-daiywf0.gif)
Still needs work but it looks promising
(http://orig06.deviantart.net/ae25/f/2016/269/c/1/nepal_by_yoshin222-daiywg4.png)
A possible new pallete if ya like
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on October 01, 2016, 11:36:19 PM
(http://orig11.deviantart.net/6594/f/2016/269/9/d/new_by_yoshin222-daiywf0.gif)
Still needs work but it looks promising
(http://orig06.deviantart.net/ae25/f/2016/269/c/1/nepal_by_yoshin222-daiywg4.png)
A possible new pallete if ya like

Pretty cool pallete! though the pants and armor are a navy blue, that's what I meant by an accurate pallete.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Yoshin222 on October 01, 2016, 11:39:15 PM
Ah gotcha. I am an on again off again fan of DBZ so sorry for the inaccuracy XD
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: apathy on October 02, 2016, 12:19:44 AM
... I hate to be the guy to say this, but it hasn't improved at all.

Light source is all over the place on the leg, leg movement looks erratic (when landing the punch, the leg shifts position unnaturally), and there are proportion/animation inconsistencies. One part of Bardock's armor disappears, he becomes skinny when he lands his punch (that shouldn't happen at all), and hair feels kind of stiff when the animation goes.

Here's something I whipped up quickly (it's not perfect I know, twas really quick):

(http://imgur.com/lhy71qs.gif)

Notice how it all goes a bit smoothly now? And with more refinement, it can be professional looking, Z2 quality.

I have the following to suggest for you: take a break from this project, a small one, and just practice the concepts associated with it: lighting, outlining, animation (This article (http://art-eater.com/2010/07/test-1-darkstalkers/) and this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw0h9WmBlsw) are great), coloring, etc. For your sake, let's say you are only interested in Z2 spriting. Which is totally fine. Do the above, but with the Z2 style in mind. See how Balthazar handles lighting on his sprites, see how he handles outlining and anatomy, and see how he handles animation. Look up all the sprites from his Z2 project threads, save em, and study them.

Practice doing Z2 sprites on easy subjects, then move onto harder ones. Make sure you can at least do those things (single sprites speaking) before moving on to animation. Once in animation, study how change occurs. By this, I mean literally go through Balthazar's sprites and see how an animation was handled. Look through HQ and Barker's animations and see how something changed from one frame to the other, all the while keeping the 12 principles of animation in mind (and see how those apply as well!).

Another thing, well these:

Some behind the scenes stuff to show part of the sprite creating process.

Click Spoiler :)
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

(http://i58.tinypic.com/9pq887.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/kyM4bz8.gif)>>>(http://i.imgur.com/VSMGzRh.gif)

Consider using stuff from other games, and or tracing if need be.

I mean, I hate tracing (I think you didn't want to work over Goku because you want to learn scratch spriting), but if it gets you viable results do it. And hey, Balth is pretty professional, and professionals do it, so why not you? Something to think about.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: WekRiptor on October 07, 2016, 03:26:54 AM
Can do, though, I'm remaking that punch from scratch, so hopefully it won't be as bad.
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: HB on May 09, 2019, 12:09:34 PM
You might have already seen this in the last Bardock thread from 2 years ago (holy shit!) but this base of a kick animation is still up for grabs if you want it.
(http://i.imgur.com/0HZqvnF.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/uP2demB.png)
It's not perfect but it's a start :)

Thank you very much, this will sure save some time! this could perhaps be a far sp. k

guys can i use this kick and other stuff for bardock? maybe ill try to make a z2i character of him if you both don't mind of course
Title: Re: Bardock Z2 (Inspired)
Post by: Lunchbillion on May 10, 2019, 12:08:33 AM
I don't mind if you use this kick :)