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Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami (Read 10551 times)

Started by KarmaCharizard, April 21, 2019, 02:40:00 AM
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Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#41  April 29, 2019, 03:51:38 PM
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- Who is Arpa? When dming Jmorphman on discord he also mentioned him/her but I didn't have any luck founding the user on the forum.
He already posted here, but in the forum is known as Alpaca-san :P he knows a lot of SS chars, especially in MUGEN, so he could be a good guide if you want some SS accuracy

Thanks for the aclaration on the points, so he's accurate to JM's chars as well to CVS2 Haohmaru, good to know that. Also, I think I can make more palettes soon, let me experiment more with that ;)
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#42  April 29, 2019, 04:27:45 PM
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Yo Basara, I tried loading your palette but it seems that the program you use to make palettes messed up the index.

Try using Fighter Factory or Photoshop or I will not be able to insert them.
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#43  April 29, 2019, 04:33:37 PM
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 :mwhoa:
OK, I'll make it again. The program I used to make the palette (Paint Shop Pro) probably inverted the palette, so I'll do it in Photoshop instead, sorry

DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#44  April 29, 2019, 04:54:39 PM
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Chameleon, use FF3's "Invert all the colors of the palette" in the Advanced Palette Editing section. Sometimes older versions of FF/other programs like Gimp/Photoshop will swap the table like this. It looks messed up, because it's been swapped, all you have to do is re-invert it with said option.

Also, yes Arpa=Alpaca-san. He's a big fan of the series and knows a lot about it overall. It'd be wise to heed his advice in all things SS related.
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#45  April 29, 2019, 05:07:50 PM
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Doll Genjuro's headband was a mistake on color separation so thanks for pointing it out.

You may want to check his Midnight Bliss sprites as well. Some colors seem to be messed up.


Also, I've made a bunch of new palettes :)



Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#46  April 29, 2019, 05:11:10 PM
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-->

I think the indexes were not inverted, don't really know what happened in the process. No problem though.

How can I tag people from the forum? I tried a couple of posts ago but it didn't work. I'll tag Alpaca-san once I post the next beta (missing Issen and his lvl 3 right now, and all EX specials).

Also thanks for the palettes sabockee, your palettes are all quite good. I'll try to fix midnight bliss ASAP, it gave me a lot of problems since it's from dampir/drex cvs sprites.

DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#47  April 29, 2019, 05:27:37 PM
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Type "@" right before the user's name, then ":" . So, @ --> Alpaca-san --> : Or hover over their profile and see their "real" moniker, doing the same as above.

@Arpa:

^Like that.




Neo Discipline

Don't use the old one. :P
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#48  April 29, 2019, 05:54:46 PM
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OK, now it's fixed

I made few changes to the palette, like I left white the headband and I found another dark color to be filled with Genjuro's dark hair, so now it looks like the black spots of the former palette are gone.

I think the indexes were not inverted, don't really know what happened in the process. No problem though.
I noticed the same issue too, maybe it has to be the "save as" feature in PSP. I wanted to invert the palette as DW noticed before but I found that, so I remade it under Photoshop instead, shouldn't be problems now

Neo Discipline

Don't use the old one. :P
And about making a Tohma palette, that one looks a lot like Seishiro :P
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#49  April 30, 2019, 03:12:07 PM
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https://www.mediafire.com/file/v7865h2qb5zbvch/Genjuro.rar/file
@DW: New beta is up. Regular and MAX version of Gokou Zan, and Issen, are coded. Would like to ask you for some help regarding an issue: during success gokou zan (regular, sounds not implemented on MAX Gokou Zan) I implemented the voicelines for each hit. The problem is that they suddenly cut. I tried changing the channels (even using a different channel for every voice line, and always being different from wosh and hit sounds) but I don't able to fix this issue. If you could lend me a hand with this problem would be appreciated.

- MAX Gokou Zan doesn't have the improved properties nor a buffed hitbox (for now).
- There's placeholder damage for the suppers right now. Issen damage will be inversely proportional to user's life. +50% HP will do the minimum damage of a lvl 1 super in CvS2; -5% HP will do as much damage as strong lvl 2 super in CvS2. Still don't know which damage values I'm gonna use as reference.

Sick palette btw, loved it.

Testing the implemented supers in general would be apreciated. It's probably because I'm a newbie but making custom states is a nightmare haha.

Also @Peter B. Parker:, now the palette works perfectly. Thanks, it looks quite nice.

Once fixed all these issues, only the lvl 3 and EX moves will be missing for final beta version.

DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#50  April 30, 2019, 07:08:02 PM
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Don't give them a channel at all. They're close together timing wise and short, so with all of them having the same channel, they'll cut each other off whenever the other triggers. Basically delete the channel parameter.

I can't seem to do Issen at all... QCB -> QCF + any punch is what it says in the Readme, ain't working though. Well, honestly the way you have it written in the Readme...I hope you don't have it coded the way it reads there. Gokou Zan feels a bit stiff as well. I'm not sure if you have this coded as a true double QCF, or as QCF -> D,DF + any punch. The latter would be better.

Also, I hate to say, but his projectile still isn't restricted properly. The way it's supposed to work is, he's supposed to be able to throw another one when an active one is gone, or not in a active state. So, during the state when it hits p2, showing the card then turning into cherry blossoms(disperse state), he should be allowed to throw another. He can't currently, he has to wait until the projectile is basically gone before he can throw another.

EDIT:

And about making a Tohma palette, that one looks a lot like Seishiro :P

I have no clue who that is lol. It's based off TMNT Leo Fast Forward season.
Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 07:16:30 PM by DW
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#51  April 30, 2019, 08:25:48 PM
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Don't give them a channel at all. They're close together timing wise and short, so with all of them having the same channel, they'll cut each other off whenever the other triggers. Basically delete the channel parameter.
- Done. Gotta learn more about playsnd, I thought that channels were mandatory.


I can't seem to do Issen at all... QCB -> QCF + any punch is what it says in the Readme, ain't working though. Well, honestly the way you have it written in the Readme...I hope you don't have it coded the way it reads there.
- Sorry, forgot to say that I'm using HCBx2+punch as a placeholder. I'm not sure about what the command is gonna be, since it source is usually 3 attack buttons at the same time (in SSVSP is medium slash, kick and special).
Gokou Zan feels a bit stiff as well. I'm not sure if you have this coded as a true double QCF, or as QCF -> D,DF + any punch. The latter would be better.
- It's coded as in Jmorphman's Benimaru double QCF, using the exact lines of code haha. I honestly have problems reading his buffering system, but I'll try to get better and check this issue out.
Also, I hate to say, but his projectile still isn't restricted properly. The way it's supposed to work is, he's supposed to be able to throw another one when an active one is gone, or not in a active state. So, during the state when it hits p2, showing the card then turning into cherry blossoms(disperse state), he should be allowed to throw another. He can't currently, he has to wait until the projectile is basically gone before he can throw another.
- I think now it's fixed. I think I get what I was doing wrong.
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#52  May 01, 2019, 04:41:37 PM
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Sorry for double posting.

@DW:
So I need to adress the elephant in the room. Fudajimai fatality in source is a dash that when connects goes into autocombo and kills the opponent. Problem is quite simple: I don't want the lvl 3 to be the same type of move as Issen. I have a thought on how to play around this issue, and is related to the Rage Explosion mechanic:



In source this is a mechanic that you can perform while in ground during hitstun or standing. It has 2-3 frames of startup, pushes back your opponent, has full invincibility, is unblockable, and does no damage. It also fucks your rage meter for the rest of the match and you can perform the fatality if your opponent is in kenki gauge range and you're in round 2-3. Fatalities are invincibe blockable dashes.

I remember SNK handling rage explosion poorly in SvC. If I remember right, it's the exceed, and it's a slash that you can combo into. Then you enter in pretty much charged K-Groove and you can perform Issen. Far different from SSV, where you can Issen only during Muga no Kyouchi (was that the name or I'm messing the name up with some Prince of Tennis power-up?)

Two ways of adapting Rage Explosion into a level 3:

1) 2 frames stratup that pushes back your opponent. Does have full invicivility but is blockable, cannot be performed during hittstun and still does no damage. When hit, it combos automatically into Fudajimai fatality.
2) Trying to reproduce SSVSP as much a possible, having rage explosion being a get out of jail unblockable card. Going into rage explosion would put you in rage (+damage during a short period of time, in SSV Genjuro's rage last 8 seconds). During rage you can perform Fudajimai.

Option 2 seems natural as is super accurate, but would cause a fuck ton of balancing issues, plus Fudajimai would still be too similar to Issen in terms of function (Issen being potentially more efficent in terms of meter due to scaling damage). Of course there's not a "CvS2" way of handling this because CvS2 had K-Groove to cover rage as a mechanic and Haohmaru didn't have access to Rage Explosion during K-Groove.

Option 1 seems quite simple and still fairly strong for a lvl 3 and I think is the way to go but would like to get your opinion since you're experimented with converting this kind of characters.

DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#53  May 01, 2019, 05:00:57 PM
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Option 1 sounds good to me. They both could work, though option 1 is more streamline, and sounds like something that would have been done for CvS. It still holds the essence of the move, but "modernized" so to speak. I like it.

On the subject of Issen though, I like how Waru/Chazz handled this for Haohmaru a bit better then the way you did it. I mean, it's essentially the same, yes, but the initial hit, into a dash back, then the slash through has more "OMMPH!"

I know the way you have it currently is straight from source, though it lacks impact. I think doing it the way Waru/Chazz did it for Haohmaru would give it a better feel overall. I think that super I mentioned earlier is a custom super made in MUGEN... Cause I looked through a showcase of SS2-6 for Genjuro, and didn't see the move anywhere in them.

Lines were blurred... Disregard, though I think I'll try and find it anyway just to show it. I'll also see if I can find some of those cherry blossom FX I saw with someone's Issen attack on their Genjuro. Looked really nice. It can help set him apart a bit more from Haohmaru. Even thought the move is practically the same between the two, alternate aesthetics can give the illusion they're different. :P
Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 08:45:16 PM by DW
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#54  May 01, 2019, 05:23:36 PM
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You could always do it the NGBC way.

I had a similar idea of using rage, but may not fit what you are going for.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
I made it so, Issen can only be used after it etc. So it could also work as a lvl3.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#55  May 01, 2019, 09:16:19 PM
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This is the super and the FX I was talking about:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Took me a while to find this, cuz it's some way back shit. Just wanted you to see the super I was referring to. I don't think it's a official super though, so disregard. Also, this is the Genjuro I was talking about. Now Arpa, don't jump down my throat about this. The Genjuro wasn't very good, we know this. I'm not suggesting he use it as any type of reference. Though the FX/SFX for Issen, are very clean and unique/befitting for Genjuro. Just throwing it out there. Whether you(Chameleon) do or don't, it's entirely up to you man.

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#56  May 01, 2019, 10:44:04 PM
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Man, that effect on the lvl 3 desperation move looks so cool.
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#57  May 02, 2019, 12:15:21 AM
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Totally agree, those FX look sick AF :D

Also, I got inspired and I made some palettes based on the SS 3D games, also all psychopaths as Genjuro:

Haito Kanakura from Warriors Rage

Yaci Izanagi, also from Warriors Rage

Deku (Haohmaru's evil clone) from the first SS64... but also could count as Asura from SS64-2 :P

I hope you like them ;)
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#58  May 02, 2019, 06:55:50 AM
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What do you mean don't get on your throat Divinewolf? I thought you liked erotic asphyxiation...
Anyways
* I see very noticeable issues with the slashing fx

should be layered behind him like



is a bit off sync from


* For the throw, the opponent should slide a bit before the kick as they're being pushed. As of right now it looks like Genjuro is aggressively making the opponent talk to the hand.

* In general Genjuro feels too weighted even by CVS standards. I feel more like I'm playing Samurai Shodown 3 all over again. Perhaps I'm spoiled by how light footed he can be in SS4-SS5sp.

My suggestions for how to handle Rage Explosion are as follows:

A) Instead of Exceed Combos, allow him to execute a Rage Explosion once per match. Its duration scales on how close you are to losing like in 4, the early 3D games, and the 2019 reboot (Current life total, if you lost a round). This also opens up Issen with the negative lifeadd scaling the same way.

B) What Warusaki did was make the Zetsumei Ougi and Issen share one level 3: It's that near invulnerable dash move but the Issen happens if it won't do enough damage to KO the opponent and the Zetsumei Ougi happens if the move is going to do enough damage to KO the opponent.

it's because they are already content with what they have done, mugen is not a paying job so as long as the charcter works for a creator that's enough; one's persons crouching while running is another person's change it to pots style.
Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 08:55:07 AM by Alpaca-San

DW

Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#59  May 02, 2019, 04:59:31 PM
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What do you mean don't get on your throat Divinewolf? I thought you liked erotic asphyxiation...

Gotti...



Well, since it was brought up, I might as well give my opinion on it too. Custom(Excel) Combo.... What you want to do is up to you, Chameleon. Though, I was talking with JZ a few days ago, and to be totally honest, this ability is useless for like, 90% of the chars that have it. A lot of people do stuff like give normals that shouldn't have forward momentum, forward momentum to create the illusion that the mechanic is useful.

This is a high tier ability in CvS, but only for specific chars, like the infamous Sakura SRK loop. A-Groove for most other chars, is trash, because they have no loop to take advantage of. Arpa's idea sounds good honestly. It'd be way more useful than CC for Genjuro. Though as I said, it's entirely up to you.

EDIT:

I initially read that wrong. I thought Arpa said Excel, not Exceed. I'm not 100% on what that refers to. So, yeah... Still, it's all up to you(Chameleon). Regardless of anything suggestions/opinions thrown your way. I don't want to overload you with stuff.
Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 05:16:10 PM by DW
Re: Susan Sarandon's WIP thread: Genjuro Kibagami
#60  May 02, 2019, 06:31:26 PM
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I meant excel. For whatever reason I was originally thinking of about how it was done in SVC Chaos and that leaked into my post. Like what you people have done. You instilled SVC Chaos into this poor Alpaca's brain.

Also yeah, the thing with original combos too is that POTS version is actually nerfed as well. Like, almost nobody really needs it as you're putting your meter to better use with super cancels.

it's because they are already content with what they have done, mugen is not a paying job so as long as the charcter works for a creator that's enough; one's persons crouching while running is another person's change it to pots style.