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Is it a fool's errand to try to covert my MUGEN into 384x224 local coord? (Read 853 times)

Started by thepacifist, January 31, 2020, 01:23:41 AM
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Is it a fool's errand to try to covert my MUGEN into 384x224 local coord?
#1  January 31, 2020, 01:23:41 AM
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After playing more old Marvel vs. Capcom style games on MAME I've become more aware of how there was extra space in the stage for play since the resolution was 384x224 and not the standard 320x240. I've also become aware, thanks to some of Electro's posts, that by changing the localcoord of a stage in MUGEN (with some light editing, e.g. making sure to rebound the left/right parts of the stage) and character you could have more space to play in MUGEN without it looking any worse. I just tried the 384x224 localcoord with a stage and two characters and they looked and played great, especially when put in a 4:3 window. I realize that characters might need more editing than stages so their super backgrounds, for example, appear properly. The MSH screenpack I tested this localcoord with would also need a good amount of editing since lots of it was off-center. The more editing the less likely I might embark on this effort, but the allure of playing my Marvel vs DC Capcom-style MUGEN setup in a way that more closely mimics its source material (so that characters have more room on the visible stage to play in and are more proportional to what you would have seen in the arcade) might keep drawing me to tinker.

Is this foolish thinking? Are there more insurmountable roadblocks such that I should just accept the 320x240 setup and move on with my life or is a setup closer to Marvel vs Capcom just a bit of editing away?

Here's what a before and after look like. First pic is typical 320x240:


Here's what it looks like if localcoord is set to 384x224 for the stage and characters (did not edit the screenpack here) and resolution set to the same:

As you can see, there's more space on the left of Thor and on the right of Cap. Interestingly, Cap's shield looks rounder in the 2nd shot which makes me think this is the better way to go if it's not a huge headache to make everything work properly.

Also for comparison, here's MvC:


And here's MUGEN (again screenpack not adjusted and vertical part of stage not adjusted). Notice that you can see the man on Spiderman's left in both as well as the small monitor to Cap's right in both :


Another mugen perspective:


Anyway, appreciate any heads up on pitfalls ahead, and the severity of them, should I continue to try to morph my MUGEN in this direction. Also, if this retrofitting is a project someone or some group has already embarked upon, please point me in their direction. Thanks!

Re: Is it a fool's errand to try to covert my MUGEN into 384x224 local coord?
#2  February 01, 2020, 07:41:40 AM
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Depends.  If all of your characters in this screenpack are programmed 1:1 (which is horrifying), then why not?  You'll only have to do some minor stage fixes and fix the screenpack.  That might take a while.  Never tried anything like that.

On the bright side, your capcom stages will finally have correct scaling.  No one ever bothers to convert stages to proper 4:3 because it's such a hassle.
Re: Is it a fool's errand to try to covert my MUGEN into 384x224 local coord?
#3  February 04, 2020, 04:19:02 AM
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Hmmm.
As the gentleman above said, bright side is yes youll have correct scaling buuut,
I would say from experience working in some obscure localcoords for experimental purposes,
The work vs returns will depend on what you are wanting in the end.

Personally i would say that if the main goal is to have as much of the additional screenspace available as possible then you would be better off considering going for a widescreen localcoord or alternatively going up to 640x480 with zoom functions enabled and tweak on a stage by stage basis to adjust screen bounds
Re: Is it a fool's errand to try to covert my MUGEN into 384x224 local coord?
#4  February 04, 2020, 05:24:23 AM
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As you can see, there's more space on the left of Thor and on the right of Cap. Interestingly, Cap's shield looks rounder in the 2nd shot which makes me think this is the better way to go
Because it is.

The spriters at Capcom were completely aware their work would be displayed on a 4:3 monitor regardless of the CPS/CPS2's internal resolution and made their sprites according to that.
Re: Is it a fool's errand to try to covert my MUGEN into 384x224 local coord?
#5  February 04, 2020, 06:52:23 AM
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There is also a glitch within mugen where non standard resolutions will cause the characters to be dragged out of the corner if the opponent moves back
Re: Is it a fool's errand to try to covert my MUGEN into 384x224 local coord?
#6  February 04, 2020, 08:39:57 PM
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.. I just tried the 384x224 localcoord with a stage and two characters and they looked and played great, especially when put in a 4:3 window. I realize that characters might need more editing than stages so their super backgrounds, for example, appear properly. ... The more editing the less likely I might embark on this effort, but the allure of playing my Marvel vs DC Capcom-style MUGEN setup in a way that more closely mimics its source material (so that characters have more room on the visible stage to play in and are more proportional to what you would have seen in the arcade) might keep drawing me to tinker.

Is this foolish thinking? Are there more insurmountable roadblocks such that I should just accept the 320x240 setup and move on with my life or is a setup closer to Marvel vs Capcom just a bit of editing away?

Also for comparison, here's MvC:


And here's MUGEN (again screenpack not adjusted and vertical part of stage not adjusted). Notice that you can see the man on Spiderman's left in both as well as the small monitor to Cap's right in both :

Anyway, appreciate any heads up on pitfalls ahead, and the severity of them, should I continue to try to morph my MUGEN in this direction. Also, if this retrofitting is a project someone or some group has already embarked upon, please point me in their direction. Thanks!

You are right and wrong at the same time in your thoughts; the cps arcades were working with that odd resolution because the monitor types that were used in those years were CRT and nowadays we only have LCD and the mode they display the images are different on both , the former using a cathode ray to draw point by point, line by line all the screen over and over AND the laters drawn the entire screen at once over and over.

with that in mind the developers created the sprites more detailed and stretched horizontally because they knew that the CRT curved display will show the images in correct aspect ratio (the curvature was a flaw fix for the long way the ray need to draw the screen correctly at time)

for that reason now you see the real drawed aspect ratio on new flat monitors instead of how you could see it fixed. (notice the character select screen with the squared portraits and spheric planet)



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Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 05:35:01 AM by MangeX
Re: Is it a fool's errand to try to covert my MUGEN into 384x224 local coord?
#7  February 05, 2020, 05:53:24 AM
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Thanks everyone! Appreciate the info! Sounds like if I wanted to more closely mimic the cps2 arcade look, 384x224 would be the way to go.

PhantomD, if my goal was for my setup to look like the cps2 arcade cabinets, would this be worth the effort in your opinion? I’ve thought about the 16:9 aspect as maybe being easier but I wonder if I would need to edit beam characters like Thor, including their sprites, which may or may not be easy/quick, especially if I have to do it for many chars. In the 384x224 setup, Thor’s lightning bolt reaches across the screen whereas in the 16:9 setup, it doesn’t and would need to be edited if I wanted it to reach across the screen. I’m assuming other Marvel/DC chars are the same (e.g. cyclops) since they were made for the 384x224 resolution.  So maybe 384x224 is harder with respect to screen pack but maybe not with characters? Correct me if I’m wrong or there was something else I’m not factoring in such that is should reconsider 16:9.

Amidweiz, I appreciate the flag on the potential weirdness regarding stage movement in not typical resolutions. Will test that out when I’m on my laptop. That would be funky and I wonder if there’s some way to fix that with a stage tweak. Hope it’s fixable or peculiar to KFM or some resolutions but not all atypical ones.

MangeX, thanks for all that! Any help with the math would be great. Appreciate it!

Re: Is it a fool's errand to try to covert my MUGEN into 384x224 local coord?
#8  February 05, 2020, 06:29:45 AM
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Amidweiz, I appreciate the flag on the potential weirdness regarding stage movement in not typical resolutions. Will test that out when I’m on my laptop. That would be funky and I wonder if there’s some way to fix that with a stage tweak. Hope it’s fixable or peculiar to KFM or some resolutions but not all atypical ones.

MangeX, thanks for all that! Any help with the math would be great. Appreciate it!

Said glitch is exclusive to mugen 1.0, I think it's fixed within mugen 1.1 but I'm not sure.