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Kyosuke Kagami (Read 8234 times)

Started by DW, March 27, 2020, 06:31:08 PM
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Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#21  March 30, 2020, 05:18:43 AM
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Another release knocked out of the park. Two bits of feedback and also some additional palettes:

- Whenever you finish the opponent off with Final Grade Remix, only Hinata's voice clip will play. I'm assuming that's not supposed to happen because Batsu has a voice clip in the snd file, but it never plays in the group winpose, just Hinata's line plays. For all intents and purposes, I'll assume Kyosuke also talks during the pose, though he also doesn't talk at the current moment.

- Unsure if this might be an intentional thing, but you can't cancel into Shadow Wave or Shadow Cut Kick during an air combo after a kick, only with the punches.

Aaand here are the palettes.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Loving how he plays and feels, he just might rival Rock and Hiryu as my favorite of your characters.

Edit: Forgot to reply to this due to the hassle of posting IMG links here via mobile:

I loved that Dante palette, my favourite one!!

Hi, I am indeed the maker of that Dante palette. I'm happy you like it so much ^^ Here's hoping you like some from this most recent batch (:
Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 06:46:56 AM by Project.13
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#22  March 30, 2020, 01:23:22 PM
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An air combo is an air combo, I don't know why you're talking out your ass. CvS2 is a game that didn't have a single uniform way it tackled their characters. Morrigan for example could do basic chain combos on the ground like in VSAV, Kyosuke was given air combos like in PJ, Haoh got his Heavy Slash, etc. Air "juggle" is an arbitrary term you're using, that doesn't even fit, to describe MVC style combos that don't even exist in this character.

DivineWolf's style isn't Jmorphman's either. They don't have to play like the other characters in your "POTs style roster" which I guarantee you don't follow all the same rules either. The source game itself didn't follow the rule set you've imposed upon yourself. Kyosuke had air combos. Its literally how he played in source. Stop being such an entitled prick.
And I'm saying that's not an "air" combo. Yes I'll agree it's still a combo, but not an air one. All fighting games have different ways of using combos and Kyosuke uses a unique kind of one that's not part of the own game's mechanics (That's like saying Ryu in MvC plays the same in CvS2). That's not how it works in CvS2 as all characters in the game are balanced to play fairly against each other. If that character has a specific mechanic that no other character has, it would be unbalanced and people would prioritize that character than the others. If one character has air combos, then all should have them.

The only difference is MAX mode instead of Custom Combo, that's it. Everything else is similar to PotS with effects and mechanics. Just because that's how he's plays in the source doesn't make anything else you say is true. That's just poor assumption on your part. Well excuse me for criticizing, I am only giving feedback like I usually do and you're acting hostile in front of me.

Froz's chars don't even have a buffering system. I've changed the timings on the buffer based on Vans' Chizuru and Rugal. What I did earlier was far too restrictive and a lot of the time, moves wouldn't come out. I've already updated most of my chars with this, and will soon be done with them all. It's not a bug, and I'm not going to go back and forth with you. You can believe w/e you like.
Froz was someone I just choose at random. Then what about Cruz, ReddBrink and Victorys as they're closer to yours? It's supposed to be like that and I had no problem with them previously. None of their characters has ever allowed you to carry over their commands in the air into their ground versions, so the restriction makes sense. I don't think CvS2 allows you do that. If that was the case, I would have saw it in all PotS style characters and I wouldn't have said anything about it. So it's not a bug, but an "exploit" and you intend put this exploit into all your characters. You might as well just change everything at this point as it's no longer faithful. Put those CvS2 hit sounds and that blue power charge effect back, I don't even care anymore.

The "sigh" is in direct response to you assuming I gave him air combos because it's "my own thing". Umezono just explained this to you. I'm not going any further.
Because it is your own thing. You're not adding the landing effects that's suppose to be in certain areas, fixing the two normal shockwaves playing claiming it's a M.U.G.E.N limitation and are planning to put an exploit into them. Those characters are finished, hence the individual updates for each character throughout 2019. If you're doing another one, was all those updates from last year all for naught?
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#23  March 30, 2020, 03:10:55 PM
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Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#24  March 30, 2020, 04:25:48 PM
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SolidZone, what happened to you, dude? I remember you being a kind of chill dude about feedback, and then since the Omega Zero thing you've just been acting like a jackass. What Umezono and DW are telling you is the truth, that is something Kyosuke had in CvS2, by holding DF and pressing HK, Kyosuke could launch the opponent into the air and do a magic series style air combo. It's not something DW added himself, and even if it was so what? He's his own author and his own person, he doesn't need to adhere to an arbitrary set of rules that you just decided exist out of nowhere.

DW

Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#25  March 30, 2020, 04:47:12 PM
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Thanks for another great release, DW!

NP, thanks for the support and pals. Appreciate it.

Another release knocked out of the park. Two bits of feedback and also some additional palettes:

- Whenever you finish the opponent off with Final Grade Remix, only Hinata's voice clip will play. I'm assuming that's not supposed to happen because Batsu has a voice clip in the snd file, but it never plays in the group winpose, just Hinata's line plays. For all intents and purposes, I'll assume Kyosuke also talks during the pose, though he also doesn't talk at the current moment.

- Unsure if this might be an intentional thing, but you can't cancel into Shadow Wave or Shadow Cut Kick during an air combo after a kick, only with the punches.

-I have voices there for them, even in the code as well. However, It felt too messy with them all saying stuff overlapping one another. So, I kinda went with just Kyosuke and Batsu being silent and stoic, while leaving Hinata being more lively and talkative. You can activate the code for the voice if you want. You know how to deal with sounds, so you know what you're doing.

-It is intentional. He can cancel from j.LK/j.LP/j.MP only. That's the way it is in CvS2.

Thanks for the feedback, support and pals. I'll add these soon.



Lol! You're quite the conundrum. I'm in a weird place right now with how I should respond to you. Trying to keep composure, but on the verge of losing it. I like how you speak with such absolution/conviction, yet, know literally nothing about what you're trying to "provide feedback" with. While there are several people who have been inspired by me directly, and have decided to follow the way of the "DivineFist", at the end of the day, they are them, and I am me.

I honestly didn't time the buffering windows right starting out. And unfortunately, guys like Cruz and recently Rythmical followed my mistakes. Which I'm almost inclined to fix this for them, as I feel somewhat responsible. I'll indulge in your lunacy for a bit: What landing FX am I not adding that I should? I didn't even notice that 2 ground explods were happening when p2 hit the ground from Shadow Break. That's how insignificant it is. Yet, you act like it's all that matters. You put far too much stock in what I would care about what you care about.

You're a very special case. Let's see where the road takes us. I guarantee you're not gonna like it.

Just got the idea for a palette I couldn't hold myself from making true.
-Danganronpa.

Thanks for the pal, I appreciate it. I'll add it soon.



Don't waste your time. It's like talking to a brick wall.
Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 05:07:23 PM by DW
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#26  March 30, 2020, 04:53:43 PM
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SolidZone, that's enough. Your "feedback" has been categorically and definitively denied multiple times and the reasons have been supplied and the evidence shown.

If you don't accept it, that's your problem. Stay out of this topic. I don't even want to see a final word from you, on penalty of timeout. Since this is an ongoing issue, consider this an ongoing warning to learn when to stop.
Every child, woman or man
Opinion don't matter, stick to your plan
If they judge, still don't budge
Don't give an inch, don't give a nudge
Life's a bitch, leave you battered and bent
Lose or win, gotta hold up your chin
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#27  March 30, 2020, 04:57:46 PM
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-I have voices there for them, even in the code as well. However, It felt too messy with them all saying stuff overlapping one another. So, I kinda went with just Kyosuke and Batsu being silent and stoic, while leaving Hinata being more lively and talkative. You can activate the code for the voice if you want. You know how to deal with sounds, so you know what you're doing.

Why not make it so that the lines play in a sort of roulette? Like with Kyosuke's winpose, where his lines play at random. If that sort of thing is possible with special winposes, I'm only just starting to dabble with adding/replacing sounds in the code.

-It is intentional. He can cancel from j.LK/j.LP/j.MP only. That's the way it is in CvS2.

From what I was doing, Kyosuke can't cancel from j.LK though. I'll have to check again later, but it was both light and medium kicks after the launchers.

DW

Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#28  March 30, 2020, 05:11:38 PM
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-Meh.... I never intended for Kyosuke to say anything, just Batsu. You can just take the voice code from his default winpose and put it into the FGR winpose if you like. It's already set up like that and picks the 2 lines at random.

-He can trust me. But he can't if you do a attack he can't cancel from after one he can. Like, if you do just j.LK or j.LP -> j.LK, he can cancel from it. However, if you do j.LK -> j.MK, he can no longer cancel.
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#29  March 30, 2020, 06:55:34 PM
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Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#30  March 30, 2020, 07:20:50 PM
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So you were right about the j.LK cancel, that one's on me lol. I can't really get the random quotes working on the winposes though, now it's only Batsu that's speaking lol
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#31  March 31, 2020, 12:13:09 AM
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Amazing DW!

First, sorry I couldn't provide much feedback during his development. As you know, it's been a wacky month lol. Anyway, I wasn't the biggest Kyosuke player and I see you long since addressed the Ikemen issue lol. I can't provide you much accuracy in terms of game play. But overall, very solid and he's found a place on my roster. Looking forward to the next one! :sugoi:
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#32  March 31, 2020, 01:36:31 AM
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Froz was someone I just choose at random. Then what about Cruz, ReddBrink and Victorys as they're closer to yours? It's supposed to be like that and I had no problem with them previously. None of their characters has ever allowed you to carry over their commands in the air into their ground versions, so the restriction makes sense. I don't think CvS2 allows you do that. If that was the case, I would have saw it in all PotS style characters and I wouldn't have said anything about it.
CvS2 does, in fact, allow you to do this. As do most fighting games. It's only MUGEN that lacks a proper command buffer, which means this behavior doesn't show up in the majority of characters, PotS style or not. Those with a command buffering system (like EXPLODsive Buffering or TinyBuffering) can replicate this behavior; all of my recent characters can do it too. It's never gonna allow someone to perform a whole command in the air and then, 30 ticks later, when they're on the ground, have it come out. The timeframe is gonna be fairly small, but it will exist.

Of course, the actual implementation of a custom buffer system can change how this ends up feeling in MUGEN.

DW

Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#33  March 31, 2020, 03:43:27 AM
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So you were right about the j.LK cancel, that one's on me lol. I can't really get the random quotes working on the winposes though, now it's only Batsu that's speaking lol

You can literally just copy and paste the "voice" coding in Kyosuke's standard winpose, into the FGR winpose state. States 181 and 182 respectively. As for Batsu and Hinata, they only have one win quote. I guess if you mean just sometimes they'll say it, and sometimes they won't, you can add like "&& Random < 500" to the trigger1 of their voice code. All you have to do is activate it again for Batsu. You'll have to add another voice, if you want it to randomize like Kyosuke. Just add it in the same group as their other voices, at the end of said groups.

Number it accordingly, then apply it like how it is with Kyosuke's voice code. I'm not really sure what you want here, though I believe I explained it so you can do it.

Amazing DW!

First, sorry I couldn't provide much feedback during his development. As you know, it's been a wacky month lol. Anyway, I wasn't the biggest Kyosuke player and I see you long since addressed the Ikemen issue lol. I can't provide you much accuracy in terms of game play. But overall, very solid and he's found a place on my roster. Looking forward to the next one! :sugoi:

No problem. I know things are crazy right now for a lot of people. Thanks I appreciate it.



@Marnie:

Let me address this before I announce this: I mostly blew off your response about the pal at first(mainly due to the other guy), though what's with the 3rd degree and passive aggressiveness?

Any specific reason you didn't include the palette I made back when he was a WIP?

IDK. Is there any specific reason, outside of just forgetting, that I would have? You tell me. Person I don't know. You got some animosity going on apparently. If I didn't see a pal in a char that I made one for in this regard, I'd assume(as I'm sure everyone would) that the author just forgot, and would have responded in kind:

"Hey man, you forgot my pal with this release"

Would have more than likely posted the pal as well for convenience sake. Had I gotten such a response, I wouldn't have even gave it a second thought. Let me draw a line in the sand: Don't be passive aggressive with me. Maybe you're just cynical by default, I'm gonna go with the benefit of the doubt here. As I said, I don't know you. My opinions on people in general are usually neutral, while those I have respect for are of course positive.

I rarely have "smoke" with anyone, as I don't pay much attention to people in general. You're in the neutral range now, heading for the negative. As I can't stand passive aggressiveness. You seem to have fabricated some perceived slight I've somehow caused against you. Where as the truth is, I just overlooked it. If you have something you want to get off you chest, you can PM me or maybe Discord would be preferable. Or not, doesn't matter to me. So long as you know where I stand.



At any rate: Kyosuke has been updated with the new pals made and the one I forgot. Also, an alternate SFF has been added in the "extra" folder with alternate hires'd FX made by Trololo. I like what I have by default, but also like what Trololo had done. So, I decided to give the player the option.
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#34  March 31, 2020, 05:51:04 AM
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Yeah, I actually could have explained that better. What I'm trying to do is make it so the voice lines shuffle randomly between Kyosuke, Hinata and Batsu whenever the winpose happens. Like maybe Hinata says something one time you do it, and then the next time the winpose occurs, maybe Hinata says it again or Kyosuke or Batsu say something this time.
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#35  March 31, 2020, 11:46:13 AM
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what's with the 3rd degree and passive aggressiveness?
There is no passive aggressiveness, it was just a question.

IDK. Is there any specific reason, outside of just forgetting, that I would have? You tell me. Person I don't know. You got some animosity going on apparently. If I didn't see a pal in a char that I made one for in this regard, I'd assume(as I'm sure everyone would) that the author just forgot, and would have responded in kind:

"Hey man, you forgot my pal with this release"
Yes, there is, you could have simple ignored it because you didn't like the pal, or any other reason. That's why I didn't asume you forgot it in the first place.

Let me draw a line in the sand: Don't be passive aggressive with me. Maybe you're just cynical by default, I'm gonna go with the benefit of the doubt here. As I said, I don't know you. My opinions on people in general are usually neutral, while those I have respect for are of course positive.
I don't know why you're worrying that much about one question I made. If it's because of how I asked it, well, you have done the same before, didn't you? You may not know me but I remember all the times that you responded "passive aggressive" to me (and to other people but it's irrelevant for now). I'm just treating you the same way you treated me.

I rarely have "smoke" with anyone, as I don't pay much attention to people in general. You're in the neutral range now, heading for the negative. As I can't stand passive aggressiveness. You seem to have fabricated some perceived slight I've somehow caused against you. Where as the truth is, I just overlooked it. If you have something you want to get off you chest, you can PM me or maybe Discord would be preferable. Or not, doesn't matter to me. So long as you know where I stand.
It doesn't matter to me, to be honest. Sure, I don't like to argue like that with anyone, and I don't mind talking to you via PM or discord, but at the same time, if that conversation never happens, makes no difference to me.

I respect you as a creator, your chars are among my favorites to play and you're one of my main inspirations to become a creator, but sadly, that's it, I can't tell the same about you as a person. Not that my opinion is important, anyway. You're asking me not to be "passive aggressive" with you (which I wasn't), even though you were with me many times and with other people.

Anyway, I won't bother you anymore. I don't want to derail the topic, if you want to continue this you're welcome to PM me.

DW

Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#36  March 31, 2020, 07:58:21 PM
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Yeah, I actually could have explained that better. What I'm trying to do is make it so the voice lines shuffle randomly between Kyosuke, Hinata and Batsu whenever the winpose happens. Like maybe Hinata says something one time you do it, and then the next time the winpose occurs, maybe Hinata says it again or Kyosuke or Batsu say something this time.

Not 100% on how to randomize with 3 or more(probably more ifelse stuff I don't feel like doing), but you can just activate Kyosuke's and let it play always. It's honestly not that intrusive.

1)Go into the sound file and change sound 6010,3 to 6000,5. Save it.
2)Go to Hinata's win state(StateDef 6002) and replace the voice coding with this:
Code:
[State 6002, Voice]
type = PlaySnd
trigger1 = AnimElem = 1
value = 6000, ifElse(Random<500, 4, 5)
channel = 7

Then save it.

This will randomize between Batsu and Hinata. Not sure if it will sync up properly for Batsu..? As I'm not sure on which frame I was having his trigger... Though the frames have to be the same for both in this regard. As it's technically only triggering from Hinata's state.
Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 01:42:36 AM by DW
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#37  March 31, 2020, 09:33:32 PM
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Great job, I havent tested the character out yet, but you should've hit me up for prior testing. I play the shit outta CvS2 so I could've given some make or break feedback, all just for you of course.

Do note, that in CvS2, Kyosuke is literally shit tier character, bottom of the barrel and absolutely useless. But wait I'm not dissing you or the fact that Kyosuke's nickname by the CvS2 pro community is KyoSUCK. I'm not dissing, just addressing the truth about this guy. So where am I trying to get at? I'm not attacking you at all, I was just suggesting this could be his chance to shine with what you got. I think if you gave him some buffs that the original CvS2 didn't have, he would be pretty good. Such as 1 frame invincibility on his flash kick, or better CLSNs or something. In CvS2, his flick kick thing can combo off of LP or LK, but it's decent by itself with a roll cancel.

DW

Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#38  April 01, 2020, 01:31:01 AM
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Bruh relax. I wouldn't take anything you said as an "attack" on me lol. I know Kyosuke isn't very good in source. He's better than like, King and Dan, but that's not saying much. Still, I have a soft spot for Kyosuke. Love his spriteset for one. Especially since not originally from a 2D fighter. Also, while he may not be that good overall, he has some solid damage output with his launching potential.

The EX versions of his specials should give him the buffs he needs. EX Shadow Cut Kick has invulnerability like an SRK. EX Lightning Upper is unblockable in the air, and allows him to juggle from it. EX Shadow Break comes out much faster and he doesn't go up as high as the normal variants. You actually have to respect it and it ground bounces p2. EX Cross Cutter and Shadow Wave respectively function more like traditional projectiles. While EX CC in particular I fashioned based on Goku Black's energy sword slash projectile from DBFZ. You can manipulate the speed of it by using different button combinations with it's use.

I actually considered giving his default SCK some invul frames...but decided against it because of EX variants.
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#39  April 02, 2020, 04:00:49 AM
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The EX versions of his specials should give him the buffs he needs. EX Shadow Cut Kick has invulnerability like an SRK. EX Lightning Upper is unblockable in the air, and allows him to juggle from it. EX Shadow Break comes out much faster and he doesn't go up as high as the normal variants. You actually have to respect it and it ground bounces p2. EX Cross Cutter and Shadow Wave respectively function more like traditional projectiles. While EX CC in particular I fashioned based on Goku Black's energy sword slash projectile from DBFZ. You can manipulate the speed of it by using different button combinations with it's use.

Fuck yeah!!!! Lol. Those are the buffs Capcom would have given him, something like that. Oh, if only if only.... he needed those buffs man.... good stuff!
Re: Kyosuke Kagami
#40  April 02, 2020, 04:29:13 AM
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I really like how his chain combos if you will are locked up behind certian requirments.
You cant just hit the normal beam from the ground or ex version and hit the chains.
Its really good stuff.