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Vermilingus is trying to improve (Read 3253 times)

Started by Vermilingus, May 20, 2020, 11:40:36 AM
Vermilingus is trying to improve
#1  May 20, 2020, 11:40:36 AM
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I've been gone for like 4 years but I've finished my degree so I can start learning properly again







Any critiques you may have on my technique are appreciated, I'm trying to improve
Hopefully I'll start being able to do my own lineart soon so I can make more from scratch stuff rather than relying on existing lineart
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#2  May 20, 2020, 12:22:56 PM
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Pretty good.

You trace over pictures, right ?
Because the proportions are ok, but all of that lacks of pixel details.

You need some basics about how to avoid having "full line of pixels"

Sorry it's very hard to explain it with the right word
And I'm certainly not the right person to give you advice because I have an irregular pratice.


In Videl, the shading can also be improved.

The good point is you color choice. It seems very good!
So... 3 hours later...
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#3  May 20, 2020, 01:55:17 PM
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I'm not 100% sure on what you mean on "full line of pixels" but I've tried to touch up the shading on Videl a bit
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#4  May 20, 2020, 02:12:43 PM
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Also tweaked the shading on Android 21
I used my one remaining colour to add a darkest tone to the lab coat, which I've used to better distinguish the inner of the coat from the outer, and define where the left shoulder ends and the lapel begins. I also took the lightest skin tone (would've used the white from the coat but the skin tone was just that bit more red) and added some hair highlights
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#5  May 20, 2020, 09:26:08 PM
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I'm not 100% sure on what you mean on "full line of pixels" but I've tried to touch up the shading on Videl a bit

There's a lot to improve in your spritework. I think what Nedflandeurse meant is that if you flatten the shading of your sprites, erasing all of the colors and shading, they are quite good, lines and proportionwise, but the shading is really barebones. I suggest you study some official sprites to get the grip of how shading works to improve.
By the way, I edited your Videl to give her a face closer to the Dragonball style, only the eyes/nose/mouth:

Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#6  May 20, 2020, 10:26:40 PM
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You need some basics about how to avoid having "full line of pixels"

Banding. That's what it's called.
Don't hug a colour with another colour, sometimes break the lines a bit with some anti-alias.

https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299&PID=139322#139322

Also try to shade everything with a light source set in one place, in some places I see areas that shouldn't be lit.

I noticed that your gloves have five colours, but the main ones are four and the one you used for anti-alias is almost unnoticeable from a first glance.
Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 10:53:41 PM by AlexSin
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#7  May 21, 2020, 12:23:26 AM
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Thanks guys for translating what I tried to say. :)

Yes, I think you should check tutorials about pixels and also check existing sprites.
Then you will see that banding is really useful to give a better definition of volume to your characters.

It can be used for outlines AND for transition between 2 colors of shade.
So... 3 hours later...
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#8  May 21, 2020, 10:44:29 AM
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You need some basics about how to avoid having "full line of pixels"

Banding. That's what it's called.
Don't hug a colour with another colour, sometimes break the lines a bit with some anti-alias.

https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299&PID=139322#139322

Also try to shade everything with a light source set in one place, in some places I see areas that shouldn't be lit.

I noticed that your gloves have five colours, but the main ones are four and the one you used for anti-alias is almost unnoticeable from a first glance.

Yeah I've always had issues with visualising lighting directions, takes some getting used to.

Thanks for the banding info, I know I have a heck of a lot to learn so I'll try practicing it. I can see places where I could be AAing more effectively, so I'll get back to you with a *hopefully* more improved version.

Edit:

I've tried breaking things up a little (I know I haven't improved the shading direction yet I'm trying to solve one problem at a time, I tweaked some bits a touch but I'm not thrilled with how it turned out so I'm focusing on one skill at a time)
Is this kind of what you meant with cutting down on the banding? I know there's probably more places to do it and maybe one or two where I may have gone overboard, idk.

I did cut out the fifth colour on the gloves though, and tweaked the greys slightly to go more to blue. The more I looked at the colours there the more I hated it. Still not entirely satisfied if I'm being totally honest.
Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 11:25:38 AM by Vermilingus
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#9  May 21, 2020, 10:49:37 AM
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I'm not 100% sure on what you mean on "full line of pixels" but I've tried to touch up the shading on Videl a bit

There's a lot to improve in your spritework. I think what Nedflandeurse meant is that if you flatten the shading of your sprites, erasing all of the colors and shading, they are quite good, lines and proportionwise, but the shading is really barebones. I suggest you study some official sprites to get the grip of how shading works to improve.
By the way, I edited your Videl to give her a face closer to the Dragonball style, only the eyes/nose/mouth:



Yeah I know my spritework is still kinda weak, but hey that's the point of this thread lmao

Thanks for the face tweak; I find faces really hard. I'll take a closer look to breakdown the sorts of ways I can do that better next time.

When you say barebones, do you mean I need to define more detail or just that the technique itself is lacking? Chances are both are true.
Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 11:29:00 AM by Vermilingus
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#10  May 21, 2020, 06:21:15 PM
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Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#11  May 21, 2020, 10:39:27 PM
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Yes, I think you should check tutorials about pixels and also check existing sprites.
Then you will see that banding is really useful

Show me a pixel art tutorial that endorses banding, and I'll show you someone who doesn't really understand pixel art.

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Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#12  May 22, 2020, 12:15:43 AM
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I think he's just struggling with the terminology, I think he agrees with what you're saying, he's just confusing AA as a technique to use with AA Banding as an issue



I was wondering if I'd done a good job eliminating some of that banding?
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#13  May 22, 2020, 01:18:12 AM
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I mean,the term banding is not very used in pixelart; like I have no idea what are you talking about. I remember reading about banding in 3d graphics since the n64 times but not in pixelart.
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#14  May 22, 2020, 10:29:24 AM
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tfw you get shown just how terrible you are at shading so your next project is just "featureless man in his underwear" for lighting practice.

Edit: the more I look at this the more I hate it. The legs are all wrong and I've separated out sections that really don't need to be.
Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 11:39:09 AM by Vermilingus
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#15  May 22, 2020, 12:29:44 PM
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tfw you get shown just how terrible you are at shading so your next project is just "featureless man in his underwear" for lighting practice.

Edit: the more I look at this the more I hate it. The legs are all wrong and I've separated out sections that really don't need to be.



Okay it feels slightly less of a travesty now, but I'm still not sold on my shading on the legs
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#16  May 22, 2020, 07:07:30 PM
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Okay it feels slightly less of a travesty now, but I'm still not sold on my shading on the legs

This looks like your first non-traced sprite and, to be honest, looks like a step back. The proportions are really off and, again, I can't figure out where the light source is located. Again, I suggest you study some official sprites to get how the shading works.

Check this out. I tried to fix the proportions and shading of part of your sprite (non-grayed zone); you can use it as reference to improve it:

Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#17  May 23, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
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Okay it feels slightly less of a travesty now, but I'm still not sold on my shading on the legs

This looks like your first non-traced sprite and, to be honest, looks like a step back. The proportions are really off and, again, I can't figure out where the light source is located. Again, I suggest you study some official sprites to get how the shading works.

Check this out. I tried to fix the proportions and shading of part of your sprite (non-grayed zone); you can use it as reference to improve it:



Thanks a lot, you're right it is my first non-traced sprite, thanks for the comparison sprite and the honesty, I'm finding the light source stuff really hard to visualise.
I'll do some digging and study.

First thing I can see from looking at yours is I'm not using my midtones *nearly* well enough
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#18  May 23, 2020, 07:09:56 PM
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I've tried to take your adjustments, and a lot of time looking at Z2 Vegeta and a little bit at Trunks (his leg positioning is closer to the one I've done) to see if I can do something and extend a couple improvements to a couple more sections (working bit by bit to hopefully give more focus)
I know it's not perfect but am I at least moving in the right direction?
Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 07:36:23 PM by Vermilingus
Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#19  May 24, 2020, 09:43:32 PM
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Leg definition needs work, but torso is better.
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Re: Vermilingus is trying to improve
#20  May 26, 2020, 03:31:02 PM
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Yes I know the leg looks terrible I don't think I've ever produced a piece of sprite art I've been less confident in, I'm just hoping I could get some more specific feedback than the "it looks bad" I can muster to myself right now. I've spent way too long staring at Vegeta's leg to see what definition I can add without it looking either completely Toriyama or just really dirty while also maintaining the light direction properly.

I hope this isn't something a lot of folks just find instantly easy and natural because wow this is causing me some grief
Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 03:41:47 PM by Vermilingus