Helper Help!

[Ryon]

i'm working on a new character. i'll release info on him soon enough. but from what i can see he was never made so i'm making him (similar to my solid snake)

anyways i'm trying to learn how to use Helpers and most guides confuse the hell out of me. sooooo in light of that i'm coming to you guys for help.

basically what i want him to do is, throw a shurikan , and you guessed it! the shurikan is the helper.
the only problem is, i got it to appear properly, and hurt the opponent properly. BUT for some reason it refuses to move. i added a velset/add code and it only moves like 1 inch (real life 1 inch), can someone please tell me the correct code to move helpers as projectiles? here is what i have. oh and note the top part is the animation it self where the character gets ready and throws the shurikan, the bottom is the shurikan itself.

:=================================================
[Statedef 300]
type    = S
movetype= A
physics = S
juggle  = 5                     
velset = 0,0
ctrl = 0
anim = 300
poweradd = 20
sprpriority = 2

[State 300, 1]
type = Helper
trigger1 = animelem = 3
helpertype = Normal
name = "Shurikan"
ID = 300
pos = 40,-70
postype = P1
stateno = 305
ownpal = 1
supermovetime = 1

[State 300, 7]
type = ChangeState
trigger1 = AnimTime = 0
value = 0
ctrl = 1
:=================================================
[Statedef 305]
type    = S
movetype= A
physics = S
juggle  = 5             
velset = 0 ,0
ctrl = 0
anim = 305
poweradd = 20
sprpriority = 2

[state 305,0]
type = velset
trigger1 = animelem = 1
x = 5
y = 0

[State 305, 1]
type = Hitdef
trigger1 = time = 0
attr = S, HA
damage = 50,0
animtype = Heavy
guardflag = MA
hitflag = MAFD
priority = 3, Hit
pausetime = 0, 0
sparkno = S507
sparkxy = 0, 0
guard.sparkno = S510
hitsound = 5, 0
guardsound = 6, 0
ground.type = High
ground.slidetime = 5
ground.hittime  = 60
ground.velocity = -8,0
airguard.velocity = -1.9,-.8
air.velocity = -8,-2
air.hittime = 60
givepower = 10, 5
velocity = 5,0

[State 305, DestroySelf]
type = DestroySelf
trigger1 = time >= 100

[DemonicDrPhil]

try getting rid of the velset block and then changing velset = 0 ,0 in the 305 block to velset = 5 ,0

i think it is because the trigger for the velset is for the first frame and then the rest of them get the default 0,0 that you have there.

hope I am right

[Ryon]

OK! i changed it and test it ! same thing! from what you wrote i understood that you wanted me to get rid of the velset code, and turn the statedef velset to 5,0. tell me if this is right, because it didnt work. it did the same thing. 1 inch.

:=================================================
[Statedef 300]
type    = S
movetype= A
physics = S
juggle  = 5                     
velset = 0,0
ctrl = 0
anim = 300
poweradd = 20
sprpriority = 2

[State 300, 1]
type = Helper
trigger1 = animelem = 3
helpertype = Normal
name = "Shurikan"
ID = 300
pos = 40,-70
postype = P1
stateno = 305
ownpal = 1
supermovetime = 1

[State 300, 7]
type = ChangeState
trigger1 = AnimTime = 0
value = 0
ctrl = 1
:=================================================
[Statedef 305]
type    = S
movetype= A
physics = S
juggle  = 5             
velset = 5,0
ctrl = 0
anim = 305
poweradd = 20
sprpriority = 2

[State 305, 1]
type = Hitdef
trigger1 = time = 0
attr = S, HA
damage = 50,0
animtype = Heavy
guardflag = MA
hitflag = MAFD
priority = 3, Hit
pausetime = 0, 0
sparkno = S507
sparkxy = 0, 0
guard.sparkno = S510
hitsound = 5, 0
guardsound = 6, 0
ground.type = High
ground.slidetime = 5
ground.hittime  = 60
ground.velocity = -8,0
airguard.velocity = -1.9,-.8
air.velocity = -8,-2
air.hittime = 60
givepower = 10, 5
velocity = 5,0

[State 305, DestroySelf]
type = DestroySelf
trigger1 = time >= 100

[DemonicDrPhil]

D'OH you have physics = S which means friction acts on it

change to physics=N

wouldn't a projectile be better for this?  all it looks like you are doing is throwing a shuriken

what properties does the move have that you want a helper?

[Ryon]

ahh yes that worked! thanks a bundle!

now another question!

how do i make the helper explode and disappear?

like a hitspark, cause now it hits the opponent but keeps going.

[Cyanide]

Destroyself on movecontact.

Why are you using a helper for this? Projectile does this sort of thing perfectly well, and is less CPU intensive.

[Ryon]

i've noticed character that use helpers as projectiles. tend to go through or completely kill normal projectiles.

so i wanna make this on par with the other type of projectiles.

plus this is a learning situation for me.

thank you Cyanide.

[DemonicDrPhil]

add an anim of the thing exploding and I think there is a destroy self anim or something like that

[Ryon]

althought i understand what your saying.

i dont understand in mugen code.

can you please show me the code i should enter?

[Cyanide]

No, cos that wouldn't teach you anything.

Create a secondary state, have the helper changestate to that when it hits. In that state set the anim as the destruction one and have the helper destroyself when animtime = 0. In addition in the original state set up a hitoverride that also sends it to this new state so when cancelled by a projectile it dies properly.

[Ryon]

not to come off mean or anything, but i learn easier if i'm shown what to do, then i can mimic that and rearrange the parts of it, and learn like that.

but if you insist.

[Cyanide]

If we show you direct you're copy pasting. If i was to write this specific piece of code it wouldn't include anything you had to change aside from 1 animation setting.

You need

Hitoverride 1
Changestate movecontact
destroyself frontedgedist <
new state
explod time
destroyself animtime

Aside from hitoverride which you may not have used before i'm sure you've used the rest of them.

[Ryon]

hit override , frontedgedisti never used.

but i almost never used Movecontact either untill now.

indeed this is a huge learning experience. @_@

[Cyanide]

Frontedgedist is really self explanatory wouldn't you say?

As for hitoverride the docs ARE there for a reason and you could look it up to find out how it works.

[Ryon]

i can imagine how frontedge works.

and i've only skimed through the docs.

truth be told,i made raging ken by skimming through docs, and having my prior knowledge of mugen from my years of editing small parts.

*i've been around ever since 2000, i'm sure you've been here about the same right cyan?*

[Cyanide]

Yes, that's correct. I started creating about 3 months in, and there was way less available to make things easy then.

Here's hitoverride for you seeing as you don't really get that one

type = hitoverride
trigger1 = 1
stateno = next state
attr = SCA

[Ryon]

I Knew it! i've had your gotenks before.. and well he kinda sucks but i'm mainly saying that cause the gotenks in Hyper Dimension sucked too. but at least i know my memory isnt failing me.

anyways...

type = hitoverride
trigger1 = 1
stateno = next state
attr = SCA

my basic way of learning mugen coding is by turning it into words, simply words with everyone can understand and from what i can see.

"Change to next state (xxxx) when the hit override is 1 (check)"

thats my guess... but my main question at hand is, what is hit over ride? is it to override the user commands IF the move is HIT , or NOT HIT?

*THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP!

[Cyanide]

It overrides the next hit that occurs to the character.

You use it for super armour and stuff as well. Hitting the opponent all you need is movecontact.

If you're hit you have 2 choices. Hitoverride which prevents anything with the line p2stateno making contact with it. Or Reversaldef which cannot be active at the same time as a hitdef. As you're using a hitdef the whole time, hitoverride is the one you should be using.

Gotenks was good in his day. His day is now long past (like 6 years ago). I think he's still well done. Even if he doesn't live up to current standards.

[Ryon]

thanks for all this help cyan, i'm heading out to work now and i'll give this all a shot when i get home. since Byakki is my #1 priority, R.ken being my 2, and snake being my 3rd.

EDIT: oh by the way, was your Gotenks in DBZ Mugen Edition 2 ?

[Cyanide]

No. Offered him up for 3 but never heard back. Then 3 died.