Your "perfect" Kyo Kusanagi?

[Elix]

To everyone who likes this character in KOF: what would you want to add/change in him to suit your tastes if you were able to change anything? Look at my sig for an example.

[K.O.D]

Everything my Kyo is.

Eg. '98, Mu Shiki, less complicated Aragami/Dokugami follow-ups, etc.

[Elix]

OK, that counts. Specify "less complicated Aragami/Dokugami follow-ups", please.

[S.D.]

EX Kyo from KoFXI, except:
Command attacks.
I'll give him Kyo-1's command attacks, Migiri Ugachi and Kurogami.

Specials:
He's fine as it (Air RED kick, etc.) except for:
His new dokugami chain shouldn't use a power stock (Originally it was like that in NGBC)
I don't really mind the chain attacks, they're good for mix ups, Kyo really needs a follow up that hits as an overhead though, I don't think Aragami and Dokugami chains are that complicated either, they're quite easy in my opinion.

I'd keep his LK Kototsuki for juggling purpouses but definitely change the HK version, it tends to be rather useless (The only use I've seen for this is charging the powerbar)

Supers:
2K style 182 Shiki is fine, it's quick and Dream canceleable, same for Orochinagi for the classic juggle->Orochinagi combo.
IIRC he has the 98 Mu shiki as a LDM so that's great (If you perform the final taunt you get a free MAX mode as well)

Uh, dunno about MAX2, Kamakura is nice since it's a grab (Something Kyo is missing to surprise turtlers) but I'm not too fond of the damage, nor the attack itself... maybe I'll give him Kusanagi's MAX2 Mu shiki or something entirely original.

I could care less about his outfit, Classic, NESTS saga, 2K3, whatever.

[K.O.D]

Any new follow-up addition to the aragami/dokugami after '98 is plain overcomplication (except for the Oniyaki follow-up)

2k2's Kototsuki You, XI's Hikigane and the worst offender is NGBC/EX Kyo's new Dokugami (not Aragami) chain... well, let me just copy-paste it :

qcf+C                          115 Shiki: Dokugami          
 a1> hcb+C                     401 Shiki: Tsumi Yomi          
  a2> f+C                      402 Shiki: Batsu Yomi        
   a3> f,d,df+C                100 Shiki: Oniyaki          
OR
 b1> qcf+C                     114 Shiki: Aragami          
  b2> qcf+A                    128 Shiki: Konokizu          
   b3> qcf+K                   125 Shiki: Nanase          
    b4> hcb+C                  123 Shiki: Shaku En        

I always preferred Mu Shiki as a DM and SDM since Orochinagi is pretty much useless except for the free juggles case.

[S.D.]

What's so bad about the new Dokugami chain?
It's fine to have new Dokugami branches instead of just Aragami, besides the new Dokugami chain = nice damage + a free juggle attack.
In KOFXI's case, it can be a Oniyaki >Super Cancel first hit into 182 shiki -> Dream Cancel into Mu shiki, nothing is more rewarding than connecting that + the final taunt > Extra MAX mode cancels for Aragami>Dokugami loop (Instead of the same old Dokugami chain)

Plus the motion isn't really complicated...at least in my opinion.

[Anjel]

K.O.D's Kyo with more Aragami/Dokugami follow-ups, etc.

In KOFXI's case, it can be a Oniyaki >Super Cancel first hit into 182 shiki -> Dream Cancel into Mu shiki

You mean 524 Shiki: Kami Gomi. There is no Mu Shiki in XI.
Anyway. Yeah, that combo rocks.

EX Kyo.
Haven't won that char yet.

[K.O.D]

^ EX Kyo has Mu Shiki as LDM.

[Elix]

I'd keep his LK Kototsuki for juggling purpouses but definitely change the HK version, it tends to be rather useless (The only use I've seen for this is charging the powerbar)

Not enough range? Not enough "invincibility frames"?

[Anjel]

You mean the Hikigane?
Anyway.
The HK Hikigane isn't so useless. I like to corner opponent then Hard Shiki Kai (both kicks) then Hard Hikigane.

[Byakko]

Not enough range? Not enough "invincibility frames"?

You mean the Hikigane?

He said Kototsuki. so I assume he meant... Kototsuki Yō. The run-grab, you know.

[Elix]

[quote author=yakko link=topic=88474.msg765995#msg765995 date=1224613669]
He said Kototsuki. so I assume he meant... Kototsuki Yō. The run-grab, you know.
[/quote]
Yeah, I know. I don't see why it's useless though. The startup time is the same for both versions, only LK version runs around half a screen and stops (which is punishable), while HK version runs the whole screen.
I think Graham Aker meant Hikigane though:

...it tends to be rather useless (The only use I've seen for this is charging the powerbar)

Using HK Kototsuki You for for that is kinda suicidal, isn't it?

[Byakko]

Yeah, I know. I don't see why it's useless though. The startup time is the same for both versions, only WK version runs around half a screen and stops (which is punishable), while HK version runs the whole screen.

Here's my assumption :
HK runs through the whole screen at the same speed => it can be seen from a mile away and countered with a fingersnap, as it leaves you way too open for too long. So, the only useful usage of the move would be in combo / juggle, and WK version is just as useful since the opponent isn't going to be tossed far enough for you to need the HK and actually make it in time.
So basically, HK is pretty much the same as LK. Except that because it runs for a longer time, using it outside of a combo is, as you say, suicidal. So in the end, you could just as well have only the "short run" version. Or replace the HK version with something else altogether.

After checking, EX Kyo in XI does have Hikigane and not Kototsuki according to Gamefaqs, so you might be right afterall. (... did Kototsuki Yō completely disappear from XI ? I'd have thought at least one of the Kyos would have it...)

[Dr. H]

Mine would be XI's with 98's R.E.D. Kick and 88 Shiki (misses way too often now).
Kyo XI feels just right: fast, combo-happy and has a throw LDM for mind games, but with rather useless DMs (outside combos, that is), what's a good thing for balance.
Can't really play with Ex Kyo without feeling cheap.

[Anjel]

I asked if he meant Hikigane cause charging power with kotosuki you is just.... Yeah.....
And its the same command.

They should have keept the kotosuki you attack in the aragami chain. That one was epic.

[Elix]

[quote author=yakko link=topic=88474.msg766005#msg766005 date=1224615547]
Here's my assumption :
HK runs through the whole screen at the same speed => it can be seen from a mile away and countered with a fingersnap, as it leaves you way too open for too long. So, the only useful usage of the move would be in combo / juggle, and WK version is just as useful since the opponent isn't going to be tossed far enough for you to need the HK and actually make it in time.
So basically, HK is pretty much the same as LK. Except that because it runs for a longer time, using it outside of a combo is, as you say, suicidal. So in the end, you could just as well have only the "short run" version. Or replace the HK version with something else altogether.
[/quote]
Being able to run through the whole screen to the opponent with HK version doesn't mean you must use it when your opponent is a whole screen away. On the contrary, it looks dumb when Kyo starts to run with LK version and stops right in front of opponent's face (C'mon, trigger the attack, dammit!). But your opinion (as everyone else's) is considered.

[Bastard Mami]

[quote author=yakko link=topic=88474.msg766005#msg766005 date=1224615547]

Yeah, I know. I don't see why it's useless though. The startup time is the same for both versions, only WK version runs around half a screen and stops (which is punishable), while HK version runs the whole screen.

Here's my assumption :
HK runs through the whole screen at the same speed => it can be seen from a mile away and countered with a fingersnap, as it leaves you way too open for too long. So, the only useful usage of the move would be in combo / juggle, and WK version is just as useful since the opponent isn't going to be tossed far enough for you to need the HK and actually make it in time.
So basically, HK is pretty much the same as LK. Except that because it runs for a longer time, using it outside of a combo is, as you say, suicidal. So in the end, you could just as well have only the "short run" version. Or replace the HK version with something else altogether.

After checking, EX Kyo in XI does have Hikigane and not Kototsuki according to Gamefaqs, so you might be right afterall. (... did Kototsuki Yō completely disappear from XI ? I'd have thought at least one of the Kyos would have it...)
[/quote]

IIRC, I use the weak version on a blocked combo against slow oponents because they might want to punish you afterwards and you can get a DP or even the mushiki to hit them. for combos the strong version is preferred because the weak version sometimes misses.

[S.D.]

My bad Hikigane, not Kototsuki (I should've said HCB+K instead) 

Not enough range? Not enough "invincibility frames"?

Sorry but I still don't think it's that useful, there are far better attacks for close range (Aragami and Dokugami due autoguard) and antiair (Oniyaki, Orochinagi) situations, which HK Hikigane tries to cover.
I've be played in arcades and averyone that uses Kyo spams HK Hikigane after knocking down the opponent or when it's far away to charge the powerbar.

If anything LK Hikigane allows for an extra juggle, even after a 75 shiki kai (QCF+HK, K)

Oh and I don't like Yamibarai, dunno, I'm just not used to Kyo with a projectile, I prefer to stay aggressive, close to the opponent and rstrick his movement with pokes than try to pressure from a distance and pull a classic Yamibarai>opponent jump in>Oniyaki.
Then again, that's just me.

[Anjel]

A Kyo with Qcb+P that Yami Barai is fine. Not as Qcf though.
The only thing I use Hikigane for is to juggle after hard Shiki Kai.

[^^]

kof98's kyo