Posted by Jmorphman in MEPHISTO by RobsonMSH RELEASE!!! (Started by RobsonMSH July 06, 2020, 08:51:05 PM
Board: Edits & Add-ons
Board: Edits & Add-ons
Got some more palettes for Violent Ken, based on some of Classic Ken's palettes from II Turbo. I don't know what Violent Ken's alt colors look like in USFII, so I kinda just wingedthanks for the palettes!
Are you using those color separated sprites that let you sorta add a shirt?Nah, I never got a hold of those sprites in time.
You really should update these Midnight Bliss sprites, they aged horribly and look awful!You're being way to harsh to the guy who sprited them! The user that made them, what was his name... Haro? Or Hello? Maybe Heero? Oh, it was Hero. Well, he isn't even that active anymore so it's even ruder to say those things!
I didn't think of that with the throws, mainly because I thought SF3 Ken would have the kneegrab exclusively, but he doesn't have it at all o-o;In SFIII Ken has access to all three throws, and while theoretically that could be done even with the SFA3 style throw controls (Zangief has like 3 or 4 different throws he can do even in A3, for instance), I didn't want to complicate things for just one mode. And since Normal and Master modes already use the pair of Jigoku Gurama and Tsukami Nage as their throws, I wanted to balance things and have SFIII mode use the two throws that Violent mode used, the pair of Seoi Nage and Jigoku Gurama.
Ah well. On the note of the EX moves, while I do honestly understand that point, Shin Akuma didn't get EX moves cause he's Shin Akuma: He had a higher damage output, the double air hadoukens and higher speed to offset his tanked health, so Shin Akuma didn't really need EX moves. Once again, Violent Ken doesn't have most of that. More recent P.o.t.S-styled renditions of Evil Ryu have EX moves nowadays, as well, such as mwryly's Evil Ryu and it doesn't make him too much better in the sense of breaking him.Those aren't made by PotS, though. And certainly, if I were to have made those characters, I wouldn't have given them EX modes. That's my personal preference and it's the same reason I didn't give Violent Ken EX moves.
Edit: I'm only doing this again because these are characters you've specifically mentioned so now I have a proper frame of reference. Again, doing the spoiler only because it's four screenshots in 1280x960 resolution.None of them are using the correct health values. Both Orochi Iori and Evil Ryu have a health of 10600 in CvS2 (the standard amount of health is 14400). In MUGEN terms, they have a health value of 736 (Shin Akuma has it much worse, with the equivalent of a 451 life value in MUGEN). Because you can't modify the life constant without also using a different constant file, people have to use a defense modifier that causes the character to take more damage than they'd normally take (instead of simply having less life to work with). In this case, Evil Ryu should take 135.8% more damage than normal.
The characters on the ground in order of the screenshots taken are Warusaki's Evil Ryu, P.o.t.S Evil Ryu, P.o.t.S Shin Akuma and of course, your Violent Ken. Literally the only move I did was Asura's Saishuu Misogi, and compared the damage between the four characters. Not only does Violent Ken take more damage than Warusaki's Evil Ryu, who is based on CvS2 as you based his health off of that [though admittedly, I have no idea just how accurate Waru's Evil Ryu is to source] Violent Ken took considerably more damage than both P.o.t.S Evil Ryu and Shin Akuma, and he certainly doesn't have the same offsets to his low health and defense as the other two, especially Shin Akuma as I mentioned before. Even with everything you've mentioned before, it's all really just not enough to warrant such a massive blow to his defense like this, I'm sorry.
- About the issue regarding Violent Ken's poses, that only seems to happen in Survival mode, it seems. Winning or losing with him in Arcade mode has him using his proper animations, but in Survival mode it's still normal Ken's poses. Still could be a 1.1 goof, but still worth clarifying.I can only get it to happen in 1.1; I can only assume that Ken's var(40) (the mode change variable) never gets set during the survival results screen. Maybe it's skipping 5900, for some reason? Well, regardless, I suspect I can fix it by having like, different System.St files for each .def Ken has, but that just strikes me as wasteful; it's such a relatively minor issue that only happens in 1.1, so I'm can live with it cuz I don't use 1.1
- The other issue I mentioned with Violent Ken and Froz's M. Bison pose seems to be a thing on Violent Ken's side, even if it is just a bug with 1.1. I did a fresh install on Bison, didn't patch the intro and checked it out and the same issues still happened: Violent Ken gaining meter in Training mode while Bison didn't, the "Round 1: Fight!" message still popping up just as V. Ken howled. I know nothing about coding so I didn't know what to look for or anything else, so maybe pointing this out to you could be useful in the end.I guess 1.1 just doesn't like pauses during intros. The "round 1" stuff happens as soon as the pause ends—and given that the pause is pretty essential to the intro—there's probably no way of fixing it, short of removing the pause entirely. The meter stuff happens because Vega gets paused immediately, before Training Mode's meter gain kicks in; much like the round 1 bug, there's no way to avoid that without getting rid of the pause. And the pause is too central to the intro to remove.
And again, I know I must be really annoying with this, but I seriously hope you change your mind about Violent Ken taking such a hefty hit in his defense. So many times when I've lost with him outside of Survival mode, there's very rarely a time where I can see my losses as my own fault rather than the result of Violent Ken just having the staying power of an ant in a tornado, and no true tools to justify that fact. Rasetsukyaku still isn't too reliable because it just doesn't reach far enough. Even if you use it solely to dodge projectiles, unless you're a full screen away when you use it [which at that point, why would you use it when you could either parry the projectile, use the dodge mechanic or just meet it with a Hadouken of your own], you're just gonna end up right in front of the opponent and you're gonna get hit, since the invulnerability period is gone after V. Ken reappears. If you are still deadset on not raising his defense, at the very least give him some EX moves so he could at least have more means of damage dealing, even if they aren't the same as Ken's.He has the same life as Evil Ryu (in CvS2), and I'm pretty dead-set on that. And I really don't want to give him EX moves because PotS's Evil Ryu (and Akuma) don't have them either, and I like that they don't have EX moves. It makes them stand out as the unique alt modes they are.
Edit: One more thing I've been curious about: Ken and Violent Ken's air throws are the same. So why is Ken's mapped to punches while V. Ken's are to kicks? It's kind of unnecessarily confusion when switching back and forth imo.It's because their grounded version of the throw is on kicks and punches, for normal and Violent modes respectively. Normal Ken will do his rolling throw with punches on ground or in the air, and the same applies to Violent Ken and his rolling throw, but with kicks instead.
It's fairly difficult for me to try and link crouching MK into MK Geri. It's not impossible, but it's definitely not an easy link for me at least.I'm no CvS2 expert but my understanding is that crouch MK into LK Geri (MK Geri in CvS2 is garbage) is a standard combo for him; it's definitely not as easy as it would be if it was a QCF motion, but the added trickiness feels very Ken to me.
- Against certain characters, Kuzuryureppa can be blocked mid-move right as the Shinryuken portion is starting. I'm not sure if this is also one of those weird 1.1isms or not, but I notice it happening against Ikaruga's and Infinite's characters mainly.I forgot to change the hittime, fixed.
- I think it'd be cool if you gave Violent Ken his howl as a special winpose if you KO with Shinbu Messatsu. I know it's not what happens in source, but I think it'd look sick and go with the rest of the evil shotos, even if it isn't actually a Raging Demon.I'd probably just keep him hunched over but IDK if it would look great.
Classic Ken's Target Combo into MK Geri can go into his supers, unless I'm misreading what you're saying as far as that goes or if that's something you've already changed post-Beta. Even with all of that, it's not all that great to warrant such a massive wedge in his defense stat. I want to make this clear because even I feel like I've lost the point I'm making lol: I personally am not arguing against Violent Ken taking more damage in comparison to the other Kens, but the sheer level of extra damage he takes imo, is far too steep.Yeah, that's not really what I'm talking about at all. His Target Combo can lead to some very nice combos, but... those are all combos. And he needs to be up close in order to even use his target combo to begin with. I'm talking about how Violent Ken can uniquely convert one of Ken's best pokes (crouch MK) into a very damaging combo, even from the maximum distance it can possibly hit. Shinbu Messatsu is the only super that can still connect after HCF+MK at that range. That's one of the many reasons Shinbu Messatsu is so much better than Shonetsu Shinryuken.
Edit: Another thing to take into consideration is that you're very closely basing your Violent Ken on SvC: Chaos, where Ken in that game doesn't have the same tools your Ken does, and Violent Ken can also do one other thing yours can't do legitimately: With proper timing, you can hit the opponent with a Shinbu Messatsu right after a Kuzuryureppa in SvC: Chaos. Your Violent Ken can, too, due to how the moves work, but it's only possible in training mode or giving Violent Ken an additional two bars. No, I'm not asking you to do that =PSure, but he can still follow up Kuzuryureppa with Shinryuken for some completely unscaled, big damage! I think that sequence might just be the most damaging combo any mode of Ken can do, in fact.
It may be easier to combo into, if only due to the fact that after doing a Hadouken, you can just do D, DB, B, 2Punches with proper timing but with how limited V.Ken's mobility is without Rasetsu, getting in there to actually pull that move off is a challenge in of itself.Well, that's exactly the point. V.Ken's mobility is heavily based around Rasetsukyaku (as well as his dash/run to a lesser extent, since those act the same as normal mode), and it's why he's so strong in SVC. Shonetsu Shinryuken might do much more damage (though the beta version did way too much; I've since decreased the damage a fair amount because I did the original damage values when was toying with having it not have any real way to super cancel into it), but Shinbu Messatsu is much, much more useful because its outstanding range: if you can cancel into it, chances are, it will probably connect and do full damage. For example: Shinbu Messatsu makes one of his longest range pokes potentially very damaging (crouch MK -> HCF + MK) because it's the only thing in any mode of Ken that will be able to follow that, no matter at what range its performed.
Hmm... Maybe it's just me then. I was just testing him out. His Hadouken super cancels feel a bit more strict, along with the Geri super cancels. Prior to this update, I don't remember having any troubles with them. This mainly refers to cancelling into Shippu Jinrai from either one of them. I just did some practicing, and while I'll get it like 70-75% of the time, some times I won't get Shippu Jinrai at all. Mainly with Hadouken super cancels though. That feels more strict now.I dunno then, cuz those weren't changed at all from the old version of Ken; the cancel windows are identical. I'm not sure what could be causing this, and I honestly can't pull off the Hadoken -> Shippu cancel in the old version of Ken. The Hadoken to other supers cancel feels mostly the same but seems slightly less lenient than the new one (where it seems easier to pull off to me) too.
Edit: Something else I just noticed for all versions of Ken: MAX Shoryureppa and Shinryuken, as well as all Shippu Jinrai variants are zero frame supers. I'm not sure if that's intentional for all versions, since I'm sure Shippu Jinrai is zero frames in SF3, but I figured it's worth mentioning. I'd personally recommend changing that, since zero frame supers aren't particularly fun lol..Only the level one versions should. Level 2 and above have enough superpause that they'll hit people who haven't already started guarding yet (except for level one Shippu, that's just a hair too fast regardless);. But it seems to be a problem in my characters's guard code; other people are able to guard it correctly, I'll put out an update fixing it.
Edit 2: I know it's annoying for me to keep going on about this and it's how it's supposed to be, but I still think V. Ken shouldn't be taking so much damage. Evil Ryu in CvS2 still did more damage than Normal Ryu did I believe, so it makes sense why he takes bit more damage, even if he wasn't much faster.It's actually the opposite, in fact! Evil Ryu does around 7 damage less (100 damage less in CvS2) for most moves compared to Ryu. And he's not even faster (or slower) than normal Ryu, either!
Edit 3: Something feedback related not about V. Ken's defense or anything, I feel like the end of Shinbu Messatsu should be tweaked a bit, either sending the opponent flying back a bit more, have them be knocked into the air higher or shorten the time V. Ken needs to regain his composure. In certain circumstances, mainly using it in the corner or just certain characters being fast enough, they can actually hit Violent Ken while he's still breathing heavily, which technically makes the move unsafe even after it's successful.I think I forgot to adjust things when I extended the breathing animation.
I concur with this, but I won't stress the matter after this. His only real advantage over the other modes is Rasetsukyaku. Is Shibu really that much stronger than Shonetsu? It may be more reliable as a Lv3, because it's easier to combo into/a quick dash in super, but that's really it. I don't know why anyone would ever use the horrible air Tatsu as a mobility tool. He can run, dash, Rasetsukyaku, roll, short hop.... All of which are faster and safer options.Rasetsukyaku is really that good, and Shinbu is waaaaaaaaay easier to use and combo with than the level 3 Shinryuken, which is extremely situational.
It could possibly be a MUGEN 1.1 thing, then. I dunno if you're using 1.0 and that's why it's not happening to you, but ah well.I use 1.0, that might be it, but who knows. It wouldn't be happening at all if MUGEN didn't suck and had actual real pushboxes, though!
Back on topic, I don't have anything to say feedback wise about Classic Ken and SF3 Ken specifically. Generally, I feel like some command timings could use a bit more leeway and forgiveness so to speak, and the Geri kicks have a bit too much knockback to them, which makes the follow ups feel kind of pointless, but I didn't find any general bugs or anything major that really stood out to me with just those two.Looking over the Geri's again, just purely going by visuals, I think the pushback is probably a bit too much compared to CvS2. I'll have to make a more thorough comparison to find out if that is indeed the case, and if so, fix it.
- I feel likeI've remade the move and patterned it directly on SVC; it might not go as far as it did in the old version of Ken, but it's a lot faster and still astoundingly useful; it's pretty much the reason Violent Ken is considered way better than regular Ken in SVC, even despite the lowered health and weirder movement speed/jump arc.
NIGASANRasetsukyaku could use a bit more range or speed, it doesn't quite feel as good as it should if you have to rely on that for Violent Ken's mobility.
- On the note of Rasetsukyaku, I think the light variant is missing afterimages or the speed lines...something else that the other versions have. It's a bit hard to tell exactly what since it's so quick, but I can definitely tell it looks different.
Another thing I noticed, when you play as Violent Ken in Arcade Mode/Survival Mode, the "results screen" will have him do a Classic Ken pose. Rewinding a bit, I also forgot to mention the same goes for Kusanagi when he does a Kyo pose. Not sure if that's always a thing or because I'm using the separate DEFs, though.I just tried out both Kusanagi and Violent Ken, and they both do one of their correct winposes, regardless of whether it's with a separate .def or just the all-in-one .def. Maybe 1.1 screws this up, somehow?
And Tenuuzan is badass, how can you not like it!? D:It feels kinda redundant what with Orochinagi, and it's all a bit too obvious that it's SNK reusing existing sprites and working them into a new move after slapping new FX over it. All of the new Kyo-1/2 supers have that feeling to me, and I don't really like them that much.
Just tested and indeed, same thing here. I use 640 x 480 by the way. Tested on my 3 chars and is exactly like you mentioned. At first I thought it would be something with my chars but after testing more I noticed this happens with others too, like Jesuszilla's Felicia, PotS' Lei-Lei, and so on.I legit have not been able to get it to work with your Akuma or most of the other examples, except for Lei-Lei, weirdly enough. IDK what the hell is going on but who cares, I'll extend the hitbox a little bit to the right and call it a day.
So used to playing the older Ken, but there are parts of this new beta that are growing on me. I like that MAX Shinryuken is the one that gets mashed instead of the normal version for all the forms, and the attention to detail on SF3 Ken [I admittedly didn't play him with the older Ken]. I'm lamenting over the loss of Violent Ken's ability to use the Geri kicks, as well as the fact that the Shoryukens are CvS accurate, but you can still get some pretty raw damage with him otherwise. Can't wait for the official release.Level 1 Shinryuken still can be mashed, but all it does is add one hit, like in CvS2 (which seems kinda pointless but eh, whatever). Also, Violent Ken does still have the crazy kicks! The command's just been changed to HCF+K.
Also, I hate to kind of hijack the thread, but I do have some late feedback and suggestions for Kyo, mainly Kusanagi honestly. Of course, you don't need to take the suggestions into account if you don't want to.This isn't hijacking at all! Anyways, yeah that's intentional. The Kyo's EX rekka chain is patterned after the new, unique rekka chain Kyo had in NGBC/KOFXI (as EX Kyo), which had a finisher that cost meter (and thus felt like a good fit for an EX rekka chain).
- During Dokugami Kai, Normal Kyo uses EX Kyo's roundhouse variant of Nanase Kai, rather than his own dashing in kick. Not sure if this was intentional or not.
- Normal Kyo's Kamakura has a delay before the explosion, while EX Kyo's doesn't. Again, I'm not sure if this was done on purpose or not.The Kamakura stuff is intentional, as mentioned by Rowen. There's no envshake on any of the explosions but I guess I probably should add that, since it is in CvS2.
- On the note of the Kamakura explosion, it lacks envshake for both Kyos.
Kusanagi [Feedback]:I'm not getting the same behavior; both versions of the super connect all their hits, whether in the corner or out, on those specific versions of Demitri and Akuma. Maybe it's some weird issue relating to resolution? I'm not entirely sure what it could be. Perhaps redownloading it would fix the issue, but I'm pretty certain nothings been changed with that move since I put out the big update.
- Against certain characters, the final strike of either version of Kiri Homura will completely miss in the corner. The normal version will miss certain characters, like DeathScythe's R. Mika and Ingrid, while the MAX variant will miss his Akuma and even your Demitri, among other characters.
- Suggestion 1: This is just mainly for flavor and more Kyo-1 moves on Kusanagi, but did you think about giving him Kyo-1's Tenuuzan rather than keeping MAX Orochinagi? Both moves are functionally identical except with Tenuuzan, Kyo-1 isn't covered in flames and I think the punch restands the opponent? Don't quote me on that lol.I've thought about the new supers the Kyo clones got in 2002UM (for regular Kyo mode too, not just Kusanagi), but I don't really like any of them.
- Suggestion 2: Why not change the animation of EX Aoki to finish off with the Oniyaki like Kyo's Dokugami? The current version doesn't look bad honestly, just a tad awkward imo.I didn't want to make it too similar to the normal version's rekka, so I just added another hit.