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Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

 March 25, 2024, 12:33:05 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
 Board: Idea Engineering

So I've slept on it for a bit, and also done some experimentation. I tried altering Ryu so that his combo paths follow KoF XV's rules - any close normal chains into a command normal which then chains into a special move. I'm still not entirely sold on it, since it doesn't really feel "Capcom"-y despite the reasonings I gave. I might work on two versions with the different combo systems to see which one people prefer.

On a side note, here's some changes I'm thinking of making to the "Capcom"-style gameplay:
  • I'm dropping mediums. It feels really awkward to press LP or LK again to get the medium hit in a chain combo, especially when you're not able to use medium attacks in any other situation. I'll either just go for a simple L > H chain or do a Darkstalkers thing of LP > LK > HP > HK. We'll see how it goes.
  • To compensate for dropping mediums, I'll change how chaining into command moves and specials work. the current idea is that you can only chain into command normals from hard attacks, like HP or HK, but you can chain into any special move from a command as well as any normal. I might loosen that up so you can chain into command normals from any button.
  • Musing on the idea of Super Cancels. Obviously, that would only work in the case of going from a Level 1 to a Level 2, unless the cost of doing so was only one bar extra, so it might not be worth it.
  • Roll Cancells???

Stay tuned on both this and the thread in projects, I'll have an update soon-ish.
    

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

 March 24, 2024, 12:52:05 am View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
 Board: Idea Engineering

4. Embrace the grit and go in a direction more akin to Mortal Kombat. It’s pretty rare to see Capcom characters, especially non-SF ones, in a more MK-ish style.

This is absolutely not happening, no matter what. Just because a game has finishing moves and a slightly grittier tone, doesn't mean you have to go the MK route in any way, shape or form. I'm not having Ryu uppercut Batsu's head off or anything like that, because that is one hundred per cent not what Capcom characters do. And anyone who asks me for this again can go suck on a lemon.

Unless you happen to like lemons, in which case the whole thing falls apart, I guess.
    

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

 March 23, 2024, 05:36:54 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
 Board: Idea Engineering

Let me be blunt. I'm having a real bad crisis of faith when it comes to the gameplay of this.

The more I look at what I'm doing and the more I look at the original game, I'm starting to wonder if maybe Capcom Fighting All-Stars wasn't cancelled for a reason. Aside from the weird new characters, gritty tone and finishing moves, there's just... nothing there in terms of mechanics. No layers, no nuance, nothing that makes it look in any way engaging or fun. There aren't even any EX moves, one of the most basic features you can add into a fighting game. The entire thing looks just so bland, flat and lifeless. So I don't think it's any surprise that it got such a negative reaction and that it got cancelled.

And that's half of why I haven't been working on or talking about this for so long. I started this project with the intent of recreating and "modernising" the original game, trying to add actual mechanical depth to it. But even with what I've got right now, it still doesn't feel like enough, and I don't know what to do about it. I've got some vague ideas, but I don't want to commit to any one of them right now in case they don't work and I have to start from scratch again.
  • Do I stick with what I'm doing now, but add additional mechanics to try and make it more interesting? That would be the easiest way to do it, since I wouldn't have to change all that much, but I don't want to bloat the thing with too many weird mechanics that might just unbalance the whole thing.
  • Do I try and go for a more KoF-style, with more restrictions on combos and similar gameplay elements? Given the original game was being worked on by ex-SNK luminaries and was originally intended to be  Capcom vs SNK 3, that would make the most sense and be interesting to see. My main fear on that one is that Capcom purists probably wouldn't accept a KoF-style game with Capcom characters. yes, Capcom vs SNK 1 exists, but I don't remember a lot of people liking that.
  • Do I just throw up my hands and scream FUCK IT LET'S JUST DO ANOTHER MVC-STYLE GAME? Because as overdone as those are, I know those are the most popular because that's the definitive Capcom-style gameplay for most people.

I'm also horribly aware that my coding isn't going to be up to snuff compared to the veterans, so I'm going to need beta testers and other programmers to look over my stuff and tell me where I'm going wrong and what I can do. That idea's also scary as hell, since I'm such a novice and could be making hundreds of mistakes at any one time. But if anyone was willing to go through my characters and code with a fine-toothed comb to help me make them actually good and not cobbled-together pieces of shit, I'd appreciate it.

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say about it. Feel free to tell me I'm being a drama queen or whatever, I'm gonna go play Princess Peach Showtime to calm myself down.
    

Re: Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread)

 March 23, 2024, 04:51:57 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread) (Started by Steel Komodo February 18, 2024, 05:52:45 pm
 Board: Projects

Yeah, uh... nothing to report. Sorry.  I've been in a big slump for a while where I just don't want to do anything creative, and that includes working on this. And that's on top of reservations I have about the gameplay I'm working on. I'll say something more in the idea engineering thread, but consider this on hold for the time until I get my mood up again.

Huge apologies to all of you.
    

Re: Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread)

 March 10, 2024, 12:25:17 am View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread) (Started by Steel Komodo February 18, 2024, 05:52:45 pm
 Board: Projects

Sorry to be so quiet for so long. I did warn you all this was gonna be a SLOW WIP, but I didn't think it was gonna be this slow.



Not really that much to show here. Just the Dramatic Counter stuff, and also that the sprpriority on the hitsparks was changed. It's all WIP - and massively so. No effects, the hit sound on the crouching DC is wrong and Crouching DC is SUPER tricky to pull off. I'll need to look at the command and find out how to make it easier to pull off. Also, I'm using Ikemen GO for my testing

Sorry if this was kind of a letdown, but a lot of IRL shit was going off and keeping me distracted, so this is really all I got. Anyway, I'm gonna be quiet again for a while after this - I want to get all the hitboxes for the gethit animations consistent, then start adding special moves. I'll upload more progress after all that's been done.
    

Re: Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread)

 February 25, 2024, 03:35:23 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread) (Started by Steel Komodo February 18, 2024, 05:52:45 pm
 Board: Projects

Might as well whet your appetite with this preview video.



Not everything is in right now. I still need to add in some sounds and dust for running and dashing, maybe some new sound effects for the rolls, and that one hitspark for crouching medium punch needs serious fixing. But lemme explain briefly what's happening.
  • All characters follow a L > M > H basic chain. Mediums are accessed by pressing L a second time after the first L. So what you're seeing is actually something like LP > LP > HP, or LP > LK > HK. This applies to crouching normals as well.
  • Jumping normals are only Lights and Heavies, and don't chain.
  • Evasive dodge and roll exist to replicate the sidestep mechanic from the original game. I'm on the fence about including "roll cancelling" - cancelling the last few frames of a dodge roll into a special move to give it invincibility.
  • Throws are on C. If the opponent hits Throw within the first ten frames of the animation, they'll perform a throw escape.

The next update will be to add short hops as an alternate jump, enabling easier links from jumping attacks, as well as the Dramatic Counter system. Stay tuned for partial excitement!
    

Re: Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread)

 February 22, 2024, 12:26:23 am View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread) (Started by Steel Komodo February 18, 2024, 05:52:45 pm
 Board: Projects

QUICK UPDATE: All of Ryu's grounded moves are done. Will do all of his aerial moves and general hitbox/animation timing touchups before I find a way to record some footage for y'all.

...yeah, that's all I got so far. Sorry if this isn't really what you were expecting, but I did warn y'all this was gonna be a slow WIP. And thanks to IRL events, it might end up being a bit slower. I'll do my best to keep you all updated on progress in the future, but it's gonna be a long road, so try not to hold your breath or anything.
    

Re: Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread)

 February 19, 2024, 05:19:23 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread) (Started by Steel Komodo February 18, 2024, 05:52:45 pm
 Board: Projects

I don't know if the project is going to have a story behind, so in this case, I'd say going with the easiest(yet dumber) option: they've been abducted to another dimension, so Ingrid is searching for them/whatever. So you can center the efforts in the other fighters better.

Keep the good work!

So the plan (as of now) is to pretty much copy the story of the original Capcom Fighting All-Stars - bad guy threatens Metro City with strange device, assemblage of fighters gather to stop him. Obviously, since I'm looking to sort of "update" the original concept for modern sensibilities, this is going to be tweaked quite a bit as time goes on, but the base idea will still be there.

And thanks! I'm not sure when I'll have anything to show/beta test, but I'll definitely announce it in here when I do.

As much as I prefer Morrigan by a long shot, I'll give Demitri a fair shot and say that in Cross Edge, he was voiced by Richard Epcar, so while the Cross Edge voice rips aren't available anywhere, maybe you'll find fitting voices from another character Epcar voiced: https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/Richard-Epcar/

EDIT: Also, the Street Fighter wiki has some descriptions of D.D. and Rook's moves in those chara' pages, you can make movesets based on those.

I'll look into all that and see what I can do. Thanks for the references.
    

Re: Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread)

 February 19, 2024, 01:55:20 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread) (Started by Steel Komodo February 18, 2024, 05:52:45 pm
 Board: Projects

Lemme tackle these in no particular order.

In terms of swapping Demitri out for Morrigan, I think my main hang-up is that Demitri doesn't have any recent voice work in Japanese OR English that I can use. It might be a case of hiring somebody to do new voicework, as would be the case for Batsu, Ingrid, Rook, D.D. and Avel/Death. If that's not possible, then I'd probably switch to Morrigan - which, considering she's the bigger face of Darkstalkers at this point, wouldn't be too big a deal.

Basara's suggestions for D.D. and Rook's sprites do make sense and would be the quickest way to make those characters exist. My only concern would be spiriting new win poses and moves for them, because from what little I've seen they don't play a lot like those aforementioned characters. But compared to spriting a new character from whole cloth, it would be a much easier job overall. Who could we use for Avel/Death, while we're talking about it? Possibly Rugal?

Thanks for offering to beta test, RagingRowen. I'll be sure to hook you up once I make any progress. And yes, you're right in that I'm doing the basic combo strings in MvC2-style: After any LP or LK, pressing LP or LK again will result in a medium hit. Admittedly, this is a very experimental idea - if people don't jive with it, I'll turn it into something more simple, like an MVC:I-style LP > LK > HP > HK string.

Thanks for all the comments. I'll be sure to post in here again when I've made further progress on Ryu.
    

Re: Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread)

 February 18, 2024, 06:34:59 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread) (Started by Steel Komodo February 18, 2024, 05:52:45 pm
 Board: Projects

This is interesting, Im just curious to know what you will do for D.D., Rook and Avel

Most likely I'll pay for someone to make the sprites. But as far as I know, we don't have a lot of footage for them, or at least not very good quality footage. I may have to just invent new movelists whole cloth for them, since that might be easier on the whole than peering at crappy camera footage trying to discern what the hell is going on.
    

Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread)

 February 18, 2024, 05:52:45 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Rise of the Code Holders (Slow WIP Thread) (Started by Steel Komodo February 18, 2024, 05:52:45 pm
 Board: Projects

If anyone's been keeping track of the Idea Engineering thread, they'll have seen me talking about this a lot. I've already started work on a character now, so I think I might as well make it an official announcement.



What is this?
Essentially an attempt to "remake" the unreleased Capcom Fighting All-Stars: Code Holder in I.K.E.M.E.N. GO. The mechanics, tone and story will be examined and translated/updated for both the two-dimentional plane and for modern sensibilities. What has potential will be updated, what is good will be kept, what is bad or not possible will be thrown out.

Gameplay Rundown
  • 6-Button fighter. 2 Punches, 2 Kicks, Evade and Throw Button
  • Combos run on a L>M>H system derived from Rival Schools/Marvel vs Capcom 2/Early Darkstalkers. No air combos. Only one ground bounce, wall bounce and launcher per combo.
  • "Dramatic Counter" equivalent to a Zero Counter.
  • No air blocking (currently mulling this over).
  • Both dashing and runs - some characters will run, others will dash, others will have both.
  • EX Moves?
  • All characters will have a Level 1, Level 2 and Level 3 Super Combo.
  • "Dramatic Finish" finishing moves that require a full bar of meter and the enemy player to be on a quarter life left.
  • Stun meter derived from I.K.E.M.E.N.

Roster (TENTATIVE)
  • Ryu (Street Fighter) (CURRENT WIP)
  • Chun-Li (Street Fighter II)
  • Alex (Street Fighter III)
  • Charlie Nash (Street Fighter Alpha)
  • Mike Haggar (Final Fight)
  • Poison (Final Fight)
  • Batsu Ichimonji (Rival Schools)
  • Akira Kazama (Rival Schools)
  • Morrigan Aensland OR Demitri Maximoff (Darkstalkers)
  • Strider Hiryu (Strider)
  • Akuma (Street Fighter II) (Shin Akuma as secret boss)
  • Daisuke 'D.D.' Denjima (Capcom Fighting All-Stars)
  • Rook (Capcom Fighting All-Stars)
  • Ingrid (Capcom Fighting All-Stars)
  • Avel (Capcom Fighting All-Stars) (Alternate 'Death' form as Final Boss)
  • Kyo Kusanagi (Guest Character from King of Fighters)

Poss. Future Features
  • "Story Mode" for each character that delves into the narrative of the game.
  • Figure out how the hell netplay works so people can play online.
  • Four additional characters to bulk up the roster to 20 - Edward Falcon, Jedah Dohma, Maverick Hunter X and Fiona Belli.
  • Maaaaaybe a tag mode? Or, failing that, KOF-style "team" fights

Spoiler: Current WIP (click to see content)

Stay tuned for further updates, although this will be a VERY slow WIP and progress will take a long while for my own mental health.
    

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

 February 17, 2024, 09:50:51 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
 Board: Idea Engineering

Getting close to having a base I can work with. I'll post something in Projects when I start work on it. In the meantime, here's a small list of what I think some of the character's Dramatic Finish moves would be.

  • Chun-Li: Sichisei Senkukyaku
  • Charlie: Judgement Saber
  • Poison: Poison Kiss
  • Batsu: United By Fate (calls Hinata and Kyosuke)
  • Akira: Kyoso Kiko Kai or that Level 3 super KarmaChameleon's Akira uses
  • Demitri: Midnight Bliss
  • Akuma: Shun Goku Satsu/Tenchi Sokaigen
  • Kyo*: Ura 1212 Shiki - Yakumo
  • Strider Hiryu: Ragnarok

* Assuming Kyo is the guest character, I might change my mind on that one.

Feel free to throw more ideas at me for Dramatic Finishes, I'll keep them in mind while I work on characters.
    

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

 February 13, 2024, 11:06:14 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
 Board: Idea Engineering

    UPDATE:
    • Still working on the base real slow. It just hit me how much I have to do for this - sounds for dashing, sound effects for activating Super Moves, the Dramatic Finish, Dramatic Counters etc. A lot to do still!
    • Now I'm getting hung the fuck up on basic movement. Do I have characters run or dash? Do I split the difference and have a dash that goes into a run? But what if a character doesn't have a run animation? Do I just randomly decide based on the character and have a bunch of inconsistencies in the roster? Leaning towards dashes, but making them MvC or Darkstalkers-style long dashes.
    • Obviously, once I've made a base, I'll start working on a Ryu using that base. I have an older Ryu lying around that I can re-engineer for it, and as I build him up I can retroactively add whatever needs adding to the base, thus making future development a hell of a lot easier.

    Also, here's a tentative logo. Feel free to tell me if it sucks or not.

    [/list]
        

    Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

     February 04, 2024, 01:18:20 am View in topic context
     Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
     Board: Idea Engineering

    Shit, my reading comprehenshion's real bad this week. Huge apologies on that front. Should have realized we were on the same page the whole time. Yeah, that does sound pretty good.

    And yeah, an alpha counter might be the best way to go about it. Just call it Dramatic Counter instead and we're good lol.

    While I'm talking about gameplay stuff, here's some more specific thoughts I've been having.
    - If possible, I'd like to give characters certain traits that they had in more recent games. Ryu having his Denjin Renki, for instance, or Charlie having stuff from Street Fighter V. Come to think of it, his Critical Art from that game would make a good Dramatic Finish, wouldn't it?
    - Did the original CFAS have EX moves? I can't seem to find anything that says it did. I would include them if it did, but if not then I guess that's another way we're updating the game for modern standards :P
    - Giving thought to leveraging Ikemen's features, I would definitely want Avel and Akuma to be unlockable characters. Depending on how well the player does in the Arcade mode, they could also have the chance to face Shin Akuma or Death, my hypothetical final boss (essentially Avel but pissed off and on steroids).
    - Here's a weird thought when it comes to roster. The original game had this darker, grittier tone, right? What if, instead of a traditional Mega Man character, we had Maverick Hunter X from that cancelled FPS Mega Man game? It wouldn't be that outlandish, in my opinion - that game was also going for a darker tone, so it would make sense to put them together in some way. Would need a lot of extensive spriting, though.
    - Thinking about it, I might not go for air combos after all. I've playing the Rumble Fish recently, and it's given me confidence that you can make an interesting combo system without resorting to air combos like every MvC game and their dog. Obviously, I'd want to set in particular rules - only one pop-up/launcher, ground bounce and wall bounce per combo. But I think it can be done.
    - Thinking I might use English voices for this one. Characters who didn't have English voice actors up until now (Batsu, Demitri (depending on if I don't swap him for Morrigan), all the four Code Holder OCs) will need new voice actors, obviously.
    - That subtitle sucks. Might change it to either "Rise of the Code Holders" to be more clear about whom the protags of the game are, or "Countdown to Chaos" to tie in to the whole "stop the bomb" plot.

    Still working on a template, btw. Keep eyes peeled.
        

    Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

     February 02, 2024, 02:03:35 pm View in topic context
     Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
     Board: Idea Engineering

    Yeah, it really does look like I'm not listening to what anyone's saying, huh? Sorry about that.

    I don't think the air combos were an entirely weird idea since some other unorthodox capcom fighters had them (primarily rival schools) but I thought of them less like seanaltly air combos that are kinda just combo filler and more like a guilty gear dust move where you just pop the opponent up really high and start mashing buttons. I guess if you wanted to do some kind of weird "air combo" thing but didn't want to make the game super air-based there is the last impact from rage of the dragons which is... kinda like it but not really? It's more like a deadly rave type of thing where you have to input a sequence of buttons. Daniel's azufight plus characters have them. I don't know how useful it actually is in rotd itself.

    Honestly, I think the Rival Schools comparison is on point. Again, the main complaint I've heard about the original CFAS is that it didn't feel like a Capcom game - it played like weird, janky KoF or Tekken. I understand that it was developed by ex-SNK staff and they were going for something weird and different, but they went so weird and different it was a turn-off, and it's kind of amazing they didn't look at a similar game like Rival Schools, who's basic combo system was also unorthodox but still had that Capcom flavour to it.

    I've seen Last Impact in RoTD also, and tbh I really dunno what purpose it serves. If it was something like a counter-attack, it would make sense, but it doesn't seem like what I'd wanna go for. I think I might try not going without air combos at first, and if people demand it I'll try and do it Rival Schools style. That seems most fitting.

    Instant kills I did ramble a bit on, mainly the cinematic type of thing I did mention, but I would rather just have it be a proper finishing move instead of something you can just tease on the fly and sacrifice a full meter for whenever. I also feel like having it only be on match point rather than round 1 or whatever because it would feel like a more proper end to the match rather than a super abrupt fakeout, idk.

    I understand what you're saying here, but I think I have to disagree. I don't think I'm particularly fond of finishing moves being done MK-style, where it's literally just the thing you do after you've already won. I think it's more interesting to have finishing moves be something you work for as part of gameplay, because it feels more like a reward for playing well. MK's fatalities, gore content aside, feel more like an obligation than anything else. The original CFAS did it that way, too, and I think I was always planning to change that.

    You're definitely correct about them being a thing you should only do on the Match Point, though. That's a given - I wouldn't want people pulling them off with ease every match. I also agree, with hindsight, that spending an entire bar to use them would be super-detrimental. I'll think about it more when I actually start making my first character for this, but it's definitely an interesting dicussion.

    Also, I am 100% not going to do those insane commands from the original game. Those things are the devil's work.

    IKEMEN, or at least IKEMEN GO, should be easy to transition to since it does rely a lot on legacy mugen content. You can still code characters and stages with mugen's programming language, though I think cosmetics and some mechanical stuff use a different language called ZSS which is kinda like mugen's own but much more geared toward people familiar with more contemporary languages like C and python. Theres also a few game modes handled by lua like the kumite and boss rush modes but I have no idea how much of that would actually matter in the long run since we arent recreating everything about the original game in 2D.

    Thanks a bunch for this. I'm primarily looking into IKEMEN for online play - I definitely would want to have people play this online. Not sure about things like tag or Boss Rush - in my head, there'd only be like one or two boss characters overall, so it'd hardly be worth utilizing, and tag mode wouldn't probably work with the systems I'm musing over.

    Gonna start working on a base, I think, and then get a character on the boil for beta testing. It's probably the only way to test some of these features out. Also, I might post some mockups for logos/screenpack stuff in future as well. Watch this space.
        

    Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

     February 01, 2024, 04:18:06 pm View in topic context
     Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
     Board: Idea Engineering

    Okay, I'm back. Sorry to keep you all hanging.

    I wanna leave the roster alone for a minute, because that discussion's not really going anywhere for me. I wanna talk about some gameplay things I mentioned earlier, because I'd like to hear more input from y'all on them. I'll try and keep this truncated as much as I can since I know I tend to ramble a lot.
    • How do we feel about potentially having air combos? The original game didn't have them, and I'm leaning towards 'no', myself, but I'm kind of worried that the game will be a little boring if it doesn't have something. If I did, they'd probably be closer to something like Capcom vs The World or SHADES of Manhattan - not as over-the-top, very low-key and mostly combo filler.
    • I said right up top that we could use a CvS-style dodge or a V-Shift styled mechanic to approximate the Dramatic Counter. The truth is, though, I'm kind of stumped as to how to balance such a thing. Should we be spending meter to actually perform the counter hit? And what if not every character on our roster has animations for a dodge? Would it be better to just go for a Zero Counter-style thing instead?
    • Been pondering on the Dramatic Finish moves and how to balance them. My current idea is that you'd need three full bars of Super Gauge to perform them, the opponent has to be on low life and you'd need to perform a "break" move of some sort to get them to activate. Potentially we'd need to "prep" them the same way you prep Instant Kills in Guilty Gear, or maybe you can only activate them in the middle of a combo, like Killer Instinct's ultras.

    Lemme know what y'all think. Also, which engine would y'all think was best to make this in? I'm still a little curious about IKEMEN, but I'd need to know how hard it would be to transition from developing in MUGEN to this. Would I need to learn any new coding things before going in? Will Fighter Factory still work for me? Or will I have to get some other development tools to do it?
        

    Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

     January 31, 2024, 03:50:30 pm View in topic context
     Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
     Board: Idea Engineering

    Sorry to reply so late. Been dealing with some shitty IRL news, so I didn't have the chance to reply until now. I wanna give a bit of a blanket statement here, since I've had time to think about it over last night and this morning. I dunno if I'll address everything that's been said in here, but I hope it covers enough.

    I think SquidlyPoli1's actually right when they talk about reinterpreting characters for the setting. I said that at the beginning to try and reconcile, it my own head, how characters like Strider and Demitri were on the roster, and how the hell we could justify getting weirder roster picks in that would actually make the title Capcom Fighting All-Stars mean something. And honestly, this is something I've been thinking of walking back on.

    Let's be real with ourselves. It'd be far too much of a stretch to take somebody like, say, Mega Man and try to recontextualize them in the SF/FF/RS shared world. How would we justify him being a robot, or having the powers he has? I was initially turning over some weird ideas in my head based on the old Street Fighter X Tekken artwork, but on reflection it's probably not worth the effort if the end result is something like Bad Box Art Mega Man, who was so removed from the character it might as well have been somebody else. And while I did say earlier that it might be interesting to tie Strider Hiryu back to Zeku in SFV, again, there's always the risk that the end result might not be the character people know and love.

    Granted, this is a fangame and we can do what we like, but I think even the most liberal-minded person would find it hard to accept how far back we'd bend to make it work.  We can't really fundamentally change who these characters are just to serve the setting, or we might as well just make an original game at this point.

    I honestly think the best way to do it is the way something like Capcom vs SNK or KOF treats the characters outside of the main game setting. Think about Morrigan or Haohmaru being in CvS despite the game being mostly a Street Fighter/KoF-focused game, or the entirety of Team Another World in KoF XIV.  They're either fun bonus characters with no real story behind them, or they just happened to pop in from another world somehow and that's as much of an explanation as we get. Darkstalkers characters are easier to make work with the latter explanation, but we'd probably need to take the former explanation for something like Edward Falcon or (excuse me while I go to fantasy land for a minute) Pulsion from Tech Romancer.

    Miru962, I appreciate these ideas, but I think I'm gonna have to push back on a lot of them for the above reasons I just stated. I also do dig the sprite edits you've done, but if we go the route that I think we should go, then it'd be better to just use the sprites that beximus used for Capcom Universe. Because at this point, between these two factors, why would we even call the game Capcom Fighting All-Stars? I still want the game to resemble what the original game concept was in some way, and I think me straying from that too far would actually be a worse move.

    That said, I think there is still merit to updating the gameplay, story and presentation in some way. From what footage I've seen of the original arcade location tests, that game did not look fun at all and I don't blame audiences for turning on it :P. And I think there's better ways to have a more serious and grounded story for this without resorting to Shadow the Hedgehog-level 2000's edge, like nuclear fucking bombs. I know Basara-kun was looking for this to be a straight remake of the original, but there is some stuff we can update, surely?

    Sit tight, y'all. When I next post here, it'll be an even longer and more rambling spiel about gameplay concerns, and possibly what engine I'd want to develop this in.
        

    Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

     January 30, 2024, 06:20:34 pm View in topic context
     Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
     Board: Idea Engineering

    Basara-Kun: Thanks very much for commenting! Like I said before, there's a lot about the original game that I think needs updating for modern sensibilities, especially in terms of gameplay, and I'm not a huge fan of the early 2000's 'edgy' vibe to the story and presentation. But If I do ever find the time and energy to carry this out, I do want to bring over as much of the original intent of that concept as I can so that people understand where it came from and what it might be like to actually have had such a thing.

    Also, don't worry - I'm fully aware of those other games/compilations using that name. I might change the title of this effort to be somewhat different. Maybe something like Capcom Fighting Chaos, or Capcom Fighting Saga...? I'll workshop it.

    SquidlyPoli1 and Miru962, I'll respond to you both in a moment. Today's been kind of hectic and I haven't had much time to look on here and reply to people.
        

    Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

     January 29, 2024, 11:13:44 pm View in topic context
     Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
     Board: Idea Engineering

    Sure, go ahead. I'm interested to see what you come up with  :)
        

    Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread

     January 29, 2024, 11:21:01 am View in topic context
     Posted by Steel Komodo  in Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Started by Steel Komodo January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
     Board: Idea Engineering

    Gonna be blunt and say I didn't know anything about Strider's lore until you said it just now :P. In that case, I feel the only way to square that off would be to say that the Strider organization started by Zeku isn't the same one from the main Strider games. It's just that world's version of Strider, not the Strider, if you catch my drift. Same as what I was talking about with Edward Falcon earlier - it's not the Edward Falcon, but it is a version of Edward Falcon.

    ...did they ever explain how Fou Lu ended up in the Street Fighter world, by the way? I always assume it's portals until told otherwise.

    Also, I have to respectfully disagree on the subject of "fatalities". As I already stated in the first post, one of the things I don't like about the original concept is the weird, dark grungy tone that's reflected in the story and visuals. I'd like to try and move away from that as much as possible, and giving Capcom villains violent fatalities would be the opposite of that effort, in my opinion.