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Re: Garou— Backend updates (1.1)

 December 26, 2023, 12:52:18 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Belated Merry Christmas. Had a mixed year and I spent most of it focused on trying to reconfigure my career, so I ended up not thinking about working on Blue Mary. She's actually almost done, I just need to finish adding sounds.

Anyway, this update is just to say I added the Garou- characters so far to the website, as opposed to just forcing people to find this thread for the link. I've been working on a new, non-Mugen STG project the last few months, and I want to get a demo build out by the end of the year, but in January I'm going to set out to finish Mary up.

I'm mixed on the future because I have to rework some code for IKEMEN, but I still have plenty of ideas for characters, and I have SFFs for Gato and Hotaru already compiled. Gato will be basically the same as my old conversion, but Hotaru will probably take some time to think through, especially since I play her and I've now put more time into MotW than any other fatal fury, even my favorite, 3.
    

Re: HORI Fighting Stick Mini 4 or Hori Fighting Commander Octa Designed for Xbox Ser

 December 17, 2022, 09:05:03 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in HORI Fighting Stick Mini 4 or Hori Fighting Commander Octa Designed for Xbox Ser (Started by kamui 2.0 December 16, 2022, 04:21:29 pm
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion

Drone is good, can't go wrong there.
If you still weren't sure, most commercial sticks will work with mugen because it picks up the joystick inputs as a USB style controller.
    

Re: Garou— Backend updates (1.1)

 December 13, 2022, 04:30:11 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Updated backend for everyone with some of the latest stuff I've been tinkering with, nothing big. Other than that I caught some stuff I overlooked in Tung for SFX but that's it.

Working on some other ideas that might flesh out Escalation mode, so we'll probably will see some changes to Tung in the future to coincide with it. Shion is a closed book, and I'm starting to think Tizoc is not working out the way I liked just due to the resources I have available, so I can't say if I'll do anything more to update him along with any other characters.
    

Re: Garou— Tizoc (1.1)

 December 01, 2022, 12:33:36 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Batch of system updates for Shion and Tung, adding some moves and mechanics to flesh everything out a bit more. All of these apply to Tizoc but he needs more work, so he is not being updated.

Quick sway now can be followed up with A to perform a quick sway attack as in FF3. Added normal throws to forward, and assigned redirect to back.
New custom states/gethits added for strong moves in the air so they have a more standardized set of rules to them (though Shion is a bit unorthodox and it doesn't really apply there). I'll probably do some more custom gethit work in the future, right now I'm just working with the Mugen standard and haven't really edited a lot of the common yet.

As I'm working with everything I want to shift the overall system design to reflect fatal fury 3 a bit more, changing the game pace by making all the super jumps escalation mode only, which might give more differentiation between HEAT and ESC decision making.

As for bug fixes I think I solved the overheat during custom states issue, so hopefully that doesn't pop up again.

Spoiler: 11/30/22 (click to see content)
    

Re: Garou— Tizoc (1.1)

 November 16, 2022, 01:42:37 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

I think I found the issue with the 1A pushback in a hitdef typo :p

Made some changes to j.C as well. Made some edits to the backend for Heat gain and I did some realignment in all the SFFs for Blue Mary's grapples, so everyone has been updated.

Tizoc seems a bit more solid now/ I'll cover any bug fixes in the future, but I think it ended up being enough for a 1.0 release. Everything, as always, is a work in progress, especially as I keep working with different styles of characters and have to tweak the overall mechanics to fit a broader group of character.

Spoiler: TIZOC (click to see content)

Spoiler: General (click to see content)
    

Re: Garou— Tizoc [BETA-ish](1.1)

 November 08, 2022, 01:18:49 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

I think there might be some issues with the pushback code for 1A, it shouldn't be friction but he's not pushing back at a distance equal to the ground vel x. The break direction was weird because it depended on what frame you inputted it, a simple facep2=0 should fix it.

As for everything else, I didn't failsafe the clean hit tight enough, it should only happen on movehit now. That issue with lows being mids was in everyone since I wasn't sure how I wanted to work with them as some look like mids but I gave low to the ones that looks like they can't be blocked high.

The overheat bugs are actually unknown to me. You should only enter the overheat state from the get up, so I'm not sure how it forced it in the air. I'll probably chalk that up to 1A. I couldn't recreate issues with redirect or command grabs when tested on Tung and Shion, and I have it as movetype=I, not H, in the states so the any hitdef flags that prevent grabbing targets in hitstate shouldn't apply, and I don't edit those universal hitboxes between characters, so I can't say what that is yet.

Spoiler: Shion (click to see content)
Spoiler: Tung (click to see content)
Spoiler: Tizoc (click to see content)

Spoiler: GENERAL (click to see content)
    

Re: Garou— Tizoc [BETA-ish](1.1)

 November 06, 2022, 01:03:22 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Hotfix covering a typo I made in Tizoc as well as a major change to input delay in the custom buffer that should make it easier to input faster with stick and other non keyboard controllers
Spoiler: TIZOC (click to see content)

Spoiler: GENERAL (click to see content)

Also remembered mega lets you download folders as zip, so I stopped uploading zipped folders to make it easier to just patch the backend without reuploading everything all the time.
    

Re: Garou— Tizoc [BETA-ish](1.1)

 November 05, 2022, 05:09:46 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Fixes for a majority of the feedback aside from some additional buffer stuff/break move commands since I might workshop it a bit more. Massive revamp to a lot of the backend so every character has been updated.

I gave color select proper mirror code so you can't pick the same color, made some changes to the buffer so it now holds the direction until you let go, and modified the JD inputs to be a bit tighter in the process so you don't just get a free JD whenever you press back like before. I removed some helper sctrls while I mess around with the FX again. I started getting a better feel for how to use it with Tizoc so I need to rework the older code.

Spoiler: TIZOC (click to see content)
Spoiler: GENERAL (click to see content)
    

Re: Effective method for crossup protection?

 November 04, 2022, 10:24:24 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Effective method for crossup protection? (Started by Bannana November 04, 2022, 10:49:04 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Development Help

I set it as movetype = I just to isolate where the crossup happens when I'm working manually without a recorded dummy. The extra ambiguity just lets me test more situations where a double jump or maybe short airdash into a highly active normal could occur, and the proximity block with active from the start is harder to setup these situations without setting up a recorded dummy.


offset sounds messy but perhaps you could set up a check specifically where if the game recognizes a combination of "enemy,facing=facing" and "p2bodydist" the offset can be shifted for a frame or two just prevent the turn. Now if you could make the hitflag true but invalid as to end up 100% blockable if they were already inguardist and in states =[120,150] that also could deal with the problem of the autoturn robbing the defender of holding back.

I was interested in moving to ikemen eventually, so noautoturn would probably solve the issue.


    

Effective method for crossup protection?

 November 04, 2022, 10:49:04 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Effective method for crossup protection? (Started by Bannana November 04, 2022, 10:49:04 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Development Help

Was discussed in this thread years ago but that solution seems contained to a character who uses a helper in a way similar to how people code armor. Maybe it's more a question about "wrong way blocking" for the opponent.

I'm interested in a problem where an air move, even though it crosses up, would not cause the opponent to turn and face the attacker. If they turn, the facing switch flips the inputs and causes them to hold forward and get hit, but in a game with passable crossup protection the opponent won't be turned around until the air move ends and they can still block in the direction they were initially holding until the opponent lands, after which they turn and have to switch directions to continue blocking.

An example, movetype here is Idle until animelem 4, then it becomes Active, so as you crossup the proximity guard and facing causes the character to flip around and be open to being hit instead of being given the benefit of a "wrong way block" for crossup protection.

I supposed you could mess with width and guarddist, but I'm not sure if that could cause other issues with collisions and characters passing through each other? Maybe reducing width only when they're on the ground and resetting it if they jump?

Has anyone really addressed this problem with how this is hardcoded for universal use? It's possible in a closed environment using the first linked method, but I do like to aim for universality in most situations.
    

Re: Garou— Tizoc [BETA-ish](1.1)

 November 03, 2022, 07:07:17 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Just what I was expecting :p

general said:
- After Just Defend, holding UB or UF should probably be the same as holding, B, F *or* U instead of doing nothing
- There could be a visual indication of counter hits since they have special properties
- First frame after Redirect is unblockable. Just checking if it's intentional
- Heat Blow should probably have kill = 0
- Can't use HCB after walking forward, or HCF after walking back
- Corner pushback is a bit higher than in the middle of the screen
- That's probably fair gameplay wise
- There is on the bottom bar, but stylistically it's not very obvious There should be one on the bottom bar, but I think it was lost in a test build somewhere
- This might be an issue with the recovery time being shorter on this character vs the others, might need to tweak it for that.
- This is something I was debating a bit too, I wasn't sure if I wanted it to kill or not considering the low damage and it being a get out of jail free card
- Definitely a buffer bug, need to look into that a bit
- I'll reexamine this, I was attempting to follow some SNK games in how the distance is applied but it might end up being too much in practice.

definitely not noticed/overlooked said:
- First frame after landing Icarus Crash still has the angle set from the previous time you used it
- Hercules Throw(s) act weird if the stage has zooming
- AH, I was too focused on the rotations I must have lost track of this
- I tend to not use zoom myself so I missed this, I'll apply a screenbound

helper stuff said:
- I think creating half a dozen helpers for jumping effects is overkill
- Your hitspark code lets sparks appear behind the target. 5B is a good example. I think you should limit their root distance according to the position of P2
- You could also destroy them as soon as the hitdef is disabled or the char enters movetype = I, for CPU's sake
- The input display is really nice. I noticed that if you hold two directions, then release one, it will still display as being held. You can get all 4 to display as being held this way
- I agree, that's a bit of a hold over from earlier builds that I haven't yet really removed yet since I just made the first build of the FX system as a backbone.
- Yeah it pulls an offset I assign in my backend
Code:
pos = (root,var(50)),(root,var(51))
and the idea was that it meant to function in the same way the hitdef pos parameters work, but it's perhaps too rigid in conception. As for the removal, that's a good idea, I have them being killed based on an average time of 30 ticks. Perhaps I could code the fade to occur faster depending on the time between the active and idle.
- Yeah I noticed this bug last build but I hadn't quite discovered the cause yet it's just a directional overlap

Quote
- Turns intro stalls the game
As for this I forgot about turns mode entirely, I use the standard mugen intro code so I guess I should recheck kfm
---It's that I didn't think about turns so there's an assert special for intro


Thanks for all the feedback, I'll get a new build with some pressing fixes out in a few days or so, but some stuff like that buffer issue with walking might take some more time.
    

Re: Garou— Tizoc [BETA-ish](1.1)

 November 02, 2022, 08:31:02 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Tizoc out on a beta build because I noticed some grab bugs with AI that really bother me. Everyone else updated with the backend, some good essential updates fixing some hitdef bugs and the color select text ending up everywhere.

Spoiler: 11/1/22 (click to see content)
    

Re: Garou— Tung Fu Rue (1.1)

 October 18, 2022, 11:50:15 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

I should have expected that the CH flag and the p2statetype !=H would clash.

fixed for both shion and tung
    

Re: Garou— Tung Fu Rue (1.1)

 August 23, 2022, 04:42:30 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

normal 236C doesn't have any unique property, and that's intentional because it's like a blowback, so only heat 236C has the crumple on clean hit

Spoiler: 8/22/12 (click to see content)
    

Re: What was the first character you downloaded for MUGEN?

 August 19, 2022, 03:41:34 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in What was the first character you downloaded for MUGEN? (Started by Mr. Nobody August 06, 2022, 02:07:34 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion

I'm pretty sure it was one of Thomas Hsieh's joke characters alongside some of the more popular youtube mugen characters
    

Re: Garou— Tung Fu Rue (1.1)

 August 19, 2022, 03:38:52 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Both characters updated to deal with this CH bug in the backend and fixed some slight oversights in Tung, just winquotes and some slight animation changes for guarding

Spoiler: 8/18/22 (click to see content)
    

Re: Garou— Tung Fu Rue (1.1)

 August 17, 2022, 11:49:59 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

huh, that's a weird backend bug, I wonder if something was overwritten somewhere while I was recoding the counter hit decision code

This is really strange, I can't seem to recreate it, the counterhit works properly every time, maybe it has something to do with you using the dodge prior to that.


AH it's the startup of the senshippo, it might be the state between stand and air
    

Re: Garou— Tung Fu Rue (1.1)

 August 17, 2022, 05:49:17 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Tung released. Feels pretty stable, but can never be totally sure

Shion updated with latest system mechanics
Spoiler: 8/16/22 (click to see content)

Might end up changing certain backend in the future because I'm not too happy with the friction and overall "slipperiness"


will start compiling Tizoc next as I fix any issues with Tung.
    

Re: Different KOF mechanics

 August 10, 2022, 07:42:12 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Different KOF mechanics (Started by NikoPalad67140 August 09, 2022, 07:21:33 pm
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Development Help

MAX is a bit complex to explain simply because it uses a bunch of variables, but looking at any kof creator's work can show you how they coded it. Vans' work is open source (as long as you credit for the sections you use) if your interest was 2002 style MAX.


As for hop, I use this style drawn from Kn and GM for garou but it should work for kof

In state 40 in the common you have the standard change state
Code:
[State 40]
type = ChangeState
trigger1 = AnimTime = 0
value = 50
ctrl = 1

what you want to do is identify a difference if they tapped up, or if it's held, so you throw a "holdup" into the cmd so it recognizes it beind held down, and you add this to your state 40, which represents the standard jump
Code:
[State 40]
type = ChangeState
triggerall = AnimTime = 0
triggerall = command = "holdup"
value = 50
ctrl = 1

With this you have these two options, the tapped jump, and the held jump
50 is your standard jump state, 41 is my hop, but you can use any number you want
Code:
[State 40]
type = ChangeState
trigger1 = AnimTime = 0
value = 41
ctrl = 1

[State 40]
type = ChangeState
triggerall = AnimTime = 0
triggerall = command = "holdup"
value = 50
ctrl = 1

You can just copy over state 50, renumber it how you want, and make some y vel change like this to make it like a hop
Code:
[State 0, VelSet]
type = VelSet
trigger1 = time = 0
y = const(velocity.jump.y)*.67
    

Re: Shion (1.1)

 August 03, 2022, 07:53:11 am View in topic context
 Posted by Bannana  in Garou— Backend updates (1.1) (Started by Bannana July 18, 2022, 03:55:43 am
 Board: Your Releases, 1.0+

Some slight modifications following that typo bug fix

This features the final mechanic for the heat bar that I didn't want to add until I had the fundamental system figured out. This is mostly because this is a universal mechanic that is the opposite of how you code guard crush for mugen-- having it placed upon your opponent and not upon yourself--so I didn't really want it to be in an open setting. I added it to the config as a toggle option because that's the best way around the issue.

Information will be in the main mechanics in the first post, but a quick summary is that if the heat bar is drained you get put into a dizzy state on either hit or wakeup from knockdown until the bar fills back to the halfway resting point, which is the standard way it works in Wild Ambition. I also decided it could act as a guard crush, but that is more experimental because I'm not sure how it might be abused yet.

I also altered hitpause times a bit
Spoiler: 8/2/22 (click to see content)