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Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements (Read 1957 times)

Started by Ziltoid, August 29, 2020, 03:06:50 PM
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Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
New #1  August 29, 2020, 03:06:50 PM
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Next parts:

Part 2: Run, Dash, Evade, Power Charge, Zero Counter, Parry

Part 3: Custom Combo, Recovery, Guard

Part 4: Lose and Intro animations

Part 5: Constants, Win animations, Taunts

Part 6: Universal Helpers


Part 1: Basic Movements

This might be my greatest idea ever, or a recipe for complete disaster.

Ok, what is going on here?
I spent the lockdown editing some P.o.t.S styled characters for my build. This led me to study the codes a bit more deeply, and soon I noticed the heterogeneity in the basics. While the fact that every creator can express himself is in itself the true beauty of Mugen, I grew a bit frustrated. I wanted a personal build with a roster of similar-styled characters, to have the feeling of an actual game.

While I love the overall P.o.t.S style, there's a lot of sub-styles with some slight core differences. I decided that Jmorphman's style (which is in turn emulated by others) is what suits best my tastes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that DW and Infinite's styles are inferior, it's just a matter of personal tastes.

So, I'm gonna use some of his (and Knuckles8864, Deathschyte and KarmaChameleon) characters as a reference to re-create some characters. I'm gonna do P.o.t.S's old Ryu. Hopefully I won't get overwhelmed and finish this.

What I'm trying to accomplish?
This will not be a guide, nor a "true" explanation of sorts. This will be a log of my progresses while I'm actively trying to learn how to make a character in this style (that's why there's "Diary" and not "Guide" in the title). Really, it is best described as a "dissection".

Hopefully, this project will attract (A) some people that, like me, want to learn and can benefit from my references and (B) some of the more experienced creators, including the ones I mentioned, that can give me feedback and corrections if I do/post bullshit. I hope this will become an interactive experience, and as such I take the liberty to edit this whenever I want based on feedbacks. And if I don't get any I'll still continue, I'm doing this for myself after all.

What I'm NOT trying to accomplish?
The end result won't be a template in which people (myself included) will just slap some sprites and say "hEY gUys cHecK ThiS PieCe-Of-tHE-sHiT stYLe cHarACteR I MadE huRr DuRR". Again, this will be the diary of a learning experience, hopefully.


Final disclaimer: from now on, just assume I'm saying "I might be wrong, though" at the end of every sentence. Ok, let's get started.


STANDING
Let's start easy, shall we? I know I should be making the .def and Constants.cns files first, but we'll get there, trust me.

Nothing too fancy here, the reference code is pretty much unchanged from the original PotS Ryu. The statedef is 0. This is the code I'll be putting:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

As far as I understand, this block of code does nothing more than setting the animation for the stance (0) and changing it for when the character turns (5) or is dead (statedef = 5050).

Now, something fun. One of the reasons I chose Ryu is because the original has multiple modes (var(1)), and I'll be giving him a stance for every mode: Normal and Evil Ryu. The original has a Master mode, but I don't want an overpowered version, plus his stance sucked. Seriosly, who fights with folded arms? Except Frieza, maybe...

Instead, I'll be giving him a tentatively SFIII reminiscent version, with an unused stance. I don't know yet what the differences will be, probably I'll give him the Jouen side kick special and Denjin Hadouken. I'm open to suggestions.
Edit: after a bit of brainstormin I decided that this Ryu will only have two modes, for two main reasons: (1) the SFIII stance actually kinda sucks, and (2) the only reason I can think of for giving him such a variation is to give him the Denjin. So yeah. I'm editing out any reference to a SFIII variation, if you see any it's because I forgot, ignore it.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Something worthy of note: the original version of Ryu had Evil Ryu's stance as anim 1. More recent characters, including Jmorphman's, use the anim 1 as a blank for invisible helpers, so I'll be putting the stance at 2. The first time I tried to mess with this character I wasn't aware of this, so I had a lot of little Evil Ryus on screen.

Now, about the modes themselves: the character mode is decided by the var(1). Var(1) = 1 means Normal Ryu, var(1) = 2 means Evil Ryu. As such, anything that has, for example, a "var(1) = 2" on the triggers only works with Evil Ryu.
Looking at the code above, we can see how for each var(1) there's a different stance. For now I'll leave this like that, but I'll need to put the VarSet for it under the Statedef 5900 later, to decide how the modes will be chosen.

In case you're wondering, I'm not using the value = 0 because P.o.t.S didn't, and if I have to replace the values I'll probably mess up somewhere (which I already did but I edited out my mess before anyone could notice).
Also, most modern characters use var(40) for this purpose, but I won't be changing that for one simple reason: this is used in other character's codes to decide stuff such as the winquotes against him or Evil Ryu, intro interactions and so forth. If I change it now, I need to patch every single character that has any kind of interaction with Ryu, including winquotes. And since it's Ryu we're talking about, this means pretty much every Capcom character.

Before continuing, we need some more animations: the aforementioned blank at 1, and the turning and crouch turning animations at 5 and 6. These last two are always needed, or the character will crash.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty


CROUCHING
Again, these codes are mostly shared between the original and the reference characters, so I'm leaving this as that. Not much to analyze, it's pretty intuitive what these codes are.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

There's nothing much to customize here. At this point, you need to have the anims 10 (stand to crouch), 11 (crouch), and 12 (crouch to stand). Just keep in mind that these values are for the source Ryu and, unless stated, unchanged. Of course, if you're making your character from zero you need to make your own animations, which I'll probably do for future projects. Please, if you're using this post as a reference, don't just copypaste animations.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty


WALKING
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, right?

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Animations we need: 20 and 21.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty


JUMPING
This will get a little trickier. Here's where the reference codes start to deviate from P.o.t.S's old codes.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

For some reason, the patched version of Ryu by Jmorphman used a var(9) instead, but I don't think there's any true difference.


The next statedefs are MUCH different on the old Ryu, but are pretty much unchanged between Jmorphman's characters. Since these are mostly to dictate how the landing and the switch between states behave, I'm positive I can just replace the old ones with these. I hope I won't regret this lazy decision.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

As far as I understand, you can put some additional VelAdds to customize a bit the jumps, which is neat if you're editing floaty characters such as, say, Dhalsim.

Jmoprhman's Chun-Li, for example, has this on both statedef 50 and 51:


EDIT: as KarmaChameleon pointed out, this VelAdd is specific for CvS2 accurate characters. Since I'm going in that direction, I'll be adding it.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

That being said, here's some anims we need to be sure to have:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Note: the anim 57 was NOT in the original Ryu. It's identical to 47, so I created it by just duplicating it.


And with this, I'll call it a day. Next time, I'll tackle the run, dashes, and maybe the dodges. Hope this series of posts can be useful to someone, and that can be the chance for me to learn something. Before leaving, I'll tackle some questions you may or may not want to ask.

Who the hell are you, and who do you think you are?
I'm just a guy trying to learn how to make characters. I'm also slightly obsessive-compulsive, that's why I'm unhappy with having a bunch of characters with different playstyles thrown together in a build. I'd rather have less characters that actually feel they belong to the same "game", with differences due to the character themselves instead of the coding.

Why don't you buy yourself an actual game then?
Boring.

Ok then, but why Ryu? The original version is perfect, and already set the standard.
The standard evolved a bit since P.o.t.S., and precisely because Ryu set the standards he wasn't touched much. Plus, he has pretty much everything I want to learn about without being too complex, so it's a starting point.

Will you release the final result?
If it doesn't suck. Which I can't guarantee.

When's the next part?
When I feel like it.

Don't you have anything better to do?
I'm an overstressed phd student, Mugen is one of my few ways to relax and deal with stress and anxiety, plus it gives vent to my obsessive compulsions by allowing me to "construct" games. But yeah, I promise I'll begin meditating and exercising again soon. Thanks for asking.

Who's the lizard on your avatar?
Ziltoid the Omniscient! If you're into metal and/or weird music, give Devin Townsend a listen.


Next parts:

Part 2: Run, Dash, Evade, Power Charge, Zero Counter, Parry

Part 3: Custom Combo, Recovery, Guard

Part 4: Lose and Intro animations

Part 5: Constants, Win animations, Taunts

Part 6: Universal Helpers

Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 07:36:29 PM by Ziltoid
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#2  August 29, 2020, 03:20:31 PM
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Nothing too fancy here, the reference code is pretty much unchanged from the original PotS Ryu. The statedef is 0, and unless you're doing this with some obscure character made by some madman living on a mountain, is always the same. This is the code I'll be putting

I don't mean to sound rude, but I think you should refrain from such statements.
MUGEN.NET: the developer-focused community.

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Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#3  August 29, 2020, 03:24:53 PM
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Ouch, I was just trying to be funny but I see your point. You’re right. I’ll remove that.
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#4  August 29, 2020, 03:29:12 PM
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OK, here is a small tip for your begining: in P-Style to create different modes usually used var(40), not var(1). Check the same Jmorphman's characters. If I'll notice something else worth mentioning I'll edit this message.
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#5  August 29, 2020, 03:43:32 PM
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Man, I liked VERY much of this and I have same opinion about POTS chars. I'm a obsessive-compulsive person too. Continue with this, PLEASE. I want see your progress.
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#6  August 29, 2020, 03:58:47 PM
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OK, here is a small tip for your begining: in P-Style to create different modes usually used var(40), not var(1). Check the same Jmorphman's characters. If I'll notice something else worth mentioning I'll edit this message.

Actually I did notice the var(40) in some characters. I'm wondering if I should change it for continuity's sake (EDIT: I did it). Please feel free to mention anything you want!

Man, I liked VERY much of this and I have same opinion about POTS chars. I'm a obsessive-compulsive person too. Continue with this, PLEASE. I want see your progress.

Thanks, this is very motivating! Feel free to contribute an any way you want!
Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 04:14:03 PM by Ziltoid

Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#7  August 29, 2020, 04:10:09 PM
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Actually I did notice the var(40) in some characters. I'm wondering if I should change it for continuity's sake. Please feel free to mention anything you want!

Yes, I was going to mention the same thing. If you use any modern PotS char to take reference or use as a template, they all use var(40).

All I have to say is good luck, is always nice to see someone trying out this style. And since you mentioned me, I also want to say that you can use anything from my chars, if you want. ;D
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#8  August 29, 2020, 04:59:38 PM
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Yes, I was going to mention the same thing. If you use any modern PotS char to take reference or use as a template, they all use var(40).

All I have to say is good luck, is always nice to see someone trying out this style. And since you mentioned me, I also want to say that you can use anything from my chars, if you want. ;D

Thank you for your words, having the support of the very people I'm trying to emulate is heartwarming! And yes, I will! Is there any character of yours you want to suggest, that you feel like can fit as references?

About the var(40), I changed it. If I want to recreate something, better do it all the way.
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#9  August 29, 2020, 05:06:11 PM
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This is a very nice initiative. I thought about making an in-depth interactive tutorial on how to emulate Jmorphman, but having the perspective of someone that doesn't know most of the answers from the get go is actually way more useful for people that want to start off.

I'd like to say something, though. I know that I'll sound like a cunt because this is a form of criticism that I bring up every time this kind of conversation happens, but for good character coding you need to understand the character you want to make first. Prep yourself by playing a lot of source before jumping into coding. Even tho I didn't main some of the characters I coded (Terry, Yun) I played them across the games for about a week so I could get a grasp of what were their strengths and weaknesses. I honestly like to think that understanding the characters its what sets myself apart of some of the other clones. It's also something crucial in order to know what feedback you should listen and what feedback you should ignore.

Another tip that I would like to give you is to save yourself time by choosing a template compatible with what you're going for. There's certain mechanics that are not universal but very common, so picking a character that has them inbuilt will make things easier.

* Do you want to make a simple and honest character? Start off with Jmorphman's King or Benimaru. If your character will shock your opponent, Jmorphman's Benimaru is the way to go.
* Do you want to make a character with alternate modes? Start off with Jmorphman's Ken or Kyo.
* Do you want to make a character with install type of moves? Start off with KarmaCharmeleon's Yun, I've heard it's pretty solid. His normals are not the usual too, so if you want to convert a 3S character maybe it's a good starting point.
* Do you want to make a character with groovy palettes that change from time to time? Start off with Jmorphman's Chun-Li.
* What about characters from Vampire Savior? As you can imagine, Jmorphman's Demitri got your covered.

Good luck!
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#10  August 29, 2020, 05:21:04 PM
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I really like the initiative.
We have the chance to have a great community with skilled creators who usually help wannabes like us.
I usually try not to bother to much, and I think they can be tired saying again and again the same advice about making pots style characters.

So, it's a good way to have the basics of pots coding in one place.
Even if it never replace mugen docs and "mugen class"

OK, I'm back to spriting... + fixing some coding stuffs.

Many POTS projects in my head, I decided to go ahead and try stuffs by myself, even if it's average...
I'm not making Angel. = single frame.
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#11  August 29, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
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Thanks for the support! That's some very valid (and very welcome) criticisms, I'll address it point by point.

I'd like to say something, though. I know that I'll sound like a cunt because this is a form of criticism that I bring up every time this kind of conversation happens, but for good character coding you need to understand the character you want to make first. Prep yourself by playing a lot of source before jumping into coding. Even tho I didn't main some of the characters I coded (Terry, Yun) I played them across the games for about a week so I could get a grasp of what were their strengths and weaknesses. I honestly like to think that understanding the characters its what sets myself apart of some of the other clones. It's also something crucial in order to know what feedback you should listen and what feedback you should ignore.

That's another of the reasons I picked Ryu. I played the hell out of him in all the games I possess where he's in, and P.o.t.S's Ryu is probably my most played mugen character, ever. I wouldn't have started this project with a character I'm unfamiliar with.

Another tip that I would like to give you is to save yourself time by choosing a template compatible with what you're going for. There's certain mechanics that are not universal but very common, so picking a character that has them inbuilt will make things easier.

That's a double-edged sword. Picking a character compatible with what I'm doing makes my job easier, but teaches me less.

What I'm actually doing behind the scenes is taking the same pieces of code of many characters, sometimes profoundly different from each other, and compare them with a text-comparison software. I want to learn what mechanics are universal, but also the differences that make a certain character that certain character.

If I only picked Ken as a template, for example, I wouldn't know which ones of his mechanics are universal and translatable to everyone. And if I didn't compare the codes with Chun-Li's while writing this post, I wouldn't have noticed the possibility of changing the VarAdds on the jumps.

So, it's a good way to have the basics of pots coding in one place.
Even if it never replace mugen docs and "mugen class"

Well, that was never my intention.
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#12  August 29, 2020, 05:41:03 PM
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So, I'm gonna use some of his (and Knuckles8864, Deathschyte and KarmaChameleon) characters as a reference to re-create some characters. I'm gonna do P.o.t.S's old Ryu. Hopefully I won't get overwhelmed and finish this.

I'm quite flattered by this statement, so I'll put in my two cents.

Since you're going for PotS old Ryu, Jmorphman's Ken would be a good starting point as he's got most of the current stuff, and I'd highly take Karma's advice on learning the character itself (going back to some of my own characters, there's a lot of different strengths/weaknesses, like Raiden's a big guy, so he's slow but a heavy hitter for example).

I guess most importantly question is; How much do you want from the character you're making? Since Ryu's got a lot of material to work with, and PotS' has a lot of moves going on for him, even in just the Normal mode itself, do you want to take some things out, you want to keep them? Or do you want to make like a config so people can choose what they want from that character (like my Yamazaki update for example that I should hopefully release soon.) That part's up to you.

I wish you the best of luck, my friend. And if you need reference points or anything like that, don't hesitate to ask.
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#13  August 29, 2020, 06:01:40 PM
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I guess most importantly question is; How much do you want from the character you're making? Since Ryu's got a lot of material to work with, and PotS' has a lot of moves going on for him, even in just the Normal mode itself, do you want to take some things out, you want to keep them? Or do you want to make like a config so people can choose what they want from that character (like my Yamazaki update for example that I should hopefully release soon.) That part's up to you.

Thank you for your words! And I'm glad you guys are willing to give me help. To be fair, it's part of the goal of these posts.

The short answer to your question is: I don't know (yet). The long answer is that I'm not trying to recreate a new, revolutionary Ryu, but just to "translate" him to the new system as an exercise. I don't even know if it will end up release-worthy. As far as changes go, I do have some ideas in mind, but I'll probably decide during the process. I'll probably make the Shin Shoryuken a Normal Ryu exclusive, the Denjin a SFIII exlusive (and probably also the Jouen), and I'll definitely scrap the Reppu Jinrai Shou. I'll probably try to differentiate some normals between Normal and SFIII Ryu, gotta study Jmorphman's Ken for that. And I'm open for suggestions, if you guys want.

Plus yeah, I'll definitely make a config to customize some stuff, probably the accessibility to some moves for some modes.

(Btw, I'm waiting for your Yamazaki, he's my favourite snk character!)

Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#14  August 29, 2020, 06:01:58 PM
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Another thing to add to what everyone already said, and this is something I did when I started:
I didn't copy paste things from a character to another, I made everything on my own. What I mean is, you probably want your character to feel unique and not a clone of someone else's, at least I wanted, so do the code all by yourself even if it will be the same thing as another character. I like to keep track of my variables and animation numbers, so if another of the same char (that I'm using as reference) uses a move with anim = 1000 but I want 1000 to be another move, I'll make it 1100, or if the character uses a variable for a move that I don't know the purpose, I'll make my own variable. This helps a lot, trust me. Someone once said "don't copy and paste a code into your character if you don't know what it does", can't remember who now. Of course, you can use characters as templates and references, but knowing what you're doing is essential.
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#15  August 29, 2020, 06:34:23 PM
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That's a double-edged sword. Picking a character compatible with what I'm doing makes my job easier, but teaches me less.

What I'm actually doing behind the scenes is taking the same pieces of code of many characters, sometimes profoundly different from each other, and compare them with a text-comparison software. I want to learn what mechanics are universal, but also the differences that make a certain character that certain character.

If I only picked Ken as a template, for example, I wouldn't know which ones of his mechanics are universal and translatable to everyone. And if I didn't compare the codes with Chun-Li's while writing this post, I wouldn't have noticed the possibility of changing the VarAdds on the jumps.

Uhm, I can't say I fully agree as you can still compare code between characters to understand what things are universal and what things are variable, but I guess I get where you come from! However, some of the things that variate don't really come from differences between how the characters work on source and are actually the result of improving/updating character's standards. I think you meant VelAdds on the jump, and correct if I'm wrong but I'm guessing you are talking about this:

As far as I understand, you can put some additional VelAdds to customize a bit the jumps, which is neat if you're editing floaty characters such as, say, Dhalsim.

Jmoprhman's Chun-Li, for example, has this on both statedef 51 and 52:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

While you're reasoning is partially correct as you can put additional VelAdds to customize jumps, when it comes to CvS2/Jmorphman's styled characters, you're wrong. This particular horizontal acceleration is common to every single CvS2 accurate character. Chuns, Ken, Dictator, and even Dhalsim and Chang share the exact same values. The reason why PotS Ryu doesnt have this values is because the character is from a time where Jesuszilla's data tool wasn't a thing. If you want to know what makes character more floaty, that's mostly the yaccel value from the Constants (in relation to the jump.neu/fwd/back), something that does vary a lot from character to character.

In this sense, if you picked Ken as a template, while still comparing codes to Chun-Li, or Benimaru, or my Terry, you would have noticed that this is something universal.

I can 100% tell you that picking a character compatible with that you're doing is not a double-edged sword if you do things properly. If your objective is learning you'll still learn, and you can still compare stuff.

I guess most importantly question is; How much do you want from the character you're making? Since Ryu's got a lot of material to work with, and PotS' has a lot of moves going on for him, even in just the Normal mode itself, do you want to take some things out, you want to keep them? Or do you want to make like a config so people can choose what they want from that character (like my Yamazaki update for example that I should hopefully release soon.) That part's up to you.
This is a very good piece of advice, especially considering how Ryu's gameplan and win condition varies from traditional 2Turbo to Denjin 3S to (kinda) SFV.

Thank you for your words! And I'm glad you guys are willing to give me help. To be fair, it's part of the goal of these posts.

The short answer to your question is: I don't know (yet). The long answer is that I'm not trying to recreate a new, revolutionary Ryu, but just to "translate" him to the new system as an exercise. I don't even know if it will end up release-worthy. As far as changes go, I do have some ideas in mind, but I'll probably decide during the process. I'll probably make the Shin Shoryuken a Normal Ryu exclusive, the Denjin a SFIII exlusive (and probably also the Jouen), and I'll definitely scrap the Reppu Jinrai Shou. I'll probably try to differentiate some normals between Normal and SFIII Ryu, gotta study Jmorphman's Ken for that. And I'm open for suggestions, if you guys want.

Part of the prep I was talking about is regarding this kind of stuff. You can go with the flow, yes, but having a solid idea of what you want to go for is honestly way more effective and ends up with better results. You can still change stuff mid development (I do it all the time), but knowing what you want your character to play is crucial in order to have a characters that feels legitimate. You're still on the basic system stuff with a vanilla character like Ryu, so I won't bother you that much, but it's better to set an objective, even if it's something simple like updating PotS Ryu to current standards. For other characters, however, this is necessary even before starting with system stuff. Let's take Mina from Samurai Shodown as an example. While the wincon is similar, the way she plays varies A LOT from Samurai Shodown V Special to Tenka to 2019, and in this sense, the basic movement will have to be adjusted.

Another thing to add to what everyone already said, and this is something I did when I started:
I didn't copy paste things from a character to another, I made everything on my own. What I mean is, you probably want your character to feel unique and not a clone of someone else's, at least I wanted, so do the code all by yourself even if it will be the same thing as another character. I like to keep track of my variables and animation numbers, so if another of the same char (that I'm using as reference) uses a move with anim = 1000 but I want 1000 to be another move, I'll make it 1100, or if the character uses a variable for a move that I don't know the purpose, I'll make my own variable. This helps a lot, trust me. Someone once said "don't copy and paste a code into your character if you don't know what it does", can't remember who now. Of course, you can use characters as templates and references, but knowing what you're doing is essential.
I get behind this too.
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#16  August 29, 2020, 06:58:29 PM
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However, some of the things that variate don't really come from differences between how the characters work on source and are actually the result of improving/updating character's standards. I think you meant VelAdds on the jump, and correct if I'm wrong but I'm guessing you are talking about this:

stuff

While you're reasoning is partially correct as you can put additional VelAdds to customize jumps, when it comes to CvS2/Jmorphman's styled characters, you're wrong. This particular horizontal acceleration is common to every single CvS2 accurate character. Chuns, Ken, Dictator, and even Dhalsim and Chang share the exact same values. The reason why PotS Ryu doesnt have this values is because the character is from a time where Jesuszilla's data tool wasn't a thing. If you want to know what makes character more floaty, that's mostly the yaccel value from the Constants (in relation to the jump.neu/fwd/back), something that does vary a lot from character to character.

In this sense, if you picked Ken as a template, while still comparing codes to Chun-Li, or Benimaru, or my Terry, you would have noticed that this is something universal.

I can 100% tell you that picking a character compatible with that you're doing is not a double-edged sword if you do things properly. If your objective is learning you'll still learn, and you can still compare stuff.

Whoops. To be honest, I think this mistake further proves my point of needing to put in perspective more characters to notice these kind of stuff, but I understand where you're coming from.You're right, I shouldn't stray too much from the playstyle I'm working on. And choose more carefully my references, in general.

But this is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for.

Part of the prep I was talking about is regarding this kind of stuff. You can go with the flow, yes, but having a solid idea of what you want to go for is honestly way more effective and ends up with better results. You can still change stuff mid development (I do it all the time), but knowing what you want your character to play is crucial in order to have a characters that feels legitimate. You're still on the basic system stuff with a vanilla character like Ryu, so I won't bother you that much, but it's better to set an objective, even if it's something simple like updating PotS Ryu to current standards. For other characters, however, this is necessary even before starting with system stuff. Let's take Mina from Samurai Shodown as an example. While the wincon is similar, the way she plays varies A LOT from Samurai Shodown V Special to Tenka to 2019, and in this sense, the basic movement will have to be adjusted.

Let me rephrase that, because I realize I sounded like someone who doesn't see the end result: my objective, as of now, is remaking Ryu as it was, translating it to the system. It's the process itself I'm interested in right now. It's training. When I said that I don't know if I'll end up giving this or removing that, it's because that's stuff I can improvise upon.

Another thing to add to what everyone already said, and this is something I did when I started:
I didn't copy paste things from a character to another, I made everything on my own. What I mean is, you probably want your character to feel unique and not a clone of someone else's, at least I wanted, so do the code all by yourself even if it will be the same thing as another character. I like to keep track of my variables and animation numbers, so if another of the same char (that I'm using as reference) uses a move with anim = 1000 but I want 1000 to be another move, I'll make it 1100, or if the character uses a variable for a move that I don't know the purpose, I'll make my own variable. This helps a lot, trust me. Someone once said "don't copy and paste a code into your character if you don't know what it does", can't remember who now. Of course, you can use characters as templates and references, but knowing what you're doing is essential.

I'm afraid a certain amount of copypasting is mandatory for me right now, at least for the universal parts, for the simple fact that I'm working on understand a specific template, or else I'll just be trying to reinvent the wheel. But I understand perfectly where you're coming from with this advice, and I trust your advice. On my part, I can assure you I'm trying to understand the purpose of every single thing I'm taking, and keeping track of everything I'm changing. When I don't, I'm pointing it up in the post itself.

Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#17  August 29, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
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    • www.youtube.com/user/anderson505
I know many people will hate me for the question
but why I never saw any video (real time) pots style char creation (on youtube) from beginning til the ending ?
I really don't care how many hour or videos it's takes, I just wanted to know how is made
btw, I'm more than newbie creation (many people will say, start with basics)

But I really wanted to make a char in post style, even it means to take a year, but a I need a good video tutorial, no chibi creation tutorial (I know it's the fundamentals)

If is there this kind tutorial already, give a link

thank u

*I prefer video tutorial
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#18  August 29, 2020, 08:49:09 PM
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Someone once said "don't copy and paste a code into your character if you don't know what it does", can't remember who now.
this I can agree on.

What I mean is, you probably want your character to feel unique and not a clone of someone else's, at least I wanted, so do the code all by yourself even if it will be the same thing as another character.
but please don't follow this advice. I'm not a character creator but I don't think I need to be to notice that this approach to coding is very unproductive. Like ok, it works in this particular context (you're learning, so doing things on your own from scratch and comparing results helps with learning process), but the advice given was in general.

It can work if the referenced character is far from source (by copy pasting you're duplicating the same problems that makes the character feel off). But let's say refusing to reference perfectly fine latest Jmorphman's Ken code and doing shoto moves from scratch instead? Nah, I wouldn't recommend that.
Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 09:11:19 PM by K4thos

Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#19  August 29, 2020, 09:55:27 PM
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Well, I did. When making my Akuma I used both DW's Akuma and Jmorphman's Ken as references, but I didn't copy/paste a single block of code from them even for the shoto moves. It's fine if you think it's unproductive, but I'm more comfortable making things this way.
Re: Diary of the creation of a P.o.t.S character Part 1: Basic Movements
#20  August 30, 2020, 10:08:25 AM
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To each their own method, I guess. Again, I'm more inclined toward copypasting some blocks, as long as I understood first what they are, and if they're universal or at least compatible with my character. And I don't have (yet) the knowledge to code everything from zero, or I would not be doing this.

If is there this kind tutorial already, give a link

Sorry dude. It is not that easy.