Valodim's Thread

[Byakko]

If you can un-hide the posts where the person actually behaves (yes, it'll be post by post, but nobody needs to check every single post, it's just if you come across one that happens to be correct, you can go, oh, this one's fine, I'll un-hide it), at least there's some difference. There's maybe the fact that the person won't know what posts of his show, but then again the person probably deserved it.
And this is the case of obvious trolls ; if they don't realize it they don't create duplicate accounts when they get ninja-banned.
The way I see it, the ability to reverse it case by case (instead of tracking a normal user to delete his troll posts one by one) would be a good enough difference. It's actually the opposite of needing to keep an eye on a known troll and barge in when he does bad things.
But then again, hey, I'm not staff so I'm not directly concerned (though as a user I am concerned by trolls when I see their posts), if you rather ban the person, go for it. It's just that you don't do it that often to people who may deserve it.

[Shamrock]

It's just that you don't do it that often to people who may deserve it.

hmmmmm.

After we ban a few people for being trolls I have a feeling that you would say we were banning to many people or not the right people.

Maybe not you specifically, but people love to say that you guys should enforce this rule or this rule more and as soon as you do it to one of their friends, we have to hear about how we are abusive.

I think it is the feeling of most of us mods here that we ban to much. I think I might be the most ban happy and even I follow that line of thinking.

I disagree with the hide/unhide thing because it is still like modding every post. I mean, it sounds like you want to make a system where we approve of posts for the users, kinda the way a person approves of a comment on a blog. Call us dumb but we would like to think that people can approve of their own posts and if they are not adult enough to do so, then at that point the best course of action is to ban that user. The overall idea is to have the forum be conversation friendly. Approving of some bad posters posts hours after others have posted in the same topic seems useless and if he had to do that with every single user's posts then we would be stopping the conversation.

The poster's post should be posted when the other poster's posted their posts. 

[Byakko]

Maybe not you specifically, but people love to say that you guys should enforce this rule or this rule more and as soon as you do it to one of their friends, we have to hear about how we are abusive.

Not the same people, and there IS a way to land right in the middle of two extremes. That's what I like to think.

Call us dumb but we would like to think that people can approve of their own posts

Uh ? The user wouldn't be allowed to approve it himself, and we already know that there ARE peope who just troll and don't do that self-moderation some people want to expect.
And again, it's just for known trolls who have repeatedly been warned. We know who they are when we see them. As for constant moderation, again, it's more like saying shut up once, and then once in a while if a mod sees a post that seems correct and less trolling, it can be validated. Without a need to go over all his posts to approve or reject them one by one (like there was back when there was the warning system, green - moderated - muted)

and if they are not adult enough to do so, then at that point the best course of action is to ban that user.

Yeah but... You don't do it. and we KNOW there are people who really do nothing but trolling, and you don't want to ban them. why do you think Cyanide brought it up in the staff section to begin with ? Because there was a troll, and that he wasn't getting banned. QED.

[Shamrock]

I think Cy brought it up because his experience says that if we ban a stalker then said stalker would show back up with another account.

His idea is adding another tool that fools the troll into thinking they are posting when really they have been muted.

That isn't bad and I find it funny, but you want to take it another step and have a mod posts system. If we muted someone the way Cy is suggesting then it would be a ban where a person doesn't even know they have been banned.

I think that might work in the case of a permaban but not when you are trying to correct an unacceptable behavior. Remember that some people come back from bans and do follow the rules.

[Byakko]

That isn't bad and I find it funny, but you want to take it another step and have a mod posts system.

What ? No. What I said is what Cyanide said, plus as a bonus, mods may un-hide a specific post if they think it's not a troll post.

Remember that some people come back from bans and do follow the rules.

If mods see that the person starts behaving properly, then they may decide to remove him from the "ninja banned" group.
Obviously all of that is considering that the user and mods can see hidden posts. Ninja-banned users see their posts normally with no difference, and mods also see a note saying "this post is hidden, you can click here to un-hide it if you think it's proper".

This suggestion would actually let staff see if/when a user starts behaving properly again, unlike the ban. With a ban, the person comes back, and he can post more of the same stupidity before mods can see that he hasn't changed oe bit. With the ninja-ban, mods would see it normally, only everyone else would not see it. Mods can then decide when to un-ninja-ban a user who starts behaving, because they actually can see when he starts behaving.

[Shamrock]

Why would we want to read a trolls posts 

[Byakko]

Because you're a considerate staff member and you make wise decisions without letting your feelings or your laziness go in the way of justice.

[Shamrock]

I love you too.

[Cyanide]

It's been requested about 6 times so far. Mostly by me. I want some more options beyond the banhammer.

There are things that aren't really acceptable, but tbh a full ban isn't really the solution at the time.

Post limitation. The user has a limited number of posts per day. 1-5 posts allowed, allows for a time period. Excellent for people who post shit everywhere, or create too many release topics about stuff we don't want to show up (vegettosb3 for eg)

Ninja mute. Excellent for obvious trolls. You can't troll someone if they can't see what you've posted. As mods, we could take action when said person seems to be posting sensibly. I mean, there's an option within the forum that posts have to be submitted to a mod before they can go on the board. That's off right now, and a shitty option, especially for a spammy troll because they absolutely KNOW what's going on and we have extra work. Also, i like the idea of a troll not recieving anything at all.

[Shamrock]

The limit post thing is a great idea.

[Byakko]

I love you too.

Just FTR, I wasn't trying to imply you're inconsiderate and dumb and lazy ; you just didn't leave me many options to answer to that question, what else would you want me to say when you just shut it out with "I don't want to read troll posts" .
I just think that if you want to be really fair, you may give that sort of chance to those people, to know when they start turning reasonable, and let them back in when they do. And it's a gain when you don't waste time saying "maybe it's time we unban him, I have no idea what he's been up to since last time he trolled the forum but with some luck, he changed" and then figuring out that he's just the same and then saying "maybe we should ban him again" and loop. You'll just see it when it's time.
You don't have to be that kind of fair, it's just my suggestion as a user and a former staff member. And it seems to be an idea other people share.

[Valodim]

I said it several times before, ninja post moderation is technically not feasible in reasonable time. To give you a number, it would take me at least 15 hours to do it right, and it would always work shitty because there are a lot of implications to consider when tinkering with post display routines in a forum software.

Post limitation per day is possible.

[Byakko]

Oh, it can't be just a show/hide div and just let the postcount (and even the "display X replies per page") include the hidden ones regardless of whether they are hidden or not ? Well, whatever, then.

[Valodim]

the thing that's not possible is having posts visible for some users but not for others. collapsed (like spoilers) would work, but that's not the point here is it?

[Cyanide]

Lets have the post limit available then please. If ninja mute is too much work (dammit) then yeah. Additional options would be useful. I don't like having a choice between PM or ban. PM is generally useless and ban is over the top.

[Shamrock]

Now Byakko,

If you want to be fair, you are now required to call Val Lazy for being so inconsiderate not to work for 15hrs. 

Truce fucker. I wasn't insulting you with more than a friendly jab and returning my opinion which differed from yours.  Hell I even accepted what you said. Maybe American charm does not translate into black and white horizontal lined shirts.

\/ Here comes Byakko's next last word.

[Nucka]

The ninja mute wouldn't completely work because all a troll has to do is log off and view the board as a guest to see that his posts are hidden.
Then you're back to square one, unless you can make it work with IP recognition too. But once that person views the board under a different computer (with a different IP) then they'll know.

I like the idea of collapsing posts of members you want to ignore. It gives people the option of complete thread continuity.

[Byakko]

Truce fucker. I wasn't insulting you with more than a friendly jab and returning my opinion which differed from yours.

??? What ?? I just said it was the only thing I could reply (or if you prefer, I didn't find anything better to say) and I was hoping you didn't think I was calling you lazy or something. Did you think I was insulting you when saying I hoped you didn't feel insulted ?

[Bastard Wolf]

Get a room you two...

So Val, how did you make it work when you used it on Rednavi?

[Valodim]

That's a good question. I remember something about him, I maybe tried to implement it, but I'm positive I never really got it done.