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Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews (Read 5215 times)

Started by Duos.act, December 30, 2014, 09:08:06 pm
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Duos.act

Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#1  December 30, 2014, 09:08:06 pm
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Like all other creatively bankrupt, I've set my sights on ripping off others.  In this case that would be Umezono, Titiln and anyone who's ever written an opinionated post on a Mugen character that consisted more of "I like this" or "I hate this."

So what I'm going to be doing here is uh, I'll be taking a look at characters I missed while I was gone, or maybe taking a second look at an old one.  But first, a few things I'd like to lay down.

  • I do play fighting games at a level above casual, but what you should know is that this is only a mentality, NOT a skill level.  Your little brother could probably beat me in SF4 by doing nothing but zonk knuckles with Cody.  It does mean I'll be looking at the character more in terms of how it plays and functions as a fighting game character, not so much how it's programmed.  I haven't programmed anything for Mugen in years, so I wouldn't be able to give a fair assessment on that.  However I'll probably be able to tell if something is unstable or just poorly programmed to the point of being barely functional.
  • This is not CM Punk's shoot promo happy hour.  I'm not here to shit on anything or call anyone or their work garbage.  If you're going to suggest  a character you don't like in hopes that I'm going to rip it apart, well, sorry to disappoint.  I'm not going to withhold the unsavory parts of my opinion or pretend to like something I don't, but given that this is a community of non-profit fan projects I think it won't kill anyone to be a bit more tactful than you would toward a corporation selling you products.
  • On the subject of "custom" characters: This may sound pretty wild, but did you know some people make Mugen characters that don't play like they do in a specific game?  Yeah, crazy shit I know.  Let me mention specifically what my philosophy on these will be for the sake of these reviews.  In commercial fighting games characters may sometimes appear in more than one series, and usually they don't play exactly the same.  However the "spirit" of the character is intact.  For example...let's start with Akuma.  In SF4 Akuma is known for very scary mixups and pressure that is difficult to defend against, which he gets lots of damage off of, all offset by low life and poor defense/stun.  In UMVC3, Akuma is a fast character with frame traps who specializes in rushdown that leads to high damage offset by low life and poor defense.  See what I mean?  Both versions of Akuma are functionally different characters in completely different games, but the "spirit" of the character is there, that being a character who tears through opponents' defense and hits them with tons of damage but can't take a hit himself.  For another example, look at SNK games where Terry Bogard appears in like 6 different series with specials that function completely differently but is still noticeably "Terry" in each one.  Ultimately as long as your character keeps the "spirit" of the character intact I think you'll be fine.  And even if they don't, well, you probably shouldn't lose sleep just because I specifically don't like it.  Mugen gives you the freedom to make a Honda with QCF command specials whose Ochio grab hits you in air states, and if you wanna do that then by god go for it.
  • With that in mind, please don't get upset if I disagree with your opinion.  I'm not here to try and play messiah or dictator and say you have to like what I like or something.  If I call a character good that you think is garbage, or if I really don't feel something you enjoy, please don't take it to heart.  I'm just like the local newspaper giving short blurbs and opinionated writeups on the movies.

So with those out of the way, what's a good place to start?  I have about 5 characters I'm thinking of starting with, but are there some standouts I should be aware of?  Maybe check the COTM winners out?

Meldo

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#2  December 30, 2014, 09:20:44 pm
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If you're looking for some characters to review, I recommend making one for Shadow Dio and/or Kakyoin by Orochi Herman. They're slightly based on the arcade game with a lot of new arrangements.

Amidweiz

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#3  December 30, 2014, 10:15:12 pm
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Ohh another one of these review threads by MC2 nonetheless... Maybe I will give you something from the creepy black depths of my hard drive because there is always something scary down there even to the casualest of the casuals...

But instead of scaring you with bad creations I guess I will give you something more relatable  :twisted:

Memo

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#4  December 30, 2014, 10:21:39 pm
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Can you review my K'illa?  I would like an honest opinion about the char.

ShinZankuro

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#5  December 30, 2014, 10:33:20 pm
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Since I and my bro Gknux19 are updating for max the chars of VS Style Debuts, you can make a review of the newest release Hauzer?

Will be awesome an great analisys from you :)
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Duos.act

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#6  December 31, 2014, 08:34:48 pm
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Episode 1: Haohmaru by Chazzanova

Mugen is a lot like music.

Everyone has their own vision, and their own methods, genres and mediums by which they attempt to share that vision.  Some are content using the foundations laid to make something they enjoy.  Some take the tried and true and put their own spin on it.  Some particularly avant garde performers seek to do experiments, things that aren't traditionally seen.  There's no one style of music that is inherently better or worse than others.  While you write about how bad the new Iggy Azalea single is on your friend's Facebook wall, someone else may find that single to be captivating for whatever reason.  Music is a subjective art form, it's all in the eye (ear?) of the listener.  And yes, that does include hip-hop, dubstep, country or whatever else metalheads are bitching about these days.

Given the above analogy, it's no surprise that both are very much affected by the trends of their times.  Hair metal, energetic synth pop, grunge rock, adult alternative, crunk rap, EDM.  The music charts are always dictated by trends, and as certain artists become popular, other artists of these styles rise to prominence and reach a new audience, or older artists might see a career resurgance by incorporating these styles into their work.  This is where the musical analogy ties in to what I'm looking at today.  When I was last involved in Mugen, we began to see more creators adapting characters into the same play style that Phantom of the Server made popular.  But it wasn't until I left that it really became a trend.  I know this because every day I'd get linked to all these character release threads and my friends would complain about how tired and played out the whole thing was.  And hey, I can understand that.  When something becomes a trend you can get pretty sick of it, especially since being a trend means freeloaders might start hopping onto it for cheap pops thinking they don't have to put in any effort.

But isn't that being a little unfair?  I mean, would you really want to write off a piece of art because it belongs to a trend?  Let's tie this back to our musical analogy.  Elvis Presley is one of the all time greatest musical legends.  You wanna know what his creative process was?  Damn near fucking nothing.  He didn't play instruments, he didn't write songs, he basically did nothing but sing "black folk music" repackaged for a broader audience.  But he sang really, really, amazingly good, didn't he?  And isn't that a skill/talent in itself?  Maybe Elvis wasn't a John Lennon, or a Bob Dylan or a Johnny Cash or a creative mind who brought new and original ideas to the world through their music, but he was a one of a kind performer.  To say he had no talent or skill would get you laughed out the building, and for good reason.  Elvis's influence on his singing and performing alone was so profound that to this day people become tribute artists to recreate his act.

You see where I'm going with this right?  If your issue with these characters is that they stifle creativity, well that's perfectly fine, but if the end result is quality, isn't that all that matters?  I guess you could say that these POTS style creators are all cover bands, but if some of those cover bands put out really good music, what's the issue?  I'm not one of those guys who absolutely has to have everything play like POTS, but if the character is good I don't really see the problem.  Just because some people may be lazy and only care about getting cheap internet fame from copy pasting code, doesn't mean that you should look at every POTS character and immediately think it's a cheap cash-in.  If that's not your style of character, that's fine and I respect that, but unfortunately you're in my thread where the only opinion that matters is mine.  With that said, let's get started.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Anyway onto Haohmaru.  Haohmaru's pretty awesome, he's one of my favorite SNK characters ever, he's got a pretty cool attitude and as the shoto he does a great job of rewarding fundamental play.  In CVS2 he's not a very popular character and, well, I can kinda understand that.  CVS2 is a far faster game, and they didn't really do a lot with him to give him a hand.   I mean he still has his big normals and his giant damage, but why would you ever pick him in a game where you have other characters who have way better mixup, mobility and generally control the match better?  That said, I still enjoyed playing him because he eats impatient players alive, and because...he's Haohmaru lol.  I figure that giving him the POTS system will help him out since POTS system has a ton of different options at once, most of which are spread out through grooves in CVS2.  If nothing else, he'll be far less limited.



Now as soon as I load this character up a big-ass cheeky grin hits my face.  Unless my memory has gone to absolute shit, that's my palette!  I recall during my absence someone, I think it might have been Froz, had taken my color separated (by which I mean I separated his teeth and eyes and then put a strip across his jaw so he could have his facial hair from NGBC) sprite set and done far more with it than I ever could have imagined.  From what I saw in the palette folder people made some pretty badass looking colors for this dude.  I think I may have to get in on a set myself. 

So far I can't really see anything wrong with it.  Haohmaru is a very difficult character to screw up, his CVS2 self at least.  He has a fireball, a DP, a fake fireball, I guess the overhead has some vels to be taken care of.  His standing fierce (the infamous heavy slash) kinda fucks up the camera pretty bad on recovery, that's pretty annoying I guess.  He also doesn't do much damage at all compared to CVS2 and NGBC, at least not by Haohmaru standards.  Really I'd be more surprised if this character did have something wrong wi-



Yo



What.

Is that his sake overhead?  That's pretty god damn cool.  I mean, I don't know why it launches people across the screen but hey, it's an adaptation.  CVS2/POTS system isn't identical to Samurai Shodown so I guess it makes sense.  The thing's pretty fast too so that's cool.  I wonder what else he can-



Yo



What.

Wow, Haohmaru has pretty much everything you could ever ask for from him.  What's next, the universal overhead from VSP as a command normal?  Sadly no, but...



FUCK YES.

The spirit of POTS characters (or at least how I see them) has always been to sort of provide a "best of" experience, with all of the character's moves and tricks coming together in a nice, well equipped system to create a character that functions well in the chaos of Mugen and provides a package that plays well AND serves as a tribute to the history of the character.  This is rarely done right, but as far as I can tell Chazzanova did his homework on this one.  As I said, I can't imagine Haohmaru being an easy character to screw up, but I'm not going to try and devalue his work like that.  If this review seems like generic fanboy drivel, I'm sorry but I don't know what else I can say!  Capcom's version of Haohmaru isn't a very complex character, but then again I've played with a "CVS" Haohmaru that had OTG tornados that he could follow up on with DP juggles.  What really pushes this from simply "good character" to "this guy GETS it" territory, is the amount of familiarity and respect for Haohmaru and his source material that radiates from everything about this character.



I mean seriously.

But guess what?  We're not done here.  So let's see what happens if we hold start and...



Yep.  If you aren't sure what you're seeing, basically after doing away with the slash/bust system they did two things with the characters.  For some characters they tried to splice the movesets together, others had them become their own independent characters.  Enter Rasetsumaru, the entity that became of Bust Haohmaru.  Now first I gotta say that the sprites on his stance look kinda bad.  His arm looks dislocated and it animates poorly.  I'll let it slide because it's a damn idle stance but it's REALLY hard not to notice.

So anyway one of the most notable things about Rasetsumaru is that he has a unique combo system that other characters in V/Special don't.  He can cancel things that aren't normally possible in the game environment.  At this point of playing with this character I'm not surprised, but...



Chazzanova is aware of that. 

There's one part of the character that I question the purpose of however.



In V/Special and even Warusaki's version, this move had use because it could build your rage meter and set up for next round.  However here I just ask...why?  He has a power charge anyway, so what's the deal?  I just can't imagine it being worth keeping around unless Chazz did something to it I'm not aware of.  Anyway, on the whole Rasetsumaru is a lot more technical than Haoh is, and I don't really play him as much, so I may have to go back and double check but from what I played it seems like he's pretty much in line with how he should be.  John Cena shoulder tackle cancels properly and is + on block, as it should be.  Shockwave is supposed to knock down if I remember right, it definitely doesn't do that here.  Really I'm probably not qualified to review the Rasetsu mode since I treat it more as a novelty than anything, I'm mostly just here for Haohmaru.

Oh, there's also this.





I think the command on that might be messed up though, because I could NOT get it to come out unless I used all three punches while the readme says two.  I'll probably revisit Rasetsumaru in a later review, since I paid most attention to Haohmaru here.

As far as Haohmaru goes, I'm really impressed.  Unless he trips out and bugs the fuck up or something I can't find anything wrong with him.  I actually can't imagine playing with any other Haohmaru now.  At least, not unless I find a Samurai Shodown 2/4/VSP Haoh that I think is good.  I feel like of all the Haohmaru in Mugen this one is the most satisfying both in terms of being faithful to his gameplay and character and in terms of just being a good adaptation to the chaotic, clashing nature of Mugen.  I'll probably take a closer look at Rasetsumaru later, but I've already thrown up a wall of text as is and I wanted the first review posted to be a largely positive one.  All in all, this was a pleasant surprise and I can't recommend this character enough, even if you're not a Haoh player like me I'm sure he'll make a solid addition to your character lineup. 

MightyKombat

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#7  December 31, 2014, 08:55:01 pm
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I definitely agree, Chazza's Haoh really has effort and research put into it. I definitely prefer it to R@ce's Haohmaru, which I honestly didn't get what he was trying to do with it.

IIRC some of his sprites and anims (sake overhead, Rasetsumaru stance) were in Warusaki's Haoh first which this Haoh got the sprites from (well, aside from your colour separated stuff) but otherwise this review was good and I can't wait to see what else you can do.
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D, The Red Cloak

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#8  December 31, 2014, 09:28:11 pm
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If you want, can you take a look at my characters? You can pick any one you want. Their is a link to them in my sig, but I think that Cenobite hasn't got 3 of the updated versions, so I'll post the links here.

The Shadow: http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/the-shadow-updated-163271.0.html

D: http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/d-updated-thank-you-umezono-149388.0.html

Marco: http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/halloween-update-marco-kaiser-knuckle-custom-163132.0.html

Edit: I forgot one more.
Daphne from me DuckSS and Trinitronities SFIVNES Remake project.
http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/sf4-nes-remake-daphne-street-heroes-public-release-161488.0.html
Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 11:04:09 pm by D, The Red Cloak

Niitris

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#9  January 01, 2015, 12:27:29 am
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Kept hearing good things about his Haohmaru conversion so I finally tried it for myself.

Hope Chazz finds time to continue making chars; guy certainly knows what he's doing.

MightyKombat

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#10  January 01, 2015, 06:00:28 pm
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There was a sig here. Its gone now (thanks photobucket ya fecks)

xDragonWarrior

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#11  January 01, 2015, 06:29:02 pm
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do Electro do electro do electro :P

Duos.act

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#12  January 03, 2015, 08:07:01 pm
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Episode 2: Electro by Loganir

Electro is one of those Spiderman enemies everyone knows.  You know, like Rhino, The Lizard, Hobgoblin, Mysterio, Dr. Octopus, The Green Goblin, the symbiotes, The Scorpion, The Vulture, J. Jonah Jameson, etc.  He's been in like every Spiderman cartoon adaptation known to man and most of the movies, video games, blahblahblah.  Actually it always struck me as a bit weird that the only Spidey antagonist we got in the Marvel series was Venom, considering what a iconic character Spidey himself is.  I mean I guess we almost got Ock in MVC3 but it was not to be.

So here's Electro by Loganir.  Electro's just one of those characters that "deserves" it y'know?  He's the quintessential vintage Marvel villain.  Dorky costume, goofy name ending with the letter O, cheesy cliche superpowers, and yet that's part of his appeal, isn't it?  I mean as long as I don't download him and he turns out to be the Jamie Foxx version...oh lord that's a horrible mental image.



So first impressions, Loganiar and his crew are on point with the presentation as usual.  Electro looks like he could have actually been in a CPS2 fighting game.  My only real issue is that some of the anims are jerky and feel like they could use more transitional frames.  Even the gethits have that exaggerated look that Marvel gethits are supposed to, with the motion blur and weird spinning.  The FX on the other hand are a different story.  They're beautiful, my still screens won't do them justice at all, but they clash IMO with the MvC type feel, since MvC games use solid pixel based FX.  The FX are at least really pleasant to look at, so I guess I can overlook this.  However it gets REALLY clashy when you see that some of the FX ARE classic solid pixel style FX, particularly on some of his supers. 



Electro's air dash is really weird and slippery.  He accellerates downwards slightly during both the forward and backward ones.  I'm fairly certain you can't do backwards airdash after a superjump or double jump in Marvel, but it might depend on the game, it's been a minute.  Also it doesn't appear  that Electro can airdash with two attack buttons, which makes instant airdash impossible in the way that most MVC characters can do it.  Furthermore, even doing a manual IAD (as in anime games, inputting 956) seems to not be possible.  Additionally, Electro can do an 8-way airdash like Magneto, but can't triangle jump sadly.



Electro's normals are an incredibly strange case.  They're all very bad, extremely stubby with slow startup...but are EXTREMELY + on block.  This means if Electro gets in, he can start a near endless blockstring when combined with special cancels, since his specials are also almost all +.  Good luck with that though, since the lengthy startup and poor range on his normals makes it difficult to land a hit, let alone actually convert into anything.  I'd like to point out a few specific normals that bother me.  First is c.LK, pictured above.  I don't think I've ever seen such a slow c.LK, these moves are supposed to be very fast and self cancellable combo starters.  I'm not sure if it's the slow startup on his ground normals, low hitstun on his strong air normals or maybe both combined, but it feels like trying to start combos or pressure with an airdash feels like a bad idea, because the combo will drop after the air hit.  For example, you wouldn't be able to do j.HK ground series launcher into air series because the startup on his ground normals is too slow for him to get anything in before the hitstun on j.HK ends.  HK is an interesting case in that you can charge it, but I'm not really sure what the point is.  There's no guard point, it doesn't become unblockable or an overhead, so pretty much all you'd be doing is giving your opponent a hole in the blockstring for no real reason.  There's also j.MK which...I don't even know what's going on here really.  It kinda puts them in a flip state for some reason.  It also seems like none of his air normals are overheads, not even his dive kick command move.



Now let's talk about Electro's specials.  First up we have this lightning beam.  The LP version is alright, decent startup, good range, relatively + on block, but the real party is with the MP version. 



This move has even faster startup, even better range and is STILL + on block.  I can't think of any situation where you'd want to use the LP version when this exists.  The HP version does more hits and slightly more damage, but the startup isn't as good, so I can think of no situations where you'd want to use anything but MP.  This move can also be done in the air, with the angle done dependent on the button pressed.  The LP version is directly beneath Electro, but can't actually cross people up.  The MP version is at a slight downwards angle, IMO this angle needs to be extended to a bigger degree, something like Iceman's air ice beam and Dr. Doom's air plasma beam.  The HP version fires across, directly in front of Electro, standard fare.



Next we have this OTG DP move.  I'm not sure what this move's purpose is supposed to be exactly.  It can't relaunch for combo extensions because the knockdown time is too low, and you can't actually juggle after it hits.  If this was Blazblue or Persona or something I could see it being okay to force a tech, but it's not.  I guess it's just there to get a little extra damage off a hard knockdown.  You can't even supercancel it which is really weird.  Huh, come to think of it, I think NONE of Electro's specials are super cancellable.



So next we have this lightning bomb special.  There are three versions of this, the one you're seeing right now summons a lightning orb that travels a little bit.  If this didn't hit OTG and if Electro had better mixup I could see this being a pretty nice okizeme tool.  As it stands though, you'll probably get the most mileage out of using it to cover your offense and zone them or chip them out.



Next we have this version which circles around Electro a bit like Strider's oroboros, and then explodes after a short time.  I tried to test if it went away after Electro got hit, but any attempts to hit him failed.  The orb will detonate early if it touches someone, so I guess it's good for covering your offense too.



This version bounces off the ground and goes up and down like a beach ball or something.  Think Venom's HS Carcass Raid and you have a general idea of what to expect.  Can't see much a use for this move either.



This move is probably Electro's most unsafe move.  It's some kind of dashing teleport attack thing, but it's extremely slow and not safe.  This move feels more like filler than anything else, unless there's some secret trick that I'm not aware of.



And now we have supers.  First up is a good ol' fashioned MVC beam type super, not unlike Cyclops Mega Optic Blast.  I can't find much a use for it outside of chipping people out though because Electro doesn't seem to have many super cancellable moves.  The startup is somewhat slow but it does freeze the timer so fair tradeoff I guess.  This is probably his best super though cause it covers a lot of the screen, is relatively safe and does good damage, the rest are kind of bad.



Here we have...Maximum Spider?  Yeah.  This move looks really cool but I can't think of any situations I'd want to use it in.



This is a lightning charged tackle thing, like Super Skrull's Skrull Torch.  However, it doesn't seem like you can control the trajectory.  This combined with the aforementioned lack of super cancels makes it an apparent waste of meter.



After a extremely long startup (don't worry you can't move out of it), this move turns into a fullscreen attack.  It OTGs too so uh...I guess just throw it out whenever?



Electro's final super is what Loganir calls a "hyper chain," once the move hits you'll be prompted to mash buttons to power up Electro's electricity while classic Spidey foes gang up on the opponent.  It's a really cool looking move, and the max damage for landing the full charge is INSANE for a level 1 super.  Furthermore you CAN actually juggle into it off certain moves!  I'm not a fan of just sitting there mashing to get the whole thing out, but it's not like it's unheard of.

As critical as that review probably sounded, I don't want you to think that this is a bad character, because it isn't.  Rough sure, but by no means bad.  I think that a lot of the problems with Electro come from misdirection, like he doesn't know exactly what he wants to be.  A lot of his supers and specials just seem to be there for the "coolness factor" rather than to serve any sort of purpose in his gameplay.  My suggestion is to think up a core game plan, what you want Electro to do to win the match, and work from there to trim the fat on his moves and generally improve his tools to support that game plan.  I could see him potentially being a solid aggressive zoner in the vein of Hawkeye.  There's also the issue that he seems to be a bit "backwards" meaning he's ridiculously safe on almost everything, but his poor normals and lack of mixup make it difficult for him to do anything short of just flood the screen with shit and hope it chips them out.  With a bit of work this character could be really good, so I sincerely hope that Loganir will continue to update him. 

GTOAkira

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#13  January 03, 2015, 08:21:16 pm
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cool review you should probably post it on electro thread so that he can take the feedback
any chance to see one of Amarimono jojo character like Rohan or Kawajiri?
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Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 08:25:33 pm by City_Hunter

Gara

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#14  January 04, 2015, 07:35:58 pm
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thx for this review, I enjoyed reading it :beatnik:
Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 08:01:12 pm by Gara

Duos.act

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#15  January 04, 2015, 08:05:51 pm
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City_Hunter said, January 03, 2015, 08:21:16 pm
cool review you should probably post it on electro thread so that he can take the feedback
any chance to see one of Amarimono jojo character like Rohan or Kawajiri?

I could do Kawajiri, he was released during my time off.  I think I already played with Rohan though.

I am glad you're all finding these reviews enjoyable, I try to be eloquent when writing them.

Legendary DeMoNk@I

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#16  January 04, 2015, 08:06:18 pm
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Hmm interesting in depth reviews here. Great read & very well expressed

Cybaster

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
#17  January 05, 2015, 12:04:30 am
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Great reviews, with good arguments and nice writing. I hope you'll review many characters in this fashion.

Saohc

Re: Duos fantastic Mugen character reviews
New #18  January 06, 2015, 04:15:19 am
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If it's possible, could you do a review of the latest version of my character, Daniella?  Gameplay-wise, another perspective could give me an idea of what to do beyond basing much of the stuff off Akatsuki Blitzkampf, fixing stuff I notice during short runs through Survival Mode, and using Stupa's Training, of course.
Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 05:58:58 am by Saohc
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