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Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique - (Read 7614 times)

Started by AlexSin, April 02, 2014, 11:00:05 am
Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#1  April 02, 2014, 11:00:05 am
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Here we'll discuss about every char's Comeback Technique.
Feel free to show your idea with some gifs. I'll update the post with the new ideas you'll come up with.
You can also follow the template to make things easier (for me! :P).
Some char can have two while others (that will be stronger) will only get one.

Now that I have the answer :P, I can say that the group number for this is:
- 3800 (Defence version);
- 3900 (Offence version);

below there are the concepts:


Ryu Comeback Techniques
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

For the command input I also thought that, with d+2P = Counter Attack and with d+2K= Evasive Roll, what do you think?




Spoiler: Template (click to see content)
Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 04:21:49 pm by Alex Sinigaglia
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Super Recovery (Recovery Reversal) -
#2  April 02, 2014, 12:03:32 pm
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I'm not sure, 'recovery' and 'reversal' kinda sound like the same thing, and I think the 'super' should be in there if it's gonna use a super bar stock. Though, we could ALSO have variety within that (ex. Ryu's costs 1 super bar and can do a lot of damage, while Chun-Li's costs only half a stock (like an EX-special) and doesn't even attack the enemy but is merely an evasive/set-up type movement).
Maybe something like "Comeback Technique" ?
We also need to keep in mind we are using SF3's super bar system. So a character with 1 big bar super selected will not be able to use this move as often. But a character with 3 short bars could use it quite a bit.
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Super Recovery (Recovery Reversal) -
#3  April 02, 2014, 12:32:07 pm
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If you put it that way (people can have 1 long bar), it should probably be nerfed to using just half a bar. Or would it need a seperate bar? That might oversaturate the screen, I never like that. Besides the Super bar, there's I guess the Stun Bar and the Guard bar (or are those the same)?

Alternatively, we can make it a sort of a Desperation move, where you can only use it when you're low on health (and it won't cost superbar).
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Super Recovery (Recovery Reversal) -
#4  April 02, 2014, 01:11:47 pm
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Well the bar length and number of bars change depending on your super art. So a more useful super art would probably have 1 bar. This means the player has to keep in mind his other moves that require super stock. In SF3 some people preferred a super that gave them more ex move options than actually using the super move itself. By default everyone may have at least 2 bars in this game due to how many things require a bar. I don't think it should be on low health only. We already have the desperation super move on the table. I hate comeback mechanics. But thanks to KOF the desperation one has always been acceptable to me :p
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Super Recovery (Recovery Reversal) -
#5  April 02, 2014, 03:19:41 pm
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I was hoping that the SF3 super bar system would be used.

I would like to volunteer to make graphics for the superselect menus, if no one elses has plans for them. I will make them fit with whatever else of course.
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Super Recovery (Recovery Reversal) -
#6  April 02, 2014, 06:01:40 pm
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related
But what I'm asking is - Is it a guaranteed punish? In other words, can the opponent block it?
Here's my guess :
normally, when someone hits you with a super or a special, unless they have awesome recovery time, the animation usually counts on the target to be bouncing down, so the attacker is in their own recovery animation.
If you slash the gethit recovery and immediately do another attack, there's a fat chance that the attacker is still recovering himself. Only exceptions are attacks that send you flying to the other half of the screen (which would make characters with those kinds of moves OP, while characters having a super recovery with shit range would be harder to use), or moves that have instant recovery immediately after hitting (generally not happening).
So it looks like it's going to be a guaranteed super, but at a higher power cost than normal, I assume.


I was hoping that the SF3 super bar system would be used.

I would like to volunteer to make graphics for the superselect menus, if no one elses has plans for them. I will make them fit with whatever else of course.
You sure can
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Super Recovery (Recovery Reversal) -
#7  April 02, 2014, 06:09:53 pm
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I don't think anyone is going to argue with you on that ;)
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Super Recovery (Recovery Reversal) -
#8  April 02, 2014, 07:23:41 pm
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Changed topic title. :)
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#9  April 03, 2014, 04:47:02 am
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Is this move invulnerable or is it vulnerable to crouching attacks or big fireballs? And will it activate if someone slams or throws your character like the roll recovery in Alpha 1?
sailormoongalaxy said:
I had read on Wikimoon, and I found it grotesque it was so wrong.
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#10  April 03, 2014, 09:26:19 am
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Probably all of the above (though it wouldn't activate on it's own, only by command, I guess).
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#11  April 03, 2014, 06:11:20 pm
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A lot of that stuff needs to be addressed. That's another reason this thread was made. To flesh out the concept into a real viable mechanic.

Using the comeback technique against a quick recovery attack will probably mean you wasted a super stock. You can hit the person doing the comeback.
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#12  April 03, 2014, 06:26:23 pm
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I would like to suggest something. Something stupid. Word :P.

Using those "dodge" sprites for creating dynamic combos (something as F-F-Attack).

OR

Using those for avoiding "floor impact" when thrown
I swear there was something cool here!!
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#13  April 04, 2014, 03:53:15 am
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Tracks2000/RyuSuperRecoveryTatsumockup_zpsdbdb9ea9.gif
Does it have to use the SFEX tatsu? I've always thought it really made no sense for Ryu to have it (since he's always been the more orthodox shoto), if anyone would have that flashier move it'd be Ken. But anyways, I read that he was gonna have his normal tatsu as a special, and I think it would be best if his super recovery reflected that too. And also it's based on the Fei Long fight in the SF2 animated movie and he didn't do no stupid SFEX dumb looking tatsu >:[


I'm also kinda concerned about the balance issues this mechanic as a whole would cause, especially if it is pretty much always guaranteed to hit the opponent.
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#14  April 04, 2014, 04:00:29 am
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This is either going to be the most broken or the most useless mechanic in the game.
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#15  April 04, 2014, 04:18:22 am
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I'm really hoping to find a nice balance between that. If it turns out to be either of those extremes it'll more than likely get scrapped.
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#16  April 04, 2014, 09:20:32 am
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And also it's based on the Fei Long fight in the SF2 animated movie and he didn't do no stupid SFEX dumb looking tatsu >:[
Well his Tatsu in that fight (all the Tatsu's in that movie) did use both legs, that's more what you can say about the classic Tatsu!

I'm also kinda concerned about the balance issues this mechanic as a whole would cause, especially if it is pretty much always guaranteed to hit the opponent.
It should still be avoidable/parryable(/blockable?) imo.
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#17  April 04, 2014, 02:43:01 pm
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Can this work?

(with the gif in the first post)
Properties:
 - Attack: if hit it sends the opponent in a custom state; damage value: 200 (or 150) in total.
 - Defence: invulnerability when using the dodge sprites, can be hit afterwards.

Power used, restrictions: a bar. No restrictions.

Command input: QCBx2+2 kicks.



And taking into account what Felo said, there could be two (but not for each character, to balance the full game: stronger enemies can have only one, while weaker can get two):
Properties:
 - Attack: no attack; no damage value (0)
 - Defence: invulnerability when using the dodge sprites, can be hit afterwards.

Power used, restrictions: half a bar. No restrictions.

Command input: F,F+2 kicks (or x+a)
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#18  April 04, 2014, 03:03:04 pm
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We could try two per character, and one for stronger chars. With two, we could even vary with having 2 defensive ones, 1 attack, 1 defensive one, 2 attack ones, etc.
I think the command d+2P or d+2K would be good, if the command would be (for example) QCBx2+2K I don't think you'll have enough time to imput it, since the imput should happen after you've been knocked off your feet and flying through the air, or even during being thrown. So the command should be quick and easy enough.
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#19  April 05, 2014, 09:23:02 am
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I'm really hoping to find a nice balance between that. If it turns out to be either of those extremes it'll more than likely get scrapped.

You should also ask the question if the mechanic is fun to use and/or abuse.

Try also playing any character in Waku Waku 7 or Anakaris specifically in Darkstalkers 3. They all have comeback techniques specifically designed for anti-OTG but it can hit the opponent if the opponent is close enough. I have fun using Anakaris' comeback technique the most as its the only throw comeback technique I know of, a little harder to execute as the CPU doesn't always do an OTG but sometimes dumb enough to get close to you and somewhat feels like Shuma Gorath's Chaos Dimension if it successfully hits the opponent. If only Ralf and Anakaris were both in CVS2 or SVC.

SFA1 also has a similar comeback technique only using rolls. It only works for certain characters like Chun Li's throw. You can just roll behind her once she grabs you and throw her from behind since it takes some time for her to recover from her last frame of her throw animation.
sailormoongalaxy said:
I had read on Wikimoon, and I found it grotesque it was so wrong.
Re: Gameplay Mechanics - Comeback Technique -
#20  April 05, 2014, 02:39:29 pm
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SFA3 is a little bit better compared to 1 and 2. I believe the V-ISM has good mechanic purposes and is button friendly + easy to use.