The Mugen Fighters Guild - The greatest hits of character feedback

Niitris

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#61 February 09, 2014, 08:34:19 pm

Yagami Yuu said, February 09, 2014, 08:28:28 pm

Which time would you reccommend, for future releases and such?

Exact numbers are pretty easy to find, but 8-12 for the standard 2D fighter would do. I've experimented different kinds of wake-up systems, so I guess it all depends on what you're going for.

I can recall countless times where changing that one little line made the character function that much better.

jaede_

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#62 February 09, 2014, 08:35:19 pm

it's me
Bat's a Wrap.

Niitris said, February 09, 2014, 08:34:19 pm

Exact numbers are pretty easy to find, but 8-12 for the standard 2D fighter would do. I've experimented different kinds of wake-up systems, so I guess it all depends on what you're going for.

Hmmm, what number what would reccommend if the character were to be OTG heavy?

Yeaaaah im shootign ducks wiht the paino

Websta

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#63 February 09, 2014, 08:36:52 pm

play more SNK games
I FUCKING LOVE PLATINUM!

9

Seriously

My Twitter

---

jaede_

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#64 February 09, 2014, 08:39:20 pm

it's me
Bat's a Wrap.

Websta said, February 09, 2014, 08:36:52 pm

9

Seriously

I can already imagine the game going much faster and fluidly this way, thanks for the pointer!

Yeaaaah im shootign ducks wiht the paino

Vans

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#65 February 09, 2014, 08:42:52 pm

Just a quick note I should mention: if you plan to have your character behave properly during liedown states make absolutely sure you override statedef 5110.

MUGEN has a hardcoded system that makes characters recover faster if you mash buttons, making your chosen liedown time pointless.

The easiest way to do this is renaming 5110 to 5111 and using this redirection:

;---------------------------------------------------------------------------
; HIT_LIEDOWN
[Statedef 5110]
type = L
movetype= H
physics = N
[State 5110, 0]
type = ChangeState
trigger1 = 1
value = 5111

Erroratu

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#66 February 09, 2014, 08:45:01 pm

↑←↑
Dream-Colored Chaser

Alpaca-San said, February 09, 2014, 07:36:27 pm

I did say that a lot when it comes to how people keep thinking weapon attacks have absolutely no blue to them didn't I?

brb completely redoing clsns

Koop

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#67 February 09, 2014, 08:56:01 pm

-Lots of games don't allow crouching while running. Set the ctrl to 0 in the run state to fix this. To make attacks out of runs work, you need to add the run states to the command triggers (trigger1 = ctrl || (stateno = [100,101]); for example)

-Don't base hitboxes off kfm. His hitboxes are far too small. Never use the auto clsn tool in Fighter Factory.

Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 11:29:31 pm by KoopaKoot

jaede_

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#68 February 09, 2014, 09:06:49 pm

it's me
Bat's a Wrap.

For some special attacks and hyper attacks, remember to make a custom landing state for these, since most of them require special landing so there's no unfair advantage, it also minimizes the chances your attack could unfairly juggle into other things that were not designed for, specially since state 52 regains you control almost immediately. Mostly just copying state 52 and getting rid of some things should do it:

In your air attack state, set the physics to N and handle vertical movement yourself using:

Spoiler: code (click to see content)

Then make another state:

Spoiler: Long code (click to see content)

Yeaaaah im shootign ducks wiht the paino

Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 09:12:09 pm by Yagami Yuu

Ricepigeon

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#69 February 09, 2014, 09:08:16 pm

Thanks and God bless

Vans said, February 09, 2014, 08:42:52 pm

Just a quick note I should mention: if you plan to have your character behave properly during liedown states make absolutely sure you override statedef 5110.

MUGEN has a hardcoded system that makes characters recover faster if you mash buttons, making your chosen liedown time pointless.

Does that account for untechable knockdowns? or am I missing something?

jaede_

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#70 February 09, 2014, 09:16:45 pm

it's me
Bat's a Wrap.

Ricepigeon said, February 09, 2014, 09:08:16 pm

Does that account for untechable knockdowns? or am I missing something?

If by untechable knockdowns you mean hard knockdowns they are often handled in custom states, which most of the time don't coincide with the numbers MUGEN does its hardcoded things within. It's like the fall.defence_up issue you had which dissapeared once you used a custom trip state

Yeaaaah im shootign ducks wiht the paino

Ricepigeon

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#71 February 09, 2014, 10:04:04 pm

Thanks and God bless

I know about that. But what I meant was Van's modification seems to enforce hard knockdowns...

EDIT: Just looked at the P2 Safe Fall code in the "Greatest Hits of Character Feedback" thread. I'm assuming that this is the "Quick Stand" I'm looking for as far as soft vs hard KD goes.

Do not even ask

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#72 February 09, 2014, 10:29:00 pm

The Absolute Worst

Unless you're making a stage that is a single layer and nothing else, never ever use the xscale and yscale parameters when making stages in 1.0+. Using it will leave gaps that are smaller than a quarter of a pixel, so you can't ever fix them.

If you do use xscale/yscale you end up with shit like this

and that's not all of the gaps that I've circled

Jesuszilla

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#73 February 09, 2014, 11:32:36 pm

Loyal to the Game

Yagami Yuu said, February 09, 2014, 08:28:28 pm

Niitris said, February 09, 2014, 08:24:05 pm
Small little thing that can be categorized with something above but I feel is necessary to mention.

Lie.down time... cannot stress this enough.
Don't leave it at 60... fighting games do not work that way.

Which time would you reccommend, for future releases and such?

I'd recommend checking the actual game whose system you want to implement. It varies by game.

rednavi -RETIRED

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#74 February 09, 2014, 11:38:28 pm

Do not even ask said, February 09, 2014, 10:29:00 pm

Unless you're making a stage that is a single layer and nothing else, never ever use the xscale and yscale parameters when making stages in 1.0+. Using it will leave gaps that are smaller than a quarter of a pixel, so you can't ever fix them.

If you do use xscale/yscale you end up with shit like this
http://i.imgur.com/Rxht584.png
and that's not all of the gaps that I've circled

Can't that be fixed in 1.1 though? It allows you to use float values in pos parameters.

Dust Storm

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#75 February 09, 2014, 11:46:58 pm

Dust to dust...

"POTS Style" is more than just simply replicating features and shiny FX that POTS' works has. Hell, it's not even one single universal style! POTS' works had a lot of variation through the time he worked in MUGEN. If you want to make your works "POTS Style", just try to go for the feel of POTS' work you liked the best.

Thanks for reading my signature.

Jesuszilla

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#76 February 10, 2014, 08:58:04 am

Loyal to the Game

Actually, that loops right back around to Jmorphman's post:

Jmorphman said, February 09, 2014, 08:12:22 pm

Play lots of fighting games. Read about how they work. Try and learn why some things are done the way they are, and always keep testing.

I cannot stress this enough. Wake up, people. Phantom.of.the.Server did not pull things out of his ass (well, OK, he kinda did up until I think Yuri), he actually got data from the game. Use ArtMoney to get velocities, use PCSX2's recording option, use frame step in emulators, do whatever you can to get proper data. It's not hard at all, trust me.

Cyanide

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#77 February 10, 2014, 09:12:32 am

Legendary XIII
I am the eye of the storm to come!

Mugen has a hard coded bit of behaviour if liedown time remaining is less than 10, you become completely invulnerable. I would leave it at 60, cos that doesnt' really matter, and override that state to make you get up quicker. Otherwise you make your character unhittable while down which is very very rarely intended behaviour.

You can't bypass that short of making your own lie down state, and since there is one there already, overriding it to behave differently is a better idea.

In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Do not even ask

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#78 February 10, 2014, 09:18:31 am

The Absolute Worst

-Red- said, February 09, 2014, 11:38:28 pm

Do not even ask said, February 09, 2014, 10:29:00 pm
Unless you're making a stage that is a single layer and nothing else, never ever use the xscale and yscale parameters when making stages in 1.0+. Using it will leave gaps that are smaller than a quarter of a pixel, so you can't ever fix them.

If you do use xscale/yscale you end up with shit like this
http://i.imgur.com/Rxht584.png
and that's not all of the gaps that I've circled

Can't that be fixed in 1.1 though? It allows you to use float values in pos parameters.

Pretty sure 1.0 uses float variables too, since I had to use decimals quite a few times for pos params, but I'll give 1.1 a looksie if I ever find a stage to make that rekindles my passion.

Jesuszilla

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#79 February 10, 2014, 10:00:03 am

Loyal to the Game

Cyanide said, February 10, 2014, 09:12:32 am

I would leave it at 60, cos that doesnt' really matter

Yes, it does. You are way more open to OTG's and pursuit attacks if you leave it at the default liedown.time.

Speaking of which, you should override State 5120 anyway to get rid of the nothitbys (ESPECIALLY if you make a VSav character, because you should be hittable in that state by pursuit attacks).

Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 10:05:24 am by Jesuszilla

rednavi -RETIRED

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

#80 February 10, 2014, 10:23:43 am

There's also a hardcoded invulnerability people rarely pay attention to. If both characters spend way too much time in roundstate 3 (For example, due to an autocombo lasting for a long time, think K's Chain Drive or something) the target will eventually become fully invulnerable to force the round into roundstate 4. This can cause weird behavior if you don't have a fallback plan in your autocombo state (For example get stuck in certain states). Of course that will also get fixed by mugen's hardcoded behavior of forcing your character into the winpose if you're stuck for a long time anyway but it's a detail to keep in mind

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The greatest hits of character feedback (Read 684125 times)

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.

Re: Localcoord is garbage― and several other basics you need to know.