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Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know. (Read 23531 times)

Started by zigg4d, December 20, 2008, 04:38:26 am
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Bastard Mami

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#41  June 05, 2009, 11:11:08 pm
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yes.

Loona

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#42  June 19, 2009, 10:22:08 pm
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Just a small point regarding the 1st post - some of the Fighter Factory issues are listed under "Coding tips & Glitches" instead of the actual "Fighter Factory" section - moving them might make things a bit clearer.
Also, didn't FF get updated recently? If so, maybe some of the problems no longer apply?...
Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 10:25:20 pm by Loona

zigg4d

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#43  June 22, 2009, 03:53:28 am
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Loona said, June 19, 2009, 10:22:08 pm
Just a small point regarding the 1st post - some of the Fighter Factory issues are listed under "Coding tips & Glitches" instead of the actual "Fighter Factory" section - moving them might make things a bit clearer.
Also, didn't FF get updated recently? If so, maybe some of the problems no longer apply?...

Update to FF? while they're redoing it? ???

GT

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#44  June 22, 2009, 05:26:45 am
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Prince Jango said, October 07, 2011, 11:45:18 pm
Yeah Titiln, in fact, You Made Him

zigg4d

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#45  June 22, 2009, 05:34:30 am
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Loona

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#46  July 16, 2009, 08:35:50 pm
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Seravy

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#47  September 07, 2009, 11:07:01 pm
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Latest findings :

P2StateNo (and probably all P2 triggers), ignores players that are not on screen, but enemy triggers don't.

So, assuming P2 is not on the screen but P4 is (or P2 has a player type helper), P2StateNo will get P4's (or the helper's) state number. Enemy,Stateno however, will still give back P2's state number.

Bastard Mami

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#48  September 08, 2009, 12:11:04 am
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er.. p2 refers to teh closest enemry character, iirc, so if one enemy is onscreen and other is offscreen it will refer to the onscreen one, provided the positioning of the palyers is relatively normal. To test your theory fight against a single enemy then put him off screen, if p2stateno return sfalse your theory is correct.

Seravy

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#49  September 08, 2009, 09:46:40 am
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You mean P2 works like enemynear? That fits my previous tests properly, so I'll check for Sfalse to see.

Edit : it does give back the enemy's info if there is only one off screen, so you are right. This pretty much means P2 triggers are doing the same as enemynear redirections.
Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 06:59:26 pm by Seravy

Cyanide

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#50  September 09, 2009, 06:39:16 am
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enemynear is a redirect to specific features. P2stateno (all the P2 triggers) are just quick versions of some of the things you would commonly use enemynear for. Distance, state, movetype


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They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Seravy

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#51  September 09, 2009, 03:24:22 pm
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It seems there is one difference between enemynear and P2 triggers... enemynear ignores Player type helpers of the opponent, but P2 triggers see them. So P2 triggers are better, too bad there isn't one for everything.
(I tested it in debug mode with a player far outside the screen and a player type helper on the screen, and P2Stateno gave back the helper's state, but enemynear,stateno gave back the player's even though the player was further)

Same applies to the postype=P2 for helpers and explods, it will take the position of the player type helper if the real P2 is further away, while enemynear,pos X will never use the helper's position.

Byakko

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#52  September 09, 2009, 03:33:54 pm
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Then again, player type helper is deprecated and discouraged. Only if it's for a full game and you know what you're doing and you figure it's faster for you, why not. Other than that, you should probably avoid counting on it.
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Seravy

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#53  September 09, 2009, 04:32:07 pm
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I rarely use player type helpers, but there are some moves where you don't have a choice. Like Sakura's Mirror spellcard. If you need a fully functional clone of your character including the -2 and -3 states, player type helper is the only way. Otherwise, I don't use it. The only reason I would need a helper to have minus states is if it's a clone of the character, with all of the character's functions like defense, bars and the like. So far I've only used it twice, and probably I won't need it ever again, as cloning is not something average characters do.

Cyanide

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#54  September 11, 2009, 01:49:42 am
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Quote
If you need a fully functional clone of your character including the -2 and -3 states, player type helper is the only way. Otherwise, I don't use it. The only reason I would need a helper to have minus states is if it's a clone of the character, with all of the character's functions like defense, bars and the like.

Possible to do that just with -1. You do not need -2 or -3 for helpers. It's better in all sense's to just not use player type helpers. It's not fair to have someone turn and face something that doesn't take damage when you're trying to win a fight. Being forced to target something that won't let you win, even if you kill it, but it can kill you is plain shitty.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Seravy

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#55  September 11, 2009, 09:14:21 am
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State -2 is always active, while -3 is not in custom states. -1 can replace one of them, but not the other. This is why I said "fully functional". If the helper needs to copy only 1-2 moves, then -1 is good enough (Shadow card works like this, maybe Twin too, I don't remember). If it needs to work the same way as the player, including defense, attackmulset, special effects, including all 53 Clow Cards, then -2 and -3 is needed like it is for the main player. By the way is -1 like -2 or like -3? Does it work in custom states or not? I never tested that.
In Mirror card's case it kinda depends on the situation, if the main character has a lot of life left, you are actually having better chances at winning if you kill the clone first (as it has less life, and cannot be re-summoned if it was killed). If the character is low on life, then yes, you probably want to go after the main character, not the helper. Consider it like simul mode, there you also need to kill P1 only to win, but can face and attack P2. Anyway, your best bet is to interrupt the move before the clone appears, it is one of the few moves that can be interrupted because it is so powerful.
In Aura's case no need to worry about this, as the helper is used to replace the original character, so it is the only thing to attack on the screen. It is used to handle life changes and damage more precisely which is needed for her debug mode and resurrection move.

Cyanide

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#56  September 12, 2009, 12:12:40 pm
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It's possible for the parent to detect if it's in a custom state and set a variable that the helper can detect.

There is no real good reason to use player type helpers except possibly in a bonus stage situation where winning is dependant on an action or location or limit rather than hurting something.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Seravy

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#57  September 12, 2009, 12:59:44 pm
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I consider having 2300 lines of code in state -2 and -3 that I would need to check if the helper is actively using AND copy into state -1 enough as a reason. It just isn't worth 1-2 extra days of work for this, and especially not the 32423786 possible new bug sources such large scale recoding can cause.

It could have been done that way if I were placing everything in -1 in the first place, that way both the player's and helper's code could have been in -1 using said variable.The point is, just to avoid the opponent turning towards the helper making everything that much more complex is not really worth it in my opinion. Especially not if the helper is just one of the 80+ card moves, and isn't used often.
And what if the opponent actually wants to kill the helper first? It has less maximum HP, so it is much easier to kill first if it was summoned at the beginning of a round. (also it is strategically better to hit both if you have a move that can do so, in which case it doesn't even matter which one you are facing.)
Plus, making a copy of parts of the same code is generally better to avoid, as whenever you update anything in that code, there is a chance you forget (or just don't save by accident, etc) to change the copied part, resulting in the two working differently.

Legendary DeMoNk@I

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#58  September 28, 2009, 09:37:49 am
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And for D@mn sure KEEP KUNG FU MAN HANDY!. Hes there for a Reason. I always forget hes purposely made for u too learn from his ins and outs and use to create your own fighter also. So dont delete em and back em up on a file also....

rednavi -RETIRED

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#59  September 30, 2009, 10:55:25 pm
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Seravy

Re: Obscure crap EVERY mugen newb needs to know.
#60  November 05, 2009, 10:44:27 am
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Executing a changestate or selfstate in any of the minus states
-updates the state number immediately
-but doesn't process the statedef of the new state
-skips the rest of that minus state (Documents are misleading and say it is processed)
-but processes the next minus state as normal
-stuff not valid for the new state can trigger. If changing to state 1000 from 0 in state -3 and it has this statedef : [Statedef 1000] Movetype=A for example, trigger=(Stateno=1000) && (MoveType=I) in statedef -2 or -1 WILL trigger because the stateno is updated to 1000, but the movetype is still I.
-this also means you can't make triggers on time=0 in the minus states, because you enter the states in statedef -1 most of the time, and the rest of -1 is then skipped, so there is no place in the minus states that would see the time=0 tick of that state.
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