The Mugen Fighters Guild - End of an Era (2007-2023)

Ricepigeon

End of an Era (2007-2023)

#1 September 10, 2023, 01:58:49 am

Thanks and God bless

Well, it was inevitable, but I've finally decided to make the decision after 16 years to semi-retire from the MUGEN and IKEMEN scene. This was not an easy decision for me to make, and there is more than one factor involved, so I will do my best to outline them.

The first of these factors is due to real world obligations. My original passion by getting involved in creating MUGEN content was to one day become a software and/or video game developer. Unfortunately, what started as a passion project later turned into an obsession. It began to detract from both my career and social life, as there were times where I felt that if I wasn't pushing out new content on a regular basis that I wasn't doing anything. Eventually, as I began work on Touhou: Gensokyo Reloaded and Touhou: Incident Zero, it began to detract from everything else, and public releases and updates came to a slog (the last thing I released was Futo back in October 2022). In short, I no longer felt motivated, though I initially dismissed this as a temporary feeling.

The second, and perhaps the much bigger, factor involved was my spiritual life. Anyone who has engaged with me over the years is probably aware that, especially since the early days, one of my largest paranoia was the fear of having my content taken down for copyright infringement, a fear that overcame me very greatly back in 2011 where I went so far as to post a fake Cease and Desist letter purporting to be from the legal representative of Team Shanghai Alice (the creator of Touhou Project, which almost all of my content is exclusively based on) as an excuse to step away from the community, only for me to come back in 2013 and admit to the lie. I bring this up because, over the past few months, I've begun to rediscover my Catholic faith, and began to reflect on all this and what I was really doing was breaking the Lord's commandment of "Thou shall not steal", especially considering how the game assets that were being used were not only being used against the original creator's wishes, but also because the source itself was not obtained in a legal or moral method. It became clear to me that this was no longer just a legal concern, but a spiritual one, and I will admit that this wasn't the only sin that I've committed.

I've consulted with my priest regarding this matter for guidance and I've come to the following decision; effective immediately, I will no longer be involved with development of Touhou: Gensokyo Reloaded, and development of Touhou: Incident Zero is hereby cancelled. I would like to offer my apologies publicly to ZUN and Tasofro in this matter for having wronged them in the eyes of God. I've also taken the additional step of removing all downloads to my MUGEN content and deleting both them and the pirated software from my hard drive, as I cannot condone keeping stolen goods in good conscience. While I cannot control what anyone else does, I implore anyone seeking to create and/or continue creating content for the MUGEN and IKEMEN engines to please seek permission from the copyright holder and/or creator before using them unless you yourself created them, not just for legal reasons, but for the sake of your own souls.

Regarding my position as an admin of Mugen Free For All, I had initially intended to also make this announcement to announce my stepping down but, after discussing this with the remaining staff, I've made the decision to stay on staff for the time being. While I can no longer condone creating MUGEN or IKEMEN content using illegally obtained assets or assets used against the creator's will, I still recognize MUGEN and IKEMEN's potential for what it was originally intended for: a fighting game engine, which has legitimate purposes for original content (The Black Heart is a perfect example of this). In light of this, the MFFA community still needs guidance and I would not want to place an additional burden on the other admins.

While things haven't gone exactly as I had initially planned, I feel that the coding and development knowledge that I had obtained is something that is priceless, and I feel obligated to share it in any way that I can, both in my future career path and with anyone who just wants to dabble with the engine as I did for the past 16 years. I apologize if making this post sounds prideful or boastful but it was something I needed to get off of my chest. I appreciate everyone who has helped me throughout these many years and the many friends that I've made along the way. Thank you for reading this and God bless.

Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 02:05:30 am by Ricepigeon

DeathScythe

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#2 September 10, 2023, 02:16:29 am

Online

It's always sad to hear (or read in this case) whenever someone steps out of the MUGEN creation scene, specially someone with such a long history and many releases over the years. Of course, I respect the decision, but is still sad.

Slayer.

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#3 September 10, 2023, 02:32:27 am

Rurouni Fan
The dream is nothing yet drive us to the end.

I wouldn't say that making free content just for fun would lead someone to eternal damnation, but "If our hearts condemn us"...
At the end of the day, the choice is yours and most people just disappear, so announcing your departure publicly is commendable.
I remember the time when you were still kind of involved with Inuyasha, good old days.
In any case, everyone has to do what they consider best for themselves. If you think this is best for you, good luck in your future endeavors.

One day someone will rip the Inuyasha stages... Not today nor tomorrow, probably not even in this decade. But you know, someday... :')

Did you play the new

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

jaede_

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#4 September 10, 2023, 02:45:02 am

it's me
Bat's a Wrap.

I am sorry, but I cannot stay silent with this.

I do not know the circumstances that lead to this decision, they are probably very life changing ones, but based on certain things you wrote in this post, I genuinely believe you are extrapolating your faith to apply to MUGEN, and I think that you have been mislead and you may have been manipulated when you were at your worst.

I extremely disagree with your beliefs you are displaying here. However, it's your choice, and I will not interfere.

Yeaaaah im shootign ducks wiht the paino

lui

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#5 September 10, 2023, 03:30:17 am

I do appreciate all the work you have done for the scene. I do appreciate how much you have put into improving both engines, the amount of quality work you have done for the scene and for other games you have been involved with.

You are incredibly influential and are a big pillar in the communities you are deeply tied to.

But I cannot in say you are doing the "right thing" saying that those who use MUGEN without official licenses in characters are losing their souls because you likely feel guilt towards the fact that you may have been told the same thing because you made Touhou content without an official license, even though it was always a next to 0 percent chance of obtaining one.

Doing so is extremely irresponsible for the ones who genuinely follow you and your work you have done and look up to you to push past themselves in their coding limits. You cannot just turn around and say all that after so much growth in the communities you are involved with just because you are scared to continue due to whatever moral battle you are having with yourself.

Religious beliefs aside, you have demonstrated that you are willing to manipulate narrative events from your own accounts in order to run away before as you did with the fake Cease and Desist letter from all the years ago.
Condemning the communities you are apart of because you feel your own self guilt is cowardly and frankly goes *against* alot of Catholic beliefs you have and saying everything bad that happened is due to the fact that you are doing everything "illegally" and those who believe in you should follow suit is a slap in the face to all the people you have worked with and became friends with.

All this aside, I wish you best for your future and hope you can manage whatever it is that is happening in your head.

Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 04:16:28 am by lui

Nep Heart

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#6 September 10, 2023, 03:38:56 am

CPU Purple Heart

I haven't been as active these last few years, but I came to say while I certainly have very strong disagreements towards the choice you've made and what led to this path in the first place, especially since I feel it's in conflict against who I am, I still appreciate the influence you had upon me. You're the reason why I got into MUGEN content creation and I hold some of the wisdom you've passed down with high regard. This is also not the first time we've met, we used to hang out quite a lot as friends back in the 2000's, but I'd rather not disclose those specifics.

I'm just very sad and somewhat angry with how all this turned out, but good luck and stay safe to wherever life takes you.

TurnPile

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#7 September 10, 2023, 03:54:19 am

仮面ライダーグランドジオウ
The Scavenging Time and Space God

You were considered a major influence and a pillar in our scene...but now, you just left because of religious mumbo jumbo and personal reasons. I get that you didn't want to turn this into an full-time thing, I can get behind that.....but tying it to your religious beliefs? That is probably one of the oddest, but also....one of the worst reasons why to leave such a scene. I'm certain there are people who are more religious than you for their entire lives, and they don't let it interfere with their work. But you....you turned your back behind EVERYONE who has supported you throughout the years, including your best friends, all because you're a Catholic and you've been taking it very seriously?!

.....You know, I wish that I could know what caused you to become like this, man?

Macaulyn97

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#8 September 10, 2023, 04:02:32 am

Okay, so... you want to leave the community because that is what feels right to you? Fair enough. Acting as if using assets to create MUGEN and IKEMEN stuff is a crime and a sin that will condemn people to damnation? I think you're going way too far into this. MUGEN and IKEMEN never did any harm to any company or artist, and the way you talk about your religion's involvement in this makes me feel like you're being manipulated into having terribly inaccurate thoughts about this community, despite having once been part of it. I can respect the fact that you want to leave, but acting as if we're a community of criminals is offensive as hell and I have zero respect for your reasoning.

EDIT: So, I want to bring up one thing, because my post felt a bit aggressive. You should absolutely do what feels best for you, but on that note, I think the beliefs that led you to the choice you're making right now are only going to harm you in the long run. Its okay to have faith, but like anything in one's life, faith, in excess, is harmful and I think you crossed that threshold.

Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 04:11:44 am by Macaulyn97

Colonel Sanders

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#9 September 10, 2023, 04:10:46 am

KFC
it's finger licking good
Online

take care rice.

jenngra505

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#10 September 10, 2023, 04:25:42 am

R.I.P Mugen 1999-202X

While I'm fine with you quitting for personal and spiritual reasons. Everyone's life is their own journey after all. I'm confused by the logistics involved with this part.

Ricepigeon said, September 10, 2023, 01:58:49 am

While I cannot control what anyone else does, I implore anyone seeking to create and/or continue creating content for the MUGEN and IKEMEN engines to please seek permission from the copyright holder and/or creator before using them unless you yourself created them, not just for legal reasons, but for the sake of your own souls.

Let's say someone wanted to make Disney VS Warner Bros. with a few Paramount and Universal characters as DLC for good measure. How would one be able to get these rivaling companies to agree to a crossover the scope of which hasn't been seen before? Especially with a genre as niche as a traditional fighter? (Most movie companies try to copy the Smash formula when they make their characters fight in a video game)

Hopefully someday I'll be able to make the little puffball on my profile pic.
(Sprite edited from Scrollboss' sprite)

Ricepigeon

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#11 September 10, 2023, 09:14:51 am

Thanks and God bless

I had a feeling when I made my retirement announcement that I might ruffle a few feathers but I'm seeing some pretty vitriolic comments in response (mostly on Discord), even from some people in the community who I considered collaborators and friends. The damage that has been done to my reputation as a result of this is something that I was willing to accept, even if it was worse than I anticipated. If this were a gaff or a joke, would I be willing to take that kind of risk? I feel like part of this is my own fault for not being as transparent as I should have been.

If you have any questions, leave them here and I'll try to answer them. I need some time to collect my thoughts and hopefully add further clarity to this situation.

Odb718

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#12 September 10, 2023, 10:43:41 am

Shame on you!

Rice, thanks for all the help over the years. I think if creating the chars you did was weighing you down, you're right to drop that load. That's all it takes brother.
I've seen a lot of friendships break in two over the years. The responses are exactly what I'd expect to see. 99.999% of the "hate" is love towards you being snapped off and rubber-banding the other way. You saying "you dont care about the scene" any longer can feel like a slap in the face. And I know you still care, and cherish the time you put into help bringing thousands of people thousands of hours of fun. But that first "slap" can blind some people's vision.

When St. Peter is asking you about your life, enjoy the times you had break-thrus creating. Know that all the help you put out had a huge ripple through people you've never seen's day. And those people's lives being made better helped other people around them have better days. Maybe just the tiiiiiniest bit, but that's what counts. We're here to have, and create, fun. If a company sends a letter out to stop people, that's ok. Until they do, and that person disregards their concerns, and actively works to harm that company, I don't see how Pete would be disappointed. I've met the man. Cool guy.

But honestly, if you decide to come back and make a char from the ground up, I'm all for it. If you never release another char again, you can hold your head high. Which ever way you want to go, go for it. Youre super creative. You'll be able to help people out no matter which path you choose homie.

vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv

Niitris

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#13 September 10, 2023, 12:48:18 pm

Ricepigeon said, September 10, 2023, 01:58:49 am

I'll start by saying that :

To put some things in perspective, quitting because of burnout and/or growing out of (usually free) artistic development is perfectly fine. It doesn't "tarnish" a decade plus of work and agree or not, any work done by creators can be handled any way they wish. It is unfortunate that Incident Zero is being shelved (it looked fun and I was looking forwards to seeing it realized). But it wouldn't be the first incomplete project in our wonderful community, and to say that you shouldn't "delete everything because it's a stain on your legacy" sounds a bit like guilt-tripping to be honest.

But yes, the "sake of your own souls" quip was really unnecessary and more silly than anything else. And allows people to either poke fun at the idea (which I certainly wasn't above), or come to weird conclusions about being controlling and manipulative (that I don't agree with). I'm sure you know that you aren't the first person to make a post about "(re-)finding religion," and those people were more ruthlessly mocked.

Needless to say, I do not agree with the idea that taking assets for the purpose of fanart is an indictment on your character and being. Big corporations make their money in all sorts of shady, immoral, and manipulative ways. Whatever motive they in doing that is one that would unquestionably be looked down upon by God (greed, seven deadly sins, etc).

More appropriate for the "other side" of the forum, but probably fine in this particular case:

I consider myself to be a non-religious spiritualist, and there are lots of questions and self-reflection that has come with it. I chose to be non-religious (not "atheist" because I do believe in gods and the divine) because I felt I could live a life of quality morals and values without an established doctrine. I also feel that religion (and this includes it's postmodernist replacement, "hyper-progressive politics") is an easy way to manipulate people into believing things that simply aren't compatible with the realities of our wonderful world.

Lesson I've learned is that everyone is trying to sell you something, and it's not hard to stumble into "bad information" (lots of it out there) that can pollute your brain. Especially in the information age where the biggest library in the world is possibly on your fingertips while you read the posts on this thread.

I respect any journey towards finding spirituality and self-growth, especially in today's psychotic internet world. But be careful, you wouldn't eat tarnished food that could damage your organs.

I really enjoyed working on Mugen Class (which you and a few others inspired me to do) in the forum when I was more active and less of a shitposter. And your impact on the community is undeniable, which I respect. All and all, I wish you the best in whatever is next in your life.

Mayuri

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#14 September 10, 2023, 01:27:19 pm

oh boo hoo, we're all gonna go to hell for creating mugen contents. woe is me.

half convinced you've been brainwashed 'cause otherwise i just cant see how a sane, functioning adult would genuinely have this line of thinking.

consider consulting with a psychiatrist instead of a priest next time.

Trololo

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#15 September 10, 2023, 02:57:28 pm

Objection! Sustained!

OK, pal. I'm not going to force you back or anything. MUGEN is a hobby, and hobby is something you threat however you want. But please, consider this: stealing, as an action, can be broken down to 3 factors:
-You gain something by taking it from someone.
-Said someone loses said something to you.
-You do not compensate to said someone for taking from him.
What I mean is yes, using electronic recources from others, like sprites, falls under the first factor, since you gain said recourses to make your own stuff, and using them for free is a definition of the third factor. But tell me: where in the hell is second factor in your equasion? How can you compare you making stuff for MUGEN and IKEMEN to, for example, stealing a loaf of bread? In the second case the seller loses the product and money he could get by selling it/spent to buy it, but what did Shanghai Alice lose from your MUGEN shenanigans? People have suddenly stopped buying their games because someone used their sprites to make a free, non-profit game?
That's exactly what I mean. Maybe getting rid of pirated programms MIGHT be a right decision here, if you care about it so much, since by piracy software creators lose the income from selling said software, but what harm to the World was ever brought by your creation? After all, that's why stealing is a sin and a crime - at the end of the day, it brings harm of other one. And mark my word: you brought none.

Orochi Gill

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#16 September 10, 2023, 03:22:26 pm

I am hilarious
and you will quote everything I say

The moment you let your religion dictate what hobbies you can have, the closer you get to that slide that'll lead you way down.

Also, "illegally obtained assets"? Do you realize that Zun doesn't even care and fangames come out so often, sometimes paid, because Zun lets anyone use his property to make whatever games they want? Christ, I hope this is an act because otherwise, y'all need Satan

last.fm | Games | Alternate 3DS/Wii U/PSN stuff

Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 03:43:28 pm by Orochi Gill

Kamekaze

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#17 September 10, 2023, 03:35:42 pm

Sr. Black Person
Mess with the chuchu you get the pewpew

I really would like to hear exactly how you explained this to a priest. Aside from that it sounds like all you have to do is ask zun for permission and I doubt he'd say no.

Want to feel useful for a useless show? click here
119/150 Chars, I'm not dead yet....the true surprise is in my thread.
Hahahah fuck you photobucket.

Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 03:43:32 pm by Kamekaze

Roman55

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#18 September 10, 2023, 04:37:58 pm

Hick-spanic
the dawn away

Honestly at the end of the day you do you. I do personally take issue with your deleting of the progress of your full games. Not because "wah I'm not gonna play them" or "there goes my chance to play as x" but because it was also the work of not just you but other people from spriters to coders that's just down the toilet. As someone who's being doing collaborative stuff in a streaming circle things like that just rub me the wrong way.

EDIT: also as mentioned ZUN won't care as long as it's all free, even if it's using the Tasofro assets

might as well shill: https://twitter.com/FraudKrew
the streams are here: https://www.twitch.tv/robotboombox

TurnPile

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#19 September 10, 2023, 05:42:27 pm

仮面ライダーグランドジオウ
The Scavenging Time and Space God

Ricepigeon said, September 10, 2023, 09:14:51 am

I had a feeling when I made my retirement announcement that I might ruffle a few feathers but I'm seeing some pretty vitriolic comments in response (mostly on Discord), even from some people in the community who I considered collaborators and friends. The damage that has been done to my reputation as a result of this is something that I was willing to accept, even if it was worse than I anticipated. If this were a gaff or a joke, would I be willing to take that kind of risk? I feel like part of this is my own fault for not being as transparent as I should have been.

If you have any questions, leave them here and I'll try to answer them. I need some time to collect my thoughts and hopefully add further clarity to this situation.

Would it be better if explain why you written that post in such a overly serious and rigid tone? It sounded absolutely nothing like you would ever write before and almost feels like you had someone watching over you the entire time.

EgyLynx

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#20 September 10, 2023, 06:07:03 pm

Why,

Ricepigeon said, September 10, 2023, 09:14:51 am

I had a feeling when I made my retirement announcement that I might ruffle a few feathers but I'm seeing some pretty vitriolic comments in response (mostly on Discord), even from some people in the community who I considered collaborators and friends. The damage that has been done to my reputation as a result of this is something that I was willing to accept, even if it was worse than I anticipated. If this were a gaff or a joke, would I be willing to take that kind of risk? I feel like part of this is my own fault for not being as transparent as I should have been.

If you have any questions, leave them here and I'll try to answer them. I need some time to collect my thoughts and hopefully add further clarity to this situation.

Same time not surpise, and surpise at also. Sad for us.
All good to you and your work/hobby at future!

Hey, can i help, or maybe i need help

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