The Mugen Fighters Guild - End of an Era (2007-2023)

Ricepigeon

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#21 September 10, 2023, 06:24:30 pm

Thanks and God bless

DS said, September 10, 2023, 02:16:29 am

.

TurnPile said, September 10, 2023, 03:54:19 am

.

I won't pretend to be a saint, as pride is definitely something that I've struggled with, even to this day. This was not an easy decision for me to make, having poured so much effort over the past decade and a half, but I did say that I wouldn't be leaving entirely, because I still do believe the engine (IKEMEN especially) has potential for what it was originally intended for, and if I can pass on what I learned during this time then it might give me a renewed sense of purpose.

Slayer. said, September 10, 2023, 02:32:27 am

.

lui said, September 10, 2023, 03:30:17 am

.

Macaulyn97 said, September 10, 2023, 04:02:32 am

.

I apologize if anyone has felt like that I had betrayed them, as that was never my intent. Maybe the part about "for the sake of your own souls" may sound a bit extreme, but I was mostly referring to utilizing assets without the permission of the copyright holder and/or were obtained through illegal methods; obviously the former wouldn't apply to companies like Capcom and SNK that already gave the go-ahead years ago. I'm not got to enforce any strict standard on how people should approach this, as I trust in everyone's judgment to approach this responsibly, but I felt that I had to say what I said the only way I knew how; I want the community and aspiring devs to be able to enjoy what the engine has to offer in a responsible manner. I see it as a similar situation to hiding and/or destroying bottles of alcohol belonging to a person who is clearly an alcoholic; there is no malice behind it, it's an act of love: a desire to will the greater good of the person.

jaede_ said, September 10, 2023, 02:45:02 am

.

I know this has been emotional for both of us and there's some other things we discussed privately that I won't mention here out of respect, unless you're fine with it. But as I already explained to you in private, this has been an emotional rollercoaster for me. I apologize for not having confided this in you sooner since you were really the only person in the community that I considered a close and trustworthy friend, and I regret not having done so out of fear of being ostracized for sticking out like a sore thumb due to having some unpopular opinions.

Nep Heart said, September 10, 2023, 03:38:56 am

.

The inspiration is mutual; you've actually inspired be to focus more on my own character designs and worldbuilding and, on at least one occasion, to go back and modify one of my older creations after seeing your take on it. Maybe there was a sense of jealousy involved to an extent, but I won't deny that you had an influence on me as well. If there's any concerns you have that you'd like to discuss privately, I'll be happy to listen.

Macaulyn97 said, September 10, 2023, 04:02:32 am

EDIT: So, I want to bring up one thing, because my post felt a bit aggressive. You should absolutely do what feels best for you, but on that note, I think the beliefs that led you to the choice you're making right now are only going to harm you in the long run. Its okay to have faith, but like anything in one's life, faith, in excess, is harmful and I think you crossed that threshold.

Niitris said, September 10, 2023, 12:48:18 pm

.

I still have fond memories of the Mugen Class section, it just feels like a shame that the place isn't as active as it once was back in the day. Thanks for reminding me that the place exists, as I now have a better sense of how I can continue to be part of the community despite my rather strong words. If I tread down any wrong roads on my IRL spiritual path, I trust that the Lord will redirect me if and when I do reach those crossroads, as this is still a relatively new journey for me.

jenngra505 said, September 10, 2023, 04:25:42 am

.

As mentioned before, I was referring mostly to ripped assets but you should still try to seek out the stance/permission of the IP holder before trying anything. Respecting the creator's wishes is an act of love for them, even if you don't necessarily like or agree with them.

Odb718 said, September 10, 2023, 10:43:41 am

.

I appreciate the kind words and I would still love to help out the community in any way that I can, even if my stance on certain methods used in asset creation as changed. I've already said what was on my mind but, as I mentioned, the engines still have their legitimate uses and anything I can offer toward that goal I see as an act of love.

Trololo said, September 10, 2023, 02:57:28 pm

.

I think you summed up my stance on the second point pretty well. The people who did the work deserve some kind of compensation for their time and effort, and I suppose that guilt is what pushed me to take this step.

Orochi Gill said, September 10, 2023, 03:22:26 pm

.

ZUN still has his guidelines regarding fangame creation, and the prohibition on using game ripped assets is something that has weighed heavily on my conscience for a very long time. Perhaps once day, Incident Zero might be revived using completely new and original assets to comply with his guidelines? I won't rule out that possibility; if anything, it would give me even greater creative control over it (including monetization possibilities but I don't want to jump the gun here) and I would be able to continue bring people over to both Touhou and Mugen/Ikemen in a way that would leave me clear of a guilty conscience. I won't make any promises if that will be the next step or not, but I trust God will guide me if I ever do reach those crossroads.

Kamekaze said, September 10, 2023, 03:35:42 pm

.

Re: permissions; I have strong doubts that he would allow it due to the guidelines that I previously stated and I feel that the language barrier would provide an additional obstacle, so I felt the best course of action for now was to simply respect his wishes. That's not even mentioning the music assets that were being used, many of which were from various sources, which provides an additional complication.

Re: the confession; I didn't go too much into detail but I explained the general situation that I had used assets from an illegally downloaded game and his advice was to see what he wants you to do with it. Considering his guidelines, I knew the answer was pretty obvious so I decided to respect his wishes.

Roman55 said, September 10, 2023, 04:37:58 pm

.

I feel that the commissioned sprites might be the exception to this due to being original creations, even if they are largely based off of existing assets, and have no problem with people continuing to use those. It's the reason I included the license txt files when I released them. There is, however, still the issue of non-original assets such as FX and sounds, which I've already addressed in one of my previous answers.

TurnPile said, September 10, 2023, 05:42:27 pm

Would it be better if explain why you written that post in such a overly serious and rigid tone? It sounded absolutely nothing like you would ever write before and almost feels like you had someone watching over you the entire time.

I guess part of it was me letting my emotions get the better of me after seeing some of the responses and it affected my tone. I apologize.

Hopefully all this provides everyone with some clarity. Thanks to everyone and God bless.

Orochi Gill

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#22 September 10, 2023, 06:28:00 pm

I am hilarious
and you will quote everything I say

This is astoundingly asinine I can't believe you're pulling this shit

Have fun trying to appease something that doesn't exist then, whatever. Yeah, that's right, there is no god.

last.fm | Games | Alternate 3DS/Wii U/PSN stuff

Macaulyn97

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#23 September 10, 2023, 06:53:55 pm

Ricepigeon said, September 10, 2023, 09:14:51 am

I had a feeling when I made my retirement announcement that I might ruffle a few feathers but I'm seeing some pretty vitriolic comments in response (mostly on Discord), even from some people in the community who I considered collaborators and friends. The damage that has been done to my reputation as a result of this is something that I was willing to accept, even if it was worse than I anticipated. If this were a gaff or a joke, would I be willing to take that kind of risk? I feel like part of this is my own fault for not being as transparent as I should have been.

If you have any questions, leave them here and I'll try to answer them. I need some time to collect my thoughts and hopefully add further clarity to this situation.

This is more of an advice than a question, honestly: think really carefully about what you're doing. First off, as far as I know, the creators of Touhou are very nice to fan creations, as long as they're properly credited, so even by your own standards, you were not doing anything wrong. Second, and most important, you need to rethink your reasoning on this, what the MUGEN and IKEMEN communities do is harmless to artists and especially to companies, correct me if I'm wrong, but a God that forgives all wouldn't damn your soul for something like that, everyone is a sinner for many reasons, making MUGEN stuff isn't one of them. I urge you to be careful with whom is leading you towards believing such things, religions should give people comfort, not make them fear their actions, the beliefs you've shown here will only harm you in the long run, I assure you.

jaede_

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#24 September 10, 2023, 07:50:30 pm

it's me
Bat's a Wrap.

Ricepigeon said, September 10, 2023, 06:24:30 pm

I know this has been emotional for both of us and there's some other things we discussed privately that I won't mention here out of respect, unless you're fine with it. But as I already explained to you in private, this has been an emotional rollercoaster for me. I apologize for not having confided this in you sooner since you were really the only person in the community that I considered a close and trustworthy friend, and I regret not having done so out of fear of being ostracized for sticking out like a sore thumb due to having some unpopular opinions.

I think in a situation like this, transparency is a key thing, because as you can see, when certain details are obfuscated all we're left with is our own conclusions. I appreciate that you believe that you can confide in me, and I don't mind you saying the things I've said to you publically.

I do understand what you are trying to do is from a side of concern and care for others, but I believe you have to be careful about how you approach certain things, for instance:

Ricepigeon said, September 10, 2023, 06:24:30 pm

I see it as a similar situation to hiding and/or destroying bottles of alcohol belonging to a person who is clearly an alcoholic; there is no malice behind it, it's an act of love: a desire to will the greater good of the person.

This line of thinking I believe is hamful, because it doesn't take into account things like withdrawal for severe addictions, and withdrawal may be harmful, sometimes more so than slowly stopping someone's intake. It might sound out of left field to mention this and you probably would take it into account, but the thing I want you to make out of that is that the path to hell can be paved with good intentions, and some people DO become quite toxic because in their mind, they think that they're doing the correct thing, so please I implore you to keep this in mind as you thread life with this new leaf.

Like I mentioned, I won't stop being friends with you or try to cut all contact, my biggest fears was that you would change so drastically, so much as to be irrecognizable from the person I knew (which doesn't seem the case), and would abandon everything you worked hard for (which you did, but c'est la vie).

However, I must state to you that since my project thrives in recycled content from people I will most likely never be in touch with, I will ask you to respect my wishes to keep going with it, and I don't want you to police others to do the same.

Yeaaaah im shootign ducks wiht the paino

Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 08:06:20 pm by jaede_

Amidweiz

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#25 September 10, 2023, 08:18:34 pm

Hey four stars, whatever that means

Ricepigeon said, September 10, 2023, 06:24:30 pm

I apologize if anyone has felt like that I had betrayed them, as that was never my intent. Maybe the part about "for the sake of your own souls" may sound a bit extreme, but I was mostly referring to utilizing assets without the permission of the copyright holder and/or were obtained through illegal methods; obviously the former wouldn't apply to companies like Capcom and SNK that already gave the go-ahead years ago. I'm not got to enforce any strict standard on how people should approach this, as I trust in everyone's judgment to approach this responsibly, but I felt that I had to say what I said the only way I knew how; I want the community and aspiring devs to be able to enjoy what the engine has to offer in a responsible manner. I see it as a similar situation to hiding and/or destroying bottles of alcohol belonging to a person who is clearly an alcoholic; there is no malice behind it, it's an act of love: a desire to will the greater good of the person.

I would say that "for the sake of your own souls" bit was pretty extreme, and manipulative frankly along with deleting your entire catalogue of mugen content along with creating lost media. Considering that most people have told you that ZUN doesn't mind doujinshi/fan work. After all would touhou be as popular if that weren't the case. Which brings up the question was this whole thing a reaction because of basara's issues with interplay being an utter shit. The only real time ZUN actually did anything about it was moriya shrine hosting some of the games that where available on steam. Do note that interplay has had a notoriety of trying to sue when someone does their properties better than them despite selling the IP to them. Sure legally speaking they have the right with basara, morally on the other hand has gone about as well as you expect and counting. While technically they don't need to mention it, their website doesn't even mention ownership of the series on their intern made website with the remove me email at the bottom.

Request thread/Edits thread

Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 08:53:51 pm by Amidweiz

Roman55

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#26 September 10, 2023, 08:52:03 pm

Hick-spanic
the dawn away

Amidweiz said, September 10, 2023, 08:18:34 pm

Regarding Moriya that was actually him. But only because some of the games hosted were on Steam by that point. Far as I know anything not on there is fair game (or at least he's willing to look away).

might as well shill: https://twitter.com/FraudKrew
the streams are here: https://www.twitch.tv/robotboombox

FeLo_Llop

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#27 September 10, 2023, 09:18:57 pm

¡Ni p*ta ni santa! ¡Digo!

O'm a believer myself and the message of Christ os easy to understand: LOVE AND RESPECT. We respect your choice, but don't talk about our souls, please. Catholicism has evolved

I swear there was something cool here!!

Kamekaze

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#28 September 10, 2023, 10:52:57 pm

Sr. Black Person
Mess with the chuchu you get the pewpew

So rather than getting an answer from him you're assuming he'd say no and you're a bad person by default. Not even giving the benefit of the doubt? Aight bet.

Want to feel useful for a useless show? click here
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Hahahah fuck you photobucket.

Amidweiz

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#29 September 11, 2023, 02:57:37 am

Hey four stars, whatever that means

Roman55 said, September 10, 2023, 08:52:03 pm

Amidweiz said, September 10, 2023, 08:18:34 pm
Regarding Moriya that was actually him. But only because some of the games hosted were on Steam by that point. Far as I know anything not on there is fair game (or at least he's willing to look away).

I figured that was the case.

Kamekaze said, September 10, 2023, 10:52:57 pm

So rather than getting an answer from him you're assuming he'd say no and you're a bad person by default. Not even giving the benefit of the doubt? Aight bet.

Not sure why you didn't quote rice since this comes off as confusing without it, but to add to this there is folly to rice and shame not specifically knowing what your priests answer is

Ricepigeon said, September 10, 2023, 06:24:30 pm

Re: permissions; I have strong doubts that he would allow it due to the guidelines that I previously stated and I feel that the language barrier would provide an additional obstacle, so I felt the best course of action for now was to simply respect his wishes. That's not even mentioning the music assets that were being used, many of which were from various sources, which provides an additional complication.

Again an assumption of what ZUN thinks rather than actual quoted evidence, since the opposite seems true than not. You even stated that said C&D was fake.

Request thread/Edits thread

extravagant

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#30 September 11, 2023, 05:54:41 am

I understand and respect your decision to go, but I don't think throwing religion and the commandments into the mix correlates at all. If anything, that shouldn't be your main reason of going, because it just doesn't make any sense and if feelings change you'd just come back. However, you needing to leave for personal work/life/etc, that is much more understandable. Actually, if it were to be a religious thing, I would say it's understandable if it was a "glutton by guilt" like you were doing too much MUGEN stuff and lacking in personal responsibilities and other areas, THAT is more understandable. Not the whole stealing thing. But, take care man, you've been a big name for a good amount of years.

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UMT Season #3 - 1st Place
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NorCal Crab Battle CvS2 - 2nd Place

Umezono

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#31 September 11, 2023, 07:08:09 am

Ricepigeon, do whatever you feel is best, but you're not a missionary. You're not "saving souls," you're making a personal decision for your own self-satisfaction. I know you're old enough to know the difference. I wouldn't mind too much about people salty you took down your creations, chances are most of your publicly released stuff is backed up anyways. In fact, I am sure the indignation mostly stems from losing access to content more than any supposed ideological slight here. Be that as it may, your post lacks self-awareness and you should stop trying to justify your actions as altruistic.

Amidweiz said, September 11, 2023, 02:57:37 am

Not sure why you didn't quote rice since this comes off as confusing without it, but to add to this there is folly to rice and shame not specifically knowing what your priests answer is

I know you're just googling random scripture to try and make your point, but that is not what Proverbs 18:13 is saying.

Everyone should cool off a bit on trying to contradict his faith, rather than pointing out his misapplication. People in this thread are just trying to one-up Christianity itself rather than Ricepigeon, and its a little silly.

Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 07:13:34 am by Umezono

bass30655

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#32 September 11, 2023, 03:39:35 pm

I am going to miss your touhou characters, hope you do well and enjoy whatever you do in the future

Genosan742

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#33 September 11, 2023, 05:36:45 pm

Is a joke

Well, I will be wishing you good luck in your future endeavors, Ricepigeon.

Kernel panic

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#34 September 11, 2023, 06:57:51 pm

MI forever

Someone closed "[NSFW] Cosplay can be HOT, or NOT!"... thats an end of era for me...

Mr. Nate said, July 02, 2015, 03:21:15 am

http://mabskmk.webs.com/mugen.htm
I just recently discovered his Mugen Site, and it's a gold mine!

https://mabskmk.github.io/

Sean Altly

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#35 September 11, 2023, 09:54:58 pm

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Damn, imagine dying and waking up in hell because you made the 138th version of CVS2 Ryu

Anyway you do what's best for you, good luck

Download Last Bout now!

Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 09:59:56 pm by Sean Altly

Kazagami

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#36 September 13, 2023, 03:56:48 am

I'd pity you, but im unable to feel pity for the person who trampled all over the hard work that i put together amidst mourning of my then recently passed away dad. Bye

Add me at Kazagami#7568 for an invite link to the WaifuLaifu Discord Server

OroCrimson

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#37 September 13, 2023, 05:16:12 am

Umezono said, September 11, 2023, 07:08:09 am

People in this thread are just trying to one-up Christianity itself rather than Ricepigeon, and its a little silly.

I think part of this is its really hard for us atheists to wrap our heads around when people make choices to destroy something or someone over a mythology we ourselves believe to be fictional.

TurnPile

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#38 September 13, 2023, 05:20:41 am

仮面ライダーグランドジオウ
The Scavenging Time and Space God

OroCrimson said, September 13, 2023, 05:16:12 am

Umezono said, September 11, 2023, 07:08:09 am
People in this thread are just trying to one-up Christianity itself rather than Ricepigeon, and its a little silly.

I think part of this is its really hard for us atheists to wrap our heads around when people make choices to destroy something or someone over a mythology we ourselves believe to be fictional.

Ugh...I don't think a lot of us are atheists (I'm a bit spiritual myself as a matter of fact), I think the problem is that he is retiring with his uberstrict religious beliefs and then passing his opinions onto US and kinda doubling down in that post at the top ain't helping.
Now please let us not have a slapfight over religion.

Meldo

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#39 September 13, 2023, 02:29:25 pm

the strongest motherfucker on the planet

Kazagami said, September 13, 2023, 03:56:48 am

I'd pity you, but im unable to feel pity for the person who trampled all over the hard work that i put together amidst mourning of my then recently passed away dad. Bye

didn't you tear down those threads yourself and took full accountability for logging on to a global mod's account to vandalise the backups of said threads to prevent them from being preserved in the first place? I'm not defending RicePigeon in any way and his recent opinions are obviously a testament to that, but what made you think you'd be validated for continuously attempting to stretch the truth?

Mediafire Backup Thread / Palette Thread / Open Source FX / MUGEN Full Game Database

Last Edit: September 13, 2023, 04:45:02 pm by Meldo Wiseau

PotS

Re: End of an Era (2007-2023)

#40 September 15, 2023, 07:45:42 pm

I think you're doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. But still the right thing. All the best.

You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.

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