The Mugen Fighters Guild - Synn 1.02c from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#21 January 02, 2009, 03:53:44 am

Candy Princess

Doggiedoo said, January 02, 2009, 03:30:03 am

Anyone who updated using the patch might want to redownload it; I forgot to include the .air file. Only effects the Fire Bolt. I need to stop multitasking while updating stuff.

Will work on those extra moves; the lightning one may take some time to find appropriate sprites for, but the avalanche-roar should be simple.

The lightning would be pretty easy.

Just use one of the D&D thunder spell sprites. The dark elf boss used that attack. Like, she fires a flashing sphere of her hand (you could probably use a color swap of the flare spell for that), and alot of those lightning effects go around on the floor for a minute. It should work, I think.
I would go for a sphere or something before the lightning appears on the floor, though. Otherwise it might make the attack seem too static.

Another thing you might want to consider is giving her a boss health bar at the bottom of the screen like D&D had. Since she pretty much blocks the normal bars for most packs, it might be a nice touch. I would make it removable, though. Since it wouldn't look right with a pack that uses powerbars at the bottom of the screen.

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#22 January 02, 2009, 07:13:53 pm

Candy Princess

Some other feedback.

1- The pull on her side fire breath (I haven't noticed the being off screen/it not pulling issue anymore, weird) is currently too powerful. I can literally stand there and the air flow will yank me under her chin to safety.
This move should just pull you slowly toward her face to prevent you from being able to stand far away, but not with such force you'd go under her chin before the fire hits you.
2- Her mid screen fire breath could use some pull a few ticks after the fire gets unleashed to punish people who try to simply hop to the side and then stand. (You could also add it for the duration of the move so the player has to keep moving away to avoid being dragged in. I think D&D might have had that? Can't remember for the life of me)

For her rockslide you could spice it up a bit if you wanted. By giving her a few different patterns, like you'll see shadows on the floor, and need to move to an area without shadows to avoid being smashed by the smoldering debris crumbling down from the ceiling. (Although I'd still be sure to have the side "safe" Zones always get hit to avoid you being able to linger in that area to easily avoid her inferno)

I would add the dazed effect she and flamestrike had from D&D. In the game once you hit them enough to cause the daze (which you currently have) their head would fall downward a bit (sort of at the height of the initial strike of the bite move) which allowed you to combo them for a few seconds and really beat the shit out of them. Although, don't allow the daze to trigger when she's already dazed like D&D did. In game you could literally keep beating the shit out of her face for almost an entire healthbar before she'd finally escape. I would add some sort of invincibility time starting from the second she gets dazed to about 8/10 seconds after she recovers in which she can't be dazed again to prevent high damage combo/super spam to keep her unable to fight back.
This would help volumes, because right now Synn is never weak to assault at all. Which makes fighting her extremely length and difficult. If you added ther head falling down a bit it would bridge the gap a little bit. IMO
With her new moves and the fact her AI can be turned up rather high she still should be pretty difficult, though. So I don't think it would over balance her in the wrong direction.
You also could allow the option to turn that off for those who aren't interested. Since some might prefer the style it is currently.

Cloudius

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#23 January 02, 2009, 10:21:44 pm

PSN: Cloudius12

This is a nice character. Couldn't find anything wrong with it.

PSN Gamercards

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#24 January 03, 2009, 07:43:39 pm

Candy Princess

Even more feedback!

I hope this is OK to give so much.. Don't want you to bite my face >.>"

1- I'd REALLY consider giving her a option to change her to Flamestrike. I've checked a few videos and a few sprite rips of Flamestrike a friend got for me a while back and it would be pretty easy to do it I think.
Every sprite Synn uses is the same sprite for Flamestrike except for the head sprites (which is only about 10 sprites or so I think?). So technically you could use all the SSF just with the new head sprites included. You could give two palettes (A flamestrike one and a Synn one) Which would cover color issues. And that would be it.
Otherwise, the only differences would be Flamestrike would use the cave floor from SOM presumably, and have a solid black background. Also, Flamestrike had rocks and not meteors for his "fly up" Attack. And his hand spell was just a flare/fireburst type spell instead of the meteors Synn used. (It was a slightly different animation, but it wouldn't need to be changed since Synn had a nicer one, IMO)

For move adjustments it could be,

Bite > Same
Claw Swipe > Same
Fly up > Rocks instead of meteors
Meteor spell from hand > He slams the floor with a clenched fist and tries to smash you. Seen in the video below. (He can slam with either fist or both at once)
Third eye fireball > Fire swirls in his palm and he sends it for the same effect (he had this in tower of doom) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql8GCgq8k44 - this video shows it.
Rockslide > Same thing if rocks, if not replace meteors for rocks.
Electricity on floor > None, since he was the "easier" Boss. (You could give an option to let him have it, though)
Middle fire breath > Same
Side fire breath > Same
bg fire breath > Same as Synn. In SOM his version was slow and the animation looked awkward since he'd turn his head from side to side for some strange reason. Synn's looked much better IMO
Synn ghost move > Removed. (Not really sure what he could have to equal this except a generic enrage more damage thing which he wouldn't need.)

Sorry to seem pushy. I just think it could be nice since with the update Synn is pretty much going to be as perfect as she can get. And adding Flamestrike would be really nice for those (like myself) who would enjoy a "stereotype" Dragon boss since Synn is sort of demonic. Not to mention the fact Flamestrike probably won't get made otherwise.

(You could also just make a "New" Character using the same files but replaced sprites/moves if doing the 2 in 1 wouldn't work for one reason or another)

Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 08:02:49 pm by la;MISS~FairY-!

Doggiedoo

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#25 January 04, 2009, 01:17:05 am

No prob, thought it's going to take a fair while to implement all of that.

Didn't know the Tower of Doom dragon was so different. Yeah, taking some of its attacks and giving to the Red Dragon would justify adding it. Having both dragons in one character should be possible, but they may need individual .defs if the size of their stages are different.

Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 06:21:02 am by Doggiedoo

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#26 January 04, 2009, 02:04:49 am

Candy Princess

Doggiedoo said, January 04, 2009, 01:17:05 am

No prob, thought it's going to take a fair while to impliment all of that.

Didn't know the Tower of Doom dragon was so different. Yeah, taking some of its attacks and giving to the Red Dragon would justify adding it. Having both dragons in one character should be possible, but they may need individual .defs if the size of their stages are different.

(Will edit post later; need to go out)

The TOD Red Dragon was more unique yeah. It's weird. (I would use the palette for SOM, since had nicer contrasting and wasn't as darkly colored)

In SOM he gained the bg fire blast and side fire blast. But I think he lost his fist slam move, and I don't remember if his middle fire moved anymore. (the moving probably wouldn't be such a good idea in mugen since larger bodied characters would be screwed if he used it)

I figured, I'm pretty sure the overlap only becomes a problem with things who have throw animations and stuff. (Could be wrong, though)

Doggiedoo

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#27 January 04, 2009, 06:41:28 am

One idea for the fullscreen breath/rockfall; combine them into one attack where Synn strikes the ceiling on the way up, then rocks fall until the fire is almost upon the player. Players could choose to play safe and simply block in the corner for significant chip damage, or try to dodge as many as possible, with the risk that an unblocked rock may (apart from dealing more damage) leave them in the path of Synn's breath. This'll keep the breath interesting while retaining eye-candy for players who still want once-a-round breath.

EDIT: Just to ask, is it ok to discuss such changes here, or should talk be moved to the Projects sub-forum?

PotS

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#28 January 04, 2009, 07:04:44 am

It's alright unless you're planning to keep at it for weeks.

And IMO Red Dragon is worthy of being a separate character altogether.

You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#29 January 04, 2009, 07:10:59 am

Candy Princess

Doggiedoo said, January 04, 2009, 06:41:28 am

One idea for the fullscreen breath/rockfall; combine them into one attack where Synn strikes the ceiling on the way up, then rocks fall until the fire is almost upon the player. Players could choose to play safe and simply block in the corner for significant chip damage, or try to dodge as many as possible, with the risk that an unblocked rock may (apart from dealing more damage) leave them in the path of Synn's breath. This'll keep the breath interesting while retaining eye-candy for players who still want once-a-round breath.

EDIT: Just to ask, is it ok to discuss such changes here, or should talk be moved to the Projects sub-forum?

That idea seems interesting. Although I'll be honest, that would be grossly broken if she could use her fire without any limitation. Personally I always sort of hated bosses that have attacks you can't avoid or force you to take damage somehow. And in the case of a boss like Synn that could make her borderline impossible for alot of stuff since she's already a very challenging boss. I've primarily fought her with bastard characters as that game had similar gameplay to KOD/D&D and even though I can consistently beat her with a few different characters she still pretty much slaughters me if I slack off. And with her anti ground move and presumably enhanced fire I'd be horrified at the idea of her having anything I couldn't avoid. (Her claw swipe is almost there right now sometimes)
This would be moot if the rocks weren't "that" Hard to avoid, though. But instead the type of move where you either that to,
A- keep cool and avoid everything and die if you fuck it up
B- just take alot of damage but not risk death
If that were the case I LOVE that idea myself. It's much better than the random appearing floor or the alternate rockfall ideas, IMO.

You could also try something like,
Synn flies up and doesn't appear for a bit, during this time rocks would fall down at random and you'd have to keep moving all around to avoid them. Then as she appeared in the background they'd stop falling just before the wave of fire went past, so you'd have to make a mad dash for the corner.
Personally this idea doesn't strike my own fancy too highly. Something about it seems like it would be one of those moves where it would end up having too much going on and being too difficult to avoid for it's own good. (Or the former and too easy, depending on how fast the rocks fell, how early they stopped falling in comparison to the fire coming out, and how randomly they fell)

You could also make the wall to avoid it appear at a random location like the actual game. (you could probably have like 4 or 5 variations of the attack with proper gaps in the hitbox for the fire at the wall which would be selected at random any time she preformed the attack). That way when she used the move you'd have no idea where to go to hide until just before the fire went past. (I would make the wall only appear just before her fire is unleashed unlike D&D which had it appear as she was flying away, giving you ample time to evade the attack)

If you were going to go for random walls you should probably exclude her rockslide entirely and give that move to flamestrike.(It might make a bit more sense for him, anyway. Since his fly up move already had rocks and he's fought inside his lair which is presumably rock, too. Whereas Synn is confronted in a palace) Since it would probably be somewhat redundant for her to have another move like the meteors and it would no longer be serving as a buff by proxy for her background fire breath anyway.

If her fire is going to become more dangerous you'd probably want to give the option to limit the usage on it.
I'd suggest giving two options,
1- She uses her fire 3 times per round (accurate to the game) - in place of the once per right now. You could go further and make it at 75%, 50%, 25% health to prevent her using them one after another, as the round starts, as she's about to die, ect. The actual angle of the attack remaining random, though.
2- She can use her fire normally as a special (custom)

Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 07:20:22 am by la;MISS~FairY-!

Doggiedoo

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#30 January 04, 2009, 12:09:43 pm

Cool, thanks PotS! I'll try to make this (one of) my last posts until new content is released.

I'm probably going for the blockable rocks/breath combo, with a number of rocks that doesn't make it much more dangerous than the other breath types. Most of the rocks will be in the corners to discourage players going in and turtling immediately, but failing to block a hit outside the corners may make it impossible to reach them in time. So players can either A: stay in the corners blocking (highest chip damage but easiest option), B: stay in the middle blocking, and then head to the corners (lower chip damage, need some timing and speed), or C: dodge as many rocks as possible, attempting to block the undodgeable ones (lowest/zero chip damage, need significant skill and an agile character).

Plenty of ideas; time to get cracking.

Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 12:13:35 pm by Doggiedoo

CookDaXapper

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#31 January 09, 2009, 01:04:33 am

from a bayou somewhere in Louisiana...

what needs to be said that hasn't been already; except thank you for your timeless effort. if only all of us could dedicate such time to this wonderful hobby. your skill is inspiring and Synn is fantastic, begging the idea of the Red dragon. Man, you got me wanting to do some sprite rips,...... i need more time in the day.....Peace.

[img resized=1 width= height= alt=my biceps are full of tiger goodness]http://hotlink.myspacecdn.com/images01/114/943358e89a6dcc43d2295f2a0fa3ad6a/m.jpg[/img]

Alkanphel

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

#32 January 09, 2009, 04:40:51 am

Fairy and others already gave awesome critiques and suggestions, all I can say is thanks for making an awesome character. This dragon goes well with the other "monster" chars you've done, so it's real nice to see stuff in mugen being made besides "the usual".

Doggiedoo

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

#33 January 09, 2009, 10:32:41 am

Synn updated to 1.02, see first post for changelog (it's quite large).

No Flamestrike yet (that's still WIP), but most of the suggested changes have been implemented in some way. An exception was locking the side breath to the corner of the screen; dodging it (for most characters) is a simple matter of following her breath, and it turned out there were some characters (such as Hauzer) that couldn't dodge it at all if not allowed to move off screen. Instead, the vacuum effect was adjusted (stronger at long range, weaker close) and falling rocks were added to both the side and full screen breaths.

Speaking of which, the rocks still have room for improvement; unless you have machine-like reflexes, it's too difficult to dodge them all on reaction. Their tick damage has been lowered in light of this, and it is still possible to escape unharmed, but attempts to make them more easily evadable (slowing them down, adding shadows) made them feel unnatural. May consider replacing them entirely with a different projectile type.

Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 11:14:54 am by Doggiedoo

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

#34 January 09, 2009, 07:21:39 pm

Candy Princess

Synn is much, much nicer now. It's so nice to see her freely use her fire! (like the dragons should have in game ~_~ ) I also LOVE what you did with her lightning.

I have only two suggestions,

1- Give the ability to disable her ghost attack in round 2. In addition, that move should be altered so after she breathes fire the spirit simply returns without her having to cast the move again.(You could either give the option to change to this or just adjust the move across the board, I don't think it would make much difference either way) Right now in round two if you have the fire available as a special, she'll be stuck recasting that move quite a bit exposing her to take alot of damage. I found that beating her in round two was actually easier because of this.
Instead, I'd have her cast the move only at the start of the round and then again when it's duration expires,

2- I admit something about the rocks on her fire feels a bit "off". I'm not entirely sure what it is, though. Unfortunately I have no idea what a better way of including that would be since as you said the alternatives don't sound all that amazing, either.
I can say I like them alot more than the game version, though. I died several times because the rocks knocked me into her fire breath, and afterward I was sort of nervous seeing the attack because of that. (Unlike in game where I wasn't remotely intimidated at all)
I think it's probably best to leave that move alone. Since the rock feature can be turned off, anyway.

What do you think the timeframe for the Red Dragon will be? I presume he's coming soon/next?

I'd also like to note, this character is another example of why you're absolutely my favorite authors in mugen. I really hope people reading this and enjoying your works are grateful for what you do. Because you absolutely deserve every bit of it. (Even more so now with how stale alot of the releases have become)

Doggiedoo

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

#35 January 10, 2009, 01:16:39 am

I was lucky to find some good niches is all, especially given how long Mugen's been around.

Red should be done in a week (hopefully sooner); there's been a few unexpected commitments lately (+ on and off work on Kongou, to break tedium), so I'm assuming there'll be further interruptions.

For now, the spirit can be disabled by ~~changing [State AI, Simulacrum] to type = null in Synn.cmd~~ removing the [State AI, Simulacrum] controller completely.

Next version will have extra options to control it as described, to will be released beside Flamestrike if he stays on schedule.

Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 07:51:32 am by Doggiedoo

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

#36 January 10, 2009, 08:54:43 am

Candy Princess

Awesome. I hope so!

Quick suggestion for the moveset for the red one (did a bit more research),

Bite - same as synn
Swipe - same as synn
flame breath stuff - same as synn
rockslide - like synn's meteor fall but with rocks
SOM flare - functions similarly to synn's meteor hand spell. The difference would be judging from videos,
The one handed version would release a small fireball which ignites on the floor, then grows into a moderate sized flame pillar which would move to the left (left hand version) or right (right hand version) then disappear. With both hands the pillars would move to the right and left respectively, forcing you to either be far away or stand directly under his face to avoid the attack.
TOD flare - fire swirls around in his palm and then flies toward you. (the same thing as synn's third eye flare basically)
Slam (from tod, slightly altered) - he slams his fist on the ground and shakes the screen a bit, this causes you to fall and isn't blockable. It's basically synn's shock floor attack except quite a bit faster, and would look almost like he's going to swipe you in the first couple frames of animation.
In TOD he'd slowly raise his fist, which I'd change because it looked goofy and made the attack too easily avoided. (You could also give him a slower and faster version which would perhaps be the most dangerous choice)

I'd also give his original text intro and winpose from TOD. (the winpose being for round two only)

Think I posted the same in thing for a concept, but I figured this was much less cluttered sooo.

Can't wait for him, and if I can help let me know. :]

Cybaster

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

#37 January 10, 2009, 03:18:35 pm

Limited time to use Infinite power !

Wow, after the first release, I didn't think this character could get so much better. Thank you Doggiedoo for such a nice work, and thank you La Miss Fairy for al these ideas.

I came across a little bug though. Synn's hands both go blocked (they weren't moving at all anymore), while Synn continued moving and fighting :

Rajaa Retired

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

#38 January 10, 2009, 03:42:53 pm

Just posting to say, that this is a very enjoyable character to fight. Very wlel put together; the Ai knows how to keep you on and off you feet when it nees to, without doing an extreme amount of damage.Great work DoogieDoo Very! great work.

Doggiedoo

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

#39 January 10, 2009, 04:15:09 pm

Developers note: when a helper's movetype = A, it processes before the root player in a given tick, not after. Whoops.

Bug is caused by hitting her with a super attack in the middle of her claw swipe. Fixing asap.

EDIT: Update released:

Quote

-1.02b:
-Fixed arms freezing if Synn is hit with a super
attack during her claw swipe.
-Simulacrum now returns automatically after breaths.
-NOTE: There were also some minor sprite issues
fixed, but these are not included in the patch
since they're hardly noticeable. To get this fix,
download the 1.02b full archive and replace her
synn.sff file

Her .cmd still needs to be modified to remove the 2nd round simulacrum, for now; didn't feel it fair to overwrite everyone's config.txt for that setting alone, when there's another viable way to go about it.

For the curious, the sprite issue is that the upper part of one of her arm sprites is slightly miscoloured; it only became apparent when rebuilding the palette for the Red Dragon.

Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 05:39:39 pm by Doggiedoo

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

#40 January 10, 2009, 07:12:29 pm

Candy Princess

Some more Red Dragon move ideas!
1- He summons three skeleton warriors (presumably slain warriors who failed in defeating him) who walk around and attack you. They can be killed, though. (Alien queen had a similar move where she'd summon young aliens, you could probably check her code if interested), This would be in round two. (probably should only happen once to keep it more climatic, probably during his intro)
2- In round 2 just before he loses (at low health) he'd roar and begin to inhale and shake the screen, rocks would begin to fall in the background. After enough time passed (probably about 5 seconds or so) he'd unleash a fire attack and quickly move back and fourth from side to side, killing you.
Basically this would be an attack to destroy you for taking too long to defeat him. So at the very end you'd have to win very quickly or be killed.

Another thing is I'd discard the notion he has to be weaker than Synn in some way. In all honestly the SOM "Red Dragon" was a shitty, shitty boss.(The two new flame attacks were nice, although they were so easy to avoid. Luckily your version will lack that problem hm?

) The TOD version (Flamestrike/flamewing I forget Hm - anywho) was actually quite a bit more difficult than Synn was IMO. (He also boasted better sprite shading, I thought it was the SOM version as mentioned in earlier posts but I was wrong, - and music) Although, I would use his SOM stage which was quite a bit nicer IMO.
If anything he'd probably should be harder than Synn is. Because he's a normal classic dragon and pays homage to other bosses like Gildiss.

God's Anger said, January 10, 2009, 03:18:35 pm

Wow, after the first release, I didn't think this character could get so much better. Thank you Doggiedoo for such a nice work, and thank you La Miss Fairy for al these ideas.

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Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

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Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

Re: Synn 1.00b from D&D: SoM (+ other characters Patched)

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)

Re: Synn 1.02 from D&D: SoM (+ other characters patched)