Kaguya Houraisan beta

[Seravy]

http://seravy.x10.mx/Wordpress

This is a beta release intended for testing purposes. If you do not want to test and provide feedback, keep waiting until the next update.

[Ricepigeon]

You might wanna take a look at the resurrection again

     Posted: May 15, 2013, 04:10:14 AM
5A -> 6Z -> 5A -> 6Z -> 5A -> 6Z -> repeat ad infinitum in corner

Oh and her 5A is +10 on hit with 4 frame startup, which is whats causing this.

[Seravy]

I didn't understand what bugged resurrection at first while watching that video, then I realized you are refilling her powerbar every time and it works as intended.
9000 power = 900 life gain on resurrection. 1000 power=100 life, etc
I'll see in actual playing if that's balanced or not but it's by far the least effective way of healing on the character, so I expect it to work well.

I'm not sure how you did that infinite when the forward dash has 10 ticks of no control at the start but I've reduced the hittime on A anyway, 10 advantage was unnecessary. Edit : oh yes, the dashes can be cancelled into normals, that's why.

[Ricepigeon]

The point I was trying to illustrate was that her resurrection behaves oddly when done from after custom states. In the case of the demon, she gets up and falls back down again, and with youkai armageddon she even falls out of the custom state at the very beginning of the attack.

Oh and the fact she can do it more than once per round, which is what I illustrating by refilling the bars every time. Gill and Phoenix both have this limitation, yet Kaguya doesn't? Not to mention Gill could be hit out of his and Phoenix had piss poor health to offset this ability (as well as other reasons).

Also I should add that hitvels dont behave properly in her resurrection states either. In the video, an air light attack sends her flying toward the opponent. Further testing shows that some attacks that knock her down don't apply their X hitvels during the resurrection.

[Seravy]

Gill and Phoenix both have this limitation, yet Kaguya doesn't?

She doesn't. It's a somewhat cost-ineffective ability and the player has no control over it (she has to revive even if it's strategically stupid and carrying over the power to the next round is better). Of course this needs more testing but so far in AI vs AI matches I observed she was able to lose normally without problems, even though the AI intentionally stops spending power at low health. Simply the 100-200 health she gets back is not enough to let her reach 1000 power again if the opponent manages to hit her right away. I don't know Gill/Phoenix but I assume the limitation is necessary there because they restore themselves to maximum health for only 3000? That's 3.3 times more cost efficient.
It will need testing of course, especially considering that one of the Skill cards upgrades this ability.

The resurrection code is in state -3 as it should be, so it has no effect on custom states, other than asserting noKO, which is necessary and should have no effect.
She does have a state change to force falling from any non-custom state if the life hits 0 because the resurrection happens when she is down. I'll check if nulling the state change fixes the problems. It probably activates on hit before the opponent can apply the targetstate due to processing order.

[Ricepigeon]

Gill and Phoenix both have this limitation, yet Kaguya doesn't?

She doesn't. It's a somewhat cost-ineffective ability and the player has no control over it (she has to revive even if it's strategically stupid and carrying over the power to the next round is better). Of course this needs more testing but so far in AI vs AI matches I observed she was able to lose normally without problems, even though the AI intentionally stops spending power at low health. Simply the 100-200 health she gets back is not enough to let her reach 1000 power again if the opponent manages to hit her right away.

From my own testing I've found out the contrary.

I don't know Gill/Phoenix but I assume the limitation is necessary there because they restore themselves to maximum health for only 3000? That's 3.3 times more cost efficient.
It will need testing of course, especially considering that one of the Skill cards upgrades this ability.

Phoenix restores herself to maximum, as well as triggers Dark Phoenix mode, which upgrades most of her attacks to include additional projectiles. To offset this, she only had 375,000 health as opposed to the average 1,000,000 health, giving her effectively 750,000 health total (420,000 and 840,000 in vanilla MvC3). Hers is also a level 5 super (the maximum in MvC3/UMvC3). She also slowly loses health in Dark Phoenix mode until she reaches 1 health.

In Gill's case, he also restores to full health, but he can be hit out of the recovery frames of the attack, so that he restores less health. He also pushes the opponent away from him while he's doing so. Gill's super meter is also fixed at 0 after resurrecting so he can't use any more supers for the rest of the round. Gill also has 1300 health as opposed to Ryu's 1200 (which in mugen would be normalized to 1084 and 1000, respectively). Gill's Resurrection is also a level 1 super, but all he has is one power stock.

[Seravy]

After going through arcade mode difficulty 6 once, I have to say the resurrection ability is pretty good, but not omnipotent. I was quite close to losing several times even with it. Probably would have lost if it was level 8. Will continue testing it.
Limiting it to one use is not an option because it is the main theme of the character and there is a skill card specifically for upgrading this ability, but I can adjust the cost/lifegain ratio, raise the minimum power required to 2000 or add other restrictions.
While the health for power ratio of lv4 resurrection is worse than a memorized lv1 Recovery that every character has, resurrection does have two important advantages, it limits the amount of damage you can take in a combo because you can't go below 0, and it's easy to use because it's automatic.

Removing the state change to fall in -3 seems to have worked without problems. This should fix any issues with custom state attacks and velocities caused by resurrection.

Meanwhile, I have nerfed the barrier regeneration on Unmovable-Hikkikomori-, it was way too powerful.
Also fixed some guard distance issues, and enabled chaining other danmaku moves after D+x so the hit duration on it now has a use. Added more dampening to Moondust Meteor as well, and reduced the extra damage/level on it.

Edit : Uploading the updated version, download link is the same.

[Ricepigeon]

Limiting it to one use is not an option because it is the main theme of the character and there is a skill card specifically for upgrading this ability, but I can adjust the cost/lifegain ratio, raise the minimum power required to 2000 or add other restrictions.

It may be the main theme for Kaguya, but its also the main theme for Mokou as well, yet that didn't stop authors such as Kohaku and myself from restricting the resurrection to only once per round. What you're saying is almost tantamount to DBZ authors making their creations accurate to the manga/anime.

While the health for power ratio of lv4 resurrection is worse than a memorized lv1 Recovery that every character has, resurrection does have two important advantages, it limits the amount of damage you can take in a combo because you can't go below 0, and it's easy to use because it's automatic.

Except a resurrection is supposed to be more of a high-risk, high-reward type of move. In all instances where this move appears (SF3, MvC3, and ABK) it requires a full power bar (high risk) for the ability to restore health upon death (high reward). And if you die in the middle of a combo, you still take the remaining hits. As it is now, she can drop out of the opponent's combo.

[TrinitroRoy]

While I like the way you go with Kaguya (except for the ressurection being not limited), I sadly cannot test her, since your website isn't working again...
...ever thought about moving to MFG?

[Seravy]

There was a server maintenance at the morning but the site works currently, try again.
No one has invited me to have my characters on MFG yet, but the problem is not with that part anyway.
My characters are hosted on Mugen Evolution, problems there are not that common there, it's the web host, x10 that is down often. I'm satisfied with ME, it's been a year or two since I last saw ME down.
Now I started to think about why I even needed x10 when I have ME then I realized it's for the SQL/Database/PHP etc support. Those are kinda necessary to have anything more than just a plain html site.

After clearing difficulty 8 on the first try, literally being unable to die, I think there will be some sort of nerf to resurrection.
It'll most likely not be a passive but an ability gained by the appropriate Skill card, and it will function the way it does now only when upgraded to level 4. Levels 1-3 will be weaker, how exactly I don't know.

However, I do intend her resurrection to be a "Low cost-Low reward" ability. High risk on a character defining ability isn't something I would want, as a lot of players ignore high risk abilities altogether and aim for playing the "safe" way. Healing type abilities -which resurrection is- are generally even less attractive to players when risk is involved because staying alive instead of outright winning the game doesn't feel all that "high reward".
If I had a choice of including a high risk attack spellcard in the deck I play that hits for 500 or a high risk resurrection that heals to max for the same cost, with both having the same chance to fail, I would go with the attack, and I believe most players would, too. Succeeding with the attack will win a round when used on an enemy below 500 health. Succeeding to heal to max merely means staying alive. In case of the attack, I have to fight well enough to do 500 damage before reaching 0 myself once, then hit with the attack. In case of the resurrection, I have to be able to do that 500 damage twice, from double my own health, which is twice as much effort if the enemy is better than me (if they aren't, it doesn't matter what I use anyway). Numerically, healing for 1000 is better than doing 500 damage but from the player's viewpoint, it is usually not.

[TrinitroRoy]

Yep, now it works.
Will try out Kaguya later.

[Seravy]

This is what I came up with for Resurrection :

Passive Ability : Immortal
When reaching 0 health, lose all your power and gain life equal to the power lost/10.
Works once each round unless upgraded.
Level 1 : Resurrect at 1000 or higher power with 10% of the power restored as health, lose all power. Can activate once every 25 seconds.
Level 2 : Resurrect at 1000 or higher power with 10% of the power restored as health, lose all power. Can activate once every 20 seconds.
Level 3 : Resurrect at 1000 or higher power with 10% of the power restored as health, lose all power. Can activate once every 15 seconds.
Level 4 : Resurrect at 1000 or higher power with 10% of the power restored as health, lose all power. Can activate again as soon as you have enough power.

I will play one more game with this version then re-upload.

[TrinitroRoy]

Sounds cool.

[Seravy]

Reuploaded.

Changes :
-The bamboo attack on the c button now spreads out more and does higher guarded damage/hit. The angle is slightly adjusted based on the height where the attack is used. When used on ground level, it'll spread forward and up, while up in the air it'll spread downward and forward, more downward as the height rises. This will make it have a different use than the y button which is still focused towards forward only.
-DDx (Moondust Meteor) is now available to be used while in the air.
-Resurrection updated to match the above description. Is short you have to upgrade it 4 times to get back the old default effect, which makes it very expensive for VS games but still useful for Arcade.
-Resurrection is now compatible with Seravy's Pretty Sammy summon (sadly, immortality and fail-proof instant kills don't mix well, I have to create exceptions to turn off the resurrection abilities during this otherwise the character gets stuck which is not good especially as Kaguya can freeze the timer.)

By the way, I wonder how much max timer people usually play on. Instant Eternity is a whole lot more effective if the time for the round is set too low. I play with 199 time and it's quite weak there, it's probably most fair at around 99.

[Ricepigeon]

Win by Time Over sold separately
     Posted: May 16, 2013, 06:21:09 AM

now its gone in the complete opposite direction

[Seravy]

Confirmed the bug caused by the interaction of Unmovable-Hikkikomori- and Life Spring Eternity.
Will fix by allowing Y movement and only freezing X. Will also disable jump while Unmovable is in effect.

Okay, I guess the state change in the common states that forces a fall when dead isn't reliable afterall. I just happened to always be falling already when dying, I guess.
Will add a fall changestate to -3 again this time triggering on having control instead of being hit.

Edit : It works now but it's kinda stupid to see her stand up from Lie's attack then fall down again. Your custom state skips the lying down (5110) state where the resurrection happens. I guess I can just force a state change from 5120 when dead as well.

[Ricepigeon]

Edit : It works now but it's kinda stupid to see her stand up from Lie's attack then fall down again. Your custom state skips the lying down (5110) state where the resurrection happens.

Which is why I tested it with GM and PotS's Akuma/ShinAkuma as well, so it's not just Lie. Was gonna include Warusaki's Akuma as well but I think I got the point across.

[Seravy]

Another update uploaded.
-Resurrection limits now work properly
-Moondust Meteor is now launched a bit further from the character to prevent abusing it with Unmovable (it stopped the opponent at the position where Meteor hits)
-Removed some debug spam
-DFc now costs 20% bar instead of 40%
-The DDy barrier now blocks only magical attacks, and the effect is suspended while the character is guarding or grazing (so guarding or grazing a projectile will not use up your barrier)
-The DDy barrier removal timer now resets on all hits, so it's removed after 20 ticks of no incoming hits instead of 20 ticks after the first incoming hit.
-Eirin now appears behind Kaguya after being summoned instead of front
-Full Moon blast now has a faster animation cooldown and the projectiles come out 16 ticks earlier

[Ricepigeon]

Was going to post this but I see theres another update. Haven't tested the update yet but:

• Alot of effects seem to be missing proper transparencies.
• D+c (as well as Bamboo Forest) can hit the opponent while the bamboo stalks are disappearing
• Bamboo Forest seems way too overpowered as it doesn't end until round is over
• Buddha's Bowl seems to regenerate health too quickly, especially when coupled with Eirin. Honestly I'd limit the former to restoring only red health (which while not visible in Mugen the effect can at least be emulated)
• QCF+x has 14 startup, 21 active, 0 recovery, has range and is unblockable (command grab?)
• QCF+b has -145 frame advantage on block. I don't think I've seen a move that unsafe. Honestly feel as if it should move her forward a bit during use and maybe cut down the animation timing

[Seravy]

QCF+b has -145 frame advantage on block. I don't think I've seen a move that unsafe. Honestly feel as if it should move her forward a bit during use and maybe cut down the animation timing

This move is intentionally weak because she is supposed to be bad at physical combat. Moving forward sounds like a good idea, I think I'll experiment with that. The only purpose of this attack is to surprise the opponent or to get past abilities that give immunity to magic.

QCF+x has 14 startup, 21 active, 0 recovery, has range and is unblockable (command grab?)

Yes, this is pretty much a throw equivalent, a sleep status effect spell. It does no damage but you can hit them with anything you want after they are sleeping. It cannot be used if the enemy is in a hit state to prevent infinites, but it can be used if they are guarding. The range felt excessive during testing so it will be reduced. Especially because it's very overpowered if it can reach the enemy from inside the Unmovable barrier.
Recovery feels unnecessary for this, if they aren't in range, they have 36 ticks to do anything they want, and if they are in range, they will be sleeping through the recovery anyway.

Buddha's Bowl seems to regenerate health too quickly, especially when coupled with Eirin. Honestly I'd limit the former to restoring only red health (which while not visible in Mugen the effect can at least be emulated)

This is a high risk ability that stops when taking a hit. It needs to be efficient in other to be worth taking the risk compared to other, no-risk healing abilities. I haven't got to the point of testing it yet so I only know that it was working reasonably in AI Vs AI matches. I guess this is the next card to test in my Arcade mode deck. Eirin seems to have worked well.

Bamboo Forest seems way too overpowered as it doesn't end until round is over

It's a stage card, those are not supposed to end. Several of my characters have one like this. They are decent but the projectiles appear randomly so they are unreliable. While they are a potentially great investment for long matches, they do next to nothing to avoid a quick loss from an aggressive opponent unless you are lucky enough to have a projectile interrupt their combo regularly. Kaguya is a stalling character so it's probably more effective for her than others, but it generates projectiles less frequently than similar abilities on other characters. Will test the card of course, I haven't had the chance to use it yet.

D+c (as well as Bamboo Forest) can hit the opponent while the bamboo stalks are disappearing

Will fix this.

Alot of effects seem to be missing proper transparencies.

I haven't observed this. Which effects do you mean? Are you using 1.0 or 1.1 Mugen? There might be differences in handling transparency between the two versions.

Edit : There is a new resurrection bug that makes it fail altogether in this version. Will be fixed in the next upload.