Yamori X's Projects: SvC EX???

[yamme]

Alright so, I've decided to make a WIP thread to garner more opinions and ideas for my stuff, which I feel might help me progress and improve. As most of you reading may know, I have a custom char style of my own, but recently I've come to realize that it's sort of sloppy and bland, so I've decided to try and rework it, add more to it and make it more solid.

From the beginning, my initial idea was to make sort of a mix between Vampire Savior and Street Fighter EX (my two favorite Capcom fighters), and now I feel I should expand on that. So far, as you probably expected, Lilith will be the first char to test this style revamp.



What I have done so far:
- Prepared sprite FX
- Made Aesthetic changes from EX moves to ES moves
- Hitsound registration changes
- Changed Super commands to match SFEX, with a few exceptions
- Removed Aerial Raves and Launcher
- Combo System changes (in progress)

What I have in mind:
- Vampire Savior's combo system
- Vampire Savior's ES moves
- Street Fighter EX's Guard Breaker
- Street Fighter EX's Supers and Super Cancel combos
- MvC Guard-push
- Throw teching (reference game in debate)

So the main thing I have done is to remove those strange tiny Air Combos and Launchers. The more I analyzed them, and after just releasing  MvC Lilith, the more tacky it seemed to me. The rest of the changes are a bit minor.

So, now for the main reason in posting this: your opinions and ideas. What do you think? Anything you think I should / shouldn't do? Suggestions? I'd appreciate it very much.

TL;DR My custom gameplay style sucks and I want your ideas to help me improve it, with Lilith being the main test char.

[JustNoPoint]

 Vampire Savior's ES moves
Street Fighter EX's Supers and Super Cancel combos

Explain a bit more how this will work.

So ES attacks will be more akin to stronger EX attacks?

Will super moves have super pause?
How will cancelling Lilith's super moves form into a combo? Or will they not be her EX moves from Savior?

[yamme]

Vampire Savior's ES moves
Street Fighter EX's Supers and Super Cancel combos

Explain a bit more how this will work.

So ES attacks will be more akin to stronger EX attacks?

Will super moves have super pause?
How will cancelling Lilith's super moves form into a combo? Or will they not be her EX moves from Savior?

To answer your questions:

Yes, ES attacks will retain that property. One question that arises is the amount of power it should take.

I plan the Supers to be more akin to SFEX's supers, so yes, they will have super pause. Her EX moves from Savior will be retained, along with custom ones.

I hope there wasn't a misunderstanding, but originally, my style had EX moves; not the Vsav variant, but rather SF3's. The change I referred to in the op was just an aesthetic change.

[【ＭＦＧ】gui0007]

Looks quite interesting.

I believe that about the Throw teching, the Street Fighter EX way will fit better:
or + or (Forward Throw)
or + or (Back Throw)

Because is more easier to do and to cancel (Throw Escape).

[yamme]

Looks quite interesting.

I believe that about the Throw teching, the Street Fighter EX way will fit better:
or + or (Forward Throw)
or + or (Back Throw)

Because is more easier to do and to cancel (Throw Escape).

Yeah, that's what I had in mind. But I was more referring to how the teching actually plays out. In Savior, the the throw techs at where the opponent is thrown, if the victim successfully teched, whereas EX has the two players push away from each other immediately when p2 techs at the moment their grabbed.

[lui]

try putting in a defensive option as well, like alpha-counters

[yamme]

try putting in a defensive option as well, like alpha-counters

Well thats what I included the guard-push in the to-do list for, unless you think an Alpha-Counter would be a better choice.

[lui]

MvC had both so why not just include both?

other than that i think the system you have planned is juuust fine, not too overly bloated with gimmicks but has enough depth to make gameplay engaging.

[yamme]

MvC had both so why not just include both?

other than that i think the system you have planned is juuust fine, not too overly bloated with gimmicks but has enough depth to make gameplay engaging.

Huh.. I don't recall MvC having Alpha-Counters.

Other than that, I plan to progress once (or if) I get some more opinions, and maybe send out a test build later to see if what you guys think works or not.

[lui]

well, 2 had them. not sure about 1 but 1 is broken as hell anyway lol

[JustNoPoint]

To note. Nothing was confusing for me. I was just trying to imagine how Lilith's EX attacks could super cancel into each other. I guess Illusion into nekid into illusion could work. and if you add new supers of course. Which you said you would.

I'm interested in how it'll turn out. Really glad you're getting away from launchers!

[Jesuszilla]

I've been meaning to really try out your Liliths and give feedback, but I might as well throw out right now that it would be a really good idea to get actual data from the games using ArtMoney or CheatEngine. It saves you time, teaches you how things work, and really brings everything together. Plus, as the saying goes, you have to learn the rules before you break them.

[yamme]

To note. Nothing was confusing for me. I was just trying to imagine how Lilith's EX attacks could super cancel into each other. I guess Illusion into nekid into illusion could work. and if you add new supers of course. Which you said you would.

I'm interested in how it'll turn out. Really glad you're getting away from launchers!

Oh, alright. For the cancels, I can think of something that'll be fun and seamless.. I hope..

Also yeah, launchers really didn't work with the way I did them. I really don't know why I even incorporated them in the first place..

I've been meaning to really try out your Liliths and give feedback, but I might as well throw out right now that it would be a really good idea to get actual data from the games using ArtMoney or CheatEngine. It saves you time, teaches you how things work, and really brings everything together. Plus, as the saying goes, you have to learn the rules before you break them.

While I am already familiar with Lilith and most of vsav's esoterics, I will not deny that digging a bit deeper will be a big help. I probably would have been doing that by now too, but I am in a rather stiff situation, using a school laptop to code and use MUGEN and stuff, so my options are very limited.

[jaede_]

While I am already familiar with Lilith and most of vsav's esoterics, I will not deny that digging a bit deeper will be a big help. I probably would have been doing that by now too, but I am in a rather stiff situation, using a school laptop to code and use MUGEN and stuff, so my options are very limited.

I can help! Remember I used these same tools for my own Morrigan and I can send CLSNs for different anims.

EDIT: Keep in mind though, for some strange reason the bottomest CLSN is wrong...

[Jesuszilla]

I fixed that recently.

[BrawlTheMan]

Would you have shitloads of super bars to work with (like in VSav)? I'd suggest a Dark Force mechanic, tho it would be kind of tough to think up some for characters that weren't in Darkstalkers.

[Niitris]

well, 2 had them. not sure about 1 but 1 is broken as hell anyway lol

1 had them too, although those required a tag partner. MSH had alpha counters like in SFA though I've never been a fan of that mechanic in general.

Gameplay sounds fine to me.

[yamme]

Would you have shitloads of super bars to work with (like in VSav)? I'd suggest a Dark Force mechanic, tho it would be kind of tough to think up some for characters that weren't in Darkstalkers.

I plan to limit the bars to 3 like in SFEX, I guess just so super cancelling doesn't get out of hand, or maybe even to prevent the spamming of guard-breakers.

As for dark force, I was never too fond of it in vsav and it always kinda felt really situational, so I most likely won't be adding that.

[Jesuszilla]

Lilith's Dark Force wasn't that great anyway if I recall correctly.

Speaking of things that weren't that great in source, if you add her pursuit attack, speed it up, because it was absolute trash in source.

[jaede_]

Lilith's Dark Force can be summed up as: Lilith makes a Clone that does everything Lilith does delayed by a second or so.
Its only advantages is that it can double up attacks such as Gloomy Puppet Show and Lumi. Illusion to inexperienced or silly players, but other than that, it's not much use.