Darkside-Ky Development Thread...Help and Guidance through the design process.

[Blade Galewind]

I'm a complete beginner at Mugen Character Design, so bear with me...

Every time I try to import sprites in Fighter Factory and apply my own custom palettes to it, things get scrambled.  I know the standard says that the background color is in the lower right corner of the palette, but everything else is just screwy.

I'm using Guilty Gear sprite rips, and also trying to import other sprite effects I've found from other mugen characters.  I'm really stuck on this part.  I'd like to create just a single universal palette to work with and get started with as far as sprites go.

In addition to this I'm looking to get some Guilty Gear related sprite and effect resources, though that's a bit too far ahead, I'd still like to be prepared.  Things like the Slashback Effect, or forcebreak effects, as well as some Elaborate to Large Lightning Sprite Effects.  I'd also like to know how to draw/create high-rez lightning sprites for myself as well.

A while ago I also asked a Japanese Mugen creator what they used to rip sprites with and he says they use a program called D-Pixed, is anyone familiar with this? http://www.vector.co.jp/soft/win95/art/se035696.html

I still want to rip sprites and sprite effects from Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus (which I own)...

[Cyanide]

Lets ignore the ripping for now.

To create a pallete, ignore fighter factory. Download the gimp, and make your pallete using that. Or if you have something more powerful like photoshop or paintshop pro, use that. Much better idea than using the fighter factory function.

There are specific rules a pallete should follow, and they are program dependant. Pallete entry 0 must be the back ground colour of your sprite. It should NOT be shared anywhere else on the sprite. This pallete should then be applied to EVERY sprite you wish to use, and change colours on via .act files.

Effects do not need to use that pallete. They can have their own provided they are placed at the end of the .sff file and have shared pallete off. They must still obey the general rules of pallete creation though. Entry 0 is the BG and 256 colours max.

Any sprites you pull from another .sff (it's nice to ask) will already have a pallete applied. and you can export, then import them without too many issues.

[Blade Galewind]

 

Well, I tried using GIMP and it seems they no longer let you save Palette .act files.

I switched over to photoshop, but I'm as lost as ever on how to organize the colors properly.

Then I went back to Fighter Factory to try working on creating palettes again and I'm still quite stuck.  Here's my problem:



As you can see, I have a lot of sprites that already share one palette, and a few sprites that share another palette altogether...

How to I make it so that they all synch up?  Do I have to do this manually through Photoshop or something?

I know how to open up and image, Optimize it, transfer the colors, move the background color to the lower right and then save the palette and apply it to the files (which converts them to PCX I guess).

But like I said, these colors are messed up and all over the place, and hard to organize to synch up because whenever I open a new one up and try to apply the palette I just saved, the colors get scrambled.

In addition to this, I have no idea how to make it so that the program identifies the background color as transparent for some bmp files, how do you do that?

[TehBazzard]

MakeAct is good for making simple ACT files. Only problem is it's limitations. One such being that it can't take pcxs of a certain size, which sux for Hi-res sprites.
Use Paint Shop pro and make a PAL file, then use Paletro or Pal2Act to convert to act.
I would like to know if GiMP no longer saves .act files!

[Bastard Mami]

It looks like your problems are caused because you refuse to stop using FF to edit palettes, use a decent program for that.

[TehBazzard]

FF is the definitive standard for editing pallets, WTF you talkin' about?
Gimme reasons why is sucks, or how others are better.
Anyways, don't use FF to make them from scratch. EVER.

[Cyanide]

FF is the definitive standard for editing pallets, WTF you talkin' about?
Gimme reasons why is sucks, or how others are better.
Anyways, don't use FF to make them from scratch. EVER.

You posted your own reason. You cannot make a pallete from scratch in FF. Nor can you alter it correctly and have it apply to all your sprites properly. I've set up palletes, properly. Used FF to recreate the .act file. And it never works. Use pal2act, put in correct place, works perfectly.

FF is NOT a pallete editor, it can, but it does it imperfectly. It also doesn't teach you shit about how a pallete works. Even if you have it set up right in FF you can STILL be doing it wrong because Fighter Factory is not an image editor!

You must have the same pallete applied to all sprites. If you have photoshop the BOTTOM RIGHT colour should be your background and it should be nowhere else in your pallete. Once you have a correct pallete (test it by adding the image) then save the pallete, and apply it to ALL your images.

There is no magic button. There are ways to speed things up, but only if you know what you're doing.

FF is NOT the goddamn definitive anything. It's useful. It's not the be all and end all. Do NOT rely on it for everything. If anyone tells you otherwise they really don't know what they're talking about and will be coming here as soon as they get stuck.

[Bastard Mami]

FF is the definitive standard for editing pallets, WTF you talkin' about?
Gimme reasons why is sucks, or how others are better.
Anyways, don't use FF to make them from scratch. EVER.

I did not know it can edit pallets, do you connect it to a robot arm or something ?

[Blade Galewind]

I'd prefer if you guys not argue about this, I just want something useful that synchronizes palettes and applies them. 

About pal2act, where could I get this, since I can't seem to find it in the resources thread...also I'm confused as to what is defined as "Color Zero" in Photoshop's palette maker.

[Cyanide]

In the index the colour contained in the bottom right of it is the colour mugen will read as transparent.

The best way to make a pallete with all the colours you want is make a katamari picture of things that contain your colours and set the pallete up like that.

Alternatively you can extract a sprite with a correct pallete. Then extract the pallete from that by saving it. After that all you do is reapply said pallete to any sprite that uses those colours.

I think pal2act is on randomselect. It uses the command line and it takes an existing pallete and turns it into an act file.

[Blade Galewind]

I think I learned a thing or two about palettes that may be useful to others.  It turns out that when Photoshop generates palettes and applies them, whenever Fighter Factory "reads" them, the color index Flips upside-down.  But that only happens when it reads the .act files.  When it reads the bmp/pcx files in the palette editor, they read properly.

I decided to create "two" different kinds of palettes, one that's associated with the images themselves (created and applied in Photoshop), and one that's to help Fighter Factory/Mugen itself read it (a Mugen Palette).  It's essentially the same palette, just rearranged differently to accomodate FF.

YAY!  I FIGURED OUT MY PROBLEMS!!  And this may help anyone else who is struggling making palettes for the first time too.

Aside from Fighter Factory "flipping" the Palette, Photoshop has the unique ability of switching display modes and "reassociating" Palette color Indexes!

Basically, let's say Your character's sprite color for their hair is shown as "in the middle" of the index, and you want to "move" the color to the top of the index.

Here's how you "fix" palette scrambles in Photoshop:

Let's say the sprites you opened have palettes already associated with them in "Index" Mode.  What you want to do is switch to RGB Mode.

Then, switch Back to Index Mode and Pick "Custom" Palette and rebuild your palette starting with Background Color 0, and how you want the colors to be organized.  Save the Palette as .act.

By switching away from "Index" to RGB Mode and back to Index "Custom" and loading a palette, Photoshop "reassociates" the colors from the palette you loaded down to the nearest number/color range.  While in some cases this can force some colors to fade or get removed in other pictures, it "fixes" scrambled palettes and reassociates the Palette index with it's corresponding color on the bitmap.  That means that the color's location doesn't matter so much as the association of the color (as long as it's not the same color in a palette) in relationship to being on the bitmap.  In some cases it may seem like colors "disappear" or "merge together" if you're not careful with how closely related colors are...but this fixed my problem, and can probably fix a ton of other people's problems too!

[Bastard Mami]

See, learning to use a real program instead of FF was better  .

[Blade Galewind]

I changed this topic's title to better suit my needs on this forum. 

Well, I thank you guys for helping me with my Palette, here's part of the results:




About the stance:  I hope to make it so that the "Greed Sever Glow" trails on the sword along with a few electric effects similar to the stance I have him in (like with A.B.A.'s eye for Paracelsus, or Custom Combo/Super Jump Trails), does this mean I need to add these sprites for each frame or do I just need a good sequence and can change sprite effect angles?

Right now I'm still trying to find Sprites for Slashback, the Forcebreak and Overdrive Atomic Flashrings from Accent Core, and also Ky's Forcebreak Sprites for Lightning Sphere and the Charge Drive finisher.  (I've also borrowed a few sprites from A.B.A., Setsuna, and Date Masamune, but I'm still missing stuff).

I have a few more questions relating to this process...

--What you do next after adding sprites to an .sff file?  What's the next phase?
--Why do I get the Error "Can't Locate this Sprite" whenever I add a sprite to Fighter Factory (.bmp format)...
--Do I need a separate palette for Lightning Sprites or Hit Sparks for that matter?

If there's anything else I'm missing please help! 

[Cyanide]

--Why do I get the Error "Can't Locate this Sprite" whenever I add a sprite to Fighter Factory (.bmp format)..

Should be PCX. Fucking bitmaps being allowed. Damn them.

Most likely, you have a blank frame at the start of your .sff file. Get rid of it.

If you're using the elecbyte template hurl it into the recycle bin so you never use it again and rename KFM next time. Back up your sff file if you like, you've done work on that and it's probably ok.

[Blade Galewind]

Okay so now I got a new Error...

"Stream Read Error"

It's for three sprites of mine that are essentially the same but only have slight differences in them (moving mouth for talking).

[Blade Galewind]

Thanks for your help Cyanide about the error! 

Well, I finally Chiseled out MOST of Darkside-Ky's movelist, so here's what you can expect:

DARKSIDE-KY MOVELIST

Specials

Ein Voltage
Throw Input (6 + H) Mash H for up to 14 Hits....Also Aerial

Ray Divider I (Ground Only, Hits 3 Times, close to character) Clean Hit Properties...High Uppercut if Clean Hit
236 + (Hold S to delay up to 5 seconds/102 frames, releases in the place launched, launches opponent on contact)
Move Notes:
Does Stun Edge Animation which does nothing at first...does Ray Divider Tap to release if on ground/Air Javelin if released in air.

Ray Divider II (Ground Only, Hits 3 Times, far away from character) Clean Hit Properties...High Uppercut if Clean Hit
236 + (Hold H to delay up to 5 seconds/102 frames, releases in the place launched, launches opponent on contact)
Move Notes:
Does Stun Edge Animation which does nothing at first (slightly faster than RDI)... does Ray Divider Tap to release if on ground/Air Javelin if released in air.

Stun Nebula I (Hits 3 times in place, placement just below in front of character in air) Clean Hit Properties...Knockback to Wall Bounce if Clean Hit
Air 236 + (Hold S to delay up to 5 seconds/102 frames, releases in the place launched)
Move Notes:
Does Cross Animation which does nothing at first... does Ray Divider Tap to release if on ground/Air Javelin if released in air.

Stun Nebula II (Hits 3 times in place, placement a ways in front/below of character in air) Knock-back to Wall Bounce if Clean Hit
Air 236 + (Hold S to delay up to 5 seconds/102 frames, releases in the place launched)
Move Notes:
Does Cross Animation which does nothing at first... does Ray Divider Tap to release if on ground/Air Javelin if released in air.

Impala Feint (Also Aerial/Feint/Warp)
623 + (Hold D)

Impala Hunt II (Also Aerial) *Hits Twice Knocks Up-Back Slightly/Wall Stick*
623 + D

Inverse Crescent (Ground Only, Flips over as a jump on top of opponent for Pop-up)
214 + K

Inverse Crescent II (Air Only, Knocks the opponent up, resets Air Options, cancels into itself)
Air 214 + K

--Inverse Javelin (Knocks opponent to ground for massive ground bounce...Floor Slide if there is a Clean Hit)
[During Inverse Crescent/Inverse Crescent II] H

Inverse Vapor (Air and Ground/Arcs overhead and strikes downward causing Floor Slide in the opposite direction/towards corner)
623 + S

Inverse Greed (Causes huge popup on hit, untechable for 60 frames)
214 + S

Forcebreaks (Costs 25% Tension per Use)

-Sacred Divider (Appears where the Ray Divider would have appeared, Hits 1 time for moderate Damage, untechable on hit, stays out for an extended amount of time...can reflect projectiles, used as an alternative to Ray Divider)
[During Ray Divider I/Ray Divider II] 214 + D (Holding D delays the attack)

Nebula Rays (Air only, cross hits 2-3 times on contact and fires a Stun Edge of varying angle)
Air 214 + D, (S or H)
Move Notes:
Hits 3 Times if no S/H was input and lasts longer; Hits 2 times and fires a slow Stun Edge if S or H is pressed afterwards.

Inverse Sphere (Can be done in the Air or Ground, 5 Hits on full contact, stays in place, creates vacuum)
41236 + D

-Peak Driver Can be done on Air or ground based on the previous move's origin.  Creates Wall Stick.
[During Inverted Sphere] 46 + D

Grand Vapor (Slides under projectiles for multiple Hits, Rises up as an Uppercut)
214 + D...464646 + S/H for extra hits

Overdrives (Costs 50% Tension per Use)

FINAL Ride the Lightning (Creates Vacuum effect on Startup, 1 hit untechable startup spark, then launches forward at high ramming speed, knocks opponent up on hit for massive damage)
632146 + H

Aces High II (Rising Attack, 5 Main hits, 3 Cross hits, Greed Sever Cross for knockdown, 9 hits total)
623 + H [Can be used optionally as a follow up to FINAL Ride the Lightning]

Excalibur (Arcing Wave that causes instant knockdown on hit...Auto-guard-break)
632146 + S

Destroy Attack (Enters Instant Kill Mode which gradually ebbs away at Health, performing the attack Eliminates Tension Guage)

Zwei Voltage
P + K + S + H ....236236 + H (Forward Kick to Initiate)

EX Movelist
Coming Soon...

Lightning Movement

Elegant Stun

Needle Cross

Crescent Spike

Charge

Charge Burst

Action Charge

Breaker Dash

Aerial Rush

Titanic Vapor

Holy Brand

Emerald Sword

Lord of the Thunder

Lightning Rhapsody

Drei Voltage

Ein-Zwei-Drei Voltage

If anyone has any doubts about this movelist, I made several sprites to accomodate, though I have yet to do any CLSNs/Animations for them, the frames are there, and I plan to add particle sprites soon.

[Blade Galewind]

Hey guys, I'm working on Slashback for my Character!

Authentic AC Screenshot of a Slashback, input is 4+S+H or 1+S+H, timing is the same as Perfect Guard, it's like a Parry only costs 5% Tension and you can't block if you miss the timing, it builds Tension pulse if it lands though and has pushback like normal guard.


Here's my Slashback Ring in Photoshop:



Now...how do I make this effect look 3D?  ???

[Blade Galewind]

Learned a thing or two about "Distort" and Polar coordinates in Photoshop, so I made this:



And this:



Can someone explain to me what all options you have to tweak your hitsparks/spritesparks (like flipping/scaling/z-rotation/etc) in FF/mugen?

[Cyanide]

Facing = 1/-1
vflip = 1/-1
scale = #,#

Explanations of these can be found in the dos in sctrls.html. Alternatively click this
explod

Cannot make an explod rotate, you either have to animate the rotation, or use a helper instead.

Nor can you have a single explod be half in front, half behind the player. You will need 2 explods for that purpose.

[Blade Galewind]

Hmm, see, I saw something like that in the Mugen version of Date-Masamune's FX during one of his big specials the central Lightning would basically rotate inward (i.e. get thinner) as it faded.

He must've used a Helper because it wasn't in any of the animations.

About scaling, what's the ideal size for a sprite effect when it gets bigger and fades offscreen?  I don't want the Slashback disc to get too pixelly when it gets big is basically what I'm asking.

Basically if you can picture a Slashback disc being small at first then growing bigger than the screen and disappearing (it basically flies towards the screen as the effect itself).