Renshu

[Agent Z]

Yo,

Some of you might've heard of Custom Tetsu, the edited version of XCB's Yatogi Tetsu that I'd been working on. I started the project just for the fun of it, wanting to make Tetsu competitive enough to take on Reu's Evil Ken (which I succeeded ), but along the way I've learned a lot about Mugen coding and making characters. Now I want to reinvent Tetsu in my own way, still using the original as a base. Custom Tetsu might be interesting, but he's more or less the same character (albeit more "broken", as many of you would call it). Aside from getting to code a character from scratch, I want to do this because I really enjoyed playing with the original, and I want to reinvent him in a new way.

So here's the idea: I plan to dampen Tetsu's overall hit count (he averages a hella number of hits, which is quite simply unheard of for a "normal" character) while still keeping his damage rate, invent a new way of chaining combos, improve his movement and useability, and reinvent his specials and hypers. I'd also like to improve his graphics and sound effects, but that will come a bit later.

Since the first issue of dampening his hit count is a cakewalk, we'll skip to the second issue: inventing a new way of chaining combos. Yesterday I was thinking about a little game called Shin Budokai, and I came up with this combo system that would allow players to treat Tetsu in a more RPG-like fashion: Instead of using command input to directly change to a state, there would be variables (and float variables) that determined what state Tetsu was in instead, and the commands and his current state would determine what values they changed into. This would make for much more robust possibilities in terms of comboing, since once the right variable is set, Tetsu would go into the state automatically. This is what the same concept from Shin Budokai: when you press a series of buttons, the character will automatically register all of them, and they would change into the following states automatically. Of course there would have to be a sort of timer to determine when to allow the varset and when to disallow/clear it, but we'll save the technical talk for later.

On the topic of usability, I want to reduce Tetsu's main attack buttons from six to four, but allow forward/backward combinations for each of them, thus giving him a total of twelve attacks! (Previously eight.) This is mainly to better categorize his attacks. The other two buttons are as of now open for change, though I figure if I am going to mimick Shin Budokai, I might as well make one of them an "energy" button. But for now that is up in the air.

For his movement, I would like to implement a mix of CvS and Shin Budokai, allowing Tetsu to move resourcefully and home in on/evade his opponent without any complications. With Custom Tetsu, I already had such a system in place, using FF and BB to perform CvS movements, and BF to do a "float" movement, which works very similar to the Shin Budokai system of flying, only he is on the ground. I don't want to do anything above and beyond; just a unique, versatile system of movement is all I am looking for. Anything extra should have repercussions.

Animation and audiovisual-wise, it would be pure lazy of me not to include some sort of graphical update along with everything else. After all, I'm already leeching off of XCB's sprite work; I feel the need to put a spin on things as a way of thanks. I've also lost my fondness for Tetsu's original animations; now they just look slow and impractical, no matter how much I speed them up. I don't plan on doing anything drastic, at least not with his regular specials, but his EX and hyper animations have got to change. Which in effect means the moves themselves will need to be modified. I personally am excited at the prospect, but I've been around the community long enough to know that most of you would hate it, and that one or two "broken" moves would pretty much land the character in hell.

So first I want to hear what you all think: Would you like to see a Tetsu made using the implementations listed above? Or would you rather he be done in a different way? I will be moving ahead with the project regardless, but I am curious as to what impressions you all have so far.

[Dr. Mask The 3rd]

You do know Testu was taking from a game called Kakuge Yaro. The game is a fighting Engine, where you create your own characters. XCB took the sprites, from the game, and used them in Mugen. Basically, he had more freedom with the sprites.

[Agent Z]

You do know Testu was taking from a game called Kakuge Yaro. The game is a fighting Engine, where you create your own characters. XCB took the sprites, from the game, and used them in Mugen. Basically, he had more freedom with the sprites.

Yes, I know. What I meant was that he did all the ripping, while I did none.

[Dr. Mask The 3rd]

You don't have to make it like XCB's character, you can do your own style, your own moves, you can make it a completely different character.

[Agent Z]

That's the plan, even though I'd much rather play it safe and follow the XCB's blueprint.

[Agent Z]

Okay, so I started programming the variable-type combo system, and I've come across my first issue. I knew I'd be playing with fire.

So far, I am only testing to see if the variables work to begin with. I set six variables (one for each attack) to 0, as a sort of "re-initialize" phase whenever Tetsu's finished attacking. Then I tested changing states via those variables. fvar(0), the light punch, worked, but fvar(1), light kick, encountered a glitch.

Edit:


Problem solved.

I need to eat, today is a little too rainy.

[Jango]

To be honest, I would have little incentive to play a Tetsu that follows the "blueprint" XCB's Tetsu has done. Granted, there's always room for improvement, and I'll be the first to tell you what needs to be fixed in Tetsu. But the end result would, at best, feel like a tuned up Tetsu, not an original character. As someone who has Kakuge Yaro, the character that Tetsu is based on has a few other interesting moves that would be interesting to play around with, so it might be interesting to try for those.

[Agent Z]

To be honest, I would have little incentive to play a Tetsu that follows the "blueprint" XCB's Tetsu has done. Granted, there's always room for improvement, and I'll be the first to tell you what needs to be fixed in Tetsu. But the end result would, at best, feel like a tuned up Tetsu, not an original character. As someone who has Kakuge Yaro, the character that Tetsu is based on has a few other interesting moves that would be interesting to play around with, so it might be interesting to try for those.

I've never played Kakuge Yaro, so would you mind listing some of those moves for me?

[Jango]

Off the top of my head, he has some interesting takes on fireballs, punch combos, and grapples. I have to turn on KY again and see what he has, it's been a while since I browsed his movelist (my most recent browse was with Ai Shigi, aka the base character for Reiko Hikari).

Also if you want to wing it, Kong ripped all of his sprites from the game if you want to take a look at it.

[Agent Z]

Will do.

Edit: Looks like I got a little ahead of myself. Where can I find this "Kong"?

[Jango]

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6137c08f94a0a3d30d428c4a089f9196d55e197f959290bd

IIRC, Kong labeled the Tetsu archive as "blue." And yes, you'll have to do some editing for the palettes to conform I suppose.

[Agent Z]

Thank you, this could come in very handy. I'll look through them tonight.

[Agent Z]

Hey all, good news!

Thanks to Doujin Ryuk, I've hit the jackpot in Tetsu sprites! I've already sifted through them and selected the new ones, and worked out all the palette and .sff issues. Needless to say, everything's looking good. Thanks Ryuk.

Now let's talk coding. After working on that variable combo system to many headaches and Red Bulls, I've finally implemented something highly practical. Since the main intention is to make combos operate like Shin Budokai, I am using a variable that counts all the previous states that Tetsu was in, and when a certain button is pressed in sequence, the variable is used to trigger the next attack. You might ask, why not make combos on-demand, like the way the original Tetsu and Custom Tetsu used to operate? The main reason is because I want to include secret attacks. There's always the "fwd+x" combinations and so on, but I want to be a bit more creative than that. Plus, all commands are currently booked. Another reason is that I want to give this new Tetsu loads of offensive possibilities.

I've done some other things too, such as new palettes, but mainly I've been focusing on the coding. Now that the system works, I plan to take a break and plan out his move list and overall playing style. I promise you it will be very different from the original.

So since I am chilling out for the next few, I wanted to hear everyone's opinions again. You can download the test subject here:
MediaFire: http://www.mediafire.com/file/m3u1dejm2bj/Tetsu110(Feb19-08).rar
Sendspace: http://www.sendspace.com/file/i8rjiu

Remember to send your thoughts.

And for the leechers:

[Milo]

time to make more palettes

[Agent Z]

time to make more palettes

Keep em coming!

[Agent Z]

 Updates:
Feb18/08
- Varset combo system was put into effect.
- Varset combo system worked for basic attacks, but not for actual combos.

Feb19/08
- Varset combo system was removed. The initialization process was painstaking.
- Command combo system was put into effect.
- Command combo system was successful; integrated some aspects of varset combo
  system.

Today I'll continue thinking up new moves, which I'm in a bit of a stump right now. Any ideas? Here are some of the current normal combos (performable via single-button input):

Double jab => Lp, Lp
Double light kick => Lk, Lk
Swap kicks => Lk, Mk, Lk, Mk
One-two punch => Lp, Mp
Power left => Lp/Lk/Mp/Mk, Back+Hp
Power right => Lp/Lk/Mp/Mk, Hp

Downloads:
Sendspace: http://www.sendspace.com/file/hxxxpu

[Jango]

I'll try it out in a bit. BTW I usually go by the nicks "Jango" or (in very rare cases) "WaruiGouki"

[vortex35]

awesome I'm really looking to see how this system would work I've never played Shin budokai before so it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. and do you plan to keep a lot of the same type of attack on tetsu or give him some new ones

[Agent Z]

awesome I'm really looking to see how this system would work I've never played Shin budokai before so it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. and do you plan to keep a lot of the same type of attack on tetsu or give him some new ones

Ah, sorry bout that! I assumed everyone here knew of that game (it's a fighting game, after all).

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4632622134585966876&ei=n1GfSa3KNpPiqQLy2dnXDw&q=shin+budokai
There's a great vid showing off Shin Budokai's combo system. I'm trying for something close to that, but using CvS style as a template. I'll explain in more detail later on.

[Agent Z]

Ah, need help! XD

What kind of trigger exists that detects when the state has just started? I want to make a variable increase the very moment Tetsu enters a state, so that he doesn't change states DURING the state. I already used MoveContact, HitdefAttr, time, ctrl, a combination of these, and a couple more. Here is the current code:


[State -1, Reset controller]
type = VarSet
trigger1 = StateNo = 0
trigger2 = ctrl || (StateNo = [5000,5120])
var(11) = 0

[State -1, Count controller]
type = VarAdd
trigger1 = MoveContact; HitDefAttr = SCA, NA, SA
v = 11
value = StateNo


[State -1, Lk]
type = ChangeState
triggerall = StateType = S
triggerall = command = "a"
trigger1 = ctrl
trigger2 = MoveContact && var(11) = 210; Double light kick
trigger3 = MoveContact && var(11) = 440; => Swap kicks =>
value = 210

[State -1, Mk]
type = ChangeState
triggerall = StateType = S
triggerall = command = "b"
trigger1 = ctrl
trigger2 = MoveContact && var(11) = 210
trigger3 = MoveContact && var(11) = 650; => Swap kicks =>
value = 230

What happens is, if I press a button repeatedly, then Tetsu will pause in the middle of the state and re-enter it no matter what. I just need a trigger that says "Player has switched states." That's all. If I just plug a trigger like that into the VarAdd, everything will be fine.



EDIT: Check out the cure (and perhaps set off some fireworks in celebration).
[State -1, Count controller]
type = VarAdd
trigger1 = HitCount
v = 11
value = StateNo

He no longer re-enters the same state repeatedly. I don't even need to include "MoveContact" as a trigger anymore. Mugen is just full of surprises.

EDIT: This is all in Beta, by the way; the problem could pop up again at any moment. If any of you happen to know a better trigger, PLEASE supply me with it! Thanks.