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MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess (updated 11/20/2018) (Read 14296 times)

Started by Baby Bonnie Hood, November 15, 2018, 03:01:20 pm
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Baby Bonnie Hood

MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess (updated 11/20/2018)
#1  November 15, 2018, 03:01:20 pm
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Spoiler: Additional screenshots (click to see content)

There are many conversions of that one succubus from that one Capcom fighting game; heck, even I made one a long time ago.  So rather than throw yet another one onto the pile (besides, there's already a versus-style Lilith anyway), I decided to try my hand at a different Lilith instead.  Namely the one from Vanguard Princess, whose claims to be the daughter of Satan may be disputable but her rasslin' skills are definitely undeniable.  You know what to expect by now: non-MvC character with UMvC3 gameplay, X-factor, and marvelous combos that with her you can even start from throws if you're skilled enough.

Mediafire:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/uv8g4ez2wuuzlj0/mvc3_lilith_vp.zip
Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mzwiqh101surob8/mvc3_lilith_vp.zip

Enjoy.
Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 09:30:33 am by Baby Bonnie Hood

Ex☆Cham

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess
#2  November 16, 2018, 03:46:57 am
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Ok, a cute looking character with a fun good gameplay, sir this lures me just too much.

EVERRRRRRYTHING MUST BE MVCOTIZED!!

Azul Crescent

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess
#3  November 16, 2018, 08:19:39 am
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Vanguard Princess need more love. Absolutely fantastic job on her, she's really fun to use <3
Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 08:30:00 am by Elea

Nep Heart

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess
#4  November 17, 2018, 01:54:19 am
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 She actually has the potentially to be really fun to play, likely could be the funnest character I had from you yet, although there are some fundamental issues that holds her back a lot.

 I've noticed that some of her supers have no invulnerability frames on start-up, rendering completely useless if I want to use them as a reversal.

 Another issue is that I personally think the hitstun on her normals are somewhat too low, which forces me to be absolutely frame perfect to pull off any of her combos, so, I think they could use a few extra frames to make hit confirms more reliable.

 Additionally, but a little more minor, Lilith could probably stand to use a bit more health for quality of life purposes (I'm thinking around 1100, maybe 1150) since conventional grapplers are usually at a distinct disadvantage of needing to risk commitment closing in the distance to get in their grapples. Most grapplers in FGs are made sturdy for a reason.

 Also, would be nice if an OTG Purgatory Flame was non-recoverable at least just once a combo so I can get reliable OTG combo finishers.

Baby Bonnie Hood

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess
#5  November 17, 2018, 04:39:32 am
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A majority of supers in Marvel games don't have invincibility due to their large coverage and/or comboability.  That said, Lilith does have two supers with start-up invincibility since they work perfectly as reversals: Lilith Stunner and Final Meteor Buster.  I'm fine with the remaining supers having no invincibility... except maybe LKO.  That might need invincibility, but I'll need to look up first whether other similar air throw supers like the ones She-Hulk and Frank West have are invincible.

I agree on the normals, I think they do need a little more hitstun across the board.

Y'know, I forgot that Vanguard Princess has a guts system.  So Lilith's effective total life is actually around 1100 despite 1000 being the actual amount.  But that might be too much considering this Lilith is more mobile than the original (and also, that headbutt kara cancel...).  How about 1050?

Purgatory Flame already has a custom fall.recovertime of 30.  Are opponents still recovering out of it too early?  I could increase the time, or just make it unrecoverable altogether.  But it's also possible that the opponent has a custom recover state that's blatantly missing CanRecover and thus ignores the whole fall.recovertime thing.

Alrighty then.  If I'm gonna do an update, I'll need help with something.  I suppose I could've asked for this while I was working on her, but I wanted to showcase the completed product first.  Anyway, does anyone know where I can find the full image of her current portrait?  I know it exists out there, one was used for that Kurumi with Big Bang Beat gameplay.  But my attempts to find them myself didn't yield anything, so I'm hoping someone else knows something I don't and can point me in the right direction.

Nep Heart

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess
#6  November 17, 2018, 05:48:07 am
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Baby Bonnie Hood said, November 17, 2018, 04:39:32 am
A majority of supers in Marvel games don't have invincibility due to their large coverage and/or comboability.  That said, Lilith does have two supers with start-up invincibility since they work perfectly as reversals: Lilith Stunner and Final Meteor Buster.  I'm fine with the remaining supers having no invincibility... except maybe LKO.  That might need invincibility, but I'll need to look up first whether other similar air throw supers like the ones She-Hulk and Frank West have are invincible.

 I suppose fair enough, but if we're taking elements from MvC3/UMvC3, I am also sure push blocking drastically reduced guard damage from multi-hits iirc playing the game from back in the day.

Baby Bonnie Hood said, November 17, 2018, 04:39:32 am
Y'know, I forgot that Vanguard Princess has a guts system.  So Lilith's effective total life is actually around 1100 despite 1000 being the actual amount.  But that might be too much considering this Lilith is more mobile than the original (and also, that headbutt kara cancel...).  How about 1050?

 I think 1100 seems reasonable to me honestly given grapplers are traditionally not very strong in many fighting games without something absurd anyway. I mean, in comparison to Alice and Reika, it seems a pretty fair boon for someone who needs to block a lot of approach.

Baby Bonnie Hood said, November 17, 2018, 04:39:32 am
Purgatory Flame already has a custom fall.recovertime of 30.  Are opponents still recovering out of it too early?  I could increase the time, or just make it unrecoverable altogether.  But it's also possible that the opponent has a custom recover state that's blatantly missing CanRecover and thus ignores the whole fall.recovertime thing.

 Personally, I would make it unrecoverable on the first use in a combo and make it recoverable if used a second time or more in a combo. That way, the first one sets up a guaranteed OTG extended combo with anything after that can be used to bait a recovery with a 50-50 LKO.

Baby Bonnie Hood said, November 17, 2018, 04:39:32 am
Alrighty then.  If I'm gonna do an update, I'll need help with something.  I suppose I could've asked for this while I was working on her, but I wanted to showcase the completed product first.  Anyway, does anyone know where I can find the full image of her current portrait?  I know it exists out there, one was used for that Kurumi with Big Bang Beat gameplay.  But my attempts to find them myself didn't yield anything, so I'm hoping someone else knows something I don't and can point me in the right direction.

 Not that I am entirely sure of, although I normally render images I find on Google if I like it enough and use that like I've been doing for my own stuff.

 Edit: Also, I don't think Lilith's headbutt set-up and follow-up combos should allow recovery at all, it's an already unsafe move as it is and it already has a bounce limiter anyway. Her other aerial moves should have more recovery time window, too, since I have a lot of characters in my roster with 7 frame recover time (including my own creations).
Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 08:42:10 am by Nep Heart

Baby Bonnie Hood

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess
#7  November 17, 2018, 09:55:48 am
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Nep Heart said, November 17, 2018, 05:48:07 am
if we're taking elements from MvC3/UMvC3, I am also sure push blocking drastically reduced guard damage from multi-hits iirc playing the game from back in the day.

From my experience, it's not drastic; in fact, I barely notice any damage reduction when push blocking a multi-hit attack.  So I just simply decided not to implement it and leave all the healing to X-factor.  And regarding that, I know X-factor nullifies chip damage while it's active but I decided not to implement that either and just let the healing make up for it.

Nep Heart said, November 17, 2018, 05:48:07 am
I don't think Lilith's headbutt set-up and follow-up combos should allow recovery at all, it's an already unsafe move as it is and it already has a bounce limiter anyway. Her other aerial moves should have more recovery time window, too, since I have a lot of characters in my roster with 7 frame recover time (including my own creations).

Maybe the default fall.recovertime of 4 isn't cutting it anymore, especially since some characters leave out the "vel > -1" part of the default recovery state and are able to recover while they're still flying upwards.  What would you suggest I use for fall.recovertime for all attacks?

Nep Heart

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess
#8  November 17, 2018, 10:03:33 pm
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Baby Bonnie Hood said, November 17, 2018, 09:55:48 am
Maybe the default fall.recovertime of 4 isn't cutting it anymore, especially since some characters leave out the "vel > -1" part of the default recovery state and are able to recover while they're still flying upwards.  What would you suggest I use for fall.recovertime for all attacks?

 It likely hasn't been for a while since Muteki's characters date back from roughly a decade ago or so, who are some of the "7 frame recovery" examples. Kinda hard to say since it feels pretty case by case, but I'll have to say maybe at least 15 to 20 extra ticks depending on move perhaps. I usually do my testing on Stupa's Training to be extra sure.

Baby Bonnie Hood

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess
#9  November 17, 2018, 11:29:05 pm
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I just cannot find a more complete version of this image anywhere, but I know it exists somewhere.  Can anyone please help me with this?

Mr. Fael

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess
#10  November 18, 2018, 12:59:58 am
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Baby Bonnie Hood

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess
#11  November 19, 2018, 11:03:07 pm
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That's exactly what I'm looking for, minus all the text and stuff.  There must be a clean version of that somewhere.

Edit: Never mind, I can't wait any longer.  I could try cleaning it up myself, but I'm not confident I can make it look good.  I'm just gonna forget about it for now and finally get started on that update.

Baby Bonnie Hood

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess (updated 11/20/2018)
#12  November 20, 2018, 09:34:52 am
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Update's done.

Changelog:
- Increased hit stun and air recoverable times on most attacks.
- Increased life to 1100.
- Purgatory Flame now cannot be recovered from, but only once in a combo; subsequent times in the same combo are recoverable.
- Sky Elbow now causes longer bounces, though only the heavy version can still cause a true floor bounce.
- LKO is now invincible on the way up.
- Disabled shadows and stage reflections on victim during Final Meteor Buster.
- AI!  Once again, it's nothing too challenging and only serves to have her just not stand still and do mostly nothing.

Lemme know how she is now, and also if the new download links in the first post are actually working and not give you a corrupted file or something.  I'm asking about the latter because technical issues made the upload process annoyingly longer than expected.

Nep Heart

Re: MvC3 Lilith from Vanguard Princess (updated 11/20/2018)
#13  November 20, 2018, 10:34:57 pm
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 Not perfect, but definitely a lot better. I feel like my combos are more consistent and I can tank chip damage better now, I just need to take alternative combo routes whenever facing anyone with ridiculous recovery speed such as Muteki and Infinite's stuff, but those work as intended otherwise. Might consider doing a video featuring Lilith later this week.
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