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4 buttons vs 6 buttons in fighting games. (Read 11126 times)

Started by Bastard Mami, April 17, 2013, 12:38:28 am
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Bastard Mami

4 buttons vs 6 buttons in fighting games.
#1  April 17, 2013, 12:38:28 am
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This is not a topic about which method is better or which method do you prefer, but rather, to discuss about the advantages and disadvantages of each method. I want to be as unbiased as possible and that's one of the reasons I made this topic so as to listen to opinions different to mine. One can say that the goal of this topic is to find a hybrid of a 4-6 buttons fighting game and make it feel natural.

Six buttons refers to the style mostly found in capcom games, where we have weak,mid and strong attacks (3 levels of strength) as well as punches and kicks (high and low), 4 buttons refer to the style mostly used by kof with weak and strong attacks (2 levels of strength), punches and kicks (high and low).
It might be worth adding to the discussion the fighting games that use 3 buttons in the following manner: weak, medium and strong, no difference between high/low or punch and kicks, I think those work better for fighting games where the characters are not martial artists.

for the scope of this discussion we will assume that the weak and strong attacks are equivalent in both 4 and 6 button games.

talking about special moves having 6 buttons means having more posible variations for them, there is no loss in them , thoug most games can handle well with having only two levels of strength for special attacks.

as far as aerial attacks go, 6 buttons and 4 buttons are not very different, as aerial attacks properties tend to be more similar, as it 's hitboxes which do not really depend on strength, staying time which can be easily played with and animation speed which also can be easily played with.

six buttons alllow for more attacks particularly the medium strenght ones, games with 4 buttons add more attacks by adding dir +button command attacks; unlike in aerial attacks, medium attacks do not only have a difference because of timing and hitboxes, but they also have very different properties compared to weak and strong attacks, weak attacks generally can be comboed after with the same stuff as strong attacks, medium attacks on the other hand allow for more stuff to be comboed after them, and unlike strong attacks, especially in the case of kicks, they don't knock down the oponent.

emulating that with 4 buttons means adding dir+button attacks that don't knock down and have hittimes that allow for comboing after them ( like it's done in svc ryu/chunli).

Generally speaking dir + button tend to follow a cancel hierarchy of basic attack -> dir+ button -> special attack. while in six button games you don't really do that, it's mostly basic attack -> special (though some links are possible to expand it), so emulating medium attacks with dir + button does not give the same feeling as someone used to 4 buttons might have a hard time differentianing between dir+button that works as extentions and dir + button that work like medium attacks.

now, seeing the other side of the coin, a 4 button character suddenly gaining medium attacks, then gaining the ability to cancel the medium attacks to specials might gain too much of an advantage (like,imagine a grappler like clark being able to do a mid crouching kick then cancel it to a special grab), I don't know how unnatural woudl it feel to have medium attacks that are not cancellable.
the problem of having a wider variety of attacks that might unbalance a character can be easily solved by making the medium attack a simple variant of the weak or strong attack with less speed/damage, thus not affecting the character balance that much, while still keeping a complete feeling for the character movelist.

now, dir + button attacks have no real reason to be dropped or have their mechanics dropped when moving from 4 to 6 buttons, a lot of 6 button fighting games still keep the dir +button attacks, and even then those attacks could still follow the cancel hierarchy stablished in 4 button fighting games.

6 buttons also allow better chain /target combos ; target combos are still possible in 4 buttons but they might be overly simplistic, though that does not seem to be a big problem (see rotd).
Talking about chain combos there is the problem of being limited to having only weak to strong chains(two steps) which makes cahin combos almost irrelevant(though a case could be made that by being able to start combos by poking they are still very relevant), games like trf have solved that by allowing you to chain attacks fo the same strength whicih in practice means being abel to chain strong punch to strong kick or standing strong attack to crouching strong attack.

Cazaki

Re: 4 buttons vs 6 buttons in fighting games.
#2  April 17, 2013, 12:52:07 am
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With six buttons you can get a bit more depth out of the combat I would agree but IMO it makes each button less meaningful. I wouldn't say there's any true advantages to 4 buttons other than creating more simple and defined gameplay. That said I still find 4 buttons ideal.

"Bad News" Hoffmann

Re: 4 buttons vs 6 buttons in fighting games.
#3  April 17, 2013, 12:58:48 am
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The 4 button layout in the Tekken games is super directly and makes players react sometimes automatically to counter a slow attack with a fast left right punch combo almost all characters have now (i think) in general. It feels so natural that you have to press square and triangle for moves involving both fists/arms or a triangle (right arm) and X combo for a right arm punch followed with a left leg kick.

i prefer 6 buttons in 2d fighting games though and like the darkstalkers like chain combos from weak to hard punch etc.

Both layouts have their advantages ..depending on the games of course.

What i really don't like is the 4 button layout in the SoulCalibur games ..its just unusual for me to press a button for a block if its not mortal kombat.

I dislike the button system in doa and vf games even more...
Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 01:01:52 am by GBK667

Duos.act

Re: 4 buttons vs 6 buttons in fighting games.
#4  April 17, 2013, 01:00:05 am
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I find that a lot of my favorite fighting games are four buttons, but that's because a lot of them are Neo Geo titles.  On the other hand I absolutely cannot stand Capcom characters with four buttons, I don't care if it's CVS1 or SVC Chaos or anything. 

Aldo

Re: 4 buttons vs 6 buttons in fighting games.
#5  April 17, 2013, 01:06:32 am
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I sincerely like both systems. In most games I play (Capcom, SNK titles plus Tekken) the button layout is really good and pretty comfortable no matter if 4 or 6 buttons.
Chilling

walt

Re: 4 buttons vs 6 buttons in fighting games.
#6  April 17, 2013, 03:44:47 pm
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Real Boxing only has Quick Jabs and Power Punches. I like the 4 button style better because of this, it keeps it simple.

Yet, for Capcom's 6 button layout you can give different properties to certain attacks, like directions (C.Viper's power knuckle, Cody's slide kick) and it works wonders. When SNK needed to do something similar, like different directions or distances, they used all 4 buttons and it was a clusterfuck IMO. Also, medium buttons have been known to be used for irregular attacks (like Rose's crouching slide kick, Ryu's air crossups, Ryu's sliding punch).

So, in reality, people playing the game simplistically will typically only use Weak and Strong punches, but if you want to add variety to your game, you use mediums intuitively. For this reason, 6 button layout is superior.

Bastard Mami

Re: 4 buttons vs 6 buttons in fighting games.
#7  April 17, 2013, 05:42:49 pm
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Señor Walt said, April 17, 2013, 03:44:47 pm
Real Boxing only has Quick Jabs and Power Punches. I like the 4 button style better because of this, it keeps it simple.

Yet, for Capcom's 6 button layout you can give different properties to certain attacks, like directions (C.Viper's power knuckle, Cody's slide kick) and it works wonders. When SNK needed to do something similar, like different directions or distances, they used all 4 buttons and it was a clusterfuck IMO. Also, medium buttons have been known to be used for irregular attacks (like Rose's crouching slide kick, Ryu's air crossups, Ryu's sliding punch).

So, in reality, people playing the game simplistically will typically only use Weak and Strong punches, but if you want to add variety to your game, you use mediums intuitively. For this reason, 6 button layout is superior.

yeah, I stoped playing kof for like 2 years while playing other fighting games, having mediums can give you a more ranged attack taht can be used for comboing, as not having them means that you eithtr have to sacrifice a poke, an uppercut a trip or a zoning attack. It seems like it's easier to just have redundant attacks. the dir +button attack can be easily adapted to mediums and that makes the character more accesible as it simplifies the command input:

As an example we have mai's df+LK slidea attack, it can be adapted as her crouching mid kick, that makes it easier to use it as the command is simpler and there is less command overlap; for characters that have a lot of directions already filled it can be pretty nice to streamline them; the problem comes because they were supossed to be used after/comboed from other attacks, but having target combos can take care of that; again in mai's case, enabling a close/crouching strong punch to crouching mid kick target combo keep the gameplay intact.

still, I wodner if I am still missing something in the comparison of 6 button vs 4 button fighting games.

C.v.s The Abstract

Re: 4 buttons vs 6 buttons in fighting games.
#8  April 17, 2013, 05:44:43 pm
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6 button's are more fun when u wanna pull off good combos
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