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[R@CE AKIR@]

yes yes we understand your intention. what you did was FINE. if this had just been a simple edit/release you did for free people would probably just ahve left the feedback at what they disliked about your character. however what you did was not neccessarily RIGHT. people disliked that this was sold. even if you moved stuff around, which is okay. youre allowed to do that. youre allowed to not move things around. people just dont want others profiting off peoples work.

I understand that now. But it wasnt like that I coded alot of stuff myself on my own too. So I'm not saying that it doesn't knock the other thing out of the way but I really did coded alot of the stuff myself too.

But i guess using any is not good  to people. So for that I'm sorry. It was not my intention to try to do that to someone else. I put alot of stuff in to the character as well so I thought nothing was wrong with it

[rednavi -RETIRED]

I put my question again: What to do if one part of code used is made by an author who is inactive.

Yes, Vans. This is the same. We all know it.
So now, Crosscat is still active? There is any way to cantact him?

The ideal thing would be to not to use GM's assets at all and instead contact somebody else who made another Tizoc and who's still available and offer him part of the money. That or create your own Tizoc, which is the best path if you want to learn how the character properly works and not end with mister-infinite-pressure instead.

Replace the "whole character" concept with "part of code" and you'll get your answer.

[Hephaistos31]

Read my posts, Alex.

So if I understand well, Red, we can't use part of a character by an inactive author. Same if we want this move in particular.

[R@CE AKIR@]

This really shouldn't be a huge issue man frfr. He made a commissioned character using 1 damn move from a character and states from another? It's still his style of coding and movements and all. It's still a r@ce style character. Now the fact he got paid for it to is it a problem? Hell I'm paying him 50 to edit a character that I love and I have no problem with it. It's not like U paid for the character.. jealousy? Iont know man but to bash someone for hard work is crazy. And that rabite guy needs to leap frog off a cliff into a ocean of sharks u r just being a donkey dude

I'm just trying to resolve this the best way I can. They acutally have a point to what their saying. It wouldnt be right to not have an open mind and not try to understand where they are coming from if I too want them to understand where I too am coming from

[Umezono]

now the fact he got paid for it to is it a problem? Hell I'm paying him 50 to edit a character that I love and I have no problem with it.

ive got a couple direct questions for you since i am interested:

do you think the creator of said character you are editing would like that said character is being used for profit. do you think he would want proper credit? do you think he would want a share maybe? do you even care at all?
is an edit worth the 50 dollars? do you think it should cost less vs. a coded from scratch original?

[rednavi -RETIRED]

Read my posts, Alex.

So if I understand well, Red, we can't use part of a character by an inactive author. Same if we want this move in particular.

I can't tell you what you can't use. Ideally you're free to do whatever you want as all coding and assets are considered opensource here. But you can see right here what happens when you charge for something that's 75% made of coding assets from 2 other authors.

Imagine if I decide to grab Balthazar's Goku and tweak him to my "style" while grabbing effects from several P.o.t.S. characters and coding from Neocide's Goku for a move or two for a $50 commission and gave them nothing whatsoever for their efforts?

[R@CE AKIR@]

Well all I can do is take this as a lesson learned I wish things could have been handled a little different but for the most part atleast now I know where I things stand on this.

Sorry for all the commotion and stuff. To everybody else, my apologies as I didn't feel like it was wrong to use some of another person's coding no matter how little or much it is when it is a commission.

Umezumo, thanks for atleast trying to see where I was coming from with things

[Umezono]

No problem man, it's kind of my job here lol

[R@CE AKIR@]

No problem man, it's kind of my job here lol

I know man, And about the stuff in my thread. I'm sorry about that too as I just felt like you were like constantly on my back about the character and I was trying my best to fix what was said prior to what Vans had already posted

But i see that you werent trying to come off like that now

I like the feedback you give it helps, but it was just so much with every body at the same time it because kinda overwhelming

[Umezono]

Its okay, Saikoro told me about that so I understand where you are coming from. As I will say for the umpteenth time it was never my intention to be malicious. I stand by everything I said about your character, but it was only meant as information and constructive criticism.

What Ive learned t Guild is the attitude towards creation is largely one of "do-it-yourself," as someone with no creating skill I cannot relate but I do know that the general idea of feedback here is to point out flaws so that the creator can learn from them and improve themselves. as a result the feedback here is also way more strict and critical than youll find at pretty much any other english speaking forum. many people here are "do it yourself"ers who honed their skills to a tee and look for that same drive and effort in other characters, and will bestow their knowledge via feedback to either help inform or to indicate it is not to their taste.

I can understand the rigors and stress it can put on someone producing work as a hobby but thats just how it is. And the fact you did charge for it makes the situation worse.

[Hephaistos31]

Red. Of course what you tell me is right!!!! What I'm pointing is that when you are using the move of an inactive creator, it's a pain to get a solution!
For active members, of course a discussion should happen because when you work on something, you have to be rewarded. I repeat it, this is normal.

Well, I'll stop here. I hope everything will be fine, now, for everyone!

[R@CE AKIR@]

Its okay, Saikoro told me about that so I understand where you are coming from. As I will say for the umpteenth time it was never my intention to be malicious. I stand by everything I said about your character, but it was only meant as information and constructive criticism.

What Ive learned t Guild is the attitude towards creation is largely one of "do-it-yourself," as someone with no creating skill I cannot relate but I do know that the general idea of feedback here is to point out flaws so that the creator can learn from them and improve themselves. as a result the feedback here is also way more strict and critical than youll find at pretty much any other english speaking forum. many people here at "do it yourself"ers who honed their skills to a tee and look for that same drive and effort in other characters.

I can understand the rigors and stress it can put on someone producing work as a hobby but thats just how it is. And the fact you did charge for it makes the situation worse.

Yeah but like I said, I didnt feel like it was wrong if I had to fix something in the coding because it had some flaws and then change things around that it would be wrong with those certain moves.

And with me doing my own stuff in it too, like I said i didnt feel like anything was wrong. But I see what you all are saying. And I get it,

And like I said I meant no disrespect towards any of the 2 creators at all. I really appreciate you talking this out with me because I know you didnt have to if you didnt want to. It really shows alot on your character

[Umezono]

now the fact he got paid for it to is it a problem? Hell I'm paying him 50 to edit a character that I love and I have no problem with it.

ive got a couple direct questions for you since i am interested:

do you think the creator of said character you are editing would like that said character is being used for profit. do you think he would want proper credit? do you think he would want a share maybe? do you even care at all?
is an edit worth the 50 dollars? do you think it should cost less vs. a coded from scratch original?

1. Maybe maybe not that's not my problem and never will be.
2.they might .
3.ill worry bout that.
4.doesnt really bother me truly. Iont know anyone here personally so naw not really
Y.
5.its reasonable asking price especially if it's gonna be private and he has to spend his time working on the character . But u do have a point. I would rather have a character coded from scratch butttt..

well okay, i can see why this doesnt bother you then. you should probably it is truly insensitive to assume people wouldnt like proper credit for their work being used in anothers commission

on the pricing, as a rule of thumb if you want something more you should pay more for it- if you are getting an inferior work to what you would want for the same price its smarter to ask for less.

[Prime SC]

I'm out like gout

[Rabite]

YOU really need to stop. Jango, Rednavi, Cybaster, Ume, and Vans have all stated their issues in an effective and adult-like manner. I'm surprised nobody checked you already.

You are bandwagoning and name calling. If you have nothing productive to add, stay out of it. You've been doing nothing but being disruptive and childish this entire time. Quit it.

Nope, not gonna do it. It's your kind of BS attitude that screwed the MUGEN scene back in the day. Any time a prima donna refused to accept that there is something wrong with their character a bunch of people would come to their rescue so they never had to fix the actual problem. Some people NEED to be belittled before it gets through their head that their character is broken. If the character hadn't been paid for I wouldn't have bothered. But as has been said by myself and others, taking someone else's work and using it without permission for something you're selling is wrong. And needs to be beaten into the person's head that it's wrong. With a hammer if need be.

Also what the hell does "checked you" mean? If anybody is "bandwagoning" it would be you. The continual perpetuation of glorifying people whether or not they've done anything to deserve it is sickening and you should be ashamed of it. If a character doesn't work the way it should, it needs to be fixed. If someone steals someone else's work and profits from it they need to be belittled until the situation is resolved.

Things here seem to have ended how they needed to. Whether or not my actions had any impact I really don't care.

[R@CE AKIR@]

Well I'm glad this all got talked out. Because the tension was definitely there, I have learned a few things from all of this.

Sometimes talking to people, and trying to understand them, what their doing and what they stand for can really help break the walls down and help people see things in a newer light

I will do my best to remember what was said here and know better next time.

If I have let any of you down. I apologize as I had no intentions to do that at all, because I didn't think it was wrong if I used some coding on particular things and tweaked/fixed it that it would be a problem. But i see that it was now and for that im sorry.

Thanks to the ones who took the time to hear me out and tried to understand where I was coming from with somethings. Thank you

Sorry for my words that I said to Jango, as I was upset about the video. I should have still kept my composure and not said anything like that in the thread

[Rabite]

Well I'm glad this all got talked out. Because the tension was definitely there, I have learned a few things from all of this.

Sometimes talking to people, and trying to understand them, what their doing and what they stand for can really help break the walls down and help people see things in a newer light

I will do my best to remember what was said here and know better next time.

If I have let any of you down. I apologize as I had no intentions to do that at all, because I didn't think it was wrong if I used some coding on particular things and tweaked/fixed it that it would be a problem. But i see that it was now and for that im sorry.

Thanks to the ones who took the time to hear me out and tried to understand where I was coming from with somethings. Thank you

Sorry for my words that I said to Jango, as I was upset about the video. I should have still kept my composure and not said anything like that in the thread

[AlexSin]

Read my posts, Alex.

Spoiler (click to show)

Ok, you're saying:
- "Stop bashing him" "There's no sense in doing it now"
- "What about people ready to pay for something like this?"
- "Are [coder] and [coder] active?" "If not, what do you do?"
- "This is what happens when money is involved"
- "What if you contact the authors of the code?" "He should contact the authors from whom he took codes"

Is it right?

Then let me answer you:
"What about people ready to pay for something like this?"
if they want to spend their money on stuff, they're free; they can even pay for a mugen compilation. That doesn't mean it is right. I know we are on two different subjects (one being a commission and the other being selling mugen thus going against laws).
The fact is that the codes (I don't want to exaggerate, so I specify they were some moves, not all the character's moves) were taken from other characters (like copy-pasted) and albeit they were credited (or not in the case of CrossCat) you would not expect that, when you pay for something to be coded from someone. You would want the coder to code the moves him/herself.

"Stop bashing him"  "There's no sense in doing it now"
Rednavi said what had to be said. I'm not going to repeat it.

"Are [coder] and [coder] active?" "If not, what do you do?"
Well, I have some ways to resolve that:
you could code the move from scratch; or take inspiration from some codes and code it yourself; again, if you're getting money out of a commission you wouldn't take others work and say it's your own (like in CrossCat case) or forget about crediting the coder who came up with the code (when it should be the first thing to do; that's common sense).

Think about an artist that takes commissions: you commission him and tell him your character/background; he takes the money and you realize he took pieces of artwork from someone else (not for all the drawing); how would you feel about it? Regardless if the sources are credited or not (and said sources are open source), I would not be okay with it.

"This is what happens when money is involved"
yes, exactly. If it was free none of this would have happened.
The guys who gave feedback would just say: "Credit CrossCat too!" R@ce would have said "Yes, I forgot" (which I find very difficult to believe since you should credit the sources first; but I don't want to drag this on and on) and done.

"What if you contact the authors of the code?" "He should contact the authors from whom he took codes"
Good thing to do, but then there's the thing; you're getting money for that.

Just had to answer someone. Don't mind me.

[bubilovescars]

So does that means you're going to work on a char again, R@ce?

[Hephaistos31]

I agree with you, Alex, in most of those points.
Let's move on!