The Mugen Fighters Guild - King of Fighters E blog

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#81 February 09, 2008, 11:41:24 am

The world is what you make of it

Edit: Here's the K' Vid: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhzIWFVjTWc More updates coming soon.

Happy days are here. K' is finished. I'll post a vid soon. With the prelims done, I can get to tinkering with the priorities, invinicibilities and the dreaded two in ones. Barring that I'll also need to double check all credit and missfairy's gonna try to put some AI into these things. Sorry the delays are stacking up, but we all want a good release and honestly, I underestimated the time it'd take me to do all this. One thing I can assure you is that they will be release no later than the end of Feb. Guaranteed. I'm shooting for 2 weeks though.

Once finished the next batch of 10 will broken up into two releases
The first will include: Iori, Kasumi, Orochi, Ryo, Angel, Benimaru
The second will be MOTW release and will include: Jenet, Hotaru, Gato, Rock

As I will be taking a big breather and letting people throw me some feedback on the first 10, the next release probably won't be until sometime in late April/May. The list is subject to change, especially if I can find the Shermie voices I'm missing or figure out how to rip them (I'm dying to make her).

New KOFE website is up. Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 05:30:39 pm by swipergod

Dark Symphony

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#82 February 19, 2008, 08:43:03 pm

I'm a llama!

swipergod said, February 02, 2008, 01:48:50 am

Hi Dark Symphony. I like talking about fighting games too. I'd like to take a wait and see approach to the opening window for Geese's counters. The moves are pretty good damage and have the ability of countering hypers (thus even countering moves with invincibility windows like Terry's buster wolf for example for the price of nadda unlike the guard counters, which would still go through the move's invincibility). Timing should play a key in countering I think (but not something ridiculous like Heidern's counter). 4 frames is 1/4 of a second I think, so it's not so bad and it forces you to vary your offense slightly, so you're not a turtling Geese. We'll see if that works in practice though.

Trust me. In fighting games, it's bad to have conflicting elements because you either get overpowered things or useless things. For the latter, think of Elizabeth's counter in XI.

You do not want to tweak a defensive ability (counters) to promote an offensive type of play. If you want to discourage people from turtling with counters, take the counters out. If you want counters to not be overpowered, lower their damage. Don't make their applications too hard otherwise you'll just end up with a bunch of moves that will go unused, which, to me, is like my worst nightmare. It's what I try to avoid the most when making a character.

In CVS2, Geese could counter nigh instantly and he could counter almost anything that wasn't a projectile, even Shin Akuma's MAX super. Yet he wasn't even close to being the best in the game nor were his counters abuseable. The dangers that counter characters present is that you can't be predictable against them and you can't rely on repetitions of moderately safe strings. It's a good danger to present but it's offset, usually, by the fact that you not only have to guess the move, but the height it's hitting at (high, mid, low) AND when it's coming.

WIth a window before the counter, you not only have to know when it's coming, but you have to know it before, so you can't even time it iwth an attack. Any move 3 frames or under can't be countered unless the counter comes out before hand and any move blocked will create uncounterable situations if it leave enough frame advantage to allow for quick follow ups.

Counters should be the bane to predictable moves and strings. If you want to discourage players from sitting back and countering, simply remove the counters. Don't limit them to where they become a novelty rather than a practicality.

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#83 February 19, 2008, 09:33:49 pm

Candy Princess

swipergod said, February 09, 2008, 11:41:24 am

Edit: Here's the K' Vid: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhzIWFVjTWc More updates coming soon.

Happy days are here. K' is finished. I'll post a vid soon. With the prelims done, I can get to tinkering with the priorities, invinicibilities and the dreaded two in ones. Barring that I'll also need to double check all credit and missfairy's gonna try to put some AI into these things. Sorry the delays are stacking up, but we all want a good release and honestly, I underestimated the time it'd take me to do all this. One thing I can assure you is that they will be release no later than the end of Feb. Guaranteed. I'm shooting for 2 weeks though.

Once finished the next batch of 10 will broken up into two releases
The first will include: Iori, Kasumi, Orochi, Ryo, Angel, Benimaru
The second will be MOTW release and will include: Jenet, Hotaru, Gato, Rock

As I will be taking a big breather and letting people throw me some feedback on the first 10, the next release probably won't be until sometime in late April/May. The list is subject to change, especially if I can find the Shermie voices I'm missing or figure out how to rip them (I'm dying to make her).

Yay, nice to see k'.

And of course I'm still willing

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#84 February 22, 2008, 12:09:49 am

The world is what you make of it

My apologies for such a lack of updates. I have to be honest, I've been wrapped up in another project of mine (a writing thing), and haven't had the chance yet to get to work on those tweeks. I'm still shooting for the end of Feb though. Missfairy you'll be the first to know when the completions start racking up.

Dark Symphony, I will sincerely take your words under advisement. While I have enjoyed Geese as is right now and don't find his counters useless, I could be one among many here. But he'll have to be tested first. I know what you're saying with Elizabeth, but I've made Geese's counter more like Blue Mary's/Billy Kane's/Rock's and I doubt you could say those counters are completely useless. 2 things to understand: 1) Mugen's reversal def doesn't work like CVS2 counter system from what I understand. It groups all Standing normal moves into one category for example and doesn't allow for exceptions unless I make counters character specific and that would take forever to code. 2) Geese only has 2 counters now, not 3, so the amount of guessing the player has to do in anticipating an attack goes down. These factors are part of what I considered when I decided to add the 4 opening frames. For now, only DM Counters will have immediate counter properties.

New KOFE website is up. Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Dark Symphony

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#85 February 24, 2008, 12:13:48 pm

I'm a llama!

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I'm just not sure what you're trying to accomplish. I see many other feasible avenues to take as far as balancing counters.

CVS2's counter system WORKS the same although it might be programmed different. I'm not speaking about the coding so much as the in-game application. Is it your goal to have situations where a move cannot be countered even though you had time to input a counter command in and have the counter execute before you were attacked? And what will a player think when they see the move come out and hear the sound, if any, and still get hit?

Just some things to think about. Counters are weird. People are so used to them working a certain way, you know?

I'm actually just waiting for you to release ther character batches. I'm excited for that.

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#86 February 24, 2008, 10:43:23 pm

The world is what you make of it

I hope they won't disappoint most (can't please everyone

). I'm also excited about the release because then I can get some in depth feedback and with a little luck, some more people might take an interest in helping me out (the more help I get the faster I can release new characters).

Okay, so I've completed King's tweaking and 2 in 1s. I now have a blueprint for the others. Now I will place her in the hands of missfairy for a little AI magic. I expect to finish the remaining tweaking in the next week or so. I will keep you all updated.

Edit: Kim is now finished as well.

As for future releases, I think I'll divide the 2 I've mentioned into 3. Less pressure for me and less wait time for all of you. Cheers!

New KOFE website is up. Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 03:31:11 am by swipergod

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#87 February 28, 2008, 01:40:31 am

The world is what you make of it

Terry, Karate, Geese and Mai are on the verge of completion. missfairy has also started on the AI for Kim and King. On a personal victory note, I've managed to solve the sexy ko problems I had with projectiles (formerly a projectile hit wouldn't cause a sexy ko) by changing the line:
enemy, hitdefattr = SCA,SA,HA,SP,HP
to
enemy, stateno >= 3000
There are still problems with bind attacks and targetstate attacks though. I'll have to change all HT to some value that can be omitted by (enemy, stateno <= ), but I have to figure how to do that without screwing up what little organization I have with the characters.

Other bells and whistles I've added are H's flashing red screen KO + sound effect when someone is killed with a DM and the counter spark for counter attacks.

I also wanted to let you know that I'll be adding a little fan fiction in the pdf file. Think of it as an alternate version of the KOF mythos (like marvel's ultimate universe). I love to write and it won't take me long, so hopefully some of you will enjoy the alternate take. For those who don't want to be bothered, the fan fiction will be included at the bottom of the PDF, so that you don't have to read it if you're just looking for moves. The character specific blurbs will be in the profile section though. Sorry. If I can manage to complete the 4 above tomorrow, I should be on good pace to complete them all this weekend. Then it'll be some quick credit roundup, missfairy's AI upgrades and we'll be ready to roll, 1 week late, but at least it's not 2.

New KOFE website is up. Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#88 March 01, 2008, 07:08:29 am

The world is what you make of it

Well Terry, Geese and Mai are complete. Finishing up Karate. Also, after some head scratching and minor bugs, missfairy and I finally got King's AI up and running. Missfairy's got some really good code. It managed to give Sander's Benimaru a run for his money. While some might not be impressed that fact alone, I'd just like to point out that this is a huge improvement over the pathetically sad default AI that King used to have. Once missfairy's finished up the final touches on King and another fighter, I'll post a video of an AI battle. Thank you very much missfairy and R[E]ika for your willful and wonderful contributions to this project. It's really a lot more than it was when I started. Cheers!

New KOFE website is up. Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#89 March 02, 2008, 06:42:01 am

The world is what you make of it

Sorry for the sling of updates, but as we come to the end of prep and towards the beta releases, things are starting to pick up quickly. I've pretty much done Rugal, which leaves only K' and Whip left to tweak. After playing against the final product of missfairy's AI for King though, I've decided to postpone the release until missfairy can give AI to all of them. The code is really good and challenging and really adds to each character. Missfairy's tackling Mai, Terry and Kim right now, so we'll keep you updated as more AI come to completion.

I'll also be posting a video with myself fighting against King. Hopefully I don't embarrass myself.

Edit: Me fighting as Terry vs King with missfairy's AI: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZqjrGsOr17g

New KOFE website is up. Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 08:28:17 am by swipergod

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#90 March 05, 2008, 12:26:51 am

The world is what you make of it

Okay everybody. All characters are completed tweaks and await further testing. Mai and King's AI are finished, so we're just waiting for the final 8. While you wait, I'll be uploading a relatively simple intro for any screenpack. It's a 5 second flash of the SNK logo I made. It's not much, but it's simple for those of you who, like me, currently have no intro (or one that satisfies). It'll be posted on megaupload (I'll post the link once it's up and post it in the releases), so grab it if you want.

Edit: Link here: http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=76515.new#new

New KOFE website is up. Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 01:45:07 am by swipergod

Dark Symphony

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#91 March 10, 2008, 07:47:39 pm

I'm a llama!

While I applaud your efforts, perhaps you would want to have the characters tested for bugs before implementing AI that could have elements based around flawed iterations?

That's the way i've always seen it done...

Bastard Mami

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#92 March 10, 2008, 07:59:19 pm

should not be too big of a problem, you can see it the other way, teh ai code cna help to stop bugs.

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#93 March 11, 2008, 05:19:24 am

The world is what you make of it

The reason the wait has been a little long than expected is because Missfairy and I have been tirelessly checking AI for bugs and odd instances. Like R[E]ika mentioned, fighting the AI has allowed me the chance to uncover quite a few things that we missed, and Missfairy will tell you that I can be a little anal when it comes to details like AI producing unnatural moves and combos... Aside for some 2 in 1s that human players won't be able to do, I have let nothing slide, as far I have been able to catch. There will be more, no doubt, but at least there will be less.

An update. 4 AIs are now complete. Difficulty per character varies. I am also slowly making my way through Iori. I do not want to release him without Kasumi, so we'll see if Missfairy or myself finishes first. It might end up missing the initial beta release though. I've put it off for far too long already, so I won't hold back for 2 extra characters that can be released later. Everything else is set. Another week and a bit hopefully. Also, sadly, my fanfic will not be a part of the release. After completing over 20 pages and still not finishing, I feel it's too long for such a small release. Maybe in the future.

New KOFE website is up. Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

-SyLar-

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#94 March 11, 2008, 08:43:18 am

yeah miss fairy posted a few AI related problems on MI she seems to be coming across some strange problems with her AI coding.

offtopic question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM wat kof moveset is that hyper from where mai does the spinning fan attack in the air?

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#95 March 11, 2008, 11:45:01 am

The world is what you make of it

While the code seemed clear before the AI, Missfairy and I found some things wouldn't trigger, others would get the characters stuck in a loop etc whe the AI used the characters. I've been able to fix behavioral problems caused either by Missfairy trying out experimental coding and forgetting to remove their triggers afterward, my wrong labeling of statenos for AI triggers and the fact that some moves need a special AI variable (9) changestate code to trigger their 2nd or 3rd states.

M:ken, the spinning fan move was originally from RB2 as her P. Power Super. They brought it in for KOF '98 as RB Mai's DM and SDM (the version of Mai where you have to hold start to select her). They also used it in KOF '99 as a main DM. I picked up the code from Jin's Mai (modifying it slightly). The flaming version is my creation and was never in a KOF or FF game. Since the move reminds me of Ken's Shinryuken, I thought the SDM should resemble the strongest version of that move (Capcom vs series).

New KOFE website is up. Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Bastard Mami

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#96 March 11, 2008, 04:32:58 pm

M:ken said, March 11, 2008, 08:43:18 am

yeah miss fairy posted a few AI related problems on MI she seems to be coming across some strange problems with her AI coding.

offtopic question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM wat kof moveset is that hyper from where mai does the spinning fan attack in the air?

link, kthnxplz

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#97 March 11, 2008, 06:26:12 pm

Candy Princess

M:ken said, March 11, 2008, 08:43:18 am

yeah miss fairy posted a few AI related problems on MI she seems to be coming across some strange problems with her AI coding.

offtopic question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM wat kof moveset is that hyper from where mai does the spinning fan attack in the air?

Nah it wasn't with my coding.

It was just I didn't know how to get a few things to work.

-SyLar-

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#98 March 11, 2008, 06:51:06 pm

R[E]ika said, March 11, 2008, 04:32:58 pm

M:ken said, March 11, 2008, 08:43:18 am
yeah miss fairy posted a few AI related problems on MI she seems to be coming across some strange problems with her AI coding.

offtopic question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM wat kof moveset is that hyper from where mai does the spinning fan attack in the air?

link, kthnxplz

http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=98445.0
http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=98400.0

^^ those problems are most probably sorted by now but this one was the strangest everyone that tried to help cudnt figure it out lol

http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=97228.0

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#99 March 11, 2008, 07:24:27 pm

Candy Princess

M:ken said, March 11, 2008, 06:51:06 pm

R[E]ika said, March 11, 2008, 04:32:58 pm
M:ken said, March 11, 2008, 08:43:18 am
yeah miss fairy posted a few AI related problems on MI she seems to be coming across some strange problems with her AI coding.

offtopic question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM wat kof moveset is that hyper from where mai does the spinning fan attack in the air?

link, kthnxplz

http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=98445.0
http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=98400.0

^^ those problems are most probably sorted by now but this one was the strangest everyone that tried to help cudnt figure it out lol

http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=97228.0

Those have all since been resolved. (I need to upload those titles)

I wanted to let those interested know, too. That these AIs are supposed to replicate KOF games with improvements. (Lots of evasion, special use, ect) - They're not supposed to play like people. So hopefully nobody takes issue.

Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 07:30:46 pm by missfairy

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)

#100 March 11, 2008, 11:49:23 pm

The world is what you make of it

The powerdrain issue was actually a coding issue that allowed King to skip the state with the Superpause and negative poweradd and go straight into the move itself. It was discovered that the second state was sharing the same stateno as a random integer for the AI, so I switched the AI numbers. We'll post here and on the help boards here if we run into problems that leaves us stumped. So far the only problem worth mentioning is that we couldn't figure out how to get Rugal to counter fireballs with his barrier, without severely crippling his AI. It's not a big deal though as he's still pretty though as is.

New KOFE website is up. Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

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