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Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2 (Read 4404 times)

Started by Fausto Mugen, July 20, 2020, 07:24:49 PM
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Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#1  July 20, 2020, 07:24:49 PM
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[Google Translate]

"Handsome fighters never lose battles."

My first char released  :)

I hope this Vega serves as a base for more experienced creators than me. Enjoy!

Demo video (outdated velocities)



Update 2020/07/31



Disclaimers:
- Due to MUGEN limitations, Vega's claw and mask may disappear during custom states. There is a tutorial for this in the char folder.
- Due to the way it's programmed, Vega may not look good during custom states that use rotations or resizing in conjunction with standard animations.
- To detect "beautiful" or "ugly" chars, Vega uses the optional Messatsu animations. Depending on the author of the char, this can lead to curious cases.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vhom9nmtjrxpsxy/Vega%20POTS.rar?dl=0
Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 02:08:51 PM by Fausto Mugen
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#2  July 20, 2020, 07:51:26 PM
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This is POTS style not CvS2.... but thanks anyway
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#3  July 20, 2020, 08:16:59 PM
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This character looks good. I am going to check it out~
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#4  July 20, 2020, 09:21:21 PM
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A few minutes of testing and he plays extremely well. There is just one thing I found. When you try to use Splendid Claw using LP+LK, he does the roll instead (this is because the dodge and roll are above Splendid Claw in the CMD), in this case I'd put Splendid Claw above them.
Also, this is just a nitpick but I felt like some of his supers are not dealing enough damage, I can't remember if in the source it's like that though.
One more thing and this is just a suggestion that you can ignore if you don't like the idea. Adding some blood on his claw attacks would be really cool, it's one of the things I like the most when playing as Vega. You can borrow the code and sprites for blood from Froz's Wolverine.

Other than that, very good character until now. I'll test him more and if I find something I'll tell you. Thank you for the release!
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#5  July 20, 2020, 11:51:14 PM
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Do your best to become stronger. Become stronger, so you can do your best.

Mugen is a way for me to remain nostalgic with all of the dream matches I cooked up as a kid. It's also what I call a "Digital Action Figure Collection."
MaxBeta link=topic=155656.msg1876950#msg1876950 date=13867
Vegaz_Parrelli...also known as The Lord of the Rings.
[/quote said:
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#6  July 21, 2020, 12:00:26 AM
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Amzing work! I can see you had a Lot of work coding and CSing this char!

Well done! Thank you!
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#7  July 21, 2020, 12:08:05 AM
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Congratulations on this release! Excited to try him out!
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#8  July 21, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
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Thank you very much for finally giving this man a full release. Who provided the finished AI? I know you asked if someone could do it.

Here's what I'll point out for now:
1. His throws could do with Swing sounds during the Success states at the appropriate times.
2. The EX Scarlet Terror doesn't feel much different from the normal version, an easy suggestion would be making it do a 3 hits as opposed to 2.
3. Splendid Claw feels kinda cheap when you have to block low. Unless that was a source thing (Don't feel like checking SF4 at the moment).
4. May I suggest adding the ~DB, $D, F, UF shortcut for his ~DB, DF, DB, UF Supers? Jmorphman's Guile does that and his Chun-Li used to before he added the Explodsive Buffering.
5. There was one point when I Air Parried when I was testing that AI and his Claw and Mask (The latter I'm not sure about because it was brief) were very misaligned, couldn't replicate it though.
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#9  July 21, 2020, 12:35:44 AM
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I noticed you are using CvS2 hitboxes, I give you much props for that, good job.

However his jump velocities are incorrect. He's supposed to be able to jump high very quickly, and LAND very quickly. He's able to jump over almost everything in CvS2, He's really sneaky. However your Vega seems like it's impossible to do a high jump and punish a hadouken. This is not normal. In CvS2 he's supposed to be somewhat "godlike" with aerial attacks. Claw is easily one of the best top tier characters, and destroys most of the character roster in CvS2. So he needs his velocities to get some of that power back.
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#10  July 21, 2020, 02:41:04 AM
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Such amazing debut Fausto, this Vega is even better than i thought. Congrats! :)
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#11  July 21, 2020, 02:53:01 AM
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Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#12  July 21, 2020, 03:22:42 AM
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OMG YES!!! A good Vega!!! Thank you. :)
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#13  July 21, 2020, 04:09:32 AM
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OMFG! Thank you so much, Fasusto. We deeply appreciate your hard work and dedication for Balrog / Vega.

Tbh, his SFA3 theme is the best! :mlol:
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Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#14  July 21, 2020, 04:17:39 AM
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I noticed you are using CvS2 hitboxes, I give you much props for that, good job.

However his jump velocities are incorrect. He's supposed to be able to jump high very quickly, and LAND very quickly. He's able to jump over almost everything in CvS2, He's really sneaky. However your Vega seems like it's impossible to do a high jump and punish a hadouken. This is not normal. In CvS2 he's supposed to be somewhat "godlike" with aerial attacks. Claw is easily one of the best top tier characters, and destroys most of the character roster in CvS2. So he needs his velocities to get some of that power back.

Yeah, after testing again I noticed he is more "floaty" than I remember. Not only him but the opponent too, when hit by Scarlet Terror (just an example, this happens with most of his moves that "launches" the opponent in the air) it takes a while for the enemy to hit the ground. You might want to tweak the velocities and gravity a little. :)
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#15  July 21, 2020, 04:55:59 AM
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Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#16  July 21, 2020, 05:05:11 AM
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Just passing by to say that this Vega mostly uses accurate velocities to CvS, however, these are actually normal velocities instead of turbo veloticies, which makes the character feel slow. Fausto, default CvS2 is played on 3 star turbo which means everything is speed up to *1.25. You need to manually speed up velocities in MUGEN. This means that frame data is divided by /1.25 and velocities are multiplied *1.25. Also, since frames are cut *1.25, acceleration is actually *1.25*1.25.

This means that something like the walk.fwd constant changes like this:

4.125 -> 4.125*1.25 = 5.15625

and jump.neu velocity changes like this:

-12.125 -> -12.125*1.25 = -15.15625

and ofc since we have to change yAccel

0.65625 -> 0.65625*1.25*1.25 = 1.025390625

Changing these two values make the WORLD of a difference as you can see here:

https://streamable.com/2hxy4p

This Vega is super solid and I congratulate you for that so if you find any of this confusing or you don't have the time to fix this I'm more than open to help you out going over the character and making the proper adjustments necessary to match CvS2 play. If you don't want anything to do with me and you want to do things by yourself, just remember: is not just multiplying everything up to *1.25, acceleration (repeated VelAdds essentially) goes *1.25*1.25 and the framecount NEEDS to be divided /1.25 on startup-active-recovery too.

Another thing this character could benefit a lot from is a buffering system. I've never implemented a buffering system but I would be willing to try :]

DW

Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#17  July 21, 2020, 06:12:53 AM
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- To detect "beautiful" or "ugly" chars, Vega uses the optional Messatsu animations. Depending on the author of the char, this can lead to curious cases.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Lol! Hold up... You're not trying to imply that Skullo isn't beautiful are you? Nah, just joking with you. I'm probably one of that last few guys who actually uses those anim traits. I guess it makes it that much more funny to see stuff like that. :P

I'm not the biggest Vega fan, but I'd like to commend you on a job well done. Reading your profile text, I very much respect that. Rolling up your sleeves and putting in work. Especially with a not beginner friendly char like Vega. Where you had to deal with all the no claw/no mask/mask/claw various variants. Not to mention adding in the gate climbing shenanigans.

I just want to note: When looking over your showcase vid, you seem to be using the old Max Mode depletion I used to use, where it drains half the bar/time per EX move. I've since raised the efficiency to 1/3 instead of 1/2. It's an easy enough tweak. Just go to all the Max Mode drain coding, and change the -500 value to -335.

Code:
[State ####, MAX Timer Drain]
type = VarAdd
trigger1 = !Time
trigger1 = var(20) > 0
var(20) = -335 ;<--- This value here
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#18  July 21, 2020, 07:57:34 AM
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This was much, much better than I expected. And this is your first character release? Woah, what can I say except congratulations!
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#19  July 21, 2020, 03:04:17 PM
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Thank you all very much for your words of support, I am very happy that you liked this Vega.

Regarding feedback, I don't want to be rude when saying this, I hope you'll excuse me:

I just wanted to have a Vega in my Street Fighter mugen compilation. I wasn't completely satisfied with the existing Vegas, so I thought "why not?"

I am satisfied with this char, so I would like to just fix the bugs and move on to other projects. I'm lazy and it's been a two years project xD.
If anyone wants to edit this char to improve it, I give my permission and my best wishes.

There is just one thing I found. When you try to use Splendid Claw using LP+LK, he does the roll instead (this is because the dodge and roll are above Splendid Claw in the CMD), in this case I'd put Splendid Claw above them.

I will check it.

Who provided the finished AI? I know you asked if someone could do it.

2. The EX Scarlet Terror doesn't feel much different from the normal version, an easy suggestion would be making it do a 3 hits as opposed to 2.
3. Splendid Claw feels kinda cheap when you have to block low. Unless that was a source thing (Don't feel like checking SF4 at the moment).
4. May I suggest adding the ~DB, $D, F, UF shortcut for his ~DB, DF, DB, UF Supers? Jmorphman's Guile does that and his Chun-Li used to before he added the Explodsive Buffering.
5. There was one point when I Air Parried when I was testing that AI and his Claw and Mask (The latter I'm not sure about because it was brief) were very misaligned, couldn't replicate it though.

I did the AI, adapting it from Jmorphman's chars and other authors. It is not perfect, but I think it is decent.

2. From what I've tested, that's the way it is in USFIV, it only does more damage than the strong version.

3. So it is in the original game. I don't think it's cheap, it gives time to be on guard or jump. It is difficult for me to hit the AI of some chars with that movement xD

4. I can add it, but I couldn't test it. I am very bad with charge moves, for that reason I use "CommandEasy.cmd".

5. Occasionally there may be "1 tick" bugs. Without more details it is difficult to replicate it.

Just passing by to say that this Vega mostly uses accurate velocities to CvS, however, these are actually normal velocities instead of turbo veloticies, which makes the character feel slow. Fausto, default CvS2 is played on 3 star turbo which means everything is speed up to *1.25. You need to manually speed up velocities in MUGEN. This means that frame data is divided by /1.25 and velocities are multiplied *1.25. Also, since frames are cut *1.25, acceleration is actually *1.25*1.25.

This means that something like the walk.fwd constant changes like this:

4.125 -> 4.125*1.25 = 5.15625

and jump.neu velocity changes like this:

-12.125 -> -12.125*1.25 = -15.15625

and ofc since we have to change yAccel

0.65625 -> 0.65625*1.25*1.25 = 1.025390625

Changing these two values make the WORLD of a difference as you can see here:

https://streamable.com/2hxy4p

This Vega is super solid and I congratulate you for that so if you find any of this confusing or you don't have the time to fix this I'm more than open to help you out going over the character and making the proper adjustments necessary to match CvS2 play. If you don't want anything to do with me and you want to do things by yourself, just remember: is not just multiplying everything up to *1.25, acceleration (repeated VelAdds essentially) goes *1.25*1.25 and the framecount NEEDS to be divided /1.25 on startup-active-recovery too.

Another thing this character could benefit a lot from is a buffering system. I've never implemented a buffering system but I would be willing to try :]

Thank you very much for that information! I wish I had known that before, that explains a lot of things. If it is not much work for you, I accept the offer of help. I am not comfortable touching the velocities, I would prefer someone more experienced than me to do it.

I'm not the biggest Vega fan, but I'd like to commend you on a job well done. Reading your profile text, I very much respect that. Rolling up your sleeves and putting in work. Especially with a not beginner friendly char like Vega. Where you had to deal with all the no claw/no mask/mask/claw various variants. Not to mention adding in the gate climbing shenanigans.

I just want to note: When looking over your showcase vid, you seem to be using the old Max Mode depletion I used to use, where it drains half the bar/time per EX move. I've since raised the efficiency to 1/3 instead of 1/2. It's an easy enough tweak. Just go to all the Max Mode drain coding, and change the -500 value to -335.

Code:
[State ####, MAX Timer Drain]
type = VarAdd
trigger1 = !Time
trigger1 = var(20) > 0
var(20) = -335 ;<--- This value here

The profile text is inspired by a phrase from the movie "Tomorrowland", but I like to take it as inspiration for the mugen and other things.

Thank you very much for your words DivineWolf. I used your Akuma, Poison and Kung Fu Man as some of the references in this char.

Regarding MAX Mode, I will review it.
Re: Vega (Claw/Balrog) from CvS2
#20  July 21, 2020, 07:45:46 PM
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https://www.mediafire.com/file/vytxfaycb6289df/Vega_POTS.rar/file

Hey here's a quick edit of you Vega applying the proper movement. I was surprised when I noticed that the animations were already speed up so it was only a matter of tweaking velsets and vel adds. In terms of jumping, walking, running, etc. he should be acting more accurate to CvS2. There were a couple of outdated stuff related to y jump velocities during diagonal jumps that I updated to current jmm standards.

Please don't take this as an actual update because it always needs testing and tweaking and fixing. I think the thing needs the most attetion rn is Flying Barcelona Special as the veloticies both in *1 and *1.25 are... Odd to calculate.

I tried studying CvS2 which makes it so the move has a different horizontal verlocity depending on Claw's distance to the wall. However, I can't quite understand how is calculated.

When at 178.082519531 distance it goes x = -7.9125366210938
When at 176.131958008 distance it goes x = -6.9666137695313

And this is both BEFORE applying turbo vels on *1.25

Your move uses
x = Cond((FrontEdgeBodyDist / 16) < 1.5, 1.5, (FrontEdgeBodyDist / 16))

I've never code a move that has a velocity dependant of the distance to the wall, but maybe changing the / 16 to a range between 28-30 could do the trick? I'm not entirely sure and I hope some of the more experiment senpais can help with this.

Regarding this move, and related to something that DeathScythe pointed out. While the damages are accurate to CvS2 (props <3) I think Flying Barcelona Special is not always dealing all the hits that it should be dealing. This is especially noticeable on MAX but no limited to, as sometimes I whiff the hit on regular super.

Fausto, you probably went thru hell making this character. I've never thought adding claw/mask was only a part of the actual complexity of this characters. Props for all your work, for real. I hope me and vets can help you out refining this character into the best version possible.