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SFA2 Dan Hibiki has been released!! (Read 15554 times)

Started by Basara Lapis, August 30, 2023, 04:28:45 am
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Basara Lapis

SFA2 Dan Hibiki has been released!!
#1  August 30, 2023, 04:28:45 am
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  • the fertilizer that feeds them.The choice is yours
    • Chile
    • network.mugenguild.com/basara/

Surprised? I don't think so...
Maybe most of you don't follow my WIPs, but this char was on works since 2022, obviously placed on hiatus thanks to my ClayFighter project back then (that converted into CF: Infinite Clayfare)... but in reality I never stopped to work on him, going slowly and silent working on him all this time. Now, I finally could finish him and MUGEN will have a real SFA2 experience (99% of SFA chars are made based on SFA3, Dan included). This is what you'll find on him:
  • Eagle Zero (co-made with Arma_X and using N-Mario's SFA Template) as base
  • Sprites, voices, FX and gameplay enterely based on SFA2
  • Damage values and moves frame-by-frame based on this guide
  • His 6 palettes from this game + 6 extra from other appearances
  • Alpha Counter and Custom Combo as in SFA2
Spoiler: Screenshots (click to see content)

As I said in my WIP thread since past year, I always wanted a real SFA2 experience and I never got it on MUGEN, so just as most of my creations, since no one did it, I've to make the work myself. I hope you like it, maybe I could convert more chars (not just from SFA2) in this style... and even remake my Eagle Zero in this style, won't be a bad idea ;)

My dad could beat you, and he's dead!
Chars -> Adaptations -> Capcom Series

Rest in peace, Toriyama-san...
Normal WIPS - ClayFighter - Ideas - Anti-Gouki Project - Lifebars - Facebook - X

Momotaro

Re: SFA2 Dan Hibiki has been released!!
#2  August 30, 2023, 09:09:10 am
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Thanks for the release! And congratulations.

I can't wait to give it a try!
It really reminds me the gold age of Mugen when many projects were either SFA/MVC based or KOF based.

Time to test!

EgyLynx

Re: SFA2 Dan Hibiki has been released!!
#3  August 30, 2023, 04:32:28 pm
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  • Why,
I have feeling at playing with him at "Nice and genetive" Or how it said?Anyway, I think Basara´s work at that at all.
Hey, can i help, or maybe i need help

AlexSin

Re: SFA2 Dan Hibiki has been released!!
#4  August 30, 2023, 07:53:26 pm
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Sorry, but this doesn't feel like SFA2 Dan.
From the custom combo, which should make Dan move forward during the entirety of the meter loss, to combo-ing crouching attacks and while still crouching he stands instead;
I mean, if I keep pressing down, any attack, the first attack will be a crouching attack but the next one will be a standing attack;
the comboability is light-medium-heavy, which was not a thing in SFA2;
you can't connect a single Gadouken from a crouching medium kick too (and I guess other attacks too);
any Gadouken, with proper timing, can be an infinite in the corner;
the timings on the animations feel very slow; (probably because they weren't checked with the Turbo setting in the game);
the supermoves are difficult to perform because you listed them in the wrong order in the .cmd file: difficult input should be placed higher than easier inputs;
so you can never actually input the lvl 2 or lvl 3 supers; come on, you should know that;

that doesn't just mean the [command], but also the [changestate]


[Command]
name = "koryu2"
command = ~D, DF, F, D, DF, F, b;b+c
time = 30

[...]

[Command]
name = "burai2"
command = ~D, DB, B, D, DB, B, b;b+c
time = 30

why are the wrong inputs used?
these would be impossible to do anyway, read the point above;
the last attack of the Hisshou Buraiken doesn't hit Dan;
the last attack of the Koryuurekka doesn't hit Dan;
s.MK doesn't hit twice;
Light Koryuken has a "Koryuken" guard sound :???:
if Dan gets hit while in Custom Combo the after image will remain there;

there's probably other stuff to check: this character should stay in the oven for a bit more.

I know you said "based on SFA2" but then you say it's a real SFA2 experience, it honestly doesn't feel like it.
You should check the timings of the original game more; there are also people very passionate about these games so I'm sure they will help you with artmoney/cheatengine stuff, values, alignments and whatnot.
Last Edit: August 30, 2023, 09:16:21 pm by AlexSin

jay_ts

Re: SFA2 Dan Hibiki has been released!!
#5  August 30, 2023, 11:49:59 pm
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After some testing, I've found... well, a lot about this Dan.

Though it's impossible to make something accurate to source game completely, there's a lot of things this Dan doesn't have.

Firstly, there is the hitboxes. You linked the Super Combo wiki, which has hitboxes, but when I checked in the AIR file, they are not only inaccurate, but they do that thing where the hitbox is completely enveloped by the hurtbox, which should not be the case. I know just having attack hitboxes aren't enough (the rest of the hurtboxes are done fairly well) but for the attacks themselves you should refer to the wiki and copy the hitboxes to the best of your ability.



Pushback is extremely low on Dan's moves, notably cr.MK and st.MP, they have a miniscule -1.5 pushback. You can link st.MP into itself up to 4 times, which shouldn't happen (and also results from st.MP being +5 when it should be +1). Pushback should be revised on almost all normals.

There's straight up ZERO special or super cancellable normals. The whole basis of street fighter combos involve cancelling normals into specials or supers so Dan should have them. The cancellability parameters are on the wiki.
Despite this, he has Alpha 1 chains? Alpha 2 never had these, they shouldn't be here.

A ton of sprites are misaligned, like his st.LP and his walking.

His stand and crouch jabs aren't mashable (can cancel into itself on whiff)

Gadouken is a massive +11 on hit, +10 on block. Because it has an 8-frame startup (should be 11 frame), he has a very easy corner infinite. It should be -13/-14/-15 on block for LP/MP/HP respectively, which is available on the wiki.

Koryuken hits on the wrong frame on the ground, it should be this frame. Also he doesn't have his random invincibility, instead having no invincibility at all.


Supers straight up blacken the background. It should just use the darken = 1 on the super pause sctrl.

Shinkuu Gadouken is also extremely plus when it should be minus.

When you hit a character with an alpha counter, the "spin" FX stays on them and never goes away.

He also lacks the recovery roll system that Alpha 2 has, refer to the wiki for how that works since I can't explain it succinctly here.

The biggest issue I have with this character is the custom combo. It is not accurate at all to alpha 2.
In alpha 2, when you do a custom combo, you walk forwards, while here you can move freely. You move forward when you do any normal which vaguely attempts to recreate what the custom is. The meter also drains incredibly slowly, when in alpha 2 it drains very quickly even at lvl3.
When combined with the lack of pushback, you can TOD by just mashing st.MP during custom combo.
There's also no i-frames and no blowback, so in reality this is less of an alpha 2 custom and more like a weird mix of cvs2 and alpha 3 custom combo.

Activating in the air causes all kinds of shit. He activates in the air three times regardless of level, and it will always drain his meter to zero. Also special moves can build meter during custom combo.

The damage values are in fact like 99% accurate to the alpha 2 totals, but why is that the case and then the frame data is sometimes completely inaccurate? converting A2 damage to MUGEN damage requires a little math while copying the frame data is merely just looking at the value and going from there.

Overall this Dan needs a ton of work before he can be a solid product, but I like the attempt at an Alpha 2 character which is quite uncommon in MUGEN, in fact I might do that myself in the future when I have the time, but as it stands I think you'll have to go back and do extensive testing in Alpha 2 itself with Dan to get a better feel.

Basara Lapis

Re: SFA2 Dan Hibiki has been released!!
#6  September 03, 2023, 06:27:20 pm
  • ******
  • Take better care of the plants around u or become
  • the fertilizer that feeds them.The choice is yours
    • Chile
    • network.mugenguild.com/basara/
Thanks a lot for yout feedback, I know there's a lot of things to do, but usually I don't get help with betatesting lately so all the work I do is alone (maybe I should ask for help in Discord, but there're so selfishly talk about CVS only that I stopped to try to even talk there). With this feedback I'll improve my Dan to get a better experience, I hope to update it during these months ;) (you know, still busy with my CF Project)

Also...
jay_ts said, August 30, 2023, 11:49:59 pm
Firstly, there is the hitboxes.
Oh no, I'm conscious of that, but I always hated Capcom hitboxes, so I made it my way as I do with my chars, and in the guide only there're few hitboxes to see and not all. Maybe I should remake the AIR but if it's for me I won't do that thing (but eventually should do it to be more accurate)

Rest in peace, Toriyama-san...
Normal WIPS - ClayFighter - Ideas - Anti-Gouki Project - Lifebars - Facebook - X

Amidweiz

Re: SFA2 Dan Hibiki has been released!!
#7  September 03, 2023, 11:35:49 pm
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Dr. Basara Kilnklein said, September 03, 2023, 06:27:20 pm
maybe I should ask for help in Discord, but there're so selfishly talk about CVS only that I stopped to try to even talk there.

Not really, sure p.o.t.s has overlap with CVS but not everybody is going on about that.

Dr. Basara Kilnklein said, September 03, 2023, 06:27:20 pm
Oh no, I'm conscious of that, but I always hated Capcom hitboxes, so I made it my way as I do with my chars, and in the guide only there're few hitboxes to see and not all. Maybe I should remake the AIR but if it's for me I won't do that thing (but eventually should do it to be more accurate)

The main reason why capcom and most other FG's do priority with extending the red hitbox beyond the blue because they don't have an in built priority system that mugen has (along with hitboxes describing motion) which is why said tip ended up on the tutorial. Along with mugen not really having a third collision for clashing which I could only really see feasible in ikemen go with helpers acting as said collision and redirectID shenanigans.
Last Edit: September 03, 2023, 11:46:57 pm by Amidweiz
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