The Mugen Fighters Guild - Sub-Zero/Scorpion

Sean Altly

Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#1 August 16, 2011, 11:20:49 pm

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

***This thread will now encompass all discussion for Sub-Zero AND Scorpion, now that Scorpion has been officially added***

So, been making some progress on Sub-Zero. At this rate, his sprites might be done very shortly after the polls close, which would be awesome because then I can get right to work on the winners. Anyway, I'm basing his animations off of his UMK3 sprites, but his actual look is his MK1/MK2 look with the scar added since it's kind of an iconic part of his design at this point. Here are some screen shots and .gifs (more in the spoiler):

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Here's his planned moveset for right now. It's a combination of moves from different versions of Sub-Zero, plus one original move, creating what I like to think of as my ideal Sub-Zero supplanted into a Capcom-style fighting game (and yes, that means no fatalities).

COMMAND MOVES:

-Roundhouse Kick - B+HK
-Classic MK-style roundhouse kick. Not sure if it will cause knock down quite yet, will have to see if that's balanced or not.

-Standing Sweep - B+LK
-Classic MK sweep.

SPECIAL MOVES:

-Freeze - D,DF,F,P
-Obviously, this is his freeze projectile. I will implement the Double Ice Backfire mechanic from the MK games.

-Diagonal Freeze - F,D,DF,P
-A diagonally-aimed Freeze projectile. Will work the same as the regular one.

-Low Freeze - D,DB,B,P
-A downard aimed Freeze projectile. Rather than the silly "slipping around" version, this will be sort of like MK9's where it freezes the ground, and if the opponent touches it, it will freeze them in place, or if they're close enough, they will just get the lower half of their body frozen.

-Ice Slide - D,DF,F,K
-The classic Slide attack.

-Ice Clone - B,D,DB,K
-Sub-Zero flips backwards, leaving an icy statue of himself behind that freezes the opponent if they come into contact with it.

-Cold Punishment - F,DF,D,DB,B,K
-Sub-Zero grabs the opponent and freezes them up to their waste. He then hits them several times in the face/torso while vulnerable before uppercutting them away. Partially inspired by his "Have an Ice Day" Fatality from MK9.

SUPER MOVES:

- Polar Blast (L1) - D,DF,F,S
-Sub-Zero creates a large orb-like ice blast that does moderate damage but also leaves the opponent frozen for an additional attack. Will have near full-screen range but will also be blockable.

-Blizzard Spikes (L1) - D,DB,B,S
-Sub-Zero directs a long ice blast at the ground, which causes a series of icy spikes to raise up in succession. If anyone has played as Adamas, think his L3 super move, or Hsien-Ko's Chireitou super.

-Brutality (L3) - F,D,DF,S
-Sub-Zero runs at his opponent and attacks them with a seemingly endless flurry of physical attacks, before finishing them off with an ice-assisted uppercut.

Anyway, ideas and suggestions are welcome. Let me know what you think.

***SCORPION***

Obviously Scorpion will be a palette swap of SUb-Zero with some unique animations. I won't be working on those unique animations until Sub-Zero is done, so for now take comfort in this single sprite and his planned movelist:

COMMAND MOVES:

-Roundhouse Kick - B+HK
-Classic MK-style roundhouse kick. Not sure if it will cause knock down quite yet, will have to see if that's balanced or not.

-Standing Sweep - B+LK
-Classic MK sweep.

SPECIAL MOVES:

-Spear - D,DF,F,P
-This is Scorpion's classic Spear move, which hits for some damage, then Scorpion pulls his opponent to him to set them up for an additional attack.

-Teleport Punch - D,DB,B,P
-Scorpion jumps backwards and teleports to the other side of the screen with his fist extended, punching his opponent.

-Hellfire - F,D,DF,P or K
-Scorpion raises up a colomn of Hellfire from beneath his opponent. The way the move will work in this game will be that different strength of punch or kick determines where the column appears. (LP - Close, LK - Med. Close, HP - Med. Far, HK - Far). It will be blockable as well.

-Scissors Takedown - D,DF,F,K
-Still working out the logistics here since normal characters don't have that required sweep anim they have in the MK games. I should check Blaire again to see how her creator makes her scissors takedown work in Mugen.

SUPER MOVES:

- Toasty (L1) - D,DF,F,S
-Scorpion removes his mask and reveals his skull face, then breathes fire towards his opponent. Basically his classic Fatality turned into a flamethrower like Super move.

-Hell's Inferno (L1) - F,D,DF,S
-Scorpion raises one massive Hellfire column that hits several times and sends the opponent flying. WIll be wider and taller then the regular column and last much longer. Think Zero's Rekkoha super from MVC3, but with the attacking pillar coming from below rather than above.

-No ideas for an L3 right now. Could easily just use Brutality again with a different finish, but I'm sure you guys have a better idea.

Also NO SWORDS.

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Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 10:25:49 am by Sean CenAltly

xxxx

Re: Sub-Zero

#2 August 16, 2011, 11:25:31 pm

I'll be back...

man thats sick(in the good way),how many people is helping you in this project?

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#3 August 16, 2011, 11:28:27 pm

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

I listed them all in the "I need help with this project" thread. As far as the new sprites needed for the game, nobody (and I mean new sprites just for this game, not counting the awesome Goku sprites by Balthazar, Li Kun's Hinata/Morrigan sprites, etc.)

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Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero

#4 August 16, 2011, 11:41:13 pm

As usual time to throw in my input.

No ice statue trap? Well I guess that would be hard to code or something so it's w/e. I think Sub-Zero will be really barebones with this moveset, so it might be beneficial to give him interesting properties on what he does have to make him more viable. Something like MK style jump-ins that put the opponent in a juggle state, fast freezes that makes for interesting combos, a sweep that special cancels out of pretty much all his ground attacks and puts the opponent in a juggle state after use or works as a sweep, make him build meter fast, the little things that make him feel like he's viable. He lacks in utility but you could make up for that in giving his minimal tools maximum effectiveness, something like Guile.

His Polar Blast sounds boss, I would like if you made it so that wasn't combo-able so that it's more like a risk/reward type of move. Blizzard Spikes would be nice as a OTG and his go-to super for mostly everything combo related but as most supers like that work, they have limited effectiveness if close to the wall. Brutality sounds great and you should make it have STUPID high damage and combo-ability to make up for Sub-Zero's otherwise limited ability.

Sub-Zero can be great if you do him correctly, but on paper he's barebones so you have to make an effort to make him great with excellent properties and mechanics for his moves just like Capcom does with Guile.

Khala

Re: Sub-Zero

#5 August 16, 2011, 11:41:59 pm

First jumping animation looks so funny, doesn't resemble Sub-Zero type of fighter...

Needs a bit more of detail in the gauntlets (?) for the stand anim, and I don't see why if does have detail in the shoulder part. Also, what is that light source under his chest?

Hero

Re: Sub-Zero

#6 August 16, 2011, 11:43:15 pm

Khala said, August 16, 2011, 11:41:59 pm

First jumping animation looks so funny, doesn't resemble Sub-Zero type of fighter...

Needs a bit more of detail in the gauntlets (?) for the stand anim, and I don't see why if does have detail in the shoulder part. Also, what is that light source under his chest?

Bah, the gauntlets may be optional, but I agree with the other details.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#7 August 17, 2011, 12:52:48 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Khala said, August 16, 2011, 11:41:59 pm

First jumping animation looks so funny, doesn't resemble Sub-Zero type of fighter...

Needs a bit more of detail in the gauntlets (?) for the stand anim, and I don't see why if does have detail in the shoulder part. Also, what is that light source under his chest?

Hilariously enough, all of those animations are based on his UMK3 sprites, so your comment is not terribly valid. That's his exact vertical jump anim with extra frames added for fluidity. Also, I stated in the very first post, his appearance is based on his MK1/MK2 appearance, so he doesn't really have additional detail in his gauntlets. For his shoulders, I'm not adding that quilted texture to the material, that would take forever and isn't necessary. Also, I don't know what you mean about the light source under his chest, that's just supposed to be his abdomen sticking out a bit to catch the above light source. Same with his loin cloth/flap thing. I guess his abs wouldn't stick out like that, so I'll remove it. Easier for me anyway.

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Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 01:19:47 am by Sean CenAltly

Luis Alejandro

Re: Sub-Zero

#8 August 17, 2011, 01:03:12 am

DCB | Vato

Have you played the MK9 version of sub zero? If you haven't then I suggest you should so you can brainstorm some more ideas or better yet incorporate some moves from the game. Also I think you should change the command of his sweep attack to b+HK like in every MK game.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#9 August 17, 2011, 01:18:06 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Yes, I've played MK9. What special moves does he have there, besides the Ice Clone, that aren't being used here? Also, the Roundhouse is B+HK, so the sweep would have to be B+LK here. He's being molded to adapt to this gameplay style, so certain things are going to have to change and be sacrificed.

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Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero

#10 August 17, 2011, 02:01:32 am

Yeah I've got nothing beyond what I've already said, Sub-Zero is just going to have to be barebones.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#11 August 17, 2011, 02:25:00 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

But what has he done in the games as special moves, minus the Ice Clone, that could be added to make him not "bare bones?" I mean, if this is "bare bones" then he's been bare bones in most of his iterations. I'll add the Ice Clone if that helps because it's not hard to code, it's just an issue of "how many different ways does the guy need to freeze his opponent?" and also because no one hardly ever falls for it. I don't want to get into Ice Sword stuff, so what else is there for specials?

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Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero

#12 August 17, 2011, 02:48:18 am

I'm only saying he's barebones because in actual MK games most characters are like him they don't have many moves but the actual engine supports this and encourages simpler combat. This game has people with plenty attacks and moves that all serve many functions but Sub-Zero...freezes you and slides but that's about it.

You can add the Ice Clone but if you don't want him to you don't need to add it, it won't make such a difference anyway. Regardless, as far as ways to innovate, uhh...uhhhh....uhhhhhhhhhhh...add a special move based on Blizzard Spikes? A single pillar comes out? One close up one far?

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#13 August 17, 2011, 02:52:43 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Oh, if you guys want me to innovate new moves for him to balance him out, I can definitely do that. I just figured you guys would want me to stick to his established MK arsenal.

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Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero

#14 August 17, 2011, 02:56:27 am

Uhh....a command grab that does no damage but freezes the opponent! That sure would be added utility!

Luis Alejandro

Re: Sub-Zero

#15 August 17, 2011, 03:26:17 am

DCB | Vato

Ice clones would be great, they work wonders if you know how to use them properly. I was also suggesting that you base his gameplay style(somewhat slow, heavy hitting, somewhat combo fiendish, zoning style) on his MK9 incarnation

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#16 August 17, 2011, 03:31:36 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Okay, I'll look into it.

I added two new specials to the first post, Ice Clone and a command grab, Cold Punishment, inspired by his Have an Ice Day fatality in MK9.

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Duo Solo

Re: Sub-Zero

#17 August 17, 2011, 03:33:44 am

I am happy to see you working on Sub Zero Sean!

Heres a few things you can give Subby:
-Target combos. In MK9, he has several of them, but there are a few that are very notable. For example, he has a combo where he temporary freezes the opponent (although the freeze lasts less than a second). You can even short cut and make his UMK3 combos as target combos (and possibly switch out the axe with an ice sword)
-There is a Focus Attack-like move Sub Zero has where he charges up his fists. At full charge, its unblockable and it sends the frozen opponent a little ways away in the air. At less than full charge, it does damage but doesn't freeze.
-For a super, you can have Sub Zero perform his X-Ray (without the X-Ray). Have him cover himself in ice and slide headfirst into the opponent. He then jabs them in the stomach and finishes it off with a headbutt to the face.

Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero

#18 August 17, 2011, 03:34:11 am

I would have just one more special or just another command normal and I'd say he's good.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#19 August 17, 2011, 03:41:49 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Well, as far as combos goes, everyone in the game adheres to the same combo system generally. It's a bit like MVC2, though not quite as over the top. The focus-attack like move isn't a bad idea though. Maybe that could be the additional special that Cazaki said he should have.

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Duos.act

Re: Sub-Zero

#20 August 17, 2011, 10:04:42 am

Palette God? Champion? AntiChrist? Something.
I AM THE KING OF PALETTES!!

If I can make a suggestion, I think you should alter the freeze ball super aesthetically. Maybe to make it a little more interesting, have it be a big glacial ball instead of a "misty" ice ball like his normal special? Or maybe an icicle that drills into the opponent?

Also maybe you could include the kori blade into part of his moveset that he used in the 3d games and MK9.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#21 August 17, 2011, 10:11:31 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Well, the Polar Blast comes from Mortal Kombat Mythologies. It's not a projectile, but more like Chun-Li's Kikoushou. He also does a similar move in the Mortal Kombat movie.

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Duos.act

Re: Sub-Zero

#22 August 17, 2011, 10:12:08 am

Palette God? Champion? AntiChrist? Something.
I AM THE KING OF PALETTES!!

Damn I totally forgot about MK Mythologies. It's been far too long.

Kirishima

Re: Sub-Zero

#23 August 19, 2011, 08:43:39 am

Build it, shape it, by my will.

I'll be very honest here. Brutality seems like a generic catch the opponent, beat them repeatedly, end with something flashy kind of Super when it's already been done by CM Punk. I'm talking variety here and a super like this just doesn't feel right for Sub-Zero from my perspective. It's your choice however to keep this in any way you want though.

I would consider giving his MK9 X-Ray as a Lv.3. I picture this having full priority against everything, making it a great counter move. It's fast and very punishable on block making it a risk/reward kind of move. The only thing Sub could do for this move is a headbutt upon grabbing.

If brutality stays, I recommend extending the move when the opponent's health is already depleted during impact for a bit of an MK feel.

My Palettes.

Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero

#24 August 19, 2011, 08:54:41 am

I'm an idiot. It's obvious what target combo Sub-Zero have. The rapid lp that's in the old MK games that staggers people after hitting them a few times. You know that jab jab jab jab jab thing.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#25 August 19, 2011, 09:31:28 pm

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Kirishima said, August 19, 2011, 08:43:39 am

I'll be very honest here. Brutality seems like a generic catch the opponent, beat them repeatedly, end with something flashy kind of Super when it's already been done by CM Punk. I'm talking variety here and a super like this just doesn't feel right for Sub-Zero from my perspective. It's your choice however to keep this in any way you want though.

I would consider giving his MK9 X-Ray as a Lv.3. I picture this having full priority against everything, making it a great counter move. It's fast and very punishable on block making it a risk/reward kind of move. The only thing Sub could do for this move is a headbutt upon grabbing.

If brutality stays, I recommend extending the move when the opponent's health is already depleted during impact for a bit of an MK feel.

I don't see how it doesn't feel right for Sub-Zero when Brutalities come directly from the Mortal Kombat games, and everyone had them. It seemed like a natural fit for a super for anybody from a Mortal Kombat game. In fact, of all of the things Sub-Zero has done in all of the Mortal Kombat games, including Fatalities, Combos, etc., a Brutality, to me, makes the most sense to be turned into a Super move. His X-Ray from MK9 wouldn't work as a L3 because the only thing that makes that move look powerful is the X-Ray effect, which it wouldn't have here, so it would just look like a shoulder rush, abdominal squeeze, and then a headbutt, and if you ask me, a Brutality sounds way better as a Super than that.

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Duos.act

Re: Sub-Zero

#26 August 19, 2011, 09:53:45 pm

Palette God? Champion? AntiChrist? Something.
I AM THE KING OF PALETTES!!

If you were to include an x-ray, Samurai Shodown series has x ray effects on Hanzo's attacks that you can have appear in the background along with an envshake.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#27 August 20, 2011, 08:26:01 pm

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Just finished all the required sprites along with his guard sprites. Most of the boring stuff is finished, so now it's on to his attacks. He is moving along so quickly, it's blowing my mind.

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Balthazar

Re: Sub-Zero

#28 August 21, 2011, 12:54:36 am

Srsly how can you be so friggin fast!

Dr. Bob, Beautician

Re: Sub-Zero

#29 August 21, 2011, 01:01:53 am

You ugly! We fix!

AWESOME!

So, umm, just curious: Do you intend on bringing us other ninjas down the line or are we sticking with Zero?

Just curious

Keep up the amazing work, man

MaxBeta said, April 17, 2012, 12:22:57 am

These palettes better make me cum rainbows when I see them.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#30 August 21, 2011, 02:03:47 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Yep, I officially added Scorpion to the roster thread earlier today.

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Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero

#31 August 21, 2011, 02:05:34 am

Wanna just make this the MK Ninja topic or....?

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#32 August 21, 2011, 02:06:52 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Not yet, just sticking with SUb-Zero right now. Haven't worked out Scorpion's movelist yet. I will soon though.

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SlenderMan

Re: Sub-Zero

#33 August 22, 2011, 07:29:11 am

I'm behind you!!!

that's awesome that you are doing Scorpion too..Imma send you some voice samples of both Subby and Scorpion..I would love to voice either of them.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero

#34 August 22, 2011, 10:01:15 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

First attack animations!

Light Punch

Light Kick

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SlenderMan

Re: Sub-Zero

#35 August 22, 2011, 10:11:46 am

I'm behind you!!!

where did you learn to sprite that well? I'm dying to know what tutorial or anything you looked at to get the CvS style down. and you've definitely put Binho's sprites to shame here. please lead me to whatever tutorial you learned from. I bow to your greatness

MDD

Re: Sub-Zero

#36 August 22, 2011, 11:04:48 am

OG Pallette Goon
Only here for one night let me put it on ya face

Zombie Sagat said, August 22, 2011, 07:29:11 am

Imma send you some voice samples of both Subby and Scorpion..I would love to voice either of them.

Did anyone ever rip their MK9 voices?

Also, Subby is looking great. Definitely send me a palette template soon for him.

HadeS

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#37 August 22, 2011, 03:28:19 pm

Nice anims, Sean, they looks very fluid, btw, nice job!

Garuda

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#38 August 22, 2011, 03:37:11 pm

There is a demente in everyone!

For Scorpion Lv 3 maybe you can adapt the other fatality he has in Mk3 or use his animality.

Or go creative and use his frendiship!

Duo Solo

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#39 August 22, 2011, 04:02:53 pm

Glad to see that Scorpion is being added to the roster. Sub Zero is look very fluid in his animations!

Enso

Re: Sub-Zero

#40 August 24, 2011, 09:49:39 am

The Yatagarasu will be coming in any moment.

Zombie Sagat said, August 22, 2011, 10:11:46 am

where did you learn to sprite that well? I'm dying to know what tutorial or anything you looked at to get the CvS style down. and you've definitely put Binho's sprites to shame here. please lead me to whatever tutorial you learned from. I bow to your greatness

I bet he sprited from scratch. What I mean is he captures a screenshot of an emulator he's playing and then he starts spriting it. I think that's how he does it like Li Kun's style. I'm not really sure how he does it..

Titiln said:

focus more and stop thinking about things like the internet or titties

Quote

Whatever happened to sex, drugs, and Rock. Nowadays, it's whores, AIDS, and Hip-Hop.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#41 August 24, 2011, 10:52:18 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Nah, in Sub-Zero's case, I took existing Sub-Zero sprites (his UMK3 ones), applied a palette that makes them into a silhouette (all black with a pink background) and then I draw the new sprites over the silhouettes. This is what I do for most of my characters, actually, so I can get nice animations and correct proportions.

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Balthazar

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#42 August 24, 2011, 10:59:33 am

^ This, I should try sometimes

SlenderMan

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#43 August 25, 2011, 01:43:49 am

I'm behind you!!!

Thats awesome dude..thanks Imma start doing that from now on..also one move idea for Scorpion since I feel like Subby always gets more moves throughout history..theres a move in MKvsDC where he engulfs himself in flames and those who touch him get burnt..its a good counter move and also you can have him do it for a few seconds so player 2 can shoot something at you to knock you down. I got the idea from when I was using POTS Shin Gouki taunt..it knocks player two away..you could also do a diagonal spear that pulls player 2 to the ground behind him.. for Subby he can freeze his arm into a blade(kinda like the liquid cop dude from Terminator 2) and attempt to stab player 2 and if successful he slams them off the ground a few times like a hammer.on the third slam the the ice blade arm shatters which releases player 2 with one good bounce..this would be a hyper attack..sorry for the long post but I had the ideas stuck in my head all day..

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#44 August 28, 2011, 12:35:46 pm

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

More animations!

All standards are done, along with freeze shot animation and slide. Here's what's left to do:

-Roundhouse Kick
-Ground Freeze
-Diagonal Freeze
-Air Freeze? (possibly adding this, or would it be too much you think?)
-Intro
-One or two more win poses
-Get Up Animation (I hate doing these for some reason)

Then it's on to Scorpion, who will only need a few unique animations. I might have his sprites done some time next week!

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ecthelionv2

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#45 August 28, 2011, 12:39:33 pm

Loading....Loading.....Error

Interesting. Would air free would be an ice clone in the air or an ice blast from the air.

I made this sig.

Props to a friend for my avvie

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#46 August 28, 2011, 12:40:28 pm

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

It would be an ice blast in the air.

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MDD

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#47 August 28, 2011, 12:41:58 pm

OG Pallette Goon
Only here for one night let me put it on ya face

Looking good! Air Freeze sounds cool. You should add it.

Also, send me that palette template or i'll be forced to use "other measures" to make palettes for him.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#48 August 28, 2011, 12:45:04 pm

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Alright, I'll send it later today some time.

Download Last Bout now!

MDD

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#49 August 28, 2011, 12:46:28 pm

OG Pallette Goon
Only here for one night let me put it on ya face

Cool. Is Scorpion going to use the same palette? If so, I can get started in him as well.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#50 August 28, 2011, 12:46:59 pm

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Yeah, he will be.

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SNT

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#51 August 28, 2011, 01:39:32 pm

Super Old Bitter Dude

Air Freeze, as in horizontal Freeze done in the air? Seems a little excessive to me.

Either way, have you considered streamlining the Freeze and Diagonal Freeze, have it work like Urien's Metallic Spheres or Gouken's hadoukens? The ability to freeze someone in a Capcom game is a little overpowering as it is without having to think about different projectile speeds, especially if you want straight and angled Freeze as well; having Light and Heavy use different angles instead might be a workaround. Between that, ground freeze and clones he's really got plenty of options for pinning someone down, especially if you're going to let people make ice clones in the air.

As for Scorpion's leg crab, Blair handled it with sprite rotation; taking one of the standing get-hit sprites and just turning it until it was parallel to the floor, then switching to prone state. If you can find any way to avoid rotating the sprites, I'd say go for it. Perhaps instead of rolling onto his side and twisting their legs over, he could scoot onto his butt, and flip their legs up as he rolls back? You could get away with animating it no different from a sweep like that.

It does change the move itself a bit, but it might be your only choice if you want to avoid rotation.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#52 August 28, 2011, 08:26:29 pm

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Well, the air freeze would have been a downward angle, not horizontal. I forgot ice clones are usually able to be done in the air, so maybe he doesn't need both an air freeze and an air ice clone.

Also, yeah, LP for Horizontal and HP for angled seems like a good idea, and it frees up the SRK command if I need it. And Scorpion's Takedown move will probably end up as you describe. Thanks for the feedback!

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SlenderMan

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#53 August 29, 2011, 03:16:00 am

I'm behind you!!!

Due to sprite limitations Id say do one similar..why dont you adopt batmans slide takedown and have player 2 fall over Scorpion..this way is easier and still close enough..also Scorpion has an air throw in both UMK3 and MK4. you press block in mid air and he grabs player 2 and whips them at the ground..good work on Subby dude

dênis gomes

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#54 August 30, 2011, 11:08:39 pm

Really Good to see Mortal kombat Guys in a mugen and they Are Too good Paletted *--*

all you do is good work man

i hope you release they soon to me test them

I just wanna Help

if i can.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#55 September 03, 2011, 07:23:22 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Posted a preview vid on Youtube earlier but I had to go to work before it was done processing.

Check it out HERE!

Download Last Bout now!

Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#56 September 03, 2011, 07:29:54 am

I love it. I fucking love it. Hyyyyyyyype.

dênis gomes

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#57 September 03, 2011, 11:57:30 pm

WTFFFF

Really GREATTT Work

I cant wait to see he Done !!

I just wanna Help

if i can.

Luis Alejandro

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#58 September 04, 2011, 12:13:35 am

DCB | Vato

Looks fantastic.

One little suggestions though. i noticed how when you freeze somebody they automatically freeze in there getting hit sprite, how about you use the group 5000 to use as an animation for when you freeze. you can adjust the time and palfx to make it look like the person is slowly getting frozen.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#59 September 04, 2011, 01:03:44 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

That's how it works now. They start in 5000,0, then they're frozen in 5000,10, then they go back to 5000,0 as they unfreeze. Works the same for crouching, but not air (for obvious reasons).

Download Last Bout now!

Luis Alejandro

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#60 September 04, 2011, 02:00:51 am

DCB | Vato

Then can you think about adjusting the time for each frame? I mean it could be just the video but it looks like the opponent just go to their hit sprite with no previous transitions.

I'm also really amazed by the whole development. Good fucking shit man

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#61 September 04, 2011, 07:17:59 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

The first frame (5000,0) is 4 ticks, the middle is the time frozen (I think about 90 ticks,), and the recovery frame is 4 ticks. Seems alright to me. Maybe it's the palfx, they're blue the whole time.

Download Last Bout now!

SlenderMan

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#62 September 04, 2011, 07:32:33 am

I'm behind you!!!

I like how yer making the freeze work, btw happy birthday Sean

Knuckles8864

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#63 September 04, 2011, 08:35:39 am

Was it something I said?

Very good presentation on the progress of Sub-Zero.

For one of Scorpion's supers, I'd suggest take off his mask, and breath fire on the opponent (much like Rorshach's Archie. But when Scorpion K.O.'s the opponent, the "TOASTY" sound plays.

Pretty simple, but pretty fitting for him.

Edit: Happy Birthday, dude!

Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 08:07:31 pm by Knuckles8864

SlenderMan

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#64 September 04, 2011, 08:43:06 am

I'm behind you!!!

same for subby sept have Dan say Frosty

xcheatdeath

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#65 September 04, 2011, 03:56:33 pm

commissions open bang my line

Excuse my unknowing knowledge but are these characters going to be released for separate download or only in the full game? o:

My stages folder:
https://app.mediafire.com/g5pnpb2im4lqa

Want a screenpack ported to ikemen? DM's open
Want a stage remade with parallax & possible super jump? DM's open

Berry

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#66 September 04, 2011, 03:58:47 pm

(´ー`)ﾉ

Looking at Shades...I think only some of them will be released. Probably the newer sprite ones, like Sub Zero or Axel. While maybe Ryu for example doesn't get released because there's already a lot of Ryus out there. That's my guess.

XamΣeta

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#67 September 04, 2011, 05:05:13 pm

IG @tanooki_ninja

I just saw your progress vid on my recomended yt this morning and wanted to stop by and say...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

...and keep up the amazing work. Your Sub and Scorp will replace Binho's...at least in my roster.

"We need other people in order to create the circumstances for the learning that we are here to generate" RIP Adam Yauch aka MCA
www.instagram.com/tanooki_ninja

hum

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#68 September 04, 2011, 05:36:51 pm

So much win, dude.

xcheatdeath

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#69 September 04, 2011, 05:56:04 pm

commissions open bang my line

Quote

Your Sub and Scorp will replace Binho's...at least in my roster.

Seconded.

My stages folder:
https://app.mediafire.com/g5pnpb2im4lqa

Want a screenpack ported to ikemen? DM's open
Want a stage remade with parallax & possible super jump? DM's open

SlenderMan

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#70 September 09, 2011, 10:19:17 pm

I'm behind you!!!

I auditioned for the voices of both of the ninjas today and hope Sean finds my clips useful.. wish me luck guys. I did a SubZero/Quan Chi homage sample too..maybe Sean can use it for a win pose where he accuses Quan Chi...this is your doing Sorcerer!!

mugenstation360

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#71 September 20, 2011, 02:28:45 am

Lets not bash people, be respectful human beings.

I like your art style, its interesting and very CVS-ish. What do you use to make the sprites? Im getting into Sprite editing/making and It would be cool to get a little advice from an experienced artist like yourself.

OK class! Now remember, in order to give someone proper feedback, you must BASH them! Because being nice, and or respectful, is frowned upon in the Mugen community... Ok, so what do we do to new creators and patch makers kids?

(Kids yelling) BASH THEM!!!
^lol, not sure why there is so much here. oh well

Cybaster

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#72 September 20, 2011, 03:17:54 am

Limited time to use Infinite power !

Sean CenAltly said, September 04, 2011, 01:03:44 am

That's how it works now. They start in 5000,0, then they're frozen in 5000,10, then they go back to 5000,0 as they unfreeze. Works the same for crouching, but not air (for obvious reasons).

How about developing a new optional standard animation, that you'd use for all the chars in CvTW to make them more unique. And if people want to make their chars compatible, they can too. Just use a special animation number not taken already, and use selfanimexist to trigger it (otherwise use the current anim).

It would be really nice seeing some ice behind the enemy, and getting a more unique sprite than just a palFX.

PS : I still have no idea to make sweep kick stand out compared to c.HK.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#73 September 20, 2011, 03:34:05 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Well, to be honest, what with possibly adding strikers, I don't know if I want to make a unique freezing animation for a cast of 40+ characters.

By the way, I just made C. HK not sweep, and I also made the standing sweep more combo friendly (ending combos of standards obviously).

Download Last Bout now!

Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 11:05:42 am by Sean CenAltly

Cybaster

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#74 September 20, 2011, 01:20:38 pm

Limited time to use Infinite power !

Sean CenAltly said, September 20, 2011, 03:34:05 am

I don't know if I want to make a unique freezing animation for a cast of 40+ characters.

A single sprite would be enough, something like this is what I had in mind :

walt

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#75 September 20, 2011, 05:13:45 pm

SNK is life

I ... how could I miss this thread? So much win ;_;

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#76 September 23, 2011, 09:02:21 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

walt said, September 20, 2011, 05:13:45 pm

I ... how could I miss this thread? So much win ;_;

Thank you sir.

***Unrelated Note***

Zombie Sagat asked me a pertinent question in a PM, and I figured I'd answer it here so everyone will know now rather than have to ask later. He asked whether these sprites would be open source because people would eventually want to create the other ninjas.

Yes, all of my sprites are open source, all I ask for is credit. I don't mind people using my sprites or editing them, but it does bother me to see someone head swap work that I put dozens of hours into and than bask in the adulation when a bunch of people go "great sprites, beautiful work" or whatever (even if they do credit me, but I'm only mentioned once and not after all the compliments). It has happened, that exact scenario actually. Anyway, like I said, for anyone interested, you do not have to PM me and ask permission, all of my stuff is open source. Although, even though I said you don't need to ask permission, I appreciate a heads up if you plan to extensively use my sprites for something. I just like to see how people expand upon or utilize my work, just out of curiosity and what not. I will never tell you no or ask you to stop, because I enjoy contributing and I'm also smart enough to know that once I release something onto the internet, that shit is fair game. Anyway, I hope this clears all that up.

Oh, and one more tiny, minor detail. [size=3pt]Expect a beta release of Sub-Zero this weekend.[/size]

Download Last Bout now!

Cybaster

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#77 September 23, 2011, 01:00:25 pm

Limited time to use Infinite power !

Adding a mustache is even less than head swapping.

PS : waiting for the weekend.

SlenderMan

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#78 September 23, 2011, 04:14:13 pm

I'm behind you!!!

it was actually Binhos various ninjas that brought up the question. many people have edited his ninjas. Look at Darkon and Lawrence. really they were really pallete swaps of subby and scorpion

Berry

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#79 September 23, 2011, 04:22:17 pm

(´ー`)ﾉ

Darkon was a character?........ >___<

xcheatdeath

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#80 September 23, 2011, 04:34:24 pm

commissions open bang my line

Oxe said, September 23, 2011, 04:22:17 pm

Darkon was a character?........ >___<

Why yes he was see for your self ---> http://darkon360.webs.com/mugencharacters.htm

My stages folder:
https://app.mediafire.com/g5pnpb2im4lqa

Want a screenpack ported to ikemen? DM's open
Want a stage remade with parallax & possible super jump? DM's open

Duo Solo

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#81 September 24, 2011, 01:52:13 am

...Made by the same guy who made the Yoshimitsu

SlenderMan

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#82 September 24, 2011, 03:56:42 am

I'm behind you!!!

Lets get back on topic here though. the point was made already. seans work is great..and hes a speed demon of a creator. i wish i had your talent for spriting and coding sean

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#83 September 25, 2011, 11:59:01 am

Deliverater
Who's that guy? A-L-T-L-Y

Just letting you guys know I will probably have to bump Sub-Zero's release to Monday. I worked more hours than I thought I would this weekend, and I haven't had a chance to do his AI or add his EX Moves. I am off from work after tomorrow though, so I should be able to finish him and release sometime Monday night.

Download Last Bout now!

HadeS

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#84 September 25, 2011, 02:28:37 pm

Oh, don't worry, you have a life outside from Mugen

Haver of Sex

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#85 October 03, 2011, 03:58:39 am

behold my power

I would like to offer suggestions for Scorpion's LV3 and specials.

Scorpion's MK4 Throw(ala Fei Long) - QCB, K (air also or just air)
EX Throw floor bounces for juggling.
Diag. Spear which catches falling opponents and throws them away from Scorpion.

Startup: Short Dash (half-screen or quarter-screen) and Uppercut ala Final Mission.
Opponent is launched in the air, scorpion does an assault of teleport punches, alternates in hitting the opponent's front and back two or three times.
Scorpion is on the ground at the last hit, summoning a pillar of fire under the airbourne opponent.
Or instead of landing at the last hit, Scorpion does a God Press-like move, as the opponent lands under him, a pillar of fire rises from the ground and covers them.

so many hdd crashes QQ

Knuckles8864

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#86 October 03, 2011, 04:13:43 am

Was it something I said?

For a level 3 super, you could do Scorpion's UMK3 Fatality where Scorpion teleports the opponent to the Netherrealm, and summons his clan to attack.

If so, you're gonna have to make it like Jedah's ground super, but make Scorpion grab the opponent though.

That's just a thought.

Duos.act

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#87 October 04, 2011, 01:54:32 am

Palette God? Champion? AntiChrist? Something.
I AM THE KING OF PALETTES!!

This is personally how I would handle Scorpion's movelist.

Spear
Fire Breath (works similar to Dhalsim's yoga fire or Raiden's poison breath)
Teleport Punch
Hellfire (works similar to Blackheart's inferno but smaller)
Flame Kick from MK deception (works similar to flash kick, but with DP command like Ingrid's)

LV1 Super - Inferno Breath (Works like Yoga Inferno or Raiden's Flame Breath from CVS2)
LV2 Super - Inferno Tower (Scorpion drags his spear along the ground beneath him like his MK9 winpose, but a giant flame pillar appears around him for a bit. Similar to Gaoh's super from Samurai Shodown 5 Special)
LV3 Super - Journey to Hell (Scorpion throws his spear. If it connects, he brings the opponent in and grabs the, dragging them with him downwards into the underworld. The opponent's KO scream plays as a giant sinister pillar of flame, bigger than the one for the level 2, comes out of the portal with the opponent taking hits. Maybe throw in some blood ala Basara's zetsumei ougi from Samurai Shodown 5. At the end, Scorpion uppercuts his opponent out of the portal and teleports back to the stage. For a special animation after the move is finished, Scorpion throws his spear after the uppercut to drag them back down into hell.)

For an alternate take on the level 2, I considered something like Blackheart's hyper, or a rising anti air like Geese's Raging Storm/Cassandra's super from ROTD. The level 3 I had in mind being a punisher type super that came out very fast but was blockable, to punish reckless movements or unsafe attacks. Instead of the flash kick, maybe an anti air spear ending with him dragging them across the ground a la MK9 would be a better choice..

SlenderMan

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#88 October 04, 2011, 03:03:38 am

I'm behind you!!!

That all sounds fine and dandy bout the mk9 drag thing but that involves some unique coding..sounds good though. they are all things he would do

Duos.act

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#89 October 04, 2011, 03:05:26 am

Palette God? Champion? AntiChrist? Something.
I AM THE KING OF PALETTES!!

It doesn't require anything but a series of simple vels.

SlenderMan

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#90 October 04, 2011, 03:30:19 am

I'm behind you!!!

Not quite home slice..either it features custom animations or a specific helper that creates the illusion of dragging..thats what his normal spear move is..but with your MK9 idea its a bit more complicated

Duo Solo

Re: Sub-Zero/Scorpion

#91 October 04, 2011, 04:54:36 am

Badass. Thats the only word that fits the level 3.

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