YesNoOk
avatar

Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread (Read 10992 times)

Started by Steel Komodo, January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
Email this topic
View printable version
« previous next »
Page 1 of 21 2 >  All   Go Down

Steel Komodo

Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#1  January 28, 2024, 05:34:18 pm
  • ***
  • I have no idea what I'm doing.
    • UK
Been a long time since I was active on here. And starting since last year, I've been getting the itch to go into MUGEN stuff again. Recently, I was looking at Capcom Fighting All-Stars - take a shot for every time somebody brings that up :P - and I was thinking to myself "could we adapt this to a 2D game at all"? There's obviously a lot of flaws in the concept, but I think there could be something fun if we sat down and gave some thought to the mechanics and how they'd work. So I sat down and began thinking in terms of what I'd want to keep, change and remove.


Things I'd keep
  • Four-button gameplay. Capcom games have done that before to some success, so I don't see why it can't work.
  • Finishing moves. That's not a thing Capcom's done, and it'd definitely be a unique selling point of nothing else. We'd obviously need them to be cool and flashy and not out of character for the Capcom cast.
  • Level 1, Level 2 and Level 3 Supers. I point at Street Fighter 6 and say no more.
  • The Sidestep button. That could easily be reworked into a Dodge button, which I will go into in more detail.
  • The game is obviously trying to create a consistent "Capcom Universe" featuring characters from all their franchises but grounded in the existing Street Fighter/Rival Schools/Final Fight world. I think that's interesting, so we can expand on that as we consider the roster.

Things I'd change
  • The roster is my first concern. Only 16 characters overall and not that much female and/or villainous representation. Also,  for a game called Capcom Fighting All-Stars, there's hardly any all-stars in it at all.  Let's bump that up to a nice, round 20 so we can get more fan-favourites in.
  • On top of that, some characters could be potentially swapped out for more interesting ones. Not a huge fan of Alex, so Ibuki, Makoto, Dudley or Urien could replace him. Also, Akira could be swapped with Tiffany, depending on preference.
  • Now, onto mechanics. I don't know what the combo system in the original game was like, but I would personally prefer something close to Rival Schools. Maaaaaybe put in air combos?
  • The sidestep button being a dodge button is a given. Dramatic Counter could be closer to V-Shift, IMO - spend a bar of meter to counterattack if a dodge is successful.
  • The way rounds work in the game isn't really possible in MUGEN, so that'll obviously be different.
  • Since Declaration of Victory is obviously something we can't do in MUGEN, I'd want Finishing Moves to be closer to something like Guilty Gear's Instant Kills, with extra caveats to make them not too easy to pull off.

Things I'd remove
  • I really don't care for the tone of the original game. The story's melodramatic, edgy and cringeworthy in that unique early 2000's way and the visuals are not what I associate with Capcom. I'd want to go for something lighter in tone and more colourful than that.
  • Most of the original characters are lame as shit. Maybe you could salvage Ingrid, but Rook and D.D. can go. Avel/Death kind of needs to be there as a final boss, but I don't care much for him either, so if there was any excuse to take him out, I would.

MUGEN or IKEMEN?
Here's the thing. I'd like to do this in Ikemen, because of the extra features it has, and I would love for people to be able to play this game online. But I don't know shit about how to program for it and I kind of don't trust myself to with how long I've been away from doing anything related to MUGEN. My best bet, honestly, would be to do everything in MUGEN to start, and then maybe later port it to IKEMEN, or have some other brave soul do it for me.


So here we are. I don't know how any of this would work in execution, honestly. Maybe the problem with Fighting All-Stars was just that it was never any fun to play to begin with, so trying to salvage anything from it would be like trying to polish a turd. I'd love to see something like this come about, but maybe the effort trying to recreate and upgrade a decades-old cancelled game would be better spent in actually coming up with interesting new mechanics and gameplay instead. I do have a backup plan on similar lines to that, but I want to know what people think of this idea first before I go into detail on that.

Let me know what you all think about this. I'll go away and ponder this some more, and then when I come back I'll share my other idea on the system and see how people think compared to this one.
Last Edit: January 28, 2024, 07:04:31 pm by Steel Komodo

SquidlyPoli1

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#2  January 28, 2024, 08:45:04 pm
  • **
  • Did I hear something about a scooby snack?
    • USA
    • squidlypoli1.neocities.org

  • Online
I feel like the declaration of victory thing could be done if it were the other way around, the user surrendering to their opponent and getting a full meter for the next round (like a samsho suicide). I don't feel like instakills are as interesting as making a taunt stop the flow of a match, although maybe that's just me getting tired of arcsys conversions and some astral heats trying way too hard to be flashy.
The roster is probably the part I'm most willing to talk about but I didn't see the entire roster of the original CFAS so I don't really know how well things were represented. I like the idea of playing with the "Street Fighter extended universe" idea but I feel like a Capcom crossover fighter would have to represent much more than that.
Last Edit: January 28, 2024, 09:01:09 pm by SquidlyPoli1

Steel Komodo

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#3  January 28, 2024, 09:38:58 pm
  • ***
  • I have no idea what I'm doing.
    • UK
SquidlyPoli1 said, January 28, 2024, 08:45:04 pm
I feel like the declaration of victory thing could be done if it were the other way around, the user surrendering to their opponent and getting a full meter for the next round (like a samsho suicide). I don't feel like instakills are as interesting as making a taunt stop the flow of a match, although maybe that's just me getting tired of arcsys conversions and some astral heats trying way too hard to be flashy.
The roster is probably the part I'm most willing to talk about but I didn't see the entire roster of the original CFAS so I don't really know how well things were represented. I like the idea of playing with the "Street Fighter extended universe" idea but I feel like a Capcom crossover fighter would have to represent much more than that.

I just mean in terms of wherever Declaration of Victory could even be done in MUGEN on a technical level. I'm kind of leery about putting it in at all anyway, since it sounds like one of those mechanics that was geared towards the arcade audience and would frustrate players on home consoles/PCs or whatever.

The roster for the original CFAS was oddly conservative. It was only 16 characters, inclding the four original characters and the guest character, and it consisted of:
  • Ryu (Street Fighter)
  • Chun-Li (Street Fighter II)
  • Alex (Street Fighter III)
  • Charlie (Street Fighter Alpha)
  • Mike Haggar (Final Fight)
  • Poison (Final Fight)
  • Batsu (Rival Schools)
  • Akira (Rival Schools)
  • Strider Hiryu (Strider)
  • Demitri (Darkstalkers)
  • Akuma (Street Fighter II)
  • D.D. (Capcom Fighting All-Stars)
  • Rook (Capcom Fighting All-Stars)
  • Ingrid (Capcom Fighting All-Stars)
  • Avel/Death (Capcom Fighting All-Stars)
  • Kyo Kusanagi (King of Fighters guest character)

So... yeah. Very focused on the "shared universe" of Street Fighter, Final Fight and Rival Schools, very little representation from other franchises. That's not to say a more "grounded" crossover couldn't work - Street Fighter V literally confirmed Strider to be part of the larger SF universe, so Strider being here is kind of hilarious in hindsight. But still, even I think there's wiggle room to get some more weird characters in there.

Say, for example, Edward Falcon from Power Stone is in. We can easily say he's from England, since the original world of Power Stone is literally just a fantastical version of Earth. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to just retailor his story and plonk him into this shared universe we're cooking up. And since Darkstalkers characters keep creeping in, who's to say that Makai doesn't exist in the world of Street Fighter? It's no crazier than literal oni or robots walking around. And if we have robots like Seth, then what's stopping us from saying a version of Tron Bonne or Mega Man exists here? That last one's a bit of a stretch, but you get what I mean, right?

Also, I would have just not bothered with the original characters myself. One or two, maybe - one for the final boss. But they were generally lame overall, and I wouldn't have given three whole slots over to them.

Miru962

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#4  January 29, 2024, 06:09:15 am
  • avatar
  • **
    • USA
Steel Komodo said, January 28, 2024, 09:38:58 pm
SquidlyPoli1 said, January 28, 2024, 08:45:04 pm
I feel like the declaration of victory thing could be done if it were the other way around, the user surrendering to their opponent and getting a full meter for the next round (like a samsho suicide). I don't feel like instakills are as interesting as making a taunt stop the flow of a match, although maybe that's just me getting tired of arcsys conversions and some astral heats trying way too hard to be flashy.
The roster is probably the part I'm most willing to talk about but I didn't see the entire roster of the original CFAS so I don't really know how well things were represented. I like the idea of playing with the "Street Fighter extended universe" idea but I feel like a Capcom crossover fighter would have to represent much more than that.

I just mean in terms of wherever Declaration of Victory could even be done in MUGEN on a technical level. I'm kind of leery about putting it in at all anyway, since it sounds like one of those mechanics that was geared towards the arcade audience and would frustrate players on home consoles/PCs or whatever.

The roster for the original CFAS was oddly conservative. It was only 16 characters, inclding the four original characters and the guest character, and it consisted of:
  • Ryu (Street Fighter)
  • Chun-Li (Street Fighter II)
  • Alex (Street Fighter III)
  • Charlie (Street Fighter Alpha)
  • Mike Haggar (Final Fight)
  • Poison (Final Fight)
  • Batsu (Rival Schools)
  • Akira (Rival Schools)
  • Strider Hiryu (Strider)
  • Demitri (Darkstalkers)
  • Akuma (Street Fighter II)
  • D.D. (Capcom Fighting All-Stars)
  • Rook (Capcom Fighting All-Stars)
  • Ingrid (Capcom Fighting All-Stars)
  • Avel/Death (Capcom Fighting All-Stars)
  • Kyo Kusanagi (King of Fighters guest character)

So... yeah. Very focused on the "shared universe" of Street Fighter, Final Fight and Rival Schools, very little representation from other franchises. That's not to say a more "grounded" crossover couldn't work - Street Fighter V literally confirmed Strider to be part of the larger SF universe, so Strider being here is kind of hilarious in hindsight. But still, even I think there's wiggle room to get some more weird characters in there.

Say, for example, Edward Falcon from Power Stone is in. We can easily say he's from England, since the original world of Power Stone is literally just a fantastical version of Earth. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to just retailor his story and plonk him into this shared universe we're cooking up. And since Darkstalkers characters keep creeping in, who's to say that Makai doesn't exist in the world of Street Fighter? It's no crazier than literal oni or robots walking around. And if we have robots like Seth, then what's stopping us from saying a version of Tron Bonne or Mega Man exists here? That last one's a bit of a stretch, but you get what I mean, right?

Also, I would have just not bothered with the original characters myself. One or two, maybe - one for the final boss. But they were generally lame overall, and I wouldn't have given three whole slots over to them.

Strider nothing, SF6 featured a side quest featuring characters from Breath of Fire, a literal fantasy world with even fewer ties to our own than Power Stone, appearing in it. So SF's KOF-esque side game already has precedent (it is already fairly KOF-ish in scope, KOF is 50% originals after all and hasn't added non-FG characters in decades) to happen; and with Strider, the series is impossible to rectify with SF canon as-is unless Strider as we know it is a Bad Future of SF. (the Soviet Union is still around in Strider, but only lasted about as long as the real one in SF) On the other hand; the "SF Shared Universe" vs "The Entire Rest of Capcom" could be fun to see too; 20 SF universe fighters and 20 less-grounded fighters.

So basically any Capcom IP could be game; even those not normally rectifiable with SF; but IMO I'd stay away from at the very least Capcom's other golden children RE and MH; DMC and AA are pushing it but considering Mega Man could get in I don't see why not. Some IP with more cartoony tone/historic setting could be jarring on the playable roster though; the KOF series likes to stretch its crossovery via stage cameos by many other characters and IP than are playable in it, which is fun to see.




And wouldn't it be cool if villainous characters got actual fatalities instead of Declaration of Victory moves?

Steel Komodo

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#5  January 29, 2024, 11:21:01 am
  • ***
  • I have no idea what I'm doing.
    • UK
Gonna be blunt and say I didn't know anything about Strider's lore until you said it just now :P. In that case, I feel the only way to square that off would be to say that the Strider organization started by Zeku isn't the same one from the main Strider games. It's just that world's version of Strider, not the Strider, if you catch my drift. Same as what I was talking about with Edward Falcon earlier - it's not the Edward Falcon, but it is a version of Edward Falcon.

...did they ever explain how Fou Lu ended up in the Street Fighter world, by the way? I always assume it's portals until told otherwise.

Also, I have to respectfully disagree on the subject of "fatalities". As I already stated in the first post, one of the things I don't like about the original concept is the weird, dark grungy tone that's reflected in the story and visuals. I'd like to try and move away from that as much as possible, and giving Capcom villains violent fatalities would be the opposite of that effort, in my opinion.

SquidlyPoli1

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#6  January 29, 2024, 09:25:02 pm
  • **
  • Did I hear something about a scooby snack?
    • USA
    • squidlypoli1.neocities.org

  • Online
I do have to agree about the fatality thing, I just dont think itd work at all and would just be way too out of place. I initially remembered the declaration of victory thing wrong and thought it was an easy "I win the round" taunt that didnt actually have anything to do with the original rounds system. I guess finishing moves in the style of GG instakills would probably work better for that kind of function but at the same time itd be really hard to make them for some characters if they already have a level 3 that is just as flashy to finish with.

I feel like the actual CFAS roster probably had the same problems people had with CFJ, though it was probably more understandable than that since CFAS was made from the ground up and CFJ was an asset dump. It feels like they wanted to represent as many archetypes as they could so not every fan favorite was able to get in, but that could probably be remedied now if we have four more slots to add to the general roster and at least two we could probably replace (assuming we leave out DD and Rook if theyre really that uninteresting). Despite Zeku making the inclusion age funny in hindsight, I guess Strider could set a precedent for some non-FG picks though I feel like I would want at least one weirder pick than the typical Dantes and Megamans that everyone wants to see. It would probably require a bit of digging but I'm sure it could be done.

Miru962

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#7  January 29, 2024, 10:22:20 pm
  • avatar
  • **
    • USA
SquidlyPoli1 said, January 29, 2024, 09:25:02 pm
I do have to agree about the fatality thing, I just dont think itd work at all and would just be way too out of place. I initially remembered the declaration of victory thing wrong and thought it was an easy "I win the round" taunt that didnt actually have anything to do with the original rounds system. I guess finishing moves in the style of GG instakills would probably work better for that kind of function but at the same time itd be really hard to make them for some characters if they already have a level 3 that is just as flashy to finish with.

I feel like the actual CFAS roster probably had the same problems people had with CFJ, though it was probably more understandable than that since CFAS was made from the ground up and CFJ was an asset dump. It feels like they wanted to represent as many archetypes as they could so not every fan favorite was able to get in, but that could probably be remedied now if we have four more slots to add to the general roster and at least two we could probably replace (assuming we leave out DD and Rook if they're really that uninteresting). Despite Zeku making the inclusion age funny in hindsight, I guess Strider could set a precedent for some non-FG picks though I feel like I would want at least one weirder pick than the typical Dantes and Megamans that everyone wants to see. It would probably require a bit of digging but I'm sure it could be done.

"Weird" is subjective and can be as simple as a supporting character from one of those popular series, or as complex as a franchise Capcom have more or less disowned. It's a hard subject, but KOF did refrain from SNK's other golden child IPs like Metal Slug and SamSho outside of special occasions; those two were largely reserved for true mash-up games like NGBC instead. CFAS refraining from RE and Monster Hunter in favor of lower tier IPs, with SF, much like Fatal Fury in SNK's case, being the biggest IP included, makes sense.

And yeah, the whole "it's not THE Edward Falcon" is more or less what SNK does; the "golden child" IPs aside from FF tend to actually be those characters for real however, hence why they seem saved for special occasions and more full crossovers. Capcom kind of has IP tiers going on among its 150~ IP.

Tier S (golden child)
Street Fighter
Resident Evil
Monster Hunter

Tier A (mainstays)
Mega Man
Devil May Cry
Ace Attorney
Street Fighter II
Final Fight
Mega Man Battle Network
Mega Man X

Tier B (semi-mainstays)
Street Fighter Alpha
Darkstalkers
Mega Man (classic)
Mega Man Legends
Street Fighter III
Strider
Ghosts N Goblins
Rival Schools

Tier C (occasional throwbacks)
Power Stone
Star Gladiator
Captain Commando
Street Fighter IV
Mega Man Zero
Mega Man ZX
Breath of Fire
Dead Rising
Okami
Gargoyle's Quest
Bionic Commando (Might now be in Tier D)
Ghost Trick
Onimusha
Viewtiful Joe

Tier D (basically dead, no real revivals)
Red Earth
Armored Warriors/Cyberbots/Tech Romancer
19XX
God Hand
Asura's Wrath
SonSon
Lost Planet
Wolf of the Battlefield
Remember Me
Quiz Nanario Dreams
Mega Man Star Force

Tier E (even deader)
Heroic Fantasy (King of Dragons, Knights of the Round, Black Tiger, Magic Sword)
Steel Battalion
Capcom World/Adventure Quiz
Three Wonders
Otoranger
Legendary Wings
Battle Circuit
Slam Masters
Vulgus
Forgotten Worlds

Tier F+ (disowned by Capcom, but the fans are starving)
Gaist Crusher
Zack and Wiki
Gotcha Force
Maximo
Under the Skin

Tier F (utterly disowned, not even references)
Code Name: Viper
EX Troopers
Chiki Chiki Boys/Mega Twins
Avenger
Pnickies
Misc Shmups (Carrier Air Wing, etc)
Trojan

Tier F- (disowned even by fans; scorned instead of forgotten)
Spyborgs
MaXplosion
Beat Down
Dark Void


A pick from Tier E or below, for example, would definitely be considered weird.

Also, due to developments in the SF6 story and the move away from tournaments as a focus in favor of more personal and "street" stories, this opens things up to a new story centered around the World Warrior tournament once again, without taking the limelight away from SF6's plot. Maybe even the final boss would be non-malicious, to fit in with the lighter tone of the game?

Oh yeah, maybe you can excuse me so I can do some character concept sprites...
Last Edit: January 29, 2024, 10:42:07 pm by Miru962

Steel Komodo

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#8  January 29, 2024, 11:13:44 pm
  • ***
  • I have no idea what I'm doing.
    • UK
Sure, go ahead. I'm interested to see what you come up with  :)

Miru962

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#9  January 30, 2024, 02:34:11 am
  • avatar
  • **
    • USA
Steel Komodo said, January 29, 2024, 11:13:44 pm
Sure, go ahead. I'm interested to see what you come up with  :)


https://i.postimg.cc/50FJ7qzt/CFAS-Iris-concept1.png


First up, here's Harmonious Iris from the MMX series, specifically X-Dive. Originally, she was just "Iris", but the version/name from the mobile game sounds more like a full Maverick codename akin to the various MOTW in the X-series; and BN shows characters from what are otherwise different Megaman incarnata together in the same time range. Same here, but with robotics. (If you excuse me I'm gonna need to find a good base for the monster form)

She's mainly based on Footee from the Asura series, but in the Delta Red green leotard, editing her tights on her legs to be more like bared skin, which I made the pale color possible in SF6 (my recreation of her in the SF6 engine also has this skin tone), with other features to imply she is an android. I added on a beret from CPS2 Rolento, then the CPS2 R. Mika boots on her legs to give her stronger kicking power. I had some ideas for her gameplay (stance system fighter) as well. The colors/shape of her belt, armbands, and ponytail holder are not final; I want to keep evoking the Delta Red elements because she will be part of them; having been leaned over from SIN (still active in SF6, possibly having gone legit) Also, I want to find a way to adapt Pure from Capcom Quiz into the game; I really like her and think she needs official crossover exposure as well. Pure here takes on a more typical magical girl bent rather than being a literal fantasy mage; she'd be a protege of someone like Karin or Sakura as well. She'd be an activist and work at an animal shelter/sanctuary, and enters not only to help save the sanctuary from land developers, but also to see Ingrid.



Pure, as she currently stands, is just a headswap of Karin for the most part (though credit to Beximus and Gladiacloud for the original sprites of Pure), but I think some other features could be added onto her (especially the lower body) to make her distinctive. I edited her jester hat into more of a simple beanie.

On top of adapting less grounded characters, I could see the familiar characters given new, or at least lesser-known, outfits for this adventure, rather than the usual designs.
Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 04:10:04 am by Miru962

SquidlyPoli1

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#10  January 30, 2024, 03:44:34 am
  • **
  • Did I hear something about a scooby snack?
    • USA
    • squidlypoli1.neocities.org

  • Online
Miru962 said, January 29, 2024, 10:22:20 pm
"Weird" is subjective and can be as simple as a supporting character from one of those popular series, or as complex as a franchise Capcom have more or less disowned. It's a hard subject, but KOF did refrain from SNK's other golden child IPs like Metal Slug and SamSho outside of special occasions; those two were largely reserved for true mash-up games like NGBC instead. CFAS refraining from RE and Monster Hunter in favor of lower tier IPs, with SF, much like Fatal Fury in SNK's case, being the biggest IP included, makes sense.

And yeah, the whole "it's not THE Edward Falcon" is more or less what SNK does; the "golden child" IPs aside from FF tend to actually be those characters for real however, hence why they seem saved for special occasions and more full crossovers. Capcom kind of has IP tiers going on among its 150~ IP.

Also, due to developments in the SF6 story and the move away from tournaments as a focus in favor of more personal and "street" stories, this opens things up to a new story centered around the World Warrior tournament once again, without taking the limelight away from SF6's plot. Maybe even the final boss would be non-malicious, to fit in with the lighter tone of the game?

I probably was aiming more for the really obscure stuff but side characters from popular franchises (including the SF/FF/RS trifecta) could probably also count. I also feel like I'd want characters to not just represent the series they come from but also specific niches, mainly just so the roster doesnt fall into the pit of safety/shallowness that most capcom crossover rosters are in or the perceived lack of variety that CFJ's roster has issues with. I'd have to figure out how to solve the issues but also figure out what niches I actually want to represent just so we don't wind up reinventing the wheel or going backwards with what representation works and what doesn't.

When I brought up boring astral heats in my initial response I was mainly referring to OHMSBY style characters, but on a second thought I think the mechanic itself wasnt handled too terribly. They're flashy cinematics people like seeing but you have to have a full meter and the opponent has to have a quarter of their life left. Sure you can use them in both rounds and style on people in a really stupid way but I don't have to copy every property they have, just the ones I like the most. GG's instant kills are kinda the same way but they're on a timer and start draining your life after the timer finishes, probably a trade-off as the opponent doesn't have to be at a quarter of their life but probably not the way I'd want to go if the mechanic is meant to be a replacement for the weird declaration of victory mechanic.

Basara Lapis

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#11  January 30, 2024, 05:12:12 pm
  • ******
  • Take better care of the plants around u or become
  • the fertilizer that feeds them.The choice is yours
    • Chile
    • network.mugenguild.com/basara/
This is a good idea indeed, but there're already some compilations fullgames that also are called as CFAS with that premise. I would like to see a real 2D adaptation of CFAS sometime, since all fighters from the cancelled game (except the other 2 protagonists apart of Ingrid) were already made for MUGEN and can make the roster, like Haggar, Poison, Batsu and Akira already sprited by other creators, just need to make a good and solid base and then using the sprites and you can do it.

BTW the new roster you want also looks great, good luck with this, I hope you can achieve something for MUGEN, would be awesome ;)

Rest in peace, Toriyama-san...
Normal WIPS - ClayFighter - Ideas - Anti-Gouki Project - Lifebars - Facebook - X

Steel Komodo

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#12  January 30, 2024, 06:20:34 pm
  • ***
  • I have no idea what I'm doing.
    • UK
Basara-Kun: Thanks very much for commenting! Like I said before, there's a lot about the original game that I think needs updating for modern sensibilities, especially in terms of gameplay, and I'm not a huge fan of the early 2000's 'edgy' vibe to the story and presentation. But If I do ever find the time and energy to carry this out, I do want to bring over as much of the original intent of that concept as I can so that people understand where it came from and what it might be like to actually have had such a thing.

Also, don't worry - I'm fully aware of those other games/compilations using that name. I might change the title of this effort to be somewhat different. Maybe something like Capcom Fighting Chaos, or Capcom Fighting Saga...? I'll workshop it.

SquidlyPoli1 and Miru962, I'll respond to you both in a moment. Today's been kind of hectic and I haven't had much time to look on here and reply to people.

Miru962

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#13  January 31, 2024, 01:51:11 am
  • avatar
  • **
    • USA
In fact, I've not only refined the concept sprites for my ideas further, I've also begun to come up with gameplay ideas for them as well.



Iris here, I had a concept for her to be a baijiquan+sambo fighter; basically think the Dolls meet Yun/Yang. On the other hand, SF never has had krav maga in the series before... I've given her skin some more markings similar to SF6's robot-type characters like Robbie and the Copy Fighters (though I was, and to an extent still am, under the impression Seth was more of a mutant than a robot, if there's a way to get Iris in than so be it; and is Robbie literally gonna become Proto Man or something?), to make her nature a bit more clear, and made the color scheme more consistent.



With Pure, I darkened her skin a bit (she's Latina in this universe), and added longer socks while removing the thick shorts. I think yeah she'd probably have a similar gameplay to Karin, but more like KOF's Shingo Yabuki and his critical hit system.

Speaking of KOF... ya know how KOF was derived from the Tournament seen in Fatal Fury 1 and other FF/AoF games? Well, Street Fighter has the World Warrior tournament, which has been less in-focus since SF4 (it doesn't appear in SF5 and is a secondary plot thread only played through as the avatar instead of a main character)... let's just call this game:


The World Warrior!

I've also gotta brainstorm what outfits Felicia and Hsien-Ko would wear in this, as part of my "new/deep cut costumes for familiar fighters" concept.
Last Edit: January 31, 2024, 01:56:10 am by Miru962

SquidlyPoli1

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#14  January 31, 2024, 03:44:40 am
  • **
  • Did I hear something about a scooby snack?
    • USA
    • squidlypoli1.neocities.org

  • Online
Basara is right in most of the characters from the OG cancelled game existing in some way or another and I did want to bring up how many times the concept of a crazy capcom crossover has been done, but I feel like the draw for this would be different from a typical "capcom crossover mugen" or even other projects that tried to do "marvel vs capcom minus marvel" and would be based around the fact that it'd want to try new things and see how well they work out. I guess miru's ideas kinda tie into "trying new things", but extreme redesigns in a similar vein to KoF or even something like disney mirrorverse feels like a bit too extreme of "trying new things" and I don't really see it panning out as well as it could. I'm still waiting for steelkomodo's response to my earlier comments and maybe he could clarify some of the things that weren't initially understood.
Last Edit: January 31, 2024, 03:50:00 am by SquidlyPoli1

Steel Komodo

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#15  January 31, 2024, 03:50:30 pm
  • ***
  • I have no idea what I'm doing.
    • UK
Sorry to reply so late. Been dealing with some shitty IRL news, so I didn't have the chance to reply until now. I wanna give a bit of a blanket statement here, since I've had time to think about it over last night and this morning. I dunno if I'll address everything that's been said in here, but I hope it covers enough.

I think SquidlyPoli1's actually right when they talk about reinterpreting characters for the setting. I said that at the beginning to try and reconcile, it my own head, how characters like Strider and Demitri were on the roster, and how the hell we could justify getting weirder roster picks in that would actually make the title Capcom Fighting All-Stars mean something. And honestly, this is something I've been thinking of walking back on.

Let's be real with ourselves. It'd be far too much of a stretch to take somebody like, say, Mega Man and try to recontextualize them in the SF/FF/RS shared world. How would we justify him being a robot, or having the powers he has? I was initially turning over some weird ideas in my head based on the old Street Fighter X Tekken artwork, but on reflection it's probably not worth the effort if the end result is something like Bad Box Art Mega Man, who was so removed from the character it might as well have been somebody else. And while I did say earlier that it might be interesting to tie Strider Hiryu back to Zeku in SFV, again, there's always the risk that the end result might not be the character people know and love.

Granted, this is a fangame and we can do what we like, but I think even the most liberal-minded person would find it hard to accept how far back we'd bend to make it work.  We can't really fundamentally change who these characters are just to serve the setting, or we might as well just make an original game at this point.

I honestly think the best way to do it is the way something like Capcom vs SNK or KOF treats the characters outside of the main game setting. Think about Morrigan or Haohmaru being in CvS despite the game being mostly a Street Fighter/KoF-focused game, or the entirety of Team Another World in KoF XIV.  They're either fun bonus characters with no real story behind them, or they just happened to pop in from another world somehow and that's as much of an explanation as we get. Darkstalkers characters are easier to make work with the latter explanation, but we'd probably need to take the former explanation for something like Edward Falcon or (excuse me while I go to fantasy land for a minute) Pulsion from Tech Romancer.

Miru962, I appreciate these ideas, but I think I'm gonna have to push back on a lot of them for the above reasons I just stated. I also do dig the sprite edits you've done, but if we go the route that I think we should go, then it'd be better to just use the sprites that beximus used for Capcom Universe. Because at this point, between these two factors, why would we even call the game Capcom Fighting All-Stars? I still want the game to resemble what the original game concept was in some way, and I think me straying from that too far would actually be a worse move.

That said, I think there is still merit to updating the gameplay, story and presentation in some way. From what footage I've seen of the original arcade location tests, that game did not look fun at all and I don't blame audiences for turning on it :P. And I think there's better ways to have a more serious and grounded story for this without resorting to Shadow the Hedgehog-level 2000's edge, like nuclear fucking bombs. I know Basara-kun was looking for this to be a straight remake of the original, but there is some stuff we can update, surely?

Sit tight, y'all. When I next post here, it'll be an even longer and more rambling spiel about gameplay concerns, and possibly what engine I'd want to develop this in.

Steel Komodo

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#16  February 01, 2024, 04:18:06 pm
  • ***
  • I have no idea what I'm doing.
    • UK
Okay, I'm back. Sorry to keep you all hanging.

I wanna leave the roster alone for a minute, because that discussion's not really going anywhere for me. I wanna talk about some gameplay things I mentioned earlier, because I'd like to hear more input from y'all on them. I'll try and keep this truncated as much as I can since I know I tend to ramble a lot.
  • How do we feel about potentially having air combos? The original game didn't have them, and I'm leaning towards 'no', myself, but I'm kind of worried that the game will be a little boring if it doesn't have something. If I did, they'd probably be closer to something like Capcom vs The World or SHADES of Manhattan - not as over-the-top, very low-key and mostly combo filler.
  • I said right up top that we could use a CvS-style dodge or a V-Shift styled mechanic to approximate the Dramatic Counter. The truth is, though, I'm kind of stumped as to how to balance such a thing. Should we be spending meter to actually perform the counter hit? And what if not every character on our roster has animations for a dodge? Would it be better to just go for a Zero Counter-style thing instead?
  • Been pondering on the Dramatic Finish moves and how to balance them. My current idea is that you'd need three full bars of Super Gauge to perform them, the opponent has to be on low life and you'd need to perform a "break" move of some sort to get them to activate. Potentially we'd need to "prep" them the same way you prep Instant Kills in Guilty Gear, or maybe you can only activate them in the middle of a combo, like Killer Instinct's ultras.

Lemme know what y'all think. Also, which engine would y'all think was best to make this in? I'm still a little curious about IKEMEN, but I'd need to know how hard it would be to transition from developing in MUGEN to this. Would I need to learn any new coding things before going in? Will Fighter Factory still work for me? Or will I have to get some other development tools to do it?

SquidlyPoli1

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#17  February 01, 2024, 04:43:41 pm
  • **
  • Did I hear something about a scooby snack?
    • USA
    • squidlypoli1.neocities.org

  • Online
I don't think the air combos were an entirely weird idea since some other unorthodox capcom fighters had them (primarily rival schools) but I thought of them less like seanaltly air combos that are kinda just combo filler and more like a guilty gear dust move where you just pop the opponent up really high and start mashing buttons. I guess if you wanted to do some kind of weird "air combo" thing but didn't want to make the game super air-based there is the last impact from rage of the dragons which is... kinda like it but not really? It's more like a deadly rave type of thing where you have to input a sequence of buttons. Daniel's azufight plus characters have them. I don't know how useful it actually is in rotd itself.

Instant kills I did ramble a bit on, mainly the cinematic type of thing I did mention, but I would rather just have it be a proper finishing move instead of something you can just tease on the fly and sacrifice a full meter for whenever. I also feel like having it only be on match point rather than round 1 or whatever because it would feel like a more proper end to the match rather than a super abrupt fakeout, idk.

IKEMEN, or at least IKEMEN GO, should be easy to transition to since it does rely a lot on legacy mugen content. You can still code characters and stages with mugen's programming language, though I think cosmetics and some mechanical stuff use a different language called ZSS which is kinda like mugen's own but much more geared toward people familiar with more contemporary languages like C and python. Theres also a few game modes handled by lua like the kumite and boss rush modes but I have no idea how much of that would actually matter in the long run since we arent recreating everything about the original game in 2D.

Steel Komodo

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#18  February 02, 2024, 02:03:35 pm
  • ***
  • I have no idea what I'm doing.
    • UK
Yeah, it really does look like I'm not listening to what anyone's saying, huh? Sorry about that.

SquidlyPoli1 said, February 01, 2024, 04:43:41 pm
I don't think the air combos were an entirely weird idea since some other unorthodox capcom fighters had them (primarily rival schools) but I thought of them less like seanaltly air combos that are kinda just combo filler and more like a guilty gear dust move where you just pop the opponent up really high and start mashing buttons. I guess if you wanted to do some kind of weird "air combo" thing but didn't want to make the game super air-based there is the last impact from rage of the dragons which is... kinda like it but not really? It's more like a deadly rave type of thing where you have to input a sequence of buttons. Daniel's azufight plus characters have them. I don't know how useful it actually is in rotd itself.

Honestly, I think the Rival Schools comparison is on point. Again, the main complaint I've heard about the original CFAS is that it didn't feel like a Capcom game - it played like weird, janky KoF or Tekken. I understand that it was developed by ex-SNK staff and they were going for something weird and different, but they went so weird and different it was a turn-off, and it's kind of amazing they didn't look at a similar game like Rival Schools, who's basic combo system was also unorthodox but still had that Capcom flavour to it.

I've seen Last Impact in RoTD also, and tbh I really dunno what purpose it serves. If it was something like a counter-attack, it would make sense, but it doesn't seem like what I'd wanna go for. I think I might try not going without air combos at first, and if people demand it I'll try and do it Rival Schools style. That seems most fitting.

SquidlyPoli1 said, February 01, 2024, 04:43:41 pm
Instant kills I did ramble a bit on, mainly the cinematic type of thing I did mention, but I would rather just have it be a proper finishing move instead of something you can just tease on the fly and sacrifice a full meter for whenever. I also feel like having it only be on match point rather than round 1 or whatever because it would feel like a more proper end to the match rather than a super abrupt fakeout, idk.

I understand what you're saying here, but I think I have to disagree. I don't think I'm particularly fond of finishing moves being done MK-style, where it's literally just the thing you do after you've already won. I think it's more interesting to have finishing moves be something you work for as part of gameplay, because it feels more like a reward for playing well. MK's fatalities, gore content aside, feel more like an obligation than anything else. The original CFAS did it that way, too, and I think I was always planning to change that.

You're definitely correct about them being a thing you should only do on the Match Point, though. That's a given - I wouldn't want people pulling them off with ease every match. I also agree, with hindsight, that spending an entire bar to use them would be super-detrimental. I'll think about it more when I actually start making my first character for this, but it's definitely an interesting dicussion.

Also, I am 100% not going to do those insane commands from the original game. Those things are the devil's work.

SquidlyPoli1 said, February 01, 2024, 04:43:41 pm
IKEMEN, or at least IKEMEN GO, should be easy to transition to since it does rely a lot on legacy mugen content. You can still code characters and stages with mugen's programming language, though I think cosmetics and some mechanical stuff use a different language called ZSS which is kinda like mugen's own but much more geared toward people familiar with more contemporary languages like C and python. Theres also a few game modes handled by lua like the kumite and boss rush modes but I have no idea how much of that would actually matter in the long run since we arent recreating everything about the original game in 2D.

Thanks a bunch for this. I'm primarily looking into IKEMEN for online play - I definitely would want to have people play this online. Not sure about things like tag or Boss Rush - in my head, there'd only be like one or two boss characters overall, so it'd hardly be worth utilizing, and tag mode wouldn't probably work with the systems I'm musing over.

Gonna start working on a base, I think, and then get a character on the boil for beta testing. It's probably the only way to test some of these features out. Also, I might post some mockups for logos/screenpack stuff in future as well. Watch this space.
Last Edit: February 02, 2024, 02:15:54 pm by Steel Komodo

SquidlyPoli1

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#19  February 04, 2024, 12:29:49 am
  • **
  • Did I hear something about a scooby snack?
    • USA
    • squidlypoli1.neocities.org

  • Online
When I said I wanted it to be a proper finishing move I didnt mean it in the way MK has it where its just extra flair after knocking your opponent out, I meant it more as in it becomes accessible when your opponents life is at a certain point (a quarter or fifth of full health) and you have a full meter to spare. That was really it, I thought there wouldve been more context clues given my other posts about it but I guess not.

The only thing I didnt really ramble on was the dramatic counter which I assume could just be replaced with a typical alpha counter/guard cancel blowback type of counterattack. I dont see the point of making it a v-shift type thing because v-shifts in particular make the character retreat and that may not be the greatest thing for when youre cornered and need a burst option.

Steel Komodo

Re: Recreating Capcom Fighting All-Stars - An Idea Thread
#20  February 04, 2024, 01:18:20 am
  • ***
  • I have no idea what I'm doing.
    • UK
Shit, my reading comprehenshion's real bad this week. Huge apologies on that front. Should have realized we were on the same page the whole time. Yeah, that does sound pretty good.

And yeah, an alpha counter might be the best way to go about it. Just call it Dramatic Counter instead and we're good lol.

While I'm talking about gameplay stuff, here's some more specific thoughts I've been having.
- If possible, I'd like to give characters certain traits that they had in more recent games. Ryu having his Denjin Renki, for instance, or Charlie having stuff from Street Fighter V. Come to think of it, his Critical Art from that game would make a good Dramatic Finish, wouldn't it?
- Did the original CFAS have EX moves? I can't seem to find anything that says it did. I would include them if it did, but if not then I guess that's another way we're updating the game for modern standards :P
- Giving thought to leveraging Ikemen's features, I would definitely want Avel and Akuma to be unlockable characters. Depending on how well the player does in the Arcade mode, they could also have the chance to face Shin Akuma or Death, my hypothetical final boss (essentially Avel but pissed off and on steroids).
- Here's a weird thought when it comes to roster. The original game had this darker, grittier tone, right? What if, instead of a traditional Mega Man character, we had Maverick Hunter X from that cancelled FPS Mega Man game? It wouldn't be that outlandish, in my opinion - that game was also going for a darker tone, so it would make sense to put them together in some way. Would need a lot of extensive spriting, though.
- Thinking about it, I might not go for air combos after all. I've playing the Rumble Fish recently, and it's given me confidence that you can make an interesting combo system without resorting to air combos like every MvC game and their dog. Obviously, I'd want to set in particular rules - only one pop-up/launcher, ground bounce and wall bounce per combo. But I think it can be done.
- Thinking I might use English voices for this one. Characters who didn't have English voice actors up until now (Batsu, Demitri (depending on if I don't swap him for Morrigan), all the four Code Holder OCs) will need new voice actors, obviously.
- That subtitle sucks. Might change it to either "Rise of the Code Holders" to be more clear about whom the protags of the game are, or "Countdown to Chaos" to tie in to the whole "stop the bomb" plot.

Still working on a template, btw. Keep eyes peeled.
Page 1 of 21 2 >  All   Go Up
« previous next »