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How do you solve the Corner Problem in Fighting Games? (Read 3657 times)

Started by JasonThePhoenix, December 01, 2024, 08:04:32 pm
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JasonThePhoenix

How do you solve the Corner Problem in Fighting Games?
#1  December 01, 2024, 08:04:32 pm
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I'm making a fighting game and players are behaving undesirably...

Left/right mixups and crossups are so potent in this game, being in the center of the screen is more of a disadvantage than being cornered!

Many players at the start of the round backdash into the corner ASAP to protect themselves from mixups and crossups! People prefer characters with a method to "steal the corner" from a cornered foe and successfully get behind them/move them closer over characters without that ability because the corner is TOO STRONG!

How do I fix this? I want space control to be a big deal in my game. Giving up ground and going closer to the corner should be something nobody wants to do willingly. Sure, I have a "Negative Penalty" mechanic like in Guilty Gear take meter from those who run away from their foe, but I still need more.

Duos.act

Re: How do you solve the Corner Problem in Fighting Games?
#2  December 02, 2024, 07:31:44 am
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Generally this problem is solved by the corner being a very dangerous place to be, because it opens up longer and more damaging combos or more threatening mixups because they can't backdash away from the attack.  Usually midscreen combos are shorter and less advantageous on knockdown, and midscreen mixups have more counterplay because there's more screen space to use.

Another thing to consider is that being at close range means the offending player has access to their fastest, safest and cancelable normals for more reward on hit or block.  They don't have to play the neutral game anymore.  In fighting games where running away is a powerful strategy it's usually not so that a player can get their back to the wall in the corner, but so that they have sufficient space to be safe from their opponent and be in range to use their pokes.
Last Edit: December 02, 2024, 07:34:47 am by Duos.act

JasonThePhoenix

Re: How do you solve the Corner Problem in Fighting Games?
#3  January 04, 2025, 04:23:28 pm
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Duos.act said, December 02, 2024, 07:31:44 am
Generally this problem is solved by the corner being a very dangerous place to be, because it opens up longer and more damaging combos or more threatening mixups because they can't backdash away from the attack.  Usually midscreen combos are shorter and less advantageous on knockdown, and midscreen mixups have more counterplay because there's more screen space to use.

Another thing to consider is that being at close range means the offending player has access to their fastest, safest and cancelable normals for more reward on hit or block.  They don't have to play the neutral game anymore.  In fighting games where running away is a powerful strategy it's usually not so that a player can get their back to the wall in the corner, but so that they have sufficient space to be safe from their opponent and be in range to use their pokes.

In my game I designed combos to be short and being cornered doesn't add anything good to the combos. Maybe I should add a wallbounce or wallsplat against cornered foes hit with the downward launcher or divekick to extend the combo further.

Also in my game backdashes are invincible even if they're in the corner. I could probably add code to disable backdashes in the corner or add a wallsplat to punish anyone who backdashes in the corner or gets pushblocked into the corner. But that might be too much.

Duos.act

Re: How do you solve the Corner Problem in Fighting Games?
#4  January 04, 2025, 06:23:28 pm
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You don't need to do anything too drastic to your backdashes, because they are already usually risky in the corner just by virtue of having less distance between the opponent.

An invincible backdash is a strong defensive tool only when the invincibility goes through all the active frames of the opponent's attack, and the opponent is not able to punish the recovery frames.

I'll try to give a generic example.  Character A knocks down Character B in the corner.  Character A does a meaty, Character B backdashes.  What happens next depends on the active frames of the move used as a meaty and the invincibility frames on the backdash.
-If the backdash stops being invincible before the meaty stops being active, Character B gets hit.
-If the backdash is invincible for long enough to protect Character B from the meaty, they probably get some sort of punish.
-If the meaty recovers quickly enough for Character A to punish the backdash, Character B gets hit.
Just a few examples. 

This is how developers create nuanced character design by accounting for unique options across characters.  A character with very strong neutral and offense might have a backdash with only brief invincibility to compensate.  A character with no reversal attacks or a grappler who capitalizes on heavy reads might have a particularly invincible backdash.  A character who is defined by slippery movement might have a backdash with weak invincibility but very fast startup or recovery or long distance so that they can move around the screen more quickly.

A good point of reference would be the Guilty Gear series where backdash frame data is a key part of character design and what defines a specific character's strengths and weaknesses, as well as what setups work on them.
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