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Jill Valentine (Resident Evil) (Read 56487 times)

Started by Sean Altly, January 14, 2013, 08:47:57 pm
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Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#1  January 14, 2013, 08:47:57 pm
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So I've started coding Jill so that the next update will have an even amount of main roster Capcom and The World characters (this doesn't count Cactuar and EX CM Punk).

I want to really differentiate my Jill from the other ones out there, and attempt to address the many complaints I've sometimes heard about her. I also have some plans for one or two other characters that are/would be helper-heavy like Jill, so I wanted to remove most of her reliance on helpers and make her more of a projectile character (like Chris from RE5, since he won't be in this game). I'm also doing this because I would still like to include the striker system in the game down the road.

I would like some opinions and REALISTIC suggestions (as in nothing that would require brand new animations done 100% by me, since the time I'm alotting myself for sprites right now is going towards Jango's Mario commission). Some stuff that might require some edits may be feasible.

I have worked out TWO movesets for her: one incorporates Barry into her moveset as the only helper she would have (like I said, I'm removing MOST of her reliance on helpers, not all), and one doesn't.

MOVESET 1 (w/Barry)

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

MOVESET 2 (w/o Barry)

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

***So Where's the Tyrant Super?***

I'm not going to use it here. I've decided that even if she has a few Barry helper attacks, I'd still like to remove all of her zombie/BOW related helpers. I don't have a problem with Jill's gameplay or design in MVC2. I'm not going to complain that it's unrealistic or silly that she "summons" monsters. I've just decided that this is how I want to differentiate my version.

***Did you consider MVC3 Jill?***

Nope, because I hate that version of Jill.

So, this is what I have planned. If I don't use the Barry moveset, I could have her coded in a week. The Barry set needs sprites (not a ton, just 3 or 4 animations, plus some gethits so he can be knocked away), but it would probably be cooler in the long run. We'll just have to see. Opinions and suggestions are welcome.     

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Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 10:23:38 pm by Sean Altly
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#2  January 14, 2013, 09:23:48 pm
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I like the dodge idea better for her. Your Jill sandwich idea sounds great but not sure if a counter super is too reliable..
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#3  January 14, 2013, 09:34:42 pm
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Barry-less moveset sounds better IMO, despite the fact that Barry is BARRY BURTON.

-Knife vs Shoulder Charge: Having both does seem a bit redundant, but If I had to pick one, I'd go with the Charge. Knives aren't particularly associated with Jill, IMO. If it were Chris or Leon a knife move would make more sense, I think.
Acid rounds: They don't really have any special properties in-game either, so you might want to replace them with freeze rounds or something. Jill was the first one to use them, after all!
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#4  January 14, 2013, 09:38:59 pm
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I'll say the one with Barry would be more appealing to fanservice, but neither specials involving him are game-changing enough to warrant his inclusion. That said I'd go with but some things could be changed around. Right now she'll end up playing very similar to Snake if she didn't have Barry also though...hm. I'd also argue that her supers are pretty run-of-the-mill. Not very unique functioning supers to say the least.

As far as the acid rounds go. I'd be creative. Like say it was a ground only move that does no damage but causes a crumple-to-knockdown state to activate. Think a distance version of Yoshimitsu's poison breath.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#5  January 14, 2013, 09:41:38 pm
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Not all Supers have to be insanely creative. I'm also working with what Capcom made already. If Hyper Shoulder Charges, Rocket Launchers, and Ammo Unloads (like Chris') are good enough for Capcom, they're good enough for me. I want mine to be different but I'm not looking to revolutionize or reinvent the character. Long-range attack supers, a counter super (on one moveset), and projectile supers. How much more unique functioning do they need to be?

@JMM

I'd like to keep the Knife attacks because I like the animations, and it's something totally new. The Freeze Rounds are a good idea though, didn't really think of those. When did they first appear? RE3? Or REMake?

      Posted: January 14, 2013, 09:48:58 pm
Forgot to include in the first post, but I was also going to add a move using her "diving to the ground" animation (seen in her Tyrant super) as a dodge move. She'd hit the ground quickly and stay there until you release the button. She'd be very low to the ground, so it'd be a good way to avoid projectile supers altogether. Or would that be a useful enough UT?

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Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 09:49:20 pm by Sean Altly
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#6  January 14, 2013, 09:52:13 pm
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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#7  January 14, 2013, 09:53:29 pm
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They look better in-game.

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#8  January 14, 2013, 10:06:07 pm
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I'm really liking your custom moveset for her. I would have reccomended the freeze round grenades myself, had I been here earlier. :P It is one of the things that was unique to Jill, being they were first introduced in RE3. That'd be awesome if you implemented them into your Jill. The diving low to the ground move sounds nice as UT. Something like that could definitely come in handy. Just like Chris' lying down special in MvC3. I do agree that knife combat is more Chris/Leon's area, but, it's not like it doesn't fit Jill at all. The edits look nice and it's an original take on her I like very much. Also, having Barry as a helper, BEST IDEA EVER.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#9  January 14, 2013, 10:21:03 pm
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Well, I guess I'm just attached to the animations, plus I've already coded all parts of the series, and it looks nice in game. We'll see, I didn't personally make the sprites so if I get her coded and it doesn't fit her well, I can ditch it and it won't be a ton of wasted work or anything.

Definitely going to incorporate the freeze rounds though.

     Posted: January 14, 2013, 10:30:44 pm
Made this real quick, to show how the Knife Attacks would look/work in-game. Just a preview to see if you guys like it or if you think I should drop it. If I decide to drop it as a special, I may at least use the first Knife Attack animation as a command normal.


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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#10  January 14, 2013, 10:48:47 pm
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I like it. You're right, it does look better in game with the slash FX to accompany it and all. Also, it's nothing over the top or unbeffiting of her. Yes, Chris/Leon are more skilled with a knife than Jill is, but it's not like Jill doesn't have some skill with it herself. I vote you keep it. Looks great.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#11  January 14, 2013, 10:50:54 pm
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Keep it. It looks good, but a few retouches could be done, but that's my opinion.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#12  January 14, 2013, 11:48:54 pm
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I think the knife moves should stay. They look awesome, as well as practical.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#13  January 14, 2013, 11:54:19 pm
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Still don't like the look of it, especially the first slash:it doesn't look much like Jill is slashing to me. :-\
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#14  January 15, 2013, 12:03:05 am
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Looks mad safe, but I'm sure it won't be that bad
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#15  January 15, 2013, 12:10:25 am
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Why don't you simply make her knife moves part of her UT and give her a knife stance? I imagine that the playstyle you're going for is going to be a lot more like your Snake.

That way UT + A/X = weak slash, UT + B/Y = Strong or something like that

Like Snake's C4, you may want to consider some explosive traps as well
Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 12:14:11 am by C-G-U
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#16  January 15, 2013, 01:24:20 am
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Sounds unnecessary and overly complicated IMO
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#17  January 15, 2013, 01:28:08 am
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The 3rd hit of the knife slash move is way too safe. The "bounce back" limits her opponents' punishment options.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#18  January 15, 2013, 01:32:40 am
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Like Snake's C4, you may want to consider some explosive traps as well
Now you're actually trying to make her a full-on Snake clone which is completely unnecessary.

The triple knife attack is something I could see being her one tool against powerhouses like Mr. X. Fast, with good priority (no hurtbox on the knife slash), able to grind on the super armor quickly. Although making it a good evasion move on top of that could be too much, the dive down would be preferable. Although it would need to be made not useless against stomps and the likes, or she would need another evade move.
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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#19  January 15, 2013, 01:50:41 am
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Merely suggesting the idea, though I think I mistook the idea with Gears of Wars grenade that can be used as trip-explosives by mistake.

Hmm, what if her UT was an inventory slot that pops up above her screen, that allows certain items used based on corresponding button presses, and each one draining a chunk of her bar in the process. Allowing access to maybe 1 healing spray, ammo types, maybe grenades. Something as simple as her rocket launcher perhaps? Just brainstorming.

As for the knife attacks will they have to be input in succession like Rekkaken style attacks?
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#20  January 15, 2013, 02:03:05 am
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Still don't like the look of it, especially the first slash:it doesn't look much like Jill is slashing to me. :-\

Eh, I think it looks fine.

Why don't you simply make her knife moves part of her UT and give her a knife stance? I imagine that the playstyle you're going for is going to be a lot more like your Snake.

That way UT + A/X = weak slash, UT + B/Y = Strong or something like that

Like Snake's C4, you may want to consider some explosive traps as well

As far as a knife stance goes, that would require a lot more knife attacks, which is a lot more sprites. I probably won't get that far into it.

Hmm, what if her UT was an inventory slot that pops up above her screen, that allows certain items used based on corresponding button presses, and each one draining a chunk of her bar in the process. Allowing access to maybe 1 healing spray, ammo types, maybe grenades. Something as simple as her rocket launcher perhaps? Just brainstorming.

As for the knife attacks will they have to be input in succession like Rekkaken style attacks?

Not looking for anything as complicated as that for her UT.

The attacks are performed in succession like a Rekkaken, but you can do the finishing attacks (Valentine Special and Receding Slash) after the first OR second slash. The Receding Slash IS pretty safe, but that's the point. It's to get her out of danger if she misses the first attacks. It doesn't do much damage, doesn't knock down, and is only really safe if you're not anywhere near the corner. The grab move (Valentine Special) is blockable and has a lot of recovery if it whiffs (which I forgot to show in the video). I could remove the Receding Slash, but I wanted to have two distinct ways to finish the chain.

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#21  January 15, 2013, 02:27:41 am
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I was just thinking if you wanted to differentiate her about the knife stance behaving like that KOF Leon released a while ago, but the rekka commands also work. If you do give her a dodge roll as her UT, what if you make it so it has knock back, so it's almost like a tackle/dodge

Will the knife slashes be cancellable into EX versions too?
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#22  January 15, 2013, 04:08:33 am
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could probably use the herbs for healing..one herb heals and one gives power..just an idea
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#23  January 15, 2013, 12:01:43 pm
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the Blue one could give back power,since she wont be getting poisoned in mugen i guess
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#24  January 18, 2013, 10:14:27 pm
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Well, I had this idea for her UT. I noticed that since I wasn't using her helpers, that's a lot of unused sprites for her dodging them as they come on screen. So, instead of just a single stationary dodge, I was thinking her UT would be called "Evasive Maneuvers."

Pressing the UT button alone would do the standard dodge. Pressing U+UT would make her do the hop she normally does to avoid the dog (she could use this for low projectiles or attacks). Pressing UF+UT or UB+UT would be moving versions of that. Pressing D+UT would be the crouch she uses to avoid the crows. It could be used for certain attacks and projectiles. Pressing D,D+UT would do the one where she drops all the way onto her stomach. That one would be even safer for dodging projectiles, but would have more recovery since she needs to get up off the ground. Also, holding down the button keeps her lying there, and she won't get up until you release it.

I considered a roll to be used with F+UT or B+UT, but that seemed like a bit much (and it would kind of take away from CM Punk's UT). Maybe I could make them dashes instead, and she'd be the only character with dashes AND a run. A crawl would be cool too, but that would require some spriting/editing, which I can't do right now. What do you guys think of this idea so far?

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#25  January 18, 2013, 10:22:03 pm
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I don't think she would need F/B+UT with all the dodges she has, IMO.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#26  January 18, 2013, 10:27:15 pm
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Well, that's why I said I thought it might be a bit much. I can just use the U/D ones.

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#27  January 18, 2013, 10:30:32 pm
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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#28  January 18, 2013, 10:48:05 pm
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A dash is fine depending on her final moveset. If it's still a projectile-fest then no.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#29  January 18, 2013, 11:24:02 pm
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Maybe while she's on her stomach she could shoot like Chris?
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#30  January 19, 2013, 12:53:25 am
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I would have said incorporating the classic RE quick turn mechanic would have been an interesting ability, but, aside from running away, I couldn't think of other uses for it, but it may be a building block for something.

If you did do the dodge mechanic, that would be cool, or maybe just make it a grenade type change button, which would allow all the standard types from the games, flashbangs, incendiary and explosive (maybe a shock version too?)
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#31  January 19, 2013, 04:42:01 am
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Well, that's why I said I thought it might be a bit much. I can just use the U/D ones.
I meant the one with the dashes and/or crawl.

I know, that's what I said, I can just use the ones that use the Up/Down buttons (hop, duck, lay down), and not use the F/B ones (rolls or dashes).

Maybe while she's on her stomach she could shoot like Chris?

Would need sprites, I think I'm just going to stick to the dodges right now and not really worry about crawling or shooting.

A dash is fine depending on her final moveset. If it's still a projectile-fest then no.

Well, I made it clear in the first post she would probably be a projectile heavy character like Chris in MVC3, no matter which moveset I went with.

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#32  January 19, 2013, 11:25:03 pm
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Why don't you make both versions of Jill and let people use either one they want in their copy of CvTW?
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#33  January 19, 2013, 11:28:50 pm
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That might work.  The World side has two EX characters and the Capcom has none.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#34  January 19, 2013, 11:36:26 pm
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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#35  January 19, 2013, 11:38:45 pm
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Had there been sprites to accomodate it I would say yes, like if there were sprites for the MVC3 version, in this case I don't think so. Jin at least will have a whole new sprite set, and CM Punk already does. If there was more of a Ryu / Evil Ryu that may more sense, but I don't think it's necessary myself.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#36  January 19, 2013, 11:50:27 pm
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The KOF games don't use any sprites or palettes to differentiate the EX versions.  At best you'll get a different stance.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#37  January 20, 2013, 12:02:11 am
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I just meant in relation to the existing characters, but I know what you mean like all the various incarnations of Kyo.  So are you looking for a more traditional MVC2 style Jill and this new CvtW version? Just curious as to what an EX version of her could possibly be needed for.
Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 12:15:09 am by C-G-U
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#38  January 20, 2013, 04:14:13 am
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Yeah, an MVC2-style EX Jill isn't a bad idea. Just depends on how much work it would be and if I have time for it.

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#39  January 20, 2013, 04:29:48 am
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Commands would be easily adaptable too, since MVC2 was originally a 4 button game anyhow, her special action can be that push guard or something. Only difference would be that she would have EX moves now
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#40  January 20, 2013, 05:20:48 pm
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Jill move set without Barry is nice because a Jill without the helpers would be orginal an diferent than the other Jills in mugen.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#41  January 21, 2013, 01:56:42 am
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I'd go with the Barry moveset, but replace Burton Charge with the Shoulder Charge as the RDP+K.  Don't want her to rely on Barry too much.  Also, add in Hyper Shoulder Charge as a RDP+S LvL 1 super, giving her three LvL 1 supers.  Of course, this is all my opinion.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#42  January 21, 2013, 02:06:55 am
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If Barry was used at all, I'd also consider maybe a counter move for Jill, where if hit, she would go into a fall/crouch animation, after which Barry would essentially come in for backup purposes to help Jill out by shooting at the opponent. Personally I think she's fine without helpers, leave those for a possible EX version as mentioned in the previous posts, imo.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#43  January 23, 2013, 08:18:37 am
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Well, I decided on the non-Barry moveset, but she'll still get a Barry striker once that system is implemented. The moveset I've decided on is this:

UNIQUE TACTIC:

-Evasive Maneuvers - S Button
    -Alpha (Short Hop) - S Button
    -Bravo (Stationary Dodge) - B+S
    -Charlie (Short forward dash) - F+S
    -Delta (Quick Duck) - D+S
    -Echo (Lay down) - DB+S, Hold D Button to stay on ground, release to get up

SPECIAL MOVES:

-Knife Slash Alpha - QCB+P
   Custom knife slash attack, based on an animation I found.

-Knife Slash Bravo - F+P during Knife Slash Alpha
   Follow up slash. Moves farther than the first slash but has more recovery.

-Valentine Special - QCF+P during Knife Slash Alpha or Bravo
   Jill hops forward with her hand stratched out for a blockable grab. If she connects, she performs her Knife Slash throw from MVC2. Decent range, high damage, but long recovery if she misses.

-Receding Slash - QCB+P during Knife Slash Alpha or Bravo
    Does a backwards moving slash to make missing more safe. Basically the Knife Slash throw animation without the throw part.

-Charging S.T.A.R.S. - QCF+P
    Her MVC2 Shoulder Charge. More range and speed than the Knife Slash attacks, but less damage.

-Grenade Launcher - DP+P or K
   Her MVC2 Grenade Launcher. LP or LK is a lower angled shot, HP or HK is a higher-angled anti-air shot. LP/HP are Explosive Rounds, and LK/HK will be Freeze Rounds (since Jill was the first to use them in RE3). Freeze rounds do very little damage, but freeze the opponent.

-Rescue Flare - RDP+P
   Puts down her rescue flare (from her win pose, which won't be used here). Faster anti-air than the Grenade Launcher, but less damage, and the flare travels vertically.

-Return Fire - HCB+K, then P
   Her counter move from MVC2. Pressing P several times after the counter is successful fires her handgun.

-Shotgun Blast - QCF+K
   Uses a shotgun, obviously. I would modify her lower-angled Grenade Launcher animation for this. High damage, long recovery.

SUPER MOVES:

Level 1 - Hyper Charging S.T.A.R.S. - QCF+S
   Pretty much the same as in MVC2.

Level 1 - Arsenal - QCB+S
   Kind of like Chris' L1 from MVC3. Starts with a freeze grenade, then a few handgun shots, then a shotgun blast, then an incendiary grenade, and finally a shot from Barry's hand-cannon (that she has acquired of course).

Level 3 - Rocket Launcher - DP+S
   Fires all 4 shots from the Rocket Launcher.

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#44  January 23, 2013, 08:55:19 am
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Hmm, part of me almost says to switch Arsenal with Rocket Launcher, but I think it's fine as is either way. I am interested to see how this evasive maneuver UT works in game. Overall I like this fresh take on her, she definitely seems like she'll be an interesting character to play. I will say though, why also have a "quick duck" when you can crouch? it may help simplify things without it.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#45  January 23, 2013, 09:34:51 am
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The Quick Duck is like crouching with a frame of invincibility thrown in. At least that's how I have it working now.

I'm doing some in-game testing of her right now, and I am starting to think the Knife Attacks aren't very useful when she has Charginhg STARS, at least not enough to justify a special move for them. Maybe I'll make the first two slashes command moves, like a target combo, and do something else with Valentine Special (the hop into the knife slash throw).

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#46  January 23, 2013, 10:09:56 am
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but she'll still get a Barry striker once that system is implemented.
Something I'm not getting is, the striker system will work the same as KoF I presume, meaning you chose your striker among the playable characters ? Will Barry be a special case like the secret strikers in KoF 2000, where you get him if you select Jill as a striker, but choosing anyone else gives you that character as a striker ? Or will each character have their own dedicated striker ?
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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#47  January 23, 2013, 03:24:54 pm
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That would probably be a better idea I guess, unless you retained charging stars as a move for the possible EX version and gave her the knife instead, but I think your idea makes more sense. The other thing it could possibly be is a follow-up attack, would it work and look alright as a follow-up command to charging stars?
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#48  January 23, 2013, 05:22:26 pm
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Each character has their own dedicated Striker. There's a thread about who is getting who as a striker, but it's been inactive so it fell to the second page. Check it out here.

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#49  January 24, 2013, 01:06:33 am
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^in relation to that, I didn't want to necrobump it, but who is going to be Gouken's striker? Only possibility I can think of would be Akuma since Ken and Ryu are already in.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#50  January 24, 2013, 03:24:46 am
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why not shen long?
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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#51  January 24, 2013, 03:35:57 am
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^in relation to that, I didn't want to necrobump it, but who is going to be Gouken's striker? Only possibility I can think of would be Akuma since Ken and Ryu are already in.

You can bump it, I talked about necrobumping in the FAG thread. It's a full-game board, so it's fine. I'm actually considering dropping Gouken, because there are too many Sf reps and I really want to include Birdie and/or Dudley later. I'm considering replacing him with someone from MVC2, like Captain Commando, Hayato, Strider, etc. The sprites are there and it would increase franchise representation. The only draw back was that Gouken was new(ish).

why not shen long?

Because Sheng Long isn't an actual character. If I decide to leave Gouken in, I'm considering Retsu or Akuma as his striker.

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#52  January 24, 2013, 03:56:08 am
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^That would make sense, if anything he can be an extra character you can make after your main roster is completed. If you haven't started any work on him either then it's also not a big worry, I'd say keep him in consideration if you ever feel like it. I like how you've maintained 1 rep from each game (aside from Ken and Ryu being from SF1), it works, and if you do Birdie then you have a rep for the Alpha saga, and C. Viper for 4 so I think it'll be fine.
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#53  January 24, 2013, 03:59:07 am
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Well, Charlie is an Alpha rep already. I just figure adding Birdie satisfies me because he's a favorite, and adds another grappler to the game.

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#54  January 24, 2013, 04:05:42 am
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^forgot about him, that's a good point though, and I think having 2 shoto's is fine, the rest of the characters you've gone with seem good, this does mean however you will have 3 grapplers on Capcom's side being Haggar, Birdie and Alex, as well as 3 on The World side being CM Punk, CM Punk EX and Tizoc.

Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#55  January 24, 2013, 04:11:29 am
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Don't count EX Punk, I'm also doing John Cena down the line. He'll be DLC like Birdie.

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Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#56  January 24, 2013, 05:03:29 am
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I look forward to it, I'll probably be donating something, down the road, towards his completion then
Re: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
#57  February 05, 2013, 12:02:49 am
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Finished up her palette set, I'll be uploading the .act files to my mediafire soon, is her name just going to be CvtWJill? I can update my palette patch folder in the process if that's the case too.

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