New Graphic Novel cover to critic... i'm getting better... really =S

[JustNoPoint]

http://www.justnopoint.com/Stuff/Devon/betacover0032.jpg

Still in beta for this Graphic Novel cover that will contain all issues of my Prologue. I want it to look really good and aesthetically pleasing. At least the best within my limited abilities to draw =p

So, if someone is wanting tough love this is a good place to get it. I won't give excuses so tear into it. I'll try to fix most things unless a) I don't agree for whatever reason or b) this is taking too many days/weeks to "fix". At a certain point it has to be good enough and I'll at least see where I need to keep improving. Not like I don't already know... mostly the same spots anatomy, proportions, hands and feet. But I do think it's decent now at least...

So, since it's still in early beta/pencil stages tear into it if you do not mind

Thanks for any time and support given!

[Metroid Budgie]

I can see Saturn in the background, so I'm guessing that means they're in space. Are the two main characters standing on a spaceship without wearing a space suit? How are they breathing? Or are they inside a space station and you can see Saturn in the window?

[JustNoPoint]

Collage licensing =p

They are standing on a "V" not to be confused with .V. however. I hope Rolento doesn't sue me!
They will be the stand out image on the page. Possibly with a thick white border around them or with a color overlying the characters in the back drop.
Basically, in a cover characters don't have to adhere to rules as in the comic. They are in their space suits on the back of the book where I'll put them in front of the Big Bad's Mother Ship, a shot of Atlantis, and the alien base the bad guys came to Earth to get.

This cover is to sum up 6 comic books that I made. It will contain them all. So I wanted to add a bit from each book. At least the most important aspects without over clutter and giving a nice sense of movement. Earth will be in the bottom left of the cover a lot closer than Saturn.

I hope that explains the lack of their armor in the front page Thanks for mentioning that! If it had been a canon page of the comic and they were in space with no suit they probably wouldn't be smiling much

[walt]

So, this time around it looks like you finally know what you're doing.

Everything approved but faces (eyes mostly) and HUEG MAN FEET on female characters.
Look at Marvel comics to get more sylized feet, specially the old stuff, not this new age anime like garbage.

[JustNoPoint]

I didn't notice this last reply.

@ eyes... hmmm, I actually liked these eyes a lot XD Especially compared to old, maybe I need to stylize them even more. I stylized them more since my old work. I can never figure out exactly what kind of eyes I want to have. Realistic, anime, US, etc... unless I specifically say "This character will have x kind of styled eyeball."

As for the feet. Man, I just can't seem to get better at them. I guess I'm still looking at too much Street Fighter and Darkstalkers artwork. They are actually a LOT smaller than before XD

Thanks for the feedback. Nice to know you think I'm improving. I'll try to do something with the eyes. I'm not really sure yet... I guess imitate different eyes I see in artworks and slap them on the characters till I find a fit and steal em

As for feet, more practice needed!

Also the background was totally replaced, still working on it but now I'm going for one of those collages of character in a circle like Street Fighter and Darkstalkers has done on occasions.

http://www.justnopoint.com/Stuff/Devon/betacover0032.jpg

I'll go back in and tweak the inks on the feet and some of the eyes here.

[JustNoPoint]

Updated inks on all characters.
http://www.justnopoint.com/Stuff/Devon/betacover0032.jpg
I turned the inks of the ball of characters into a lighter blue so it wouldn't just look like a ball of lines atm =p

Updated armor Sally's eyes a bit and tweaked the feet on the armored girls. Still not good feet but at least they are smaller :3 I hope the inks helped the eyes. Still going to start tracing eyes in different styles for a bit to get my muscle memory to kick in better.

[walt]

ASSymetry

[JustNoPoint]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF I didn't mirror that one!  

EDIT:
Updated image. Corrected 4 heads. Will be able to correct them a tad more in photoshop too, yay warp...

I hate my horrible right hand skew. It's especially horrid on circles. I have to constantly remember to mirror my images and check for this. Hooray for being out of practice doing that =p It's crazy how it's so hard to see this until you mirror it (as the artist).

Thanks

[JustNoPoint]

http://www.justnopoint.com/Stuff/Devon/betacover0032.jpg

Flats and most everything completed aside of shading.

[kakkoii superhero]

hmm the overlayed square masking on top of the picture which change the color in the major part of the illustration, but then on the edges there are parts in their original color, and those parts are too minor (like the tip of the alien head) so it looked weird.

what if it made in continuous line from front cover all the way to back cover instead of divide it into 3 squares

[JustNoPoint]

That square is just to indicate the pages so you can see the front cover, back, and spine easier. It won't be in the actual cover
It indicates the live area. The trim and the bleed.

[kakkoii superhero]

so only the dark blue squares in the final result? but then the bottom of your title text would be cut if placed like that??

the costumes are nice especially the girl with ponytail
ahha I just saw that you make all the aliens have 6 fingers

I think the white lining is a bit too thick, the blunt ends of the hair ends looked too bold maybe would be better if it retain the sharp ends there too.

and maybe if the eyes can be more alive, with some glow/ reflection on their irises?

[JustNoPoint]

so only the dark blue squares in the final result? but then the bottom of your title text would be cut if placed like that??

Nah. Most, if not all the yellow will be in the final product. There is a possibility some of it will be clipped. That's what the live area is for. You are guaranteed everything there will be safe. In the covers I've made thus far it rarely cuts much more than the bleed.

the costumes are nice especially the girl with ponytail
ahha I just saw that you make all the aliens have 6 fingers

I get a lot of positive feedback about Fenny's armor (the girl with the ponytail) Almost makes me sad she won't get to use it much anymore.
And everyone likes the 6 fingers when they notice it heh I see that reaction a lot. A 6th finger is really tough to draw. Especially when I still have issues with a regular 5 fingered hand =p

I think the white lining is a bit too thick, the blunt ends of the hair ends looked too bold maybe would be better if it retain the sharp ends there too.

I can thin it up a bit, no problem! And make the ends sharper.

and maybe if the eyes can be more alive, with some glow/ reflection on their irises?

They will. This isn't finished yet That's a part of the "shading" process. ATM this is just flats. Thank you very much for the feedback.

[Loona]

Only noticed this now, I hope it's not too late.

It's been a while since I last caught up on reading the comic, so some comments might reflect that.

- I'd trim the extra sentences in the back cover for brevity, since they're just meant to stimulate some interest - I'd simply use something like "Explosive pages" and "What 80's toons wish they were" - maybe even only have one of those instead of 3; people look at the back cover to find what the comic's all about before checking some pages (if the back cover interests them enough), at which point they'll see if the comic looks explosive or not to them (so I'd personally drop that part); too many sentences there and you look like you're trying too hard, while the comic's merits should speak for themselves with the introductory info in the back and a glance at random pages.

- also, no real need to have those diagonal, as long as they're distant enough from the general description to stand out as something different;

- Fenny and Sally will look broken by the spine, whether you're looking at the spine or the back of the book, not to mention the little hand and knee in the corner of the front cover; Fenny looks remarkably panicked considering the story (and description in the back cover - I'd try to tone that down there) clearly marks her as an overachiever (or Canon Sue, if you go by TV Tropes lingo)

- the "V" in the front cover almost makes the word "Devon" hard to read, I'd consider increasing the size of the other letters - especially since they're smaller than the word "prologue" by the bottom of the page.

- I like how in the cover the front characters stand out by coloring them differently, but the effect would be best improved by using thinner outlines for the background characters, rather than by using a white one around those in the front - which makes them look pasted in the cover instead of belonging there as the protagonists they are

- if you're including the whole sentence "created by Keith Taylor" sentence in the cover, I'd recommend not using handwriting thee, a smaller font (it rivals the comic's actual title and you're not famous enough yet, so the work must speak for itself) or both. Handwriting seems fine in an early introductory page or the actual comic or in the back cover IMO.

- instead of having one part of the cover say "the entire collection issues 1-6" and the other "prologue" ("is it the whole thing or just the prologue?"), consider dropping the top corner bit and tweaking the "prologue" part to say something like "full prologue"

- the guy behind Fenny (whom I remember best for being your avatar for a while, only wearing a mask), has an odd grin and look in his eyes that make it look like he's on drugs or something. Maybe I'm just too used to seeing the mask, but his eyes look oddly fucsed somewhere and unfocused at the same time, and that draws some attention that Fenny and Sally should probably be getting instead. Maybe there's a way to tweak this is the outlines' thickness gets tweaked...

- also a background character, the lips on the girl in the bottom left corner just look so thick... I don't recall her role in the story, so I don't remember if they always look that thick;the girl to her right has a bit of a disturbing-looking smile, but that kinda helped emphasize her role in the actual story, so that fits...

- it's probably set in stone in the story and won't change, but it feels terribly odd how in the back cover Fenny's suit's color patterns bring "civilian" summer clothing to mind (not to mention the ponytail compartment in her helmet), but Sally is actually wearing summer clothing on top of her space suit...

- there's something odd about the background color/patterns, but I can't quite put my finger on it, no actual design studies to acknowledge that and know how to fix it...


This is just for the description in the back:

- I see no need to fully capitalize the characters' names in the introduction to the story.

- starts with praising of Fenny (see Canon Sue comment from earlier), then uses the verb "abduct" applied to people that want her help, almost making the other Grands (the constant use of the word "Grand" for races and caracter names in the comic always felt a bit odd for me - then again, this is the same comic where in a pocket dimension people always use full names in casual conversation) look like they're the ones trying to do something helpful; replacing the term "abduction" for something else might help keep things on track.

- "ancient weapon" should be fine as a term - if they're bothering to come from space to get it, we get it it's a big deal and must be powerful

- then the 2nd paragraph mentions Sally's help, but not if she was abducted too...


This probably felt more annoying that it needed to compared to previous posts, so sorry about that.

Since I only noticed this today, maybe othersmissed it too - I think I'll send Iced a link to this, since he's more of a recurring comic guy than I am.

[JustNoPoint]

Gohan replies for the win (without the racism)

Spoiler (click to show)

Only noticed this now, I hope it's not too late.

Better late than never XD Some will be a bit too late at this stage. But some things I'll go ahead and redraw completely just because I really want this cover to be good. I won't redraw large pieces though at this point of course.=p

- I'd trim the extra sentences in the back cover for brevity, since they're just meant to stimulate some interest - I'd simply use something like "Explosive pages" and "What 80's toons wish they were" - maybe even only have one of those instead of 3; people look at the back cover to find what the comic's all about before checking some pages (if the back cover interests them enough), at which point they'll see if the comic looks explosive or not to them (so I'd personally drop that part); too many sentences there and you look like you're trying too hard, while the comic's merits should speak for themselves with the introductory info in the back and a glance at random pages.

I'll just leave the 80's line then. I wish that blog that reviewed my comic was still around to give credit for it.

- also, no real need to have those diagonal, as long as they're distant enough from the general description to stand out as something different;

Noted - will change

- Fenny and Sally will look broken by the spine, whether you're looking at the spine or the back of the book, not to mention the little hand and knee in the corner of the front cover; Fenny looks remarkably panicked considering the story (and description in the back cover - I'd try to tone that down there) clearly marks her as an overachiever (or Canon Sue, if you go by TV Tropes lingo)

I'll draw a new spine specific only picture here then. I like wrap around covers and my original idea was to have all the aliens and Fenny and Sally falling along the background in space from the front to the back of the book. That's why they have the kinda shocked look. But I scrapped that layout. I liked these pictures so I kept them.
But you're right. I should redo it.

Should they be in armor or not? Should it be both? Just 1? An alien instead?

- the "V" in the front cover almost makes the word "Devon" hard to read, I'd consider increasing the size of the other letters - especially since they're smaller than the word "prologue" by the bottom of the page.

I'll see what I can do about that.

- I like how in the cover the front characters stand out by coloring them differently, but the effect would be best improved by using thinner outlines for the background characters, rather than by using a white one around those in the front - which makes them look pasted in the cover instead of belonging there as the protagonists they are

Not sure if I can fix this without re inking the ball o characters. Which I refuse to do because it took FOREVER XD

- if you're including the whole sentence "created by Keith Taylor" sentence in the cover, I'd recommend not using handwriting thee, a smaller font (it rivals the comic's actual title and you're not famous enough yet, so the work must speak for itself) or both. Handwriting seems fine in an early introductory page or the actual comic or in the back cover IMO.

Not famous enough?!!! >:-(
I'll do that. I didn't put my name on any covers from the single issues so I figured I'd write it on this one. But this way I can put my name and web site there.

- instead of having one part of the cover say "the entire collection issues 1-6" and the other "prologue" ("is it the whole thing or just the prologue?"), consider dropping the top corner bit and tweaking the "prologue" part to say something like "full prologue"

Maybe Complete Prologue? Should I add the # of issues to the back? I also think I should add that there are 310 pages on the front or back somewhere.

- the guy behind Fenny (whom I remember best for being your avatar for a while, only wearing a mask), has an odd grin and look in his eyes that make it look like he's on drugs or something. Maybe I'm just too used to seeing the mask, but his eyes look oddly fucsed somewhere and unfocused at the same time, and that draws some attention that Fenny and Sally should probably be getting instead. Maybe there's a way to tweak this is the outlines' thickness gets tweaked...

I'll try to tweak his face a bit. Since I'll be tweaking I'll tweak Mote's too. The more I look at it the more I dislike it. (Mote is the guy on the other side of the big black alien next to the fin alien)

- also a background character, the lips on the girl in the bottom left corner just look so thick... I don't recall her role in the story, so I don't remember if they always look that thick;the girl to her right has a bit of a disturbing-looking smile, but that kinda helped emphasize her role in the actual story, so that fits...

They were always that thick, and that girl always seems to have a half forced creepy smile. I had to erase it many times cause it kept looking normal XD

- it's probably set in stone in the story and won't change, but it feels terribly odd how in the back cover Fenny's suit's color patterns bring "civilian" summer clothing to mind (not to mention the ponytail compartment in her helmet), but Sally is actually wearing summer clothing on top of her space suit...

I don't get what you mean ??? Are you not liking the "summer" look? But yeah, I can't change them now. No reason to anyway. Only Fenny has an armor now and it won't last longer than 1 issue before it's not usable any longer. Sally simply tied some of her clothing (a short over shirt and long sleeve shirt) around her armor. Not really for fashion, but because the suit is pretty skin tight and you know how she is about that stuff.

- there's something odd about the background color/patterns, but I can't quite put my finger on it, no actual design studies to acknowledge that and know how to fix it...

The space backdrop? Maybe it isn't balanced enough? Or too much? I'll leave it as is because it accentuates the over the top space scenes that my readers have said they really enjoy seeing. Which I won't be able to make anymore now either.

- I see no need to fully capitalize the characters' names in the introduction to the story.

NOTED... I mean, noted ;-) -will change

- starts with praising of Fenny (see Canon Sue comment from earlier), then uses the verb "abduct" applied to people that want her help, almost making the other Grands look like they're the ones trying to do something helpful; replacing the term "abduction" for something else might help keep things on track.

I actually decided to use "abducted" for the tongue in cheek nature. The comic has a lot of tongue in cheek themes and doesn't fully take itself too too seriously. I was conflicted on the manner in which to describe the whole prologue. But it's so insane that trying to make it sound truly epic is a bad marketing point IMO

(the constant use of the word "Grand" for races and caracter names in the comic always felt a bit odd for me - then again, this is the same comic where in a pocket dimension people always use full names in casual conversation)

Something else you won't have to worry about with the new series. A lot of these things were decided to set the worlds apart a bit. For better or worse.

- "ancient weapon" should be fine as a term - if they're bothering to come from space to get it, we get it it's a big deal and must be powerful

Noted -will change

- then the 2nd paragraph mentions Sally's help, but not if she was abducted too...

Just thought it'd be a tad repetitive to say it again for her.

Thank you very much. I'm glad I hadn't gotten around to shading the ball o characters or the spine characters XD
Back to the drawing board! WHEW

Oh, Loona... Did you get my PM asking you for a banner for your site? JNP.com's getting a facelift soon and I want to make sure all the sites I host have pwetty banners on em!

[Duo Solo]

Sweet, this looks pretty good.

[Rikard]

Y'know, I just noticed that it looks like the two main girls aren't wearing shoes at all -- they're just wearing socks. This might not be a problem on their spacesuits since they're supposed to be form-fitting, but it's very noticeable on their casual clothing. Maybe giving their shoes 1cm or so of sole would help.

[JustNoPoint]

Sweet, this looks pretty good.

Thanks

Y'know, I just noticed that it looks like the two main girls aren't wearing shoes at all -- they're just wearing socks. This might not be a problem on their spacesuits since they're supposed to be form-fitting, but it's very noticeable on their casual clothing. Maybe giving their shoes 1cm or so of sole would help.

Yeah, I really need to get better with shoes/feet. Sally's shoes need a sole. Fenny's do not. I'm not even 100% sure what her shoes/pants are made of to be honest. Her pants are attached to her "shoes" =p
I assume it's a somewhat tough flexible material. By 2132 everyone you know will be wearing shoes like this! I already completed the shading on the girls so I don't think I'll be able to tweak her feet again without having to tweak several other layers

Thanks for pointing it out though. I'll try to add do a better job in future images of her!

[JustNoPoint]

http://www.justnopoint.com/Stuff/Devon/betacover0032.jpg
Updated Image. I think I corrected all the things Loona mentioned. Even a few that I said I wouldn't =p

I tried something else on the ball o character inks. Let me know if it works better. Removed the white outline from the girls. The girls are shaded.
I added the Big Bad to the spine of the book. Yes, his arm and tail will "break" when the book closes. Think that's a big deal? (he can shapeshift after all so he could actually bend however he wanted)

[Rikard]

I assume it's a somewhat tough flexible material. By 2132 everyone you know will be wearing shoes like this! I already completed the shading on the girls so I don't think I'll be able to tweak her feet again without having to tweak several other layers

But dude! Think of the implications! Walking with no soles means you're going to feel every single thing you step on even if it doesn't pierce your clothing, including nails and spikes and stuff like that! D: Ok it's your comic so yeah I'll stop being e-tarted lol.
Seriously though, the thing that actually makes their feet look like they're wearing socks is that their shoes aren't shoe-shaped. As I explained before shoes are supposed to absorb shock, so they have to wrap around your feet to protect them and not just be there as a coating device. Besides you might excuse your 'huge feet' syndrome as just "IT'S THEIR SHOES THEY'RE HUGE" if you change them around a bit, but that's a minor detail. :p

Anyway, you might want to take a look at this. 5 min Photoshop edit to give you an idea. Haven't put much effort in it so I messed up her heel zone, but I hope this helps.