hit-stun-less attacks

[DNZRX768]

So, I have read up somewhere that long hit-stuns are prone to infinites.

So, to minimize the risk of such things, is there a way to make an attack hit-stun-less?

[Bastard Mami]

you are one step away form just removing attacks completely, that way you will remove infinites too.

[Warden-San]

...Just try playing a good amount of fighting games until you get a good understanding of how they work. No, Super Smash Bros doesn't count.

[Cobra Caddie]

I tried to find a way to have an attack that doesn't stun or interrupt the opponent for a Contra based character I was working on. I wanted them to be able to fire a lot of bullets and it wouldn't be fair if those bullets stunned the enemy cause it would lead to infinites. I tried everything I could think of, including trying to be clever with work arounds for it, but I couldn't find anything. Nobody has been able to find a way to do it, the opponent needs to go to a hit state for attacks to do damage. Sorry.

[felineki]

I was actually wondering about this myself, since I'm planning to make Huitzil. The missiles in his Might Launcher special do no damage or hitstun upon contact with the opponent, all that happens is that they spawn the explosion object, which is what does the actual damage.

[Bastard Mami]

you can try spanning them on proximity, but that still sucks.

[Cobra Caddie]

Well that's not a problem. You can make something come in contact or even hit the enemy without stunning them. The problem is causing damage. Since the attack does no damage, what you want is possible. It's been a while, but I believe what you need is this in the hitdef:

ground.type = none

Then you can use either movecontact triggers(I'm not sure if they'll Register this way, though) or p1stateno in the hitdef.

[felineki]

Noted, thanks.

[Bastard Mami]

Well that's not a problem. You can make something come in contact or even hit the enemy without stunning them. The problem is causing damage. Since the attack does no damage, what you want is possible. It's been a while, but I believe what you need is this in the hitdef:

ground.type = none

Then you can use either movecontact triggers(I'm not sure if they'll Register this way, though) or p1stateno in the hitdef.

homoshiroi, and what happens, does it interrupt p2's state, etc (just post what you know, I will test specifics if I find an use for this)?

[Cyanide]

It still interrupts attacks and you pass through 5000 regardless. Proximity is your only option. You can use p2bodydist X as well as enemynear(0) redirects for both Pos Y and const(size.head.pos.y) to confirm that you're within range of hitting.

The only other possibility if you want things to deal damage without hitting is the reversaldef bug that makes p2 in a custom state attack a helper, which reverses the attack and once p2 goes to idle it holds the target regardless of p2movetype.

[DNZRX768]

I see. Because there are plenty of infinites in my characters in my rosters and I need to find a way to get rid of them...

[Bastard Mami]

Just play around/adjust your hit and animation times, you want to have hit stun and you want your attacks to aslt a decent amount of time so they don't before the hitstun is over.

[Cyanide]

Removing the ability to hit F from certain attacks is also a good idea.

P2's pausetime should rarely be higher than yours. You shouldn't have a hittime longer than the recovery of any attack that ought to finish a combo (or they should knock down with no followup)

Ie Heavy attack, after hit you have 10 frames of recovery. P2's hittime is 13. Your light punch should have at LEAST 4 ticks before it is allowed to hit so p2 has time to recover. Less than that will cause an infinite

[Cobra Caddie]

homoshiroi, and what happens, does it interrupt p2's state, etc (just post what you know, I will test specifics if I find an use for this)?

It still interrupts attacks and you pass through 5000 regardless. Proximity is your only option. You can use p2bodydist X as well as enemynear(0) redirects for both Pos Y and const(size.head.pos.y) to confirm that you're within range of hitting.

The only other possibility if you want things to deal damage without hitting is the reversaldef bug that makes p2 in a custom state attack a helper, which reverses the attack and once p2 goes to idle it holds the target regardless of p2movetype.

Actually if you have the ground.type set to none it DOESN'T interrupt the opponent. The attack registers as having gone through on player 1's side, but p2 is not interrupted or damaged by it.

[Cyanide]

Is that from testing? If it is that's not what happened in winmugen as there were times when that would have been really useful.

[Cobra Caddie]

That is what happens in winmugen. Here, I just went and turned all of Balrog's hits to ground.type=none and made a video with them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVUuS0Znzxs

There is a flaw, if you don't make it unguardable and remove the guarddist, they'll still go into the block state if they're holding back. And when your move hits with them blocking, it'll stun them like normal.

Edit: Looking back this post seems pretty annoying. I'll just clarify that the only reason I knew any of this is because of the Contra Team I worked on, where I exhausted every possibility I could to make bullets hurt the opponent without interrupting them. Finding out about the effects of ground.type = none was one of the results. Didn't mean to show you up, Cyanide.

[Cyanide]

I knew that existed but for some reason have always believed it didn't work.

Gonna have to play with that, if you can do none + large hittime and retain target for a bit that would be handy

Edit: Ah, no, all it gives you is a nonbreaking movehit. Doesn't let you retain target or anything like that, in fact, you never get a target at all.

Interestingly enough, it's given me a bug to report.

[Cobra Caddie]

Ya, it doesn't set or retain a target at all. It turned out to be completely useless unfortunately for that Contra character I was working on. However, it can be used with p1stateno to do what felineki wanted it to do.