SFII "REMAKE" FULL-GAME IDEAS

[Darkside]

*I didn't know if this was the right place to post this.*

I have Street Fighter II for the 360's arcade and was suddenly inspired to do a remake. I don't post here often anymore, but since discovering MUGEN almost 3 years ago, I've had a lot of practice, but never had an interest on releasing anything other than a full game, outside of a few stages I put out that gathered some interest. (In fact, I think I was the first to release Necro's SFIII: Third Strike stage, but I don't know for sure.)

I have some ideas on how I'd like to get started, and I figured since it would be developed on MUGEN, your input is vital to the completion of this project. I'm absoultely adamant about it looking like something Capcom would release if they would just get their shit together and show some respect for the game that made them who they are today.

Here are some of the concepts I have in mind -

- Street Fighter Alpha sprites, this is obviously a must, given their availability and unique look compared to the original SFII

- Multiple super combo gauges, this is just an afterthought. However, they would all have to be crafted to all be equally balanced.

- Parrying, no more fireball chicken fights.

- Original characters and movesets. Again, this should be more of an IMPROVED update. SFII was incredibly balanced in my opinion, so it's important to me that this is retained. I intend on starting small and only remaking the original release, with the future editions added as updates.

Let me know what you think. Input and ideas would be most appreciated.

[Leon Belmont]

I've always had full-game in mind similar to this, but I'm too inexperienced at coding in general for me to put any of my ideas into execution.

- Street Fighter Alpha sprites, this is obviously a must, given their availability and unique look compared to the original SFII

You're going to have to do some editting/drawing for the shotos. Because SFA Ryu just can't look like a SF2 Ryu no matter how much color seperation you have. Same with Ken and Gouki. Especially Ken too in this case because he cut his hair somewhere between SFA and SF2. Please don't be Capcom and just use CVS sprites even though they do share similarities with SFA sprites.

- Multiple super combo gauges, this is just an afterthought. However, they would all have to be crafted to all be equally balanced.

You mean like the ISM system from Alpha 3? Or you mean different levels for supers? In SF2, every character only had 1 super, and it took an entire bar to use. I can see where you're getting to if you make the supers weak, medium and strong respectively. But giving characters a whole different system (or a 'system select') wouldn't really make this game SF2. Or anything like SF2 to be more specific.

- Parrying, no more fireball chicken fights.

How are you supposed to 'remake SF2' and give it an SF3 property? It doesn't make sense at all.

[Darkside]

Okay, maybe I worded everything wrong. To help the pace of this project, adding elements from games that came out later are necessary. Like I said, parrying will help alleviate the problem with fireball chicken fights. Maybe 're-mix' is a more appropriate term than 'remake', but I would like them to at least retain their original movesets.

Also, about the super combo meters...I was also thinking of assigning certain amounts of stock to the different characters, for the sake of balance. But then again, It may not be an issue until later on.

[felineki]

If "fireball chicken fights" are a "problem" I think you should just forget about SF2 completely. What you're trying to make isn't SF2-like at all, anyway. With all the CvS2/etc edited SF characters already made, you've basically got everything for this "new" game already anyway.

[DemonicDrPhil]

mugen creators are a lazy bunch with a lack of free time it seems.

Yes in all actuality, every friggen member of this forum could get together and make a fighting game worthy of the demo noise for Marvel Super Heroes Vs Street Fighter (ARE YOU READY TRUE BELIEVERS THIS IS THE GREATEST GAME EVER MADE PREPARE YOUR TESTICLES FOR IMMINENT RELEASE IT'S MARVEL SUPER HEROES VS STREET FIGHTER!!!!!!!!11111111111~~~~~~~~~~!@@234$#%5456)

But it seems like the better a creator you are the less free time you have to work on your stuff.
Good luck with the project and with getting a team together.

Furthermore people usually like proof that the people they are working with/for know what the hell they are doing especially when said work has little to no compensation.

Do some of the game yourself release a couple of characters with everything in them and the full game will come later like with Warusaki's characters.

[greetlock]

Ok, since you put it that way, I'll leave my little input.
First of all, I think it's a good idea... and tho I wish you could use the sprites from SF3, almost none of the characters from SF2 are there.... I hope you plan on making SFII Turbo, and not SSFII Turbo...
I think it should stay as faithful to the original as possible, just taking the better sprites (most likely from CvSII, since it features all of SFII's characters, and have the best looking sprites next to SF3. I would suggest fireball dodging or simply a NotHitBy for the split-second when you get up, rather than parrying, simply because parrying takes the fun away from the game, and hence brings up the cheapness.... even tho it's actually "skills" it changes the whole SF2 gameplay, where I can remember having to survive with a one pixel long life bar, and actually defeating my opponent while they still had about a third of their health.
Here goes my ideas for the game:

-Capcom vs SNK sprites
-Improved intro/ending
-Arcade story mode (all characters should special intro with each other at the beginning of a match)
-Good AI, but not Omniscient
-All characters should have their new moves not included in the original game
-Super moves should be available in an optional game mode (if possible)
-Charlie, Gouken, and Akuma should be featured in this game. (charlie could be an alternate guile)
-Improved graphics on bonus stages (if possible), and add new ones
-Add a special custom killer, ass whooping, death slapping, chun-li raping, combo to every character in the game. One that you would have to figure out by yourself (or be lazy and check out the combo links in the character.cfg file). And example of this combo would be:
Ryu: Jump Roundhouse, standing strong, standing fierce, crouching forward, ha-do-ken, tatsu-maki-senpu-kiaku, low sho-ryu-ken, jump jab, short, strong, forward, fierce, air tatsu-maki-senpu-kiaku, fierce sho-ryu-ken (as you touch the ground and opponent still in air)...

I think that last one could be done simply by not allowing this moves to be performed unless only, and just only if the specific pattern of moves has been performed (kind of like a killer instinct type of combo)...

What do you guys think?

BTW... soon I will be posting my Evil Sagat and Sulfur (fire Venom) which nobody but me and one of my close friends have.... Don't get excited I've seen some really great mugen characters out there, and mine are not one of them. But they do give all the "holy" "evil" "god" "pissed" "orochi" "etc" shotokans a hard time, and I don't even know how to program AI. LOL Xp

[greetlock]

Oh, two more things I forgot to mention.... I would actually suggest, and prefer a remake of Street Fighter I.... Which I wanted to make myself, but am extremely lazy and impatient and lacking the time to do it.... I wouldn't even want to imagine having to make the sprites for the characters that have not been made ever again... although I was a little excited about seeing a better looking geki nowadays.... (please, not an edited Vega/Balrog). I think the so called special moves (hadoken, shoryuken,tatsumakisenpukiaku) would be the super moves, which you could only perform after filling up you power meter by performing a variety of successful combos, offensive tactics, and/or avoiding damage. I think if Capcom or anyone would ever plan on remaking this game, that should be the way to make it.... Instead of pumping up the characters even more with ridiculous amounts of powers, rather make it a more tactical game and then, if you're successful, you can perform a whopping hadoken that causes 1/3 health damage....

The other thing is just an off topic... Where can I download Martial Masters characters?
I was able to play this arcade for just two or three months back in my home town, and once I learned how to play, no one could beat me with Monk. Of course envy and self denial caused people to eventually stop playing this game when they realized no one could beat me... Yes, the same cheap asses that would violate me and make me feel like a three year old in Marvel vs Capcom2, I would be a good sport and challenge them again, and again, but I guess they were sore loosers..... Peace out..!

[Omega]

İ suggest you to start with the Screenpack and stages after.

Just make the system later for the Characters base after you made those.

Making a Screenpack is a serieus progress of what you do.

İt would show you the graphics/style of the game.

About Gamplay:

Make Groove systems is what i suggest. Just like the İSM mode selection they had really.
- a classic groove (SF2 official groove system)
- a new groove (no name but, could be your style)

İ would be glad to help you out with the sprite ripping for Characters.

[Leon Belmont]

I hope you plan on making SFII Turbo, and not SSFII Turbo...

Though this makes the job easier, we won't be able to put in supers. There's others, but this is the main loss with remaking a game as old as SF2T.

I think it should stay as faithful to the original as possible, just taking the better sprites (most likely from CvSII, since it features all of SFII's characters, and have the best looking sprites next to SF3. I would suggest fireball dodging or simply a NotHitBy for the split-second when you get up, rather than parrying, simply because parrying takes the fun away from the game, and hence brings up the cheapness.... even tho it's actually "skills" it changes the whole SF2 gameplay, where I can remember having to survive with a one pixel long life bar, and actually defeating my opponent while they still had about a third of their health.

I don't get it. Why do you guys want to remake SF2, and then not allow fireball traps? Doesn't seem like SF2 to me.

-Capcom vs SNK sprites

Sounds good. But you DO realise that the SF2 characters in CVS (that aren't Ryu and Ken) are actually Street Fighter Alpha sprites, but scaled.

-Improved intro/ending

So you're going to draw them all up? Or what? I hope you're planning to keep the same content in them. Or else once again, not a remake.

-Arcade story mode (all characters should special intro with each other at the beginning of a match)

EVERY character have a special intro for EVERY other character? It doesn't work. Some characters have no significance with each other at all. Stuff like Ryu/Sagat, Ryu/Ken, maybe Ryu/Honda okay, but things like Ryu/Blanka, Ryu/Cammy ... what the hell kind of intro would you put for that? You can't have a special intro for every character. Doesn't work.

-Good AI, but not Omniscient

You mean, not too hard. Omniscent is the complete wrong word for this. Anyway, that aside, I do agree. The game needs good AI, and probably a certain ladder, where some characters get harder AI than others. But overall, everyone would need good AI.

-All characters should have their new moves not included in the original game

Then it ain't a remake. You're just fucking with shit and releasing a CVS with only SF2 characters. That's just retarded.

-Charlie, Gouken, and Akuma should be featured in this game. (charlie could be an alternate guile)

Charlie, Akuma; okay, more the merrier, and they wouldn't put so much of a toll on the balance. But seriously, Gouken? He's dead and irrelevant. And who's going to draw him?

-Improved graphics on bonus stages (if possible), and add new ones

Reasonable, but I wouldn't worry too much about bonus stages as of now.

-Add a special custom killer, ass whooping, death slapping, chun-li raping, combo to every character in the game. One that you would have to figure out by yourself (or be lazy and check out the combo links in the character.cfg file). And example of this combo would be:
Ryu: Jump Roundhouse, standing strong, standing fierce, crouching forward, ha-do-ken, tatsu-maki-senpu-kiaku, low sho-ryu-ken, jump jab, short, strong, forward, fierce, air tatsu-maki-senpu-kiaku, fierce sho-ryu-ken (as you touch the ground and opponent still in air)...

No.

think that last one could be done simply by not allowing this moves to be performed unless only, and just only if the specific pattern of moves has been performed (kind of like a killer instinct type of combo)...

Does this topic look like a fucking 'Killer Instinct Street Fighter Remake lulz' to you? It's friggin' SF2, and it's a friggin' remake. Please, no bullshit.


So first, if you want to go ahead with this game, what are you remaking? SF2T or SSF2T?

Make Groove systems is what i suggest. Just like the İSM mode selection they had really.
- a classic groove (SF2 official groove system)
- a new groove (no name but, could be your style)

Good idea. But instead, to be true to 'remake', I'd suggest it like this:
Classic Groove (CPS1; SF2, SF2T, etc), Turbo Groove (SSF2) and Super Turbo (SSF2T) groove.


But guys, if you aren't even into specifics or in-depth details for SF2, don't try it. You'll make hardcore SF2 fans like myself quite sad.

[PotS]

But you DO realise that the SF2 characters in CVS (that aren't Ryu and Ken) are actually Street Fighter Alpha sprites, but scaled.

Gouki, Vega and Chun-li were also redrawn. [/Captain Obvious reminder]
Most of the rest don't look half bad when resized either (especially Zangief, Honda, Blanka and Sagat).

This full game idea has crossed my mind as well, but then again I guess everyone who likes both SF2 and Mugen can say that.

[FeLo_Llop]

But you DO realise that the SF2 characters in CVS (that aren't Ryu and Ken) are actually Street Fighter Alpha sprites, but scaled.

Gouki, Vega and Chun-li were also redrawn. [/Captain Obvious reminder]
Most of the rest don't look half bad when resized either (especially Zangief, Honda, Blanka and Sagat).

This full game idea has crossed my mind as well, but then again I guess everyone who likes both SF2 and Mugen can say that.

+ Zangief in CFJ. Although he was only resized, but he can works too.

[DemonicDrPhil]

TC mentioned he wanted it to be more of a remix rather than a remake a few posts up so basically all input pertaining to SF2 accuracy is pointless, unless TC changed his (assuming) mind.

[greetlock]

-Though this makes the job easier, we won't be able to put in supers. There's others, but this is the main loss with remaking a game as old as SF2T.

You could put supers in SF2T just as they did in SSF2T (SSF2T is a game I've always hated, it's just not the quality of SF2-SF2T)

-I don't get it. Why do you guys want to remake SF2, and then not allow fireball traps? Doesn't seem like SF2 to me.

I agree with you on that one, I was just trying to find an option for the guy mentioning the chicken fireballs stuff

-Sounds good. But you DO realise that the SF2 characters in CVS (that aren't Ryu and Ken) are actually Street Fighter Alpha sprites, but scaled.
Yes I do, but for some reason, Sagat doesn't look like the Sagat from Alpha.. I have both sprites in Mugen and they don't look quite the same...

-So you're going to draw them all up? Or what? I hope you're planning to keep the same content in them. Or else once again, not a remake.
Well, not me, but a better artist could... I just don't have the patience to do so, but given that Mugen doesn't face the limits an old game like SF2 faced, the endings could look better. The content can be the same, but ther'es something about the words in the endings that seemed like written by a 12 year old. (I'm talking about SF2-SF2T)

-EVERY character have a special intro for EVERY other character? It doesn't work. Some characters have no significance with each other at all. Stuff like Ryu/Sagat, Ryu/Ken, maybe Ryu/Honda okay, but things like Ryu/Blanka, Ryu/Cammy ... what the hell kind of intro would you put for that? You can't have a special intro for every character. Doesn't work.

Dude, use your imagination... Of course it is obvious that Ryu/Sagat, Ryu/Ken, and Ryu/Akuma will make more sense, but adding itro for everyone would be more fun. And it is as simple as this:
Ryu/Blanka:
-Ryu: .....  -Blanka: waargghh wwooooh glaarrrg -Ryu: ...What is this thing?... -Blanka: WWWWAAAAAARRRGGGHH -End of story
Ryu/Cammy:
-Cammy: Out of my way...  -Ryu: Huh? Who the hell are you? -Cammy: I'm on a mission, now go away. -Ryu: Wait a minute, what kind of mission? -Cammy: Just shut up and get outta my way NOW...!!!
BTW.. Ryu/Honda makes more sense to you...? Just because they're both from Japan? Please gimme one, cuz that one I haven't really figured out what to make of it... Honda: You're from Japan -Ryu: Yes, I am -Honda: Cool

-You mean, not too hard. Omniscent is the complete wrong word for this. Anyway, that aside, I do agree. The game needs good AI, and probably a certain ladder, where some characters get harder AI than others. But overall, everyone would need good AI.

No, I don't mean Not too hard, I mean, good AI... and Omniscient is the word... What I mean by that is not having the CPU perform counter moves as you input your own commands. This kind of behavior could be seen throughout the Mortal Kombat series, and unfortunately, in SSF2T... Capcom screwed up that time....

Quote
-All characters should have their new moves not included in the original game
Then it ain't a remake. You're just fucking with shit and releasing a CVS with only SF2 characters. That's just retarded.

Read carefully, or maybe it was just my bad for not wanting to type in the details... When I say new moves, I don't mean the super moves, I mean the regular moves that we might miss from the newer titles... Remember that I was talking about SF2T Where Zangief doesn't break the fireballs with the handslap, and Vega doesn't do the flying claw (Hold down, up+punch) move, Chun Li's Kikoken instead of "Yap", etc.

-Charlie, Akuma; okay, more the merrier, and they wouldn't put so much of a toll on the balance. But seriously, Gouken? He's dead and irrelevant.

I agree, he is dead, but I mean just not in the game, but as an extra character, or alternate Akuma, or simply just in training mode, LOL....

-And who's going to draw him?

Do you play mugen????

-Does this topic look like a fucking 'Killer Instinct Street Fighter Remake lulz' to you? It's friggin' SF2, and it's a friggin' remake. Please, no bullshit.

Just an idea, we don't really need it, but it was just an idea, like a brutality in MK3, or a combo in KI (but not the auto combos)... just like when with Ken, you jump roundhouse, stand fierce, and then fierce dragon punch, but longer, and that you can only perform successfully if you do it in the right order.. (so Ryu can't do the same as Ken, or likewise the other way around)
I actually intend to do with my own character once I'm done with him...

-Good idea. But instead, to be true to 'remake', I'd suggest it like this:
Classic Groove (CPS1; SF2, SF2T, etc), Turbo Groove (SSF2) and Super Turbo (SSF2T) groove.

Funny, the only thing you like is the most SF2 incompatible idea ever mentioned. I think the 3 level Capcom groove (like the one on regular mugen) is all we need... or just a one level bar.

-But guys, if you aren't even into specifics or in-depth details for SF2, don't try it. You'll make hardcore SF2 fans like myself quite sad.

If you really want an exact replica of the game, why not download the original game from an emulator...? It seems that's what will make you happy...

[felineki]

(SSF2T is a game I've always hated, it's just not the quality of SF2-SF2T)

Not many people seem to agree with you, ST still gets much more serious play than any of the other versions.

This isn't the first thread like this I've read, and there are people with this mindset even outside the Mugen communitry. It is so bizarre... these people seem to LOVE SF2 so much, yet all their dream ideas for the "prefct" remake of SF2 involve all sorts of gameplay butchering to try to make it into Alpha or SF3 or CvS2.

[greetlock]

Well, that being the case, I would love an exact replica of the game, with just better graphics and sounds... but not SSF2T.... the announcer sounds gay, the music doesn't go with a fighting environment, the colors are too bright, the AI is almost God-like in the hardest level, and you can only beat them with patterns rather than skills. Of course the game is played more than the earlier versions, because you said it yourself... "earlier versions" ....better graphics, more moves, more characters.... not better game.... And my suggestions would be rather for the remix than the remake... adding just a few add ons, that wouldn't change the game so much, but it would definately enhance it..... Read carefully....

[felineki]

Well, that being the case, I would love an exact replica of the game, with just better graphics and sounds... but not SSF2T.... the announcer sounds gay, the music doesn't go with a fighting environment, the colors are too bright, the AI is almost God-like in the hardest level, and you can only beat them with patterns rather than skills. Of course the game is played more than the earlier versions, because you said it yourself... "earlier versions" ....better graphics, more moves, more characters.... not better game....

Did you read what I said? It gets more serious play. As in tournament-level stuff. The people who play at that level are concerned with gameplay, not announcers, music, graphics, or AI. And those things are matters of opinion anyway, I don't mind the announcer, and ST's soundtrack is one of my all-time favorites. I also like the color direction, not every video game has to be drab and brown.

[greetlock]

Oops...! I did forget to mention that there is no doubt that the game is more fun to play in versus mode than in arcade mode... And about the colors... I don't mean drab and brown, I just mean not so brightly colored.... Look at SF3 compared to Alpha... or SF2 compared to SSF2... My concern it's not about having more colors, but about too much color.... but then again, I CAN adjust my tv screen and lower the amount of color....

But look at you... you're trying to put a kitten in the game.... 

[Bea]

This isn't the first thread like this I've read, and there are people with this mindset even outside the Mugen communitry. It is so bizarre... these people seem to LOVE SF2 so much, yet all their dream ideas for the "prefct" remake of SF2 involve all sorts of gameplay butchering to try to make it into Alpha or SF3 or CvS2.

Indeed.
At least I got my dream SF2 remake released, which includes all sort of insane gameplay butchering. And a new version is due to be out soon.

But being serious now, I'd suggest that the original poster should try to downsize the ideas and try to have a running beta before going postal with the gameplay changes. Making a good, balanced and fun gameplay requires quite an effort, and countless hours of bug fixing and fine tunning.

[Darkside]

EDIT: Website started. Hopefully it helps. www.freewebs.com/sftwoteam

Okay, thanks to everyone for your input, now I see where I need to go with this.

-Intro dialogue was always an idea I had. And for EVERY character to interact with EVERY character would definitely make way for some interesting dialogue.

-I guess the phrases "remake" and "remix" were misleading. The only thing to do would make a new fighting game solely based on SFII Turbo. It would still have the basics, with additions.

-A new type of parry system may need to be introduced, but my first beta character would have the SFIII parry to start with.

-Bonus stages would be new and hopefully, completely original.

-Cutscenes and new intros are another thing that was touched upon, and I'll make note of that when things pick up.

For now, the goal is a screenpack. (I'm shooting for double-res.) I'm also going to put up a website for more information.

[Cybaster]

-A new type of parry system may need to be introduced,

Can you develop ?

Good luck, I'm hoping to see all your ideas soon.