Leon's WIP

[Leon Belmont]

Yeah. Next page.

[TempesT]

I'm trying to think if 2003 Kusanagi and 2002 Kusanagi were much different... because I was going to suggest you make it more like the 2002 version.

I can't wait to see your Kim, the only reason I started mine was because there wasn't a 2k2 carnation of him that I knew of. Are you going to use Kim's Zero Kyori Hou'ou Kyaku as the LDM, or Hiten Hou'ou Kyaku?

[Cybaster]

If you want to make great characters instead of just good ones, I think you should quit guessing velocities, and actually gather them from the games entirely.

Reading your whole topic about Terry at RS, I don't see much I could add about him.
Will the super and dream cancel be like Jin's or anybody's chars, or will they follow Vans' implementation, with the actual skill bar (in which case you could make it compatible with his lifebars, and why not ask his authorization for some code) ?

[TempesT]

It's really up to you, I just deeply prefer Zero Kyori Hou'ou Kyaku as a HDSM/LDM move.

[Bastard Mami]

the tick that is lost is only lost for p1, iirc. also check on the ctrl tick fix.

[State -1, Tick Fix]
type=ctrlset
triggerall= !ctrl
trigger1= (stateno=52 || stateno=101 || stateno=106 || stateno=5120) && !animtime
trigger2= (stateno=[200,499]) && !animtime
trigger3= (stateno=5001 || stateno=5011 || stateno=151 || stateno=153) && hitover
value=1

[Robert The Small]

I also would like to follow Vans' characters with the cancels, but I just don't really think he'd allow it. Then again I don't know him so that may or may not be the case.

It couldn't hurt to ask.  He has a profile here, and his Website (TrinityMugen) has a forum and I believe his email is in all of his readme's soo...

[Bastard Mami]

it's not like you can't create yoru own code for that anyway.

[Vans]

I also would like to follow Vans' characters with the cancels, but I just don't really think he'd allow it. Then again I don't know him so that may or may not be the case. 

I would.

Feel free to use anything you need from my characters (except the KOFXI sparks, since they are Misamu's. ). If you need help getting data, I can help you with that.

Really looking forward to your work.   

[Leon Belmont]

Revival, I think.

Long story short, old WIPs got cut off again and I went on a semi-hiatus. My apologies. Hopefully, Vans will continue to allow me to use things in his characters despite my awfully unpromising ability to finish my characters. For anyone who's wondering, no I'm not continuing my old stuff (for the second time since I've joined). And I know I have tons of unfinished WIPs. I really hope this time around I can actually end up finishing something before something else gets in the way.

Not much to say here, I have three WIPs, two of which probably don't need announcing.

Evil Ryu:

Spoiler (click to show)

System:
- I want it to be something like contemporary KOF, things like dodge roll, running, run jumping, knockdown attacks, super cancels and the like as opposed to parries, super jumps, side dodging, power charging etc.
- As I said, no power charging, parrying, just defence, etc.

Notes:
- I actually have not asked PotS whether he would mind me using his sprites or not, but hopefully he doesn't.
- All normals in a working state but far from done.
- Notice how his name is 'Ryu'. Anyone could change his name, but by default it is only Ryu because he isn't necessarily evil, just a Ryu who took Gouki's path. Notice how Gouki isn't evil either.
- He is not a boss/mini-boss character. To compensate for his speed, power and mix-ups, I will give him a defense drop and probably some downsides in his moves to go with it.
- Yes, that is his default palette. There is no red headband because Ken doesn't give him one here.
- I'm making him because I want to make a rushdown-orientated Ryu that I enjoy using, something like Gouki but not so much exactly the same.
- In case you were wondering, yes I'm actually going to start another Ryu down the line, which will be zoning/defense-orientated.
- Basically, I'm announcing in case anyone would like to give ideas/suggestions. I'm bad with original stuff.

So just to emphasize the last line, I need some ideas and the like to put him apart from all the other Ryus out there, while still sustaining that genuine 'Ryu' feel and not going too far off tangent. Normally I would just ask the (limited) affiliates that I have, but I think I have been bothering them too much with Ken lately (& I think [E] forgot I exist) so I figured I'd post this here.

Thanks in advance.

[Cybaster]

The dark skin color on his feet doesn't look very nice IMO.

Got bored of your old stuff once again ? Or you think it's not good enough quality wise ? Or you lost it ?

Contemporary KOF ? Interresting.
Will you be going for a 4-button or a 6-buttons character then ?
Accuracy compared to what ? (CLSN, vels, etc.) or completely custom ?

Original stuff : Maybe Evil Ryu by Sumi could give you some ideas.

[Leon Belmont]

The dark skin color on his feet doesn't look very nice IMO.

Not sure I follow here but I'll look into it.

Got bored of your old stuff once again ? Or you think it's not good enough quality wise ? Or you lost it ?

Honestly speaking, I lost it. And also not good enough quality wise.

Contemporary KOF ? Interresting.
Will you be going for a 4-button or a 6-buttons character then ?
Accuracy compared to what ? (CLSN, vels, etc.) or completely custom ?

6-buttons, no real accuracy here. Besides referencing certain SF/KOF data for some things.

KOF stuff:
- Run/back hop
- Emergency evades
- Guard cancel/blowback
- Super/Dream cancel system
- Fast hop/Low jump/high jump/run jump
- Fallbreaker/recovery roll

I'll also try to incorporate counter wire/critical wire properties for a attack or two as well. A few of these things may not be entirely exclusive to KOF, but yeah.

Original stuff : Maybe Evil Ryu by Sumi could give you some ideas.

Thanks for the video. I don't think I'll be using that many effects though.

[Cybaster]

Honestly speaking, I lost it. And also not good enough quality wise.

I still have your SVC sprite Ryu with NGBC palettes and SF2 gameplay (IIRC) if you want.

Not sure I follow here but I'll look into it.

The color isn't natural IMO.

I don't think I'll be using that many effects though.

Yeah, I would have guessed.

[PotS]

The color isn't natural IMO.

Indeed, looks [quite]unnatural[/quite]. It's that darkest shade, you used grey on it.

- Notice how his name is 'Ryu'. Anyone could change his name, but by default it is only Ryu because he isn't necessarily evil, just a Ryu who took Gouki's path. Notice how Gouki isn't evil either.

Well in the Japanese versions he was never called "evil" ingame, it's really just a gaijin thing.

Rushdown like Gouki... does that mean aerial fireball and dive kick?
Can't think of anything new that wouldn't ruin Ryu's feel and hasn't been done yet... it's really hard to avoid the former when the char has had his basic formula untouched throughout 10+ games. Anyway, SPO Ryu had two well suited changes already (advancing Shoryuken and melee Hadouken), maybe you could draw some ideas from that.

[Leon Belmont]

Indeed, looks [quite]unnatural[/quite]. It's that darkest shade, you used grey on it.

Very sorry but I really don't know. How about this?

Rushdown like Gouki... does that mean aerial fireball and dive kick?

Basically he will be more rushdown based than the Ryu we know. I've sped up some of his attacks that emphasize this (11 startup overhead as opposed to TS' 14, faster sweep, 15 startup compared to 18 startup for towards+fierce) to improve his all around aggressiveness, mobility and mix-up game. His teleport will be slower and shorter distanced than Gouki's but it will still hold pretty much the same principals. To compensate for these advantages, his attacks are mostly weaker in damage, he has less stamina than usual, his attacks have less active frames, etc. Also, he will probably the first character I've made that will have juggle combos.

(So far) Planned movelist: (Mind the Japanese, they are simply guesses and could be very much wrong, please correct me in these cases)
Gou Hadouken - D,DF,F+P
Gou Shoryuken - F,D,DF+P - Jab & Strong do 1 hit and knockdown, Fierce does 2 hits and knocks down on 2nd hit
> D,DF,F+K - Hits the opponent downwards with great force. 1 hit.
Shakunetsu Hadouken - B,DB,D,DF,F+P - Hits twice, knocks down on 2nd hit
Tatsumaki Zankuu Kyaku - D,DB,B+K - Every hit knocks down. Can be done in the air.
Ashura Senkuu - F,D,DF+PPP or F,D,DF+KKK or B,D,DB+PPP or B,D,DB+KKK - P version goes shorter than K version

[1/2 bar]
Denka Hadouken - D,DF,F+P > D,DB,B+P - Before Ryu releases the Hadouken, input the 2nd command and he will release a slow, big electric projectile that can juggle airbourne opponents. Hits 3 times.
Kuuchuu Denka Hadouken - (In Air) B,D,F+P - Same thing, but travels at an angle.
Tatsumaki Raikou Kyaku - (In Air) B,D,DB+K - Ryu does an extraordinarily quick Tatsumaki that travels a horizontal distance determined by K used. 1 hit and knocks down.
Jinrai Kuujin Kyaku - (In Air) B,D,F+K - A lightning fast downward kick that travels through the opponent and leaves them in a long hitstun, enough to start another combo. 1 hit.

[1 bar]
Messatsu Gou Hadou - D,DF,F(x2)+P - 6 hit Hadouken.
Messatsu Gou Shoryu - D,DF,F(x2)+K - Two Shoryukens.

[2 bars]
Messatsu Gou Arashi - D,DF,F,D,DB,B+K - A travelling Tatsumaki where Ryu's legs are embraced with electric (thus having huge CLSN1s) whilst lightning strikes randomly around Ryu during the super. The lightning does small damage but juggles the opponent. The only place where you can score a clean hit on Ryu during this is from the above.

[3 bars]
Shun Goku Satsu - LP,LP,F,LK,HP - In contrast with with Gouki's; goes a shorter distance, immune to projectiles and invulnerable to throws. Also weaker.

Once again, some move names I made up may not be entirely correct, so feel free to correct any name issues.

I know it seems overly ambitious, but I'll give it my best shot (exams are over after all).

Any ideas/suggestions are welcome.

[Cybaster]

Very sorry but I really don't know. How about this?

Much better.

To compensate for these advantages, his attacks are mostly weaker in damage, he has less stamina than usual, his attacks have less active frames, etc. Also, he will probably the first character I've made that will have juggle combos.

I say yes to less stamina and less active frames, but his attacks should have the same power as usual.

> D,DF,F+K - Hits the opponent downwards with great force. 1 hit.

You mean this is a follow up to Gou Shoryuken ? Seems good.

Tatsumaki Zankuu Kyaku - D,DB,B+K - Every hit knocks down. Can be done in the air.

Air version will be a horizontal one or a parabola (affected by gravity) ?

The 1/2 bar techniques seem quite original, and that's awesome.

Tatsumaki Raikou Kyaku - (In Air) B,D,DB+K - Ryu does an extraordinarily quick Tatsumaki that travels a horizontal distance determined by K used. 1 hit and knocks down.

How will you make it look natural ? I mean, You jump in the air, perform the command ... and then Ryu travels forward very fast ?

Messatsu Gou Hadou - D,DF,F(x2)+P - 6 hit Hadouken.
Messatsu Gou Shoryu - D,DF,F(x2)+K - Two Shoryukens.

Isn't qcb*2+P and qcf*2+P more natural ? Or am I smoking ?

Messatsu Gou Arashi - blabla

How much damage would a full hit deal ? Allows juggle afterwards ?

No tenma kujin kyaku ? It would realy enhance the aggressivity of Ryu, combined with a diagonal air hadoken IMO. Also, I really loved Gargoyle's version of Evil Ryu, where TKK dealt two hits.

Another Evil Ryu was made by Roken, and he exchanged SGS with Violent Ken's Shinbu Messatsu, for a more aggressive look. Requires a lot of editing, but could be nice, dunno.

Nothing else comes to my mind for now. He already seems quite original. Good luck.

Spoiler (click to show)

AND F*CKING FINISH A CHARACTER THIS TIME !!!!

[Leon Belmont]

I say yes to less stamina and less active frames, but his attacks should have the same power as usual.

I totally understand what you mean. Just now I was changing the timings of his attacks so it would fit ST more, and most attacks are slower; while still being relatively quick. This means I can make his damage stay the same.

You mean this is a follow up to Gou Shoryuken ? Seems good.

Yes. But I'm not sure which animation I should use for it. Or should it be a punch instead (a la Sean SF3)?

Air version will be a horizontal one or a parabola (affected by gravity) ?

The 1/2 bar techniques seem quite original, and that's awesome.

Thanks.

Probably parabola.

How will you make it look natural ? I mean, You jump in the air, perform the command ... and then Ryu travels forward very fast ?

Actually, yes. But I'll see what I can do when I get up to it.

Isn't qcb*2+P and qcf*2+P more natural ? Or am I smoking ?

Oh, yes of course. I'm probably smoking.

How much damage would a full hit deal ? Allows juggle afterwards ?

Well, a full hit will probably deal around the 350 mark (when Ryu hits you with his legs, you don't fly away, rather you stay in the attack until it finishes). It will not allow juggles afterwards unless the opponent has been hit by a lightning strike. Lightning strikes would probably deal about 10 each.

No tenma kujin kyaku ? It would realy enhance the aggressivity of Ryu, combined with a diagonal air hadoken IMO. Also, I really loved Gargoyle's version of Evil Ryu, where TKK dealt two hits.

Jinrai Kuujin Kyaku actually uses TKK's animation. I was definitely considering the TKK but I thought it would give him too many offensive options. Then again, I'll probably throw it in since you mentioned it.

I'm not so sure about the diagonal air hadouken, it seems like a Gouki-only sort of thing. But I'll think about it.

Another Evil Ryu was made by Roken, and he exchanged SGS with Violent Ken's Shinbu Messatsu, for a more aggressive look. Requires a lot of editing, but could be nice, dunno.

Well, if anything, I'd rather keep the SGS for now (since E.Ryu in his respective games have SGS IIRC). But once again I'll think about it.

Spoiler (click to show)

AND F*CKING FINISH A CHARACTER THIS TIME !!!!

I really hope I do.

[PotS]

Messatsu Gou Hadou - D,DF,F(x2)+P - 6 hit Hadouken.
Messatsu Gou Shoryu - D,DF,F(x2)+K - Two Shoryukens.

Isn't qcb*2+P and qcf*2+P more natural ? Or am I smoking ?

Depends, Evil Ryu originally had the same commands as Ryu in the SFA games, which was more intuitive IMO, but then in CvS they decided to make his commands like Gouki to stray further from his normal self (and in turn become more of a Gouki clone ).
What I'm saying is that either set of commands is true to the character, but one makes him control like Gouki and the other like Ryu.

[Leon Belmont]

I'm still not sure which one I should use as a default. I'm slanting more towards the Gouki commands at the moment but I'll wait until I actually get up to it.

Update (Hadouken & Shoryuken):



In case anyone is interested, start up for Hadouken is 12 frames and the recovery is 40 frames. To differentiate between normal Ryu, his Shoryuken only has invincibility on the ground, and 1 tick as he's going up. As opposed to normal Ryu's (and Ken's for that matter) invincibility all the way through until he falls. I'm going by CPS1 SF2 data here, as I'm not too sure about SF3 Ryu and I'm not sure how S/ST Ryu works.

Also, you'll notice that his Hadoukens travel fast and the speed difference between jab and fierce isn't much to take note of. This is supposed to be a disadvantage in contrast with a normal Ryu's much more varying speeds that can throw your opponent's timing off in some cases.

Getting to work with Tatsumaki now.

[PotS]

I think invulnerability all the way up was only used until SSF2T, it's been only on the ground ever since.
Isn't 40 frames too much btw? Could be making it just a poke instead of the traditional Shoryuken trap, but then again that's probably exactly what you want.

[Leon Belmont]

I personally don't think it's too much & just like you said, I want it to be just a poke, not a trap like SF2.

I don't think I've mentioned this yet, but the character has no air guarding and you can't guard his attacks in the air.

Instead of Tatsumaki, I gave him the KOF knockdown attacks (y+b).



Counter version (1 bar):


I'm not too sure which animation I should use for the air version. Any suggestions?