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Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs (Read 4426 times)

Started by Scorcher, August 05, 2012, 05:46:26 pm
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Scorcher

Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#1  August 05, 2012, 05:46:26 pm
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Eternal Champions - Challenge from the Dark Side (Sega CD)
Stage: Belgrave Square Labs

Has a parallax floor and music. Thanks to Tamez for the help with background controllers.



Download
Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 04:45:59 pm by Scorcher

Tamez

Re: Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#2  August 05, 2012, 07:04:44 pm
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No problemo.   :gugoi:
I'll have to check the stage out later to see how it turned out. 

XamΣeta

Re: Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#3  August 05, 2012, 07:05:09 pm
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I am glad you are tackling these old schoolers.

Feedback:
- This release is meant for 1.0 and it will not load on older winmugen builds. You need to add/remove the following parameters for winmugen to recognize it properly...Just upload an alternate def:

[Info]
displayname = "Belgrave Square Labs"
name = "Belgrave Square Labs"
author = "Scorcher" 

[PlayerInfo]
;--- Player 1 ---
p1startx = -70
p1starty = 0
p1startz = 0
p1facing = 1

;--- Player 2 ---
p2startx = 70
p2starty = 0
p2startz = 0
p2facing = -1

[scaling]
topz     = 0       ;Top z-coordinate for scaling
botz     = 50      ;Bottom z-coordinate for scaling
topscale = 1       ;Scale to use at top
botscale = 1.2     ;Scale to use at bottom

[StageInfo]
zoffset = 221
autoturn = 1
resetBG = 1
localcoord = 320, 240
xscale = 1
yscale = 1

[Music]
bgmusic = sound/belgrave.mp3
bgmvolume = 100 ---> bgvolume = 255

- Animations are awesome and it shows you learned a lot from Tamez. Excellent job there.
- Parallax is still very iffy since characters slide a bit and you can also see sliding on the floor where it connects with the background.
- You can't really settle for the following:
verticalfollow = 0
floortension = 0
...What I mean is, you need some values up there otherwise you may run into some visually odd character behavior once in a while like weird stiff movement and corner pop outs that will make mugen look glitchy.

Keep going man, you are improving rather rapidly with each stage and that is always a godsend in this community.

EDIT:
Scorcher, I just downloaded Battle Room, Kitchen and Seattle Gym and noticed you need to fix parameters there as well in order for these stages to run in the older builds.

I hate to sound like a nitpick but I'm actually trying to help out since you did release these in Old Releases after all...I seems people have been playing your stages on 1.0 without running into problems or just didn't report it at all.
"We need other people in order to create the circumstances for the learning that we are here to generate" RIP Adam Yauch aka MCA
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Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 07:30:44 pm by MaxBeta

Scorcher

Re: Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#4  August 05, 2012, 07:51:02 pm
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MaxBeta said, August 05, 2012, 07:05:09 pm
I am glad you are tackling these old schoolers.

Feedback:
- This release is meant for 1.0 and it will not load on older winmugen builds. You need to add/remove the following parameters for winmugen to recognize it properly...Just upload an alternate def:

(...)
- Parallax is still very iffy since characters slide a bit and you can also see sliding on the floor where it connects with the background.
- You can't really settle for the following:
verticalfollow = 0
floortension = 0
...What I mean is, you need some values up there otherwise you may run into some visually odd character behavior once in a while like weird stiff movement and corner pop outs that will make mugen look glitchy.

Thanks for the feedback.

Parallax is still a bit tricky. I asked about that some time ago in the Development Help Thread, but unfortunately, there was no help. I'm still not quite sure, how to calculate the delta exactly, because the tutorial says "between how much the top of the floor moves" / "how much a standing character moved" and i don't know, what to do with that information.

I set "verticalfollow = 0" and "floortension = 0" because it prevents the camera from moving vertically at all - just like in the original game. If i set this to any value, the camera starts moving in that direction and you can see beyond the background sprites.


XamΣeta

Re: Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#5  August 05, 2012, 08:27:31 pm
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Scorcher said, August 05, 2012, 07:51:02 pm
Isn't the 1.0 release supposed to be the standard now?
I wouldn't call it a standard yet since there's still a bunch of people using the old builds because they can't run most stuff on 1.0 in their "limited" computer setups because of slowdown/memory issues.
Easy fix to your problem, just release your stuff in the 1.0 section and not in Old Releases.
Scorcher said, August 05, 2012, 07:51:02 pm
Parallax is still a bit tricky.
Yes, its one of the harder aspects to master from stage coding. Which tutorial did you follow?

About parallax on lores stages I can offer you these deltas:

delta = x.xxx, 1
xscale = 1, x.xxx

Keep in mind that when you finally get some values in that you are happy with (ensuring players don't slide anymore) you will have to adjust background elements delta's to snap into place with the parallax.

Scorcher said, August 05, 2012, 07:51:02 pm
I set "verticalfollow = 0" and "floortension = 0" because it prevents the camera from moving vertically at all - just like in the original game. If i set this to any value, the camera starts moving in that direction and you can see beyond the background sprites.
I understand that, but it is somewhat a lazy fix because you end up with static non-moving background elements and incorrect parallax and even some issues with character movement. floortension = 0 is not the big issue here since even the original training stage specifies that, but there's a reason to why Elecbyte wanted you to "typically use .2 as default verticalfollow on normal-sized backgrounds" and increase that value in case your stage is taller and this is camera movement...otherwise you may experience issues with some characters if the value is lower than .2.

I'm always glad to help out people seeking to improve so feel free to PM me anything in the future and I will try my best to respond promptly as best as I am able.
"We need other people in order to create the circumstances for the learning that we are here to generate" RIP Adam Yauch aka MCA
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Saikoro

Re: Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#6  August 06, 2012, 04:43:39 am
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Whoa!! Another Eternal Champions Stage!?

Keep them coming. Another release that proves why Mugen is so goddamned amazing. Thank you very much for the share!! :sugoi:
All of your Mugen Portrait needs may be found HERE.

Unstabler said, January 31, 2013, 04:11:33 pm
I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
GarchompMatt said, September 17, 2013, 12:37:33 am
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.

Tamez

Re: Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#7  August 06, 2012, 03:39:25 pm
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MaxBeta said, August 05, 2012, 07:05:09 pm
- You can't really settle for the following:
verticalfollow = 0
floortension = 0
...What I mean is, you need some values up there otherwise you may run into some visually odd character behavior once in a while like weird stiff movement and corner pop outs that will make mugen look glitchy.

MaxBeta said, August 05, 2012, 08:27:31 pm
it is somewhat a lazy fix because you end up with static non-moving background elements and incorrect parallax and even some issues with character movement. floortension = 0 is not the big issue here since even the original training stage specifies that, but there's a reason to why Elecbyte wanted you to "typically use .2 as default verticalfollow on normal-sized backgrounds" and increase that value in case your stage is taller and this is camera movement...otherwise you may experience issues with some characters if the value is lower than .2.

I'd like examples of where anything ever went strange with a 0 vf stage as I've used it before and have never run into any problems.  Character names at least please, if you can't recall the actual error situation. 

And it's not a "lazy fix" in this case.  He doesn't have the sprite coverage to have any vertical stage movement.  You can't tell him to make his vf .2 or higher without telling him to change his boundhigh from -25 to 0 or editing the sprites. 


Scorcher said, August 05, 2012, 07:51:02 pm
I set "verticalfollow = 0" and "floortension = 0" because it prevents the camera from moving vertically at all - just like in the original game. If i set this to any value, the camera starts moving in that direction and you can see beyond the background sprites.

Well, in the original game the camera did move vertically, but that was mostly likely possible due to the Sega CD usually running at a resolution lower than 320x240. 

Anyway, I don't think the drops are done quite right. 
The BGCtrl isn't the problem though, your sprite placement is. 

You have sprite 13,0 with two pixels of 0 color above a four pixel high drop. 
So that's 6 pixels. 
But you have -5 at the y start value.  So we can see a pixel of drop sitting at the top of the stage. 
If you only test your stage in fullscreen mode, it's an easy thing to miss.  Always test in both windowed and fullscreen. 
Now, keep in mind I never played the source game, so if it's supposed to be that way (small amount of water accumulating before being big enough to drop or something) then you can ignore that comment. 

Also looking at videos of the source I noticed the drops didn't fall as uniformly as yours. 
That's easy enough to change since you have quite a few drops setup already.  Just copy and paste more versions of the CTRL, and change some time values.  It'll make the stage feel better.  And you can still have more that one ID assigned to the CTRL, just try and make them be on opposite sides of the stage so them falling at the same time will be less easy to notice. 

Scorcher

Re: Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#8  August 06, 2012, 04:47:52 pm
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Tamez said, August 06, 2012, 03:39:25 pm
Anyway, I don't think the drops are done quite right. 
The BGCtrl isn't the problem though, your sprite placement is. 

You have sprite 13,0 with two pixels of 0 color above a four pixel high drop. 
So that's 6 pixels. 
But you have -5 at the y start value.  So we can see a pixel of drop sitting at the top of the stage. 
If you only test your stage in fullscreen mode, it's an easy thing to miss.  Always test in both windowed and fullscreen. 
Now, keep in mind I never played the source game, so if it's supposed to be that way (small amount of water accumulating before being big enough to drop or something) then you can ignore that comment. 

Also looking at videos of the source I noticed the drops didn't fall as uniformly as yours. 
That's easy enough to change since you have quite a few drops setup already.  Just copy and paste more versions of the CTRL, and change some time values.  It'll make the stage feel better.  And you can still have more that one ID assigned to the CTRL, just try and make them be on opposite sides of the stage so them falling at the same time will be less easy to notice. 

Yes, i am aware, that the drops are not placed at the same spots as in the game, but my first goal was to make them work at all. I'm not quite sure, if the have fixed locations or if they are totally random.
All in all the stage is far from accurate: The lightning in the background should be synced with the electric sparks and the parallax floor. I guess, that requires background controllers as well.

About the parallax scrolling:
MaxBeta said, August 05, 2012, 08:27:31 pm
Which tutorial did you follow?

About parallax on lores stages I can offer you these deltas:

delta = x.xxx, 1
xscale = 1, x.xxx

I followed VIB's parallax tutorial; it's quite useful but he doesn't really explain, how to calculate the delta for the floor and that's my main problem.

Tamez

Re: Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#9  August 06, 2012, 06:52:53 pm
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I don't think you got what I meant. 
Look at the parts I circled in green. 



The drops can always be seen at the top of the stage before they fall because you didn't start them off high enough. 
You'd need to start at x,-6. 
Though, that would also mean they'll end up falling down one pixel less unless you change the BGCtrl. 

XamΣeta

Re: Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#10  August 08, 2012, 03:29:11 pm
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Tamez said, August 06, 2012, 03:39:25 pm
I'd like examples of where anything ever went strange with a 0 vf stage as I've used it before and have never run into any problems.  Character names at least please, if you can't recall the actual error situation.

You know, I can't remember for sure but I know it happened...although, you being a more seasoned mugenite than me (lol how corny did that sound) you are probably right and I may have overlooked some other piece of coding that was causing the bugs when it happened...it may have been caused by [Bound] parameters for all I know...it was quite a while ago.
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Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 06:48:13 pm by CalmAxel

Scorcher

Re: Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#11  August 08, 2012, 04:57:34 pm
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I have updated the stage:

- fixed ceiling Waterdrops, made them fall less uniformly
- floor is animated now
- lightning in the background is synced with the electric sparks

The parallax effect is still the same (characters don't slide, but the upper floor looks detached) and i can't make it better, unless someone gives me advice how to do it properly. The funny thing is, i played the stage on the Sega CD again and noticed, that the characters slide and it doesn't look correct at all. Shame on you, Sega!

Tamez

Re: Eternal Champions CftDS - Belgrave Square Labs
#12  August 09, 2012, 03:13:56 am
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Drops look much better now. 

And yeah, sometimes source game parallax is wrong.  It happens. 
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