I don't know what to think anymore.Characters of perceived subpar quality exist. One side uses their knowledge of fighting gameplay and MUGEN coding to give them harsh criticism and put them down as horrible, the other merely plays with them and has fun with them for various reasons including the nature of the character itself and the crossover aspect that MUGEN is famous for.As I learned more about MUGEN, I slowly drifted to the criticizing side. Because I've learned a character can be made better. If I see a character that I like yet has perceived horrible gameplay, it bothers me until it's made better whether by my or others' hands. But now, I question the point of doing so. Because people don't seem to pay much attention to my balancing attempts.I must confess that someone set this off, made me post this because I have to know and get it off my chest.That someone is JudgeSpear.He recently posted a few new MUGEN videos (it's not a comeback, he just wanted to make them), and stated right away that he's using his old roster from 2006. Which means the likes of Yoma and Mario still have unbalanced gameplay.I asked him about it, and he said "I stopped the whole 'omg balance' nonsense long ago. Just focus on having fun with the engine instead of trying to preach ideals in my videos.".He's obviously not gonna change his mind so I didn't pursue it further, leaving with a warning on possible disagreeing parties.His response: "Honestly, I think it is time you stopped caring about what other people think and just do your own thing. You are still clinging to those old ideals that drove me away from MUGEN in the first place.".Yeah, he knows I've become one of said disagreeing parties. At least I didn't degenerate the comments section into a shoutfest. Ironically none of the other comments in his new videos mentioned anything about balance anyway, singling me out as a bitter has-been.Where did I go wrong? What the hell am I doing?Should I even bother to make MUGEN content anymore if no one's gonna care anyway...?
Different people like Mugen for different reasons. I am sure that the majority of players indeed doesn't care about balancement.
If people cared about balance, MvC2 wouldn't still be played. Despite the fact that it's unbalanced as fuck, it's fun. JoJo is probably one of the most broken games out there, and I fucking love it to death. It's fun as hell. Same applies for MUGEN.Do what you want. If you want to balance, it doesn't hurt to do some needed nerfs. Just observe what professional games do, and base off those, and usually you're off to a good start.If we valued balance to the point where everything has to be equal, then we'd only use KFM.
Balance is impossible in Mugen.But I would like SOME semblance of balance in what I play as which is why I can't completely agree with JS' "Balance be damned" approach.
There is a massive difference between something being balanced and something being coded well. A subpar character is not one that is too powerful. It's one that plays like shit. Moves break regularly, or simply by existing ruin a match.
I'v been a Marvel Vs Capcom fan ever since I got into fighting games, so I don't really care about balance. That being said, balance is something that one should always strive for. I simply put fun and depth above balance. That doesn't mean I think a game is better if it's unbalanced. The ideal game would be both very fun and very balanced. It just so happens that there are very few games like that.
I wouldn't say "very balanced," so much as "as balanced as is possible without things feeling like shit."
Just do what you want to do. Just, you know, don't make it outlandishly broken or something like that.And hey, if not that many people like it, you should at least get that sense of accomplishment; that you look at your finished project, and you say to yourself, "I MADE this happen." And it feels DAMN good.
Jesuszilla said, January 21, 2012, 06:02:40 amI wouldn't say "very balanced," so much as "as balanced as is possible without things feeling like shit."I think, in theory, it is possible for a game to be perfectly balanced, as well as perfectly fun. It would just be too damn hard, and would take too much time.But that's just my belief.
Simple Answer: Fuck OrochiGill JudgespearLonger Answer: You're never gonna get balance BUT HERE'S A CHECKLIST- if you find that you can get a long, ridiculously damaging combo with no effort, that's bad- conversely if you find that you cannot chain ANYTHING and your damage output is terrible, that's badJust find a happy medium somewhere. If all else fails, just have a rousing game of "PotS: The Fullgame"
Maybe my problem is that all of my recent contributions have just been updates to old stuff. Here I am insisting on my old favorites, while everyone else has long since moved on to newer characters.I really should make something new, something that no one else has made before. Problem is, it's easier to edit a character than to make one from scratch. And it doesn't help that my spriting skills stink.I'm so fucking lazy.....
Yeah, make us Psychopath KOF13 characters. Or alternatively, do as MelvanaInChains or Masa (I think) and make chars from obscure games only you know about.
QuoteJust focus on having fun with the engine insteadSaid as if it contradicted the concept of balancing, which is what these people (you know, them) actually think, that the definition of fun is no balance.I'm having fun balancing things. Argue with that
have fun and kickback. if whats fun for you is balancing, more power to you, but its something you dont need to tell someone twice. You can point out code errors, and bugs, and those, ofc should be fixed, but no one is forced to rebalance their stuff even when the stuff becomes glaringly worse because of it.Just do what is fun to you, and that will attract others likeminded. I dont know much of judgespear but I remember he did some readaptations of warner's with english soundpacks and the like, that was pretty cool of him to do and it probably benefitted a lot of people that enjoyed those characters.
Cybaster said, January 21, 2012, 11:43:44 amYeah, make us Psychopath KOF13 characters. Or alternatively, do as MelvanaInChains or Masa (I think) and make chars from obscure games only you know about.Aka be a MUGEN HipsterQuoteI dont know much of judgespear but I remember he did some readaptations of warner's with english soundpacks and the like,I woulda liked him better if he just left it at that. But then you have things like his tendency to be an egotistical prick and how back in the "balancing" days he would bash stuff that actually wasn't as bad as he made it out to be while using shit that was way worse BUT HEYAt least he wasn't as bad as the majority of the folks that registered on his forums. They were a lot worse.
I've come to accept the fact that perfect balance is nigh impossible to achieve. As long as everything I have feels and plays reasonably so, a sort of general standard, then I'm happy.The problem with Mugen is that there's so much content available, you'd go nuts trying to nail everything by yourself, especially with compilations. Is it wrong to seek balance?? Absolutely not!! One of the problems with balance is that not everyone looks at balance the same way.Perfect example: I have Kong's Silver Samurai. I could go on the rate-a-roster thread and say "I've got a balanced roster, here's who I have" and get slammed for Kong's work. To me, Kong's version is a bit more balanced and far more completed than Juan Carlos variant. A lengthy debate would most certainly follow. My point is I think Kong's release is balanced. Many others might disagree.Or you could just stick with that aforementioned "P.o.t.S. the Game." That sounds balanced to me.
Me?I will leave you with this:While it is true that most high quality characters are balanced, most balanced characters are not high quality.
