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Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side (Read 5889 times)

Started by Glisp, June 16, 2011, 02:08:09 am
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Glisp

Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#1  June 16, 2011, 02:08:09 am
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So yeah. Some of you may remember the first title, known simply as Eternal Champions, being rather.... well bad in some instances.
Most of the reviews have been pretty positive though over the years and it did sell 2 million units back in the day and got imported to the Japanese Mega Drive and is also on Japan's Virtual Console as well now. So, it was obviously popular enough to be put on the Japanese Mega Drive console and put on the Wii Virtual Console. (and this is considering that there weren't many people in Japan who had the MD.)

Some of you may know this already but..... there's a sequel, two really bad spin offs (both featured around what two of the characters did after winning the contest in the game.), a comic in Sonic the Comic, and even two gamebooks that you could play a game with while reading in a similar fashion to choose your own adventure. There was also a little pocket handheld game. (not a real game, kind of like one of those tiger electronics games with images burnt into the screen on that fill up with black liquid similar to a calculator when the character does something.)

So Sega had good faith in this franchise obviously. So much so, that the sequel was released for the Sega CD. You can view the opening FMV here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diB6w1mUuQw&feature=related
The game did a good job of making use of many of the Sega CD's features, including using the add-on's built-in Backup RAM for saving the unlockable characters you got for completing specific (and rather odd in some cases) tasks throughout the game. 

Some people mistaken the Sega CD sequel for a port of the first game. It's actually a semi-sequel with enhanced features over the original. Although the controls are still kind of stiff, compared to the first game's, they're improved some. (may be the controller I'm using though. I'm using a six button Genesis arcade pad. I should really get an arcade stick or fight pad for my Genesis...)

Voice samples are better and clearer for taunts. Some taunts have been replaced such as Jetta Maxx's "Pig" taunt being replaced by "Bastard" with a russian accent. (since she's supposed to be Russian.)
You can see all the taunts here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og6y50NPgS4&feature=channel_video_title
Oddly enough, Larcen's taunt seems to have only had enhanced quality. He still sounds like his Genesis version. (his moves are pretty much the same too, except that he got a new finisher.)

The game also features FMV sequences. While they seem rather grainy in appearance, compared to most other Sega CD FMVs, they look really good. They're also in full color as well. The CGI effects are a little bit dated, but this was 1995 which means animation wasn't as good and they needed to put their time and budget to working on other parts of the game.

There's some gameplay improvements too.
Remember how the AI loved to cheat and attack with special infinitely due to the fact that inner strength didn't affect them and using their attacks? Well, they fixed this and now they have a special move limit just like the player. However, there's some characters that will do moves the player isn't capable of, such as Blade, who apparently is quite fond of cheating while being played as by the CPU.

Another thing they did was lower the inner strength penalty. Now the loss of inner strength for using specials has been lowered some. This is both good and bad as while it helps you, it also means this affects the CPU opponents as well.

The game also introduced juggling to the series. While juggling is nothing new, the game does have a juggle limit. Which isn't in a whole lot of fighters, especially from back then, though I do know other ones have them. Basically, you are allowed to juggle your opponent but the juggle limit only allows one additional hit after knocking your opponent airborne. If you try to hit your opponent a second time, your attack will always miss, regardless of if it would have connected or not. (in other words you may have a direct hit but your attack pretty much passes through them, leaving them unharmed.)

In addition, the game's story is vastly expanded upon. I read some jerk's post in a thread a while back about the game's story being shitty. Well, the story is pretty crazy and deep in Challenge From the Dark Side. The Opening FMV in one of the links above is an abridged version of the game's story (with some okay but not excellent acting.)

 However, there's an option in the Access info section that displays more, including the birth of the Eternal Champion, and his brother the Dark Eternal Champion, plus another Eternal Champion that was slated to appear in the cancelled third game. (I'll talk about him later as I have contacts with the Executive Producer and Designer of the series, Michael Latham and know a lot about the third game that was cancelled)

You can see that here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMYNy6IjEWQ&feature=channel_video_title
Just a heads up, this is a 5:37 second long wall of text. That's how detailed the plot is in this game compared to the first game's.

Basically, the original game's tournament has been ending in a stalemate. Not affecting the future of humanity at all. Each time a champion is sent back to his or her time, time resets and nothing is changed. Turns out, another champion, the Dark Eternal Champion, has been preventing the Eternal Champion from collecting 4 key champions who are required for completing the contest: Dawson McShane (a Cowboy), Raven Gindar (a Voodoo Priestess), Riptide (a female pirate), and Ramses III (an Egyption Pharoah, who actually existed IRL. His date of death in game is shown incorrectly as 151 BC. His actually date of death is 1151 BC. This is listed correctly in the game's manual oddly enough.)

The Dark EC expended twice the power as the Eternal to speed ahead of him in his collection of champions, and hide the above four champions from him. However, the effort exhausted him and he was forced to remain in his Cimmerian Complex over looking the EC's tournament and the problem he had caused. However, once he regained his energy, watching stalemate after stalemate got boring, so he revealed himself and allowed the Eternal to collect the 4 champions he hid.

He also joined in the contest. He has the power to influence others with his evil, regardless of how good they are or not. Thus, this is why the Vendettas exist. He turned the code of Bushido from honor, into a game of blood and ego. In fact, using Vendettas during contest mode will actually affect both eternal Champions. The Eternal Champion will get weaker, and the Dark Eternal Champion will get stronger when you face them in a final battle. This also goes for Cinekills, another new finisher in the game.

I'll go over the rest of the game later, provided I get replies. This thread's pretty long and I'm pretty sure there will be some bashers to the games coming in. But anyway, there are several more enhancements to the game I haven't got to yet.
 

 

psychoripper

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#2  June 16, 2011, 02:35:49 am
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I figured you of all people would not only make a thread on this but post something that lengthy

"Bad News" Hoffmann

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#3  June 16, 2011, 08:35:28 pm
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There were good reasons why the series was discontinued 

psychoripper

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#4  June 16, 2011, 10:51:28 pm
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i havent tried the game but im pretty tempted to. And i had heard the prime reason that this game was discontinued was because sega already had one major fighting franchise under their belt

GalFord

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#5  June 16, 2011, 11:04:22 pm
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GBK667 said, June 16, 2011, 08:35:28 pm
There were good reasons why the series was discontinued

Actually, there wasn't.  The only reason it was discontinued is because rather than allowing two fighting games to debut for the US launch of the Saturn, Sega of Japan insisted that Virtua Fighter was the only one.  (Which, whilst I love VF.. the american audience at the time couldn't really give two shits about it)
So, VF was released alongside... Worldwide Soccer.  Yeah, that was so worth it. :P

I was annoyed at not seeing EC: The Final Chapter, mainly because it actually had a decent storyline... and likable characters.  Larcen FTW! ;)

CookDaXapper

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#6  June 17, 2011, 01:16:22 am
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challenge from the darkside was a superb title compared to what else was available at the time. this should be an interesting thread for us old folk. the youngsters here barely recall the genesis, and when they do their fondest memories are of sonic. but don't let that stop you, inform us!!! ;D

Glisp

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#7  June 17, 2011, 01:35:37 am
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GBK667 said, June 16, 2011, 08:35:28 pm
There were good reasons why the series was discontinued 

Likewise somebody hasn't paid much attention. Galford's post pretty much hit the nail on the head.

FYI, the graphics may look like shit and the controls may be stiff, but the original MD/Genesis title sold 2 million units and I haven't saw nearly as many bad reviews as I have good ones.

Usually, when somebody bashes EC it's because they were a retarded fool who went to contest mode right away. Thus, getting assraped trying to mash buttons when EC doesn't respond well to that. Then the complex isAI that's cheap as hell finhes them off, and they rage quit. The end. I swear, gamers back in the day had more patience than the ones of this time.

And don't even get me started on the dummies who tried to use a three button controller. XD EC's better plaryed with a six button one and pesonally, the controls still aren't the best with a typical Genesis/MD six button pad. I've heard people use fight pads for EC more than six button controllers.

Take it from me. I have a bad habit of pressing the controls too hard. I've just now started to notice EC responds better to light motions on the D-pad than hard pressing down ripping off the skin of your fingers motions. The controls still could have used some work, but the Sega CD sequel's controls were a little bit better. Not much, but definitely a little bit more manageable.

As for the graphics, most REAL gamers wouldn't give a shit about that sort of thing. =)

Oh by the way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD4ObZ0a--E&feature=channel_video_title
The combos are crazy in the EC games if you know your character really well. EC put the emphasis on knowing characters more than most other fighters usually do. That's why duel mode (and training room in the first EC) exist. They exist to help you learn the game so that you can win fights in contest mode.

EC's a game that's not pick up and play. The Sega CD sequel has three difficulty settings:
Neophyte, Warrior, and Champion.

-Neophyte mode's pretty cool. It's still pretty difficult, so you may not want to jump into it right away until you practice in duel mode. However, it's VERY managable compared to the other two difficulties. Also, on Neophyte mode, the final opponent is always the Eternal Champion. Dark Eternal Champion does not appear on this difficulty. Also, rather than going back two fighters after losing to one of them on Neophyte, you're given 9 credits. If you die, you can choose to continue, then the game allows you to pick a fighter after continuing. When you run out of credits, you are greeted by an FMV of the EC teleporting your character back to his or her death and he says "I'm sorry, but I have no choice but to return you to your death."

-Warrior mode is kind of the equivalent to normal mode. Great if you've managed to beat Neophyte  flawlessly or nearly flawlessly several times in a row. Dark EC also appears in here after fighting the Eternal Champion. Enemy AI's are also slightly tougher than Neophyte mode. Also, the number of credits you have have been lowered to about 3 or so (been a while since I played on warrior, so I'm not sure.)

-Champion mode is the most difficult level to play on. This mode is near identical to how Contest mode in EC1 plays. The CPU is very cheap, blocks a lot, and employs cheese tactics, so playing as a broken secret character such as Blast, Chin Wo, Senator, Crispy the Chicken, or Hooter the Owl is a good idea if you want to beat it easily. Hooter is especially useful on this mode. The only character he has trouble with is Slash.

As for other stuff in Champion mode, you get some nice little storyline related things. Beating the Eternal Champion on this difficulty will make Dark EC appear and kidnap the Eternal Champion. Then you'll get to play as the Eternal Champion! Be warned though, he's not like his boss version and cannot resurrect. He transforms by pressing quarter circle forward plus a button. Tiger form is VERY useful here. You get Tiger form by pressing Qcf + B on your controller. The move Tiger form has by pressing X+Y+Z simultaneously is a speed booster move. This move will speed up the EC in everyway. Even while being thrown he's faster.

A nice little cheese combo with EC 1 is activating speed boost, getting in close to the opponent when they have their guard down, and spamming them with the C button kicks while in speed boost. This allows you to deal a ton of damage.
If you win against the Dark EC on Champion mode, you're greeted with the game's best ending. It not only shows the Dark EC and the EC destroying eachother, but if you wait after the credits, you'll get a sneak peak at how the story for the third game was supposed to play out.

Btw, I know how the third game was supposed to end btw. I have contacts with the series' Executive Producer and Designer, Michael Latham. ;)
Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 01:44:49 am by Glisp

Sentenza

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#8  June 17, 2011, 05:09:58 pm
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Are you going to tell us about the third eternal champion?
You're not worth my disgust!

GalFord

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#9  June 17, 2011, 08:32:59 pm
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I would have liked to have known the rest of the story.  I gathered there were going to be more challengers as detailed by the FMV clip after the ending on Champion Difficulty.  Dammit.. I have such an urge to get out my old MegaCD to play this again.  I never really did finish my FAQ for it. >_<

Glisp

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#10  June 17, 2011, 08:38:11 pm
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The game itself, or the third being known as Chaos Eternal Champion?

I'll just play it safe and discuss the Chaos EC. Now, Chaos Eternal Champion's existence is hinted at various points in Challenge From the Dark Side. The most obvious one, being the storyline option of the main menu's access info option. The next reference is in the secret character, Thanatos' Biography. Chaos is connected to Thanatos' death. Thanatos was the greek god of death and dwelled in the underworld with his brother hypnos (god of sleep).  In Thanatos' bio, Thanatos couldn't describe him upon encounter during a routine soul pick up.

The info says that Chaos was neither good nor evil but an indescribable in between. This power overwhelmed Thanatos and turned him into a human warlock known as Vespian with a sidekick called Hooter the Owl. Where he was subsequently killed by witch hunters as he ended up in 1692 Salem. (hence him using edited Xavier sprites.)

In Thanatos' ending (warning spoilers ahead), Apparently, the god of time, Cronos, had been severely injured by Chaos (which was not ever referred to as Chaos in any part of Thanatos' story but it's obvious it was him due to the neither good nor evil thing.) and needed a replacement. He called upon Raven Gindar originally but since Raven was the Eternal Champion's "companion" she couldn't leave his side. So instead, Thanatos was given Cronos' job as god of time. While it didn't give back his original post, he was at least a god again.

Now, regarding the third game:

Basically, the Dark Eternal Champion decides to get his own champions known as "Infernals". The Infernals are important. Each one is connected to the other character of the same timeline in some way. Though, they have a much darker part of each character's story. Being the infernals, they are evil. However, according to Michael Latham, there's not clear black and white.

Each infernal and Eternal may represent the side of good or evil,  but with how the third game was supposed to work, every character had potential to go to one of three sides for their endings: Dark, Light, and Chaos. Characters were connected in some way. Like, Larcen and Shadow are connected as a key nexus in the story. Xavier, Thanatos, and Hooter are also connected, but separately from Shadow and Larcen.

So, if Larcen turns evil in his ending, (each character was supposed to have three endings. 30 in all plus the secret best ending.) Shadow would turn to the side of Chaos.

Unfortunately, I don't know the identities of the Infernals yet. Mike Latham has not told me yet sadly.

Chaos is supposed to be part of a special fatality in the game called "removal from timeline". This fatality basically creates a black hole that kills off both the Eternal and Infernal from the connected timeline or something like that. This messes with the game's storyline and devastates the time period the connected Eternal and Infernal champions were from.

As for Chaos himself, he's the ultimate evil. He makes Dark Champion pretty much seem tame compared to him. What makes Chaos Eternal Champion so sinister is that he pretends to be neither good nor evil. However, his true intentions are indeed evil. His goal is to destory the other two champions, cause an imbalance in the time stream, and destroy time itself.

The Chaos Eternal Champion's abilities are based upon the elements of the Chinese mythology.  Fire(his default form), Earth, Metal, Water, and Wood. Mike Latham also created two more forms for him: Power, and Emptiness (Emptiness being his last.).

Unlike the other two champions, Chaos' body is solid as opposed to being made up of energy. His body reflects each element in their purest form this way. So for example, fire form would have molten cracks all across his body.

Chaos also has no real costume. While the other two champions have costumes made out of solid material, Chaos' costume is made up of energy. His costume also changes depending upon what time period his opponent is from. Each outfit represents a Southeast Asian warrior costume of whatever time period his opponent is from. When he changes forms, rather than turning into an orb like the other two Eternals, Chaos changes into a black hole which will appear as a big drain to his opponent if they happen to be in the way. Not quite sure if this means it saps their inner strength or saps health. I'd need to ask Mike.

The final battle between the Chaos EC and the other Eternals would have been epic. It had the Eternal Champion and Dark Eternal Champion teaming up to face Chaos. First up is the Eternal. He beats Chaos and Chaos comes back to life and kills the Eternal. Then next up is the Dark Champion. Dark Ec fights him and the same thing happens.  Then the universe starts to collapse. However, there has to be a balance so both Dark Champion and the Eternal come back to life for the last time and merge to form Unity Eternal Champion.

Unity has the power of both Champions. If the player won the fight with Chaos, they got the best ending possible. Chaos gets destoryed and now there is enough energy to return each Eternal and Infernal back to their own timelines. Then you get to see what each champion and infernal did with their lives before they died. Then,  Unity returns to 9999 A.D. and separates into the Dark and Light ECs again. However, a part of the other is left in the other champion so neither one is completely good nor evil anymore. Thus restoring the balance and fixing the damaged timeline.

If the player loses as Unity EC, Chaos destroys the universe. The End. Big Bang becomes Big Fizzle, etc.

GalFord

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#11  June 17, 2011, 10:25:43 pm
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Well damn... that's made me lament the lack of the third game even more now. :/   I suppose that even though there's no chance of seeing the the Final Chapter, at least it explains things about the timeline.

One thing I did enjoy about the series, was the in-depth bios that the characters had.  I mean, it's not everyday that martial arts like Pencak Silat, Hung Gar Kung Fu or Kajukenbo tend to get used. :)

"Bad News" Hoffmann

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#12  June 17, 2011, 11:07:07 pm
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Silat and Hung Car got used in the quite mediocre MK Deadly Alliance and Deception games btw


...but they werent really accurate there..

Slamtastic

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#13  June 18, 2011, 12:23:25 am
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GBK667 said, June 17, 2011, 11:07:07 pm
Silat and Hung Car got used in the quite mediocre MK Deadly Alliance and Deception games btw


...but they werent really accurate there..

I liked how in those games Sub-Zero had "Shotokan" style.

Glisp

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#14  June 18, 2011, 12:39:07 am
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GalFord said, June 17, 2011, 10:25:43 pm
Well damn... that's made me lament the lack of the third game even more now. :/   I suppose that even though there's no chance of seeing the the Final Chapter, at least it explains things about the timeline.

One thing I did enjoy about the series, was the in-depth bios that the characters had.  I mean, it's not everyday that martial arts like Pencak Silat, Hung Gar Kung Fu or Kajukenbo tend to get used. :)

I've actually got fangame plans for the Final Chapter. Though, MUGEN doesn't really have everything. 1.0 supports some EC features such as stage interaction and true rotating palletes. However, the massive amount of things that are needed makes using MUGEN difficult. The game's supposed to have alternate endings and paths based upon the choices you make. Stage looks and character costumes also varied because of this as well. So it would be too complex for MUGEN most likely. I wonder what Fenix and Bennu can do in this department.... Seemed to turn out really good with SORR v5 in the end. Though, if Bennu and Fenix are used, chances are Online won't be able to be supported due to massive lag that caused Online to be scrapped in SORR v5. (Yes, online was planned and implemented at one point but scrapped due to lag that wasn't fixable.)

GalFord

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#15  June 18, 2011, 02:11:26 am
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Awesome ideas, but yes.. quie possibly too hard to implement with the MUGEN engine.  Still, a dream is still a dream, whether it's realised or not.

psychoripper

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#16  June 18, 2011, 11:20:36 pm
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i always was in awe as to how vioent some of the finishing moves in the game got

CookDaXapper

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#17  June 19, 2011, 06:47:51 am
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now that WOULD make for great gaming! thanks for the info and fond memories.

it makes  you wonder though; the things that can be done now with cel shaded polys, the entire stage, traps and all could be rendered and the game would LOOK better than the old cut scenes, and we would have interactive backgrounds. (like street fighter 4 failed to have.) we would actually have our old "seeeeeyyy-gaaaaa" back. but dreams are just that,..... PEACE, and thanks.
 

Lasombra Demon

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#18  June 19, 2011, 07:29:01 am
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Mace the Dark Age already had 3D interactive dark themed enviroments... about what, 14 years ago?

So yeah, a new EC would be kickass. Any chances on a third party picking up the IP?
For my latest stage pack release, go here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xjiOk6eB9k

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Glisp

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#19  June 19, 2011, 06:19:10 pm
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I don't know officially. Many groups have forgotten the series because it was so long ago. Plus, you have all the people who negatively look at it to think about as well.

Back in the day, not as many people really cared about the graphics and stiff controls because it was all too common with fighters of the day it seems. Nowadays, most fighters have smoother controls and better graphics. If the series were revived officially, chances are the new public may recieve it differently.

Plus, you have to also keep in mind that Sega of Japan was determined to silence the third game. Chances are Sega of Japan would try to interfere again. Ever since the Saturn lost them a great deal of money in the US, they've been kind of bitter with SOA and a few other branches. So chances are, they wouldn't give them a chance to make a better game than them unless they were lucky, third party or not.

Challenge From the Dark Side didn't have a Japanese release. By the time Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side was released, the Sega Saturn was already out in Japan and the Sega Mega CD, 32X, and Mega Drive had all three been discontinued due to lack of sales since their respective launches. (Sega of Japan never really had a solid advertizing campaign for the Mega Drive and its add-ons. The US and a UK did though, which is one of the reasons why they did so well. Well, more so the Mega Drive/Genesis. The Sega CD was semi-successful. The 32X bombed. Another reason why SOJ is mad at SOA.) 

Bastard Mami

Re: Eternal Champions: Challenge From the Dark Side
#20  June 19, 2011, 07:22:07 pm
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interactive stages are overrted, ig anything they will get on the way of heated playing.
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