The Mugen Fighters Guild - Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -

JustNoPoint

Re: Street Fighter

#81 March 25, 2014, 10:44:32 pm

Yeah. I don't see an issue with SF EX mechanics either. Even if it's not canon.

Basically from SF1, all versions of 2, 3, SFA, SF4, and EX

Renzo F

Re: Street Fighter

#82 March 25, 2014, 10:48:38 pm

Now that you mention SF1, we should definitely implement pressure-sensitive attacks

I think once we finally settle on a system we should take an already made character from POTS, JMM, or someone like that. Strip them of their mechanics and put these mechanics in their place as a quick test run. So we can see if we actually like all the systems we vomited into this blender!

AlexSin

Re: Street Fighter

#84 March 26, 2014, 02:34:15 pm

Can we discuss about intro/win/lose poses?

I like the SvC way of making everyone interact with everyone; intro pose, dialogue, fight. But there could be another dialogue when you win, à la (<-correct me if I'm wrong) SF3.

FeLo_Llop

Re: Street Fighter

#85 March 26, 2014, 05:36:39 pm

¡Ni p*ta ni santa! ¡Digo!

- Ink: There's not enough icon for what I feel right now, so :3 !!!!

- JnP & Balthazar & Renzo: Sounds pretty good. I'd say: keep the dash here, since there has been like in...2 titles now. It's a bit risky keeping this out, since jumping for evading a hadoken or tiger shot is kinda...boring. I would also say that, aside dashing, putting an evasive dash(as in SFxT) OR something like a Roll? Some characters can evade the projectiles with certain movements(thanks to the timing) as Cammy or Claw. Zangief can destroy projectiles with that big-blue-BEAR-hand he has. So, the rolling can take the place of the SFEX sidestep...as a way to: a) making the combat something more dinamic or ; b) an evasive manneuver against projectiles. Also, I think that putting for example BLOCK for Ryu and Parry(whatever) for Ken, and etc, could make some quite differences between similar characters. Ryu is more(canon wise) focused, strategic fighter than Ken, who's more dinamic...

- Alex S.: I think the same as you, but maybe we have to think about the gameplay before thinking on that. Also, I'm not sure how many "special vs" are allowed in mugen.

By the way: Next portrait is Guy's. Also, mixed two Urien's artworks for hims. Wasn't happy with Gill's artwork so I had to look for a fitting pose. I hate bodybuilders. You can find a lot of HORRIBLE things google-ing them T___T!!!

I swear there was something cool here!!

MS_Todd

Re: Street Fighter

#86 March 26, 2014, 08:29:19 pm

Creative Mastermind

First of all; great idea! Now i have some notes related to i read from the previous posts;

- No charging. I hate that so i'm glad to hear you don't gonna use it.
- I was thinking about the bosses matches, and i think Shin Akuma must be the final boss representing SFII/SSFIIT, and Shin Bison as the final boss representing the Alpha series, so you have the most powerful incarnation of those final bosses.
- the idea of a inmediate wake up from throw moves sounds nice but i think should be depending of wich weak or strong kind of grapple move is.
- EX series chars, gonna participate?
- A Rainbow Mika portrait? :3

That's all for now. I'll an eye on this because it sounds pretty awesome.
Greetings!

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/25/86ty.png

The 3 years hiatus is over.

JustNoPoint

Re: Street Fighter

#87 March 27, 2014, 03:59:51 pm

All right. Looks like we need to get something moving on this. Once some sort of actual progress is made we should get more feedback and assistance (in theory

)

- No charging. I hate that so i'm glad to hear you don't gonna use it.
What sort of charging do you mean? Like KOF power charging? Charge characters like Guile will still be the same.

- I was thinking about the bosses matches, and i think Shin Akuma must be the final boss representing SFII/SSFIIT, and Shin Bison as the final boss representing the Alpha series, so you have the most powerful incarnation of those final bosses.
Yeah if we do a multitude of bosses as you make your way through the game I agree.

Boss order would be fight some SF1 character then Sagat
Fight SFA characters then fight Bison
fight some SF2 characters then Balrog, Vega, Sagat, Bison, Akuma
fight SF4 characters then Seth
fight SF3 characters then Gill
afterwards maybe Pandora

- the idea of a inmediate wake up from throw moves sounds nice but i think should be depending of wich weak or strong kind of grapple move is.
Well we'll be using the 2 button press input for throws. 2P, 2K, and/or LP + LK so it'll be hard to distinguish a weak throw from a strong throw

- EX series chars, gonna participate?
Yes, hopefully if this project gains momentum

So are we going to start with Ryu? If so let's figure out which Ryu should be reconstructed into the mechanics we've listed. Once we get the mechanics solidified it'll be easier to switch and alter mechanics as we decide how it should truly play.

@Renzo F:
@Niitris:
@Alex Sinigaglia:
are you up for coding this 1st character just for mechanics testing purposes? I will get on it if you don't wish to do so. Right now I'm just trying to keep momentum by making sure the project is moving =p It's easy to talk and make wish lists. Someone has to do the work though.

Do you guys have a chat option and/or google drive? We should add each other to spread the workload. Once something looks like it might really come from this I'll give it it's own full game board to help us organize our tasks and thoughts better as well.

Renzo F

Re: Street Fighter

#88 March 27, 2014, 04:06:34 pm

Sure, I would love to make a return to coding. I'll just make a warning right now: I'm going on vacation for two weeks so I won't be so active on the forum.

I have a Gmail account, I'll send the details via PM.

JustNoPoint

Re: Street Fighter

#89 March 27, 2014, 04:16:55 pm

That's fine. We can still figure out who we want to use. I haven't looked off hand but is there a CVS Ryu with color separation? I know JMM has a Ken with one.

If we use POTS's Ryu his sff and air will need to be fixed as the axis is off and there was no CLSN viewer for SF games back then. Though POTS probably got them pretty close with his research.

What other CVS Ryus should we possibly use?

We should also start putting together the many pieces of coding for the mechanics. I believe most of these have been given out in the forum. I'll hunt them up and we can make sure they are the most accurate version for what we wish to do.

MS_Todd

Re: Street Fighter

#90 March 27, 2014, 04:17:15 pm

Creative Mastermind

Just No Point said, March 27, 2014, 03:59:51 pm

- No charging. I hate that so i'm glad to hear you don't gonna use it.
What sort of charging do you mean? Like KOF power charging? Charge characters like Guile will still be the same.

- the idea of a inmediate wake up from throw moves sounds nice but i think should be depending of wich weak or strong kind of grapple move is.
Well we'll be using the 2 button press input for throws. 2P, 2K, and/or LP + LK so it'll be hard to distinguish a weak throw from a strong throw

First of all, thanks you for your answers.

- I mean like KOF power charging. In my opinion it cut the speed and the emotion of the match, and also leaves without any defense against rival's attack.

- So, for example, after a Zangief applies an Atomic Buster (Final/Ultimate) the rival character would wake up inmediatly? :/

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/25/86ty.png

The 3 years hiatus is over.

JustNoPoint

Re: Street Fighter

#91 March 27, 2014, 04:19:28 pm

Oh, I see. No. I don't see us allowing the get up attack after a special or super throw. Just the basic throws. If they could be used against special throws it'd put those throw characters at a huge disadvantage IMO

AlexSin

Re: Street Fighter

#92 March 27, 2014, 05:11:36 pm

I would really like to join in this project, but with chat option what do you mean? I'm also not registered in Google +, but I'm very active here so there's that.

Balthazar

Re: Street Fighter

#93 March 27, 2014, 05:48:29 pm

Good job on keeping things moving

Ryu is probably the template character of choice, yeah.
Also, what style of fx/sfx are we thinking of? Most likely CvS2 hitsparks and sounds? Though I would actually suggest looking for something fresh as to make them not look like your typical Pots/Jmorphman characters. They need to stand out.
Maybe even like some flashy/filtered versions of classic SF2 effects?

Also. Super Recovery. Yeah, let that sink in of a while. Basicly it might be cool to have a super version of a fall recovery/counter move for each character. Let's say, Ryu gets Shoryuken'd, he falls through the air. You imput your Super Recovery.
Boom. Ryu, upon touching the ground, rolls forward and towards the opponent and BAM whips out a rising spin kick. If it connects, he goes into a powerful Tatsumaki. Basicly, this:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

With these (as well as the throw recoveries/counters) we can get some really unique stand-out moves for each character, that can have different values and properties, but still fall within the same general system.
The command could be down+2P when you have a superbar?

Lastly I was initially going to vote against EX-specials, but some characters really need them due to having few specials to begin with.
Though we could make an effort of making sure every EX special really adds something, and is not just a more hits-more powerful version of the bare Special (EX Tatsumaki being the Shinkuu Tatsumaki that stays in place and hits on both sides of Ryu, thats a good one).

Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 05:53:10 pm by Balthazar

FeLo_Llop

Re: Street Fighter

#94 March 27, 2014, 05:51:46 pm

¡Ni p*ta ni santa! ¡Digo!

I'm about to go(a class), so a suggestion...THIS Ryu:

http://armentis.deviantart.com/art/ryu-sheet-343826663

It was sprited by Armentis from SF3. There are some things that need fixes, and he also told me that sometimes, there are some belts which doesn't share the same colour.

I also recommend visiting his DA, where he has more sheets:

http://armentis.deviantart.com/gallery/36250405

(don't use that Sagat!! We can use Chuchoryu's+Chamat's just downgrading the colour count!)

EDIT: Once fixed Ryu's belt thing, making a CS from there is super-easy

I swear there was something cool here!!

Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 05:57:01 pm by FeLo_Llop

Balthazar

Re: Street Fighter

#95 March 27, 2014, 05:54:47 pm

Why not use his Sagat? I think it looks pretty sexy and would probably fit better then a downgraded SF3 Sagat.

JustNoPoint

Re: Street Fighter

#96 March 27, 2014, 06:03:06 pm

Aside for there being more work to do with these in aligning if there are a lot of missing animations we'll really need you spriters more than ever! But if you're up for it I don't mind. Maybe after the sff is finished we can get someone to color separate?

For the beta to test the mechanics we still want to use POTS Ryu. It won't be final but we really need something to make sure we like what we have and Ryu's a good choice.

@ super recoveries-- they sound good! And of course as an option they could be turned off but if we like them the game will be made with them in mind on default

Posted: March 27, 2014, 06:21:27 pm
Oh and @Balthazar: I'm with you on the graphics used with specials and fx. I too prefer old school graphics like used in sfa and sf3 but we both know that we'll have to compromise for effects with transparancies and other things more akin to cvs2 :p

If it was up to me we'd be sticking with sfa graphics/sprites XD

Mixing is a good idea. @Judas: do you have suggestions? Aren't you working on some effects that could be used here as well?

A$AP Buckus

Re: Street Fighter

#97 March 27, 2014, 06:21:32 pm

^First attempt ain't so bad......

I also think the Sagat sheet looks pretty good. Feilong looks good as well. The Ryu/Akuma sheets are missing a lot of frames/anims to be usable in a game like this.

What about a tag mode? Or will this game focus on 1 on 1 fighting?

POTS Ryu has the gloves separated, but there is a missing shade on them. It's not that important as it's only a pixel in some frames.

Balthazar

Re: Street Fighter

#98 March 27, 2014, 06:24:10 pm

POTS Ryu does sound like the best choice to start with, if Armentis's Ryu sprites are really preferred, we would indeed need to fill in the missing animations (which sounds tedious but hey).

Mind if I whip up a quick movelist for Ryu?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
f+SP = Dash Punch (Solar Plexus Strike)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Guard Break Attack = Collarbone Breaker (Overhead Punch),
Zero Counter Punch = Fist of the Wind (his Focus Attack in SF4),
Zero Counter Kick = spinning roundhouse sweep,
Punch/forward Throw = Shoulder Toss,
Kick/backwards Throw = Kick Throw ( c'mon the same one he always has),
Throw Counter = spinning roundhouse sweep (?),
Super Fall Recovery = Rolling Tatsumaki,
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hadouken
- QCF+P ~projectile.
[EX] Shakunetsu Hadouken
- QCF+2P ~projectile ~burns ~knocks down.
Shoryuken
- DP+P ~rising anti-air ~invincibility on start-up ~knocks down.
[EX] Shinkuu Shoryuken (?)
- DP+2P ~rising anti-air ~invincibility on start-up ~knocks down.
Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku
- (air OK) QCB+K ~low (as in the altitude) invincibility on start-up ~knocks down.
[EX] Shinkuu Tatsumaki
- (air OK) QCB+2K ~vacuums ~knocks down after last hit.
Horse Kick
- QCF/HCF+K ~knocks away.
[EX] EX Horse Kick
- QCF/HCF+2K ~knocks away and wall-bounces.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
[Super 1] Shinkuu Hadouken
- QCFx2+P ~projectile.
[MAX Super 1] Metsu Hadouken
- QCFx2+2P ~projectile.
[Super 2] Metsu Shoryuken
- QCFx2+K ~rising anti-air, invincibility on start-up.
[MAX Super 2] Shin Shoryuken
- QCFx2+2K ~FIST OF THE GODS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

How does that sound/feel? I left out the Denjin Hadouken...I don't know why? I guess I tried to make his movelist a little smaller.
I kinda threw MAX supers in there...they would be full superbar + low health? Kind of to fill the void of Ultra's (Supers should be as damaging/impressing as they were back in the SSF2T days, I feel).
That said, how about if, similar to the pre-fight Super Combo selection, you would choose which of your Specials would be EX-enabled?
So, you would never have access to all of your special moves being EX-able. You would choose one or two and go with those for that fight.

I would ignore Tag stuff for now and base it on 1-vs-1 fighting, yeah. We should keep things as down-to-earth as possible for now.

Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 06:37:41 pm by Balthazar

Niitris

Re: Street Fighter

#99 March 27, 2014, 07:05:05 pm

Damn, I lost my post 3 times, finally finished.

FeLo_Llop said, March 22, 2014, 07:01:14 pm

That's a good new ! Which characters do you like? I'm preparing some CS ready for the project.

I don't really have any preferences. I guess the starter characters (Ryu, Chunli, Zangief, etc...) for the sake of showing quick progress.

A$AP Buckus said, March 27, 2014, 06:21:32 pm

What about a tag mode? Or will this game focus on 1 on 1 fighting?

1-on-1 would be the point of emphasis for now. I wouldn't rule out dramatic battle somewhere down the line

Lost_Avenger said, March 22, 2014, 11:50:19 am

-start with a small roster and work up to more later. You don't want to get half way and your project die near the home stretch due to the lack of drive

This is rather important to emphasize. Being SF and all, we can actually get away with a 10 character effort the first time around (before the inevitable Super Hyper Ultra versions).

Lost_Avenger said, March 22, 2014, 11:50:19 am

-don't add extra chains/target combos. SFXTekken sucked. Don't repeat the awkward feel

This... I like target combos but not everyone should have them, nor should there be too many since SF is a fundamentals fighting game that emphasizes spacing and range (more so than other fighters). Adding TCs would be counterproductive to that endeavor.

Balthazar said, March 27, 2014, 05:48:29 pm

Also, what style of fx/sfx are we thinking of? Most likely CvS2 hitsparks and sounds? Though I would actually suggest looking for something fresh as to make them not look like your typical Pots/Jmorphman characters. They need to stand out.

Also this... CvS effects don't have certain details that a lot of the CPS fighters had (shock sprites anyone).

Balthazar said, March 25, 2014, 09:51:21 pm

No, it didn't have it. And it wouldn't be feasable in a 2D mugen game anyway

Closest thing to a sidestep in a 2D fighter was KoF '99 evade (it was too slow), but that's for another discussion and doesn't matter in this regards anyway.

Just No Point said, March 27, 2014, 03:59:51 pm

Do you guys have a chat option and/or google drive?

I've never been big on those kind of things, but I guess I could make one just for this

I could start on any characters. I'm not the absolute best coder around, but I can get the job done. Only issue I have is gathering material to be faithful to CLSNs and the likes. I could use approximations but I'd rather not do that.

One last thing, I find it odd that Metsu Hadouken in CvS2 (Evil Ryu) was Denjin Hadouken without the Level charging.

Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 07:08:32 pm by Niitris

AlexSin

Re: Street Fighter

#100 March 27, 2014, 07:10:50 pm

Niitris said, March 27, 2014, 07:05:05 pm

Only issue I have is gathering material to be faithful to CLSNs and the likes.

Me too.
Must we use accurate hitboxes from games? Or can we make some that look ok (and maybe better)?
---
Ah, I found the answer:

JNP said:

Now, we don't have to be 100% accurate on everything since this will not be a remake of a particular game. The data mining will be for a base. CVS2 doesn't have a hitbox viewer so most CLSN data will come from other games and tweaked as needed for this one.

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