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Blazblue characters? (Read 4385 times)

Started by Toshio Tenma, June 30, 2011, 02:18:46 pm
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Toshio Tenma

Blazblue characters?
#1  June 30, 2011, 02:18:46 pm
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Alright, there is a lot of complaint about Blazblue characters released recently as many said, they just have the sprites and no real Blazblue characters. However, what is necessary to make a Blazblue character look like the original port and being convincing?
-Toshio Tenma

Rajaa Retired

Re: Blazblue characters?
#2  June 30, 2011, 02:32:31 pm
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You have to play Blazblue and study Blazblue. You have to become one with Blazblue.

Kreuzer

Re: Blazblue characters?
#3  June 30, 2011, 03:00:47 pm
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There are few BlazBlue characters areound, but I dont remember that any of them were good.  :'(

Quote
what is necessary to make a Blazblue character look like the original port and being convincing?

Skills.

Duos.act

Re: Blazblue characters?
#4  June 30, 2011, 03:03:40 pm
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Playing the source game for starters, but that's too hard for poor Little Jimmy. :(
Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 04:19:31 pm by MC-Truth

Toshio Tenma

Re: Blazblue characters?
#5  June 30, 2011, 03:03:55 pm
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Rajaa said, June 30, 2011, 02:32:31 pm
You have to play Blazblue and study Blazblue. You have to become one with Blazblue.
You could consider a better explanation than that, knowing you're a skilled mugen maker. That game is not avaiable on my area, so consider giving more details as possible. This is a topic which could help other mugen makers with the replies, so I ask you to not give needless comical relief, thanks in advance.
-Toshio Tenma

Kreuzer

Re: Blazblue characters?
#6  June 30, 2011, 03:09:07 pm
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Well there is BlazzBlue PC on Torrentz somwhere in Internet.

I think that best creator for BB chars would be Muteki or Ukege, 'cause they both have experiance with Hi-res characters.

Rajaa Retired

Re: Blazblue characters?
#7  June 30, 2011, 03:10:38 pm
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Toshio said, June 30, 2011, 03:03:55 pm
Rajaa said, June 30, 2011, 02:32:31 pm
You have to play Blazblue and study Blazblue. You have to become one with Blazblue.
You could consider a better explanation than that, knowing you're a skilled mugen maker. That game is not avaiable on my area, so consider giving more details as possible. This is a topic which could help other mugen makers with the replies, so I ask you to not give needless comical relief, thanks in advance.
I wasn't being comical. It is necessary to play Blazblue and study it to make an accurate Blazblue character.

Study the mechanics like you would any other game. There are tons of things around that explain systems of various fighting games, including Blazblue. If you aren't willing to do tedious research and experimentation, then you can't create an accurate Blazblue character.

GOH

Re: Blazblue characters?
#8  June 30, 2011, 03:22:48 pm
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Not to mention, even if you want to give a customized gameplay to your character, you need to learn basic gameplay notions. People like to say that X character behaves that way because it is custom. There are certain things that shouldn't happen when playing with a character, and all of that can be avoided with a careful study and testing prior to the release.

Foobs

Re: Blazblue characters?
#9  June 30, 2011, 04:03:40 pm
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Cybaster

Re: Blazblue characters?
#10  July 01, 2011, 01:24:18 am
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- First, you don't want a BB char to be your first character : too many complex things to deal with for a 1st char, even if you go for something custom that doesn't have all the features.
- Play BB, and a lot. Even if going for a custom char at the end, you need to get the basics right, so that the character plays at least "a little" like the original one. What would you think if someone created a Ryu character without having played Street Fighter a single time in his life, having Ryu not have any Shoryuken, have tatsumaki go only vertical, and have a Hadouken which is pink and heart shaped, bouncing on the ground like a Mario projectile, all that while saying "somehow accurate to SF with a few liberties taken".
- Play BB, and a lot. Hell, the game is on PC, no reason not to have it if you're creating one for Mugen. Count ticks, compare the moves you're coding in Mugen to the original ones in the real game. Basically, you code a move in Mugen, then go play the game to see how much damage it deals, how far it sends the opponent, what combos you can deal before and after, etc. Try to stay close to the source somehow.
- Read about BB, a lot. Obviously not everybody is a pro player and knows everything one has to know about each move of a character, so go on FAQs and read them to know about particular properties of some moves, and what setups they can lead to, etc.

This obviously doesn't apply to BB only, but to all fighting games. ARE YOU LISTENING TO ME, MVC CHAR MAKERS !?

Vans

Re: Blazblue characters?
#11  July 01, 2011, 01:46:47 am
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It depends on the person, playing the game like crazy will help but it won't determine if your conversion will be good or not. I know people who boast about the time they've spent with a game and assume things that don't even happen in the game.

Likewise, I know amazing coders that  assume things that never happen in the game because they never play it.

You need both, game experience and coding experience. The more coding experience you have means you will have a way easier time identifying systems and mechanics, and the more you play the game the more you will understand the way moves work and why they were designed that way.

Knowing a lot about a game takes time, study and effort. But if you have already ¨mastered¨ one game it's easier to master another.

About the Blazblue characters, I'll be honest on this one.

The only somewhat feasible characters for conversion are Ragna, Makoto and Jin. It is impossible to properly convert a Blazblue character, and I'm talking fundamental levels here, MUGEN can't even handle the resolution properly.

And the current attempts have been completely piss-poor in execution, and I don't blame them, even converting an easy character like Ragna takes an amazing amount of coding proficiency, and even then, you'll be missing things.

One easy example of this: Blazblue characters blink. This is something you code at the very beginning, and I've yet to see an outside attempt with a proper blink code.

Question answered?
Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 01:50:17 am by Vans

Cybaster

Re: Blazblue characters?
#12  July 01, 2011, 01:51:53 am
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One will probably ask you specifics about what things would be missing exactly, what are the problems with resolution, what are the things which would be missing and/or completely wrong with characters other than Ragna/Makoto/Jin ?

Also, where's your Ragna ? ::)

Vans

Re: Blazblue characters?
#13  July 01, 2011, 02:05:51 am
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Play the ga- j/k

MUGEN 1.0 does not give you access to real resolution constants under HD resolutions. The Blazblue resolution is a non-standard HD resolution as well (I still haven't seen an outside coder use the proper one, 768p).

Honestly that point alone kills it, I know this. I tried it myself.

Characters? The drives. Hazama is one example of this, his ouroboros chains require some extremely complex trajectory patterns that are way beyond what Omega Red can do. Why am I bringing up Omega Red? Just ask Cyanide how he had to code his cables. If you had a hard time with those, Hazama's are next to impossible.

Those three characters I mention are the ones with the least polygonal and complex effects. Blazblue mixes 3D and 2D seamlessly, and a LOT of the effects are 3D. Then there's the drives themselves, I think Rachel players should know what I mean.

About my Ragna, I abandoned him for the same reason I've abandoned 5 other projects: SFF and AIR. I no longer have the patience nor the time to compile these myself, it feels like a waste of time for me. :P
Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 02:13:30 am by Vans

JudaiZX

Re: Blazblue characters?
#14  July 01, 2011, 04:18:32 am
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Vans said, July 01, 2011, 02:05:51 am

About my Ragna, I abandoned him for the same reason I've abandoned 5 other projects: SFF and AIR. I no longer have the patience nor the time to compile these myself, it feels like a waste of time for me. :P
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
Vans said, July 01, 2011, 01:46:47 am


The only somewhat feasible characters for conversion are Ragna, Makoto and Jin.
why this? I understand if hazama and carl are hard to convert, but other characters dont seem that hard, like hakumen, tager, rachel, tsubaki, they all could probably be converted for mugen if the right person would make them, I bet someone like Muteki,Akutagawa,Bey, or (9) could probably do it right

Walruslui said, February 07, 2017, 08:13:42 am
youre a fucking meme. another borewood. REIWOOD. SHIP CONFIRMED.
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I will force feed Dark Pit right into your ass if we ever play on wi fi.
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i think this a dark souls of a mugen forums.
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Cybaster

Re: Blazblue characters?
#15  July 01, 2011, 04:22:22 am
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Vans said, July 01, 2011, 02:05:51 am
About my Ragna, I abandoned him for the same reason I've abandoned 5 other projects: SFF and AIR. I no longer have the patience nor the time to compile these myself, it feels like a waste of time for me. :P
But you would learn new things by doing so : nothing is more challenging than aligning by eye a huge bunch of HD sprites !!! ;D

Cyanide

Re: Blazblue characters?
#16  July 01, 2011, 05:30:32 am
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Can tell you right now arakune is impossible to do at all well. That stuff on the bottom of his sprite is a seperate alpha layer or whatever and it MOVES. You could do it static, with custom state bugs. But you cannot make it act like it does in game. at all.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Jesuszilla

Re: Blazblue characters?
#17  July 01, 2011, 05:55:55 am
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MARIO/SONICFAN13: You are trying to argue with Vans, who has tried this. He can code better than you. He says it's not possible. It isn't. You're a kid with these visions, but if you had any sense or you actually tried to code shit CORRECTLY, you'd see why they're impossible.

Cybaster: Quit being a jackass.


Again, Blazblue mixes 2D with 3D, and does so seamlessly. MUGEN cannot handle this. Litchi's staff is a single sprite, but it's undergoing CONSTANT transformations tick-by-tick. MUGEN will freak out at this and slow down, possibly just in her fucking stance if you managed to do that CORRECTLY.

Duos.act

Re: Blazblue characters?
#18  July 01, 2011, 06:04:44 am
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Valkenhayn honestly I don't see being too much a problem outside of the fact that the system itself is going to put you through hoops.  He's probably the most simplistic character in the game. 

We still haven't even got Guilty Gear or Arcana Heart done 100% properly in Mugen, fat chance of Blazblue getting done right for quite a while.

Cybaster

Re: Blazblue characters?
#19  July 01, 2011, 06:05:46 am
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:( I can't even joke anymore. :bigcry:

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Re: Blazblue characters?
#20  July 01, 2011, 06:15:23 am
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The man everyone hates said, July 01, 2011, 04:18:32 am
(9) could probably do it right
Besides the fact that Vans said you can't and he's Vans and has tried -- I doubt 9 could do it correctly, because he takes guesses at important things, and there's even a frame display tool that displays mostly everything one needs for character conversion. One can even retrieve hit velocities easily with artmoney. But you're a sonic fan, so never mind.
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