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JNP's attempted Hi Res style redrawn sprites (Read 4711 times)

Started by JustNoPoint, January 12, 2012, 05:35:31 pm
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JustNoPoint

JNP's attempted Hi Res style redrawn sprites
#1  January 12, 2012, 05:35:31 pm
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http://www.justnopoint.com/Stuff/test/ryu.png

I just wanted to try something. This took me about 30 minutes to make. I traced over Ryu's standing sprite from SFA3 and used the base sprite to recolor it. I added a few brush colors to add a bit more.

Right now I'm just playing around. I don't know if I'll really go anywhere with this. The idea is that if I can make larger sprites this way then I can mix and match characters and their "style" would clash. I can also add a bit more detail as I improve. Thing is it needs to not be very time consuming. 30 min a sprite isn't bad. I could knock out whole animations fairly quickly.

I have not messed with sprites for 3-4 years and this was my 1st attempt at this.

I don't know if I want to keep black lines or not. But to remove them I'd need a quick decent method. I tried a few things but nothing looked right (with fast results.)

While making this all the colors are on their own layer. The palette is not. But I didn't worry about that here. In the non test sprite I'd make palettes from each color group. IE 5-10 colors from the skin, etc and I'd also ask for color separations for the chars.

In the case of Ryu eyes, headband, and pants would be separate. Maybe arms and body ala Andy Bogard's alternate in KOF13. Though that isn't important here :P

EDIT: Also this is fat CPS2 Ryu. I'd need to thin up the original sprites before the real deal.
Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 05:22:45 pm by Just No Point

JustNoPoint

Re: Trying something. Ryu hi res
#2  January 19, 2012, 05:00:53 pm
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Lack of replies are probably a good hint. But for whatever it's worth I tried another one.

LurkerSupreme

Re: Trying something. Ryu hi res
#3  January 19, 2012, 05:20:20 pm
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His thumb looks like its bent at an abnormal angle on his left hand. The left thumb seem to be slightly smaller and flatter near the top in the original. Since your edit doesn't do that it looks like it bends continuously,if that makes any sense.

There also a little nip of flesh on his left shoulder that appears on your edit that doesn't appear on the original. I don't know if it is a miss translation during editing ,but it looks weird.

Looks good otherwise.

Graphicus

Re: Trying something. Ryu hi res
#4  January 26, 2012, 03:45:05 am
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When you up the size of a smallish sprite, there's a lot of "interpreting" that needs to be done and a lot of modifications that need to be done to sort of retain the essence of the original sprite while still making changes.

You shouldn't just color directly over everything exactly as it was, or you might as well not "up-res" it at all. I'm talking about the outlines specifically, which are the most noticeable area.

The chin is a good example. It's not pointy in the original sprite, because the size makes it blend in with the rest of the sprite, especially in its original size. In your up-ressed sprite, it lookes pointy because you went over every line and interpreted the drawing in a literal form (not sure if that's the proper way to express it, but I hope I've made my point anyway).

JustNoPoint

Re: Trying something. Ryu hi res
#5  January 26, 2012, 05:08:20 pm
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LurkerSupreme said, January 19, 2012, 05:20:20 pm
His thumb looks like its bent at an abnormal angle on his left hand. The left thumb seem to be slightly smaller and flatter near the top in the original. Since your edit doesn't do that it looks like it bends continuously,if that makes any sense.

There also a little nip of flesh on his left shoulder that appears on your edit that doesn't appear on the original. I don't know if it is a miss translation during editing ,but it looks weird.

Looks good otherwise.

Thanks, I'll fix those on my next try! I knew the thumb was off but couldn't see why for some reason.

Graphicus said, January 26, 2012, 03:45:05 am
When you up the size of a smallish sprite, there's a lot of "interpreting" that needs to be done and a lot of modifications that need to be done to sort of retain the essence of the original sprite while still making changes.

You shouldn't just color directly over everything exactly as it was, or you might as well not "up-res" it at all. I'm talking about the outlines specifically, which are the most noticeable area.

The chin is a good example. It's not pointy in the original sprite, because the size makes it blend in with the rest of the sprite, especially in its original size. In your up-ressed sprite, it lookes pointy because you went over every line and interpreted the drawing in a literal form (not sure if that's the proper way to express it, but I hope I've made my point anyway).

You are absolutely correct. I've been trying to think of what I can add to the sprite as well. The main reason for upping is to attempt a fast process at making characters from any game blend together. Right now I'm still in the test phase. I'll try to add more to the next one =)

JustNoPoint

Re: Trying something. Ryu and Morrigan hi res
#6  March 14, 2012, 05:17:52 pm
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Still practicing and tweaking.

Foobs

Re: JNP's attempted Hi Res style redrawn sprites
#7  March 14, 2012, 06:11:16 pm
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I wouldn't stick to a universal outline color if I were you. You're losing quite a bit of detail in Ryu's face since his eyebrows mesh with his hair and headband's outlines.

JustNoPoint

Re: JNP's attempted Hi Res style redrawn sprites
#8  March 14, 2012, 06:23:43 pm
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I'll play around in areas like that and see what I can come up with to fix that. Small tweaks aren't a big deal. For the most part the universal outlines will stay because it'd take too long for proper antialias for entire characters.  But it wouldn't take too long to go in on the face a bit more since it's so important.

Thanks!

Cybaster

Re: JNP's attempted Hi Res style redrawn sprites
#9  March 14, 2012, 06:52:20 pm
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Ryu's big toe on his left foot is really squarish and ugly.
Apart from that, I agree with the outline concerning the face. I'd even say make make outline a different colour for everything skin related, if that's not too much work. Universal outline for the rest is fine.

JustNoPoint

Re: JNP's attempted Hi Res style redrawn sprites
#10  March 14, 2012, 07:13:24 pm
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I'll fix the toe (technically I'm going to be redoing Ryu completely). Also Morrigan. These were practice. I forgot to resize Morrigan to SFA size. The DS sprites are slightly smaller than the SFA sprites.

I'll try changing the color for the outline on skin and hair on those like you suggest as well.

Morrigan was pretty complicated. I learned a lot making her that should make Ryu look a bit better too.

Any other color separations you guys want to suggest for Ryu before I begin the real sprite and standing animation? I noticed I forgot to make the white of his eye a different color. And I can also add the gloves from SF4 on his hands. So his hands need to have full glove and fingers exposed glove color potential.

Graphicus

Re: JNP's attempted Hi Res style redrawn sprites
#11  March 15, 2012, 02:21:31 am
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You're redrawing too much... like I mentioned earlier, with the increased pixel count, you have the chance to add more detail, but you need to make sure that you're making changes responsibly so that it doesn't end up looking TOO different.

Essentially, you have to ask yourself: "Why did he put this pixel here?" and then think "Ah, he did it because clearly there wasn't enough space to do X, so by changing the color of the pixel, you still get the same effect within the constricted space".

Until you understand what that "X" is, you won't be able to do the original sprite justice. That's what I meant by "interpreting". I'm not preaching to you, don't get me wrong... I suck at this too, because I have the same difficulty.

An example is Morrigan's face. In the original sprite, if you pay attention, she's NOT facing completely sideways, yet you upscaled her that way. If you check, there's some black to the right of her nose, which is clearly her other eye (you can see that horizontal eyelash line there too which confirms it).

A lot of people suggested getting rid of the black outlines. This is not just an aesthetic thing... I really think they're hampering your progress... you don't have to implement the anti-aliasing right now if you don't feel confident, but at least apply the same outline color as in the original sprite... I really think it'll help you gauge other things properly that you may not see clearly right now because of it...

Hope that makes sense? Again, it's just an opinion, so do what you feel you want to do.

EDIT: Also, you might want to upscale the original sprite by a whole number instead of a decimal one (x1, x2, etc... instead of x1.35 or x2.68)... I know you won't get the exact size you want, but at least your pixels won't look all garbled.
Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 02:25:47 am by Graphicus

JustNoPoint

Re: JNP's attempted Hi Res style redrawn sprites
#12  March 15, 2012, 03:51:30 am
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Thanks again Graphicus!


Quote
An example is Morrigan's face. In the original sprite, if you pay attention, she's NOT facing completely sideways, yet you upscaled her that way. If you check, there's some black to the right of her nose, which is clearly her other eye (you can see that horizontal eyelash line there too which confirms it).
Yep you are right. When I was making her face (using my blacklines method), her face was too cluttered. I couldn't make it look right. So I changed it to something that looked tolerable.
 If I wasn't using the black outline I wouldn't have had that issue. It's not that I don't understand the anti alias or how to implement it. It is how time consuming it is to do.
That being said I can still tweak the outline some more till I can find something we can all agree on. While making my comic I noticed I have a problem with how I accept feedback so I hope you bear with me and keep pushing me. I tend to have a certain goal set (in this case when I 1st read what you say I am all like, NO! That takes more time and I want to start animating now!!!). Basically I have the noob reaction :P But then I go off and keep thinking about it and add the feedback to my work.

So what I'm going to do is not start till I get an acceptable base done. I really don't think I'll add a lot of anti alias. I'll probably add more to the face though. If the sprites become too time consuming I won't want to tackle this. Speaking for myself I am happy with what I have. That doesn't mean I can't add just a bit more work to make them look nicer. :)

Quote
Also, you might want to upscale the original sprite by a whole number instead of a decimal one (x1, x2, etc... instead of x1.35 or x2.68)... I know you won't get the exact size you want, but at least your pixels won't look all garbled.

CPS2 scale is stretched. So I upscale the sprites from 384 width to 640. I used to remember how to remove the CPS2 stretch from the sprites without losing or distorting pixels. But I forgot and since I'm just retracing the sprites it didn't seem a huge issue. I retrace in 1280 res, color flats, add shading, then downsize back to 640 and make tweaks.

Keep giving me feedback! I'm probably already fighting you on suggestions that I'll later see the error of my ways on XD
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