YesNoOk

Let's update Kung Fu Man (Read 115056 times)

Started by JustNoPoint, January 01, 2016, 04:31:05 pm

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JustNoPoint

Let's update Kung Fu Man

#1 January 01, 2016, 04:31:05 pm

For the longest time KFM has been a pretty faulty starting point that's been packed with MUGEN forever now.
I'm ready to tackle changing this!

For now this thread is to organize and figure out the scope and direction of this project.

To start, how will we circulate this to quasi replace KFM? Obviously here on Guild we will want to replace the KFM that's in our hosted MUGENs including the Starter Pack. I'd like to extend out to other places that host the program to do the same.
It probably helps that most people coming here probably get the program from here. Since Elecbyte is still down.
And of course there will be a separate release.

What all do we wish to update?

I suppose we should start by going through each portion of CNS, CMD, etc and updating/adding more notes.

Example:
You would quote the original block(s) you are updating

Code:

;---------------------------------------------------------------------------
; Taunt
; CNS difficulty: easy
[Statedef 195]
type = S
ctrl = 0
anim = 195
velset = 0,0
movetype = I
physics = S
sprpriority = 2

[State 195, 1]
type = CtrlSet
trigger1 = Time = 40
value = 1

[State 195, 2]
type = ChangeState
trigger1 = AnimTime = 0
value = 0
ctrl = 1

Then you'd post your modified version.

Spoiler: I figure the modified version should be in spoiler to save scrolling space? (click to see content)

While some are helping on the coding side I figure I can bring back the Graphic Arts contests so we can add optional new animations to KFM. Along with some new basics so he can have all 6 buttons mapped.

After the update to the current coding is completed we should update other aspects (note any of these I list do NOT have to wait till after the current coding is updated if a person wishes to skip ahead. Just note that old coding may be modified so be sure it wouldn't conflict)

Help me list what all should be added to KFM I'm sure I will not remember everything
2-3 variant projectile attacks
Corner Push
Juggle system
Charge moves
a 360 and/or 720
Damage Dampener?

Another thought is to have 2 versions of KFM. A starter KFM and an advanced KFM
The reason I suggest this is because many things we may add can create more coding within the character's standard code which could intimidate and confuse starting creators. An advanced KFM could be set up in a way where each palette could be a different play style. Like having popular play mechanics.

Since the graphics contest typically had prizes for the winners I am offering choices from my gift Steam library. If anyone else wishes to pool some potential prizes let me know as well.

Spoiler: What I have (click to see content)

Any questions, feedback, concerns, or suggestions?

FeLo_Llop

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#2 January 01, 2016, 04:52:24 pm

¡Ni p*ta ni santa! ¡Digo!

I like it!!! It can even work for clumsy people(as I am) and learning about what each line says and understand it

I swear there was something cool here!!

Slayer.

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#3 January 01, 2016, 04:58:17 pm

Rurouni Fan
The dream is nothing yet drive us to the end.

About animations, I have some optionals for him:
Shock, Midnight Bliss, frozen and Z2 Dash Collision.

One day someone will rip the Inuyasha stages... Not today nor tomorrow, probably not even in this decade. But you know, someday... :')

Did you play the new

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

hatter

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#4 January 01, 2016, 04:58:57 pm

Somewhere between Guilty Gear and real rap
ey b0ss

I'm down for makimg new anims for KFM, it shouldn't be that hard to do. And I like this idea, since KFM is a base that is used by coders to create chars, an update will help me a lot when I start to learn how to code chars for my full game project in the future. :3 :3 :3

As for optional anims, CvS2 chip K.O., Sangue=Passare, and KoF blowback (IDk the name, the animation in which the opponent is sent flying?), and hard knockdown.

This is a generic forum signature.

Staubhold

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#5 January 01, 2016, 05:12:11 pm

The Chaos has ended. You will be remembered!

I really like that idea!

How about things like:

Power Charge
Super Jump
Parry
Projectile reflect

JustNoPoint

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#6 January 01, 2016, 05:23:28 pm

That'd be done in the advanced version. Or there could be game specific versions. Like KOF98 KFM or something along that line. Using the most simplest of characters KFM as a base to give game specific code. But let's not turn this thread into a wishlist of features.

For now let's stick to the base idea. Version 1. Which should be much more basic. Focusing on updating his current build mostly. Maybe adding a new move or 2 to teach the popular ways to do them.

Combo Dampener may be too niche and it may overcomplicate the current coding too. That may need to be in a more advanced or game specific KFM.

Thedge

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#7 January 01, 2016, 05:34:43 pm

Lazy spriter
Demon in heaven gotta carry a knife

I'm in for new animations, I always found that his strong basics doesn't seem like strong attacks, let's leave them as the medium buttons and sprite the fierce moves.
If we are not setting any deadline and anyone is not already into it I would like to sprite a roundhouse kick.
And I don't want any payment, is a debt I think I have to the Mugen engine.

That’s when I thought, “good grief”
Just ain’t my belief
Until I saw the holes
Inside his hand

JustNoPoint

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#8 January 01, 2016, 05:39:24 pm

Feel free to do so

And I agree his strong attacks feel more like medium attacks.

And if you wanted to submit it to the Graphics contest when/if I post it up you still can. Right now I'm in brainstorm phase. I won't make the contest or begin really starting this till I feel I've left this up long enough to get feedback on the things I've mentioned. So probably in a week I'll get this actually moving by updating code myself and making the contest.

@AerosMugen: Would it harm your artistic vision to place a frame that can use the play through animation code?

Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 06:25:17 pm by Just No Point

Graphicus

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#9 January 01, 2016, 08:21:50 pm

Some day I'll finish this thing...

Another idea is to update KFM for basic coding and make Suave Dude for advanced coding. He could have projectile attacks and attack concepts that KFM doesn't have.

If you guys think this will help me learn code, I'll be happy to contribute as well, if you'll have me.

Check out my animation! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y-4NQiSd9U

My Graphics Thread: http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/graphicus-sprite-extravaganza-170782.0.html

Current WIPs: Pegasus Seiya 5th Cloth (3rd for the Anime).
Project Thread: http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/pegasus-seiya-5th-cloth-project-page-144581.0.html

JustNoPoint

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#10 January 01, 2016, 08:52:46 pm

The only thing bad about the Suave Dude idea is that we'd have to make every sprite for him. Where with KFM we only have to add.

And of course you can help! I hope this project can teach you too!

Jesuszilla

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#11 January 01, 2016, 09:11:03 pm

Loyal to the Game

Remove the OTG he has with his c.HK.
Change the CLSN style to either Capcom or SNK. It's kind of a tough call considering he's 4-button, yet feels more like he was made with Capcom in mind. If we're converting him to 6-button, then definitely Capcom.
Change the default friction values to be the same for both standing and crouching so combos are consistent. I'd recommend either the KOF standard, .828125 (which Vans and I use), since that's the only one we can actually get from a real game, or .85 as the Phantom.of.the.Server standard (which many people are trying to be these days).
For the standard KFM, either Jmorphman palette system (var-based) or WinMUGEN palette system (simplest).
For the advanced KFM, palette selector like Kamekaze.
A KOF-style MAX combo system might be appealing in the advanced KFM. This will show people how to maintain variables as well as make a custom bar.

Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 09:24:07 pm by Jesuszilla

AlexSin

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#12 January 01, 2016, 09:27:19 pm

There's also this: http://www.vans.trinitymugen.net/home/mugenbug.html

Jesuszilla

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#13 January 01, 2016, 09:33:09 pm

Loyal to the Game

Yes, that definitely needs to be addressed. I believe it also applies to jump attacks that use gravity or veladd with a trigger that's active at Time = 0 (such as trigger1 = 1). I came to this realization while updating VC Felicia with her dash attacks and wondering why I was never getting a consistent distance.

Zzyzzyxx

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#14 January 02, 2016, 12:44:27 am

I hate coding helpers.

The normal KFM has a problem with Smash Kung Fu Upper that must be considered.

Give him 100 life (10x less) and 1000 defence (10x more)

Hit him with Smash Kung Fu Upper.

The Smash Kung will deal 86% damage due to the line fall.damage = 70 in the code.

You guys don't want this in your fixed version.

This is the most blatant bug I can remember in his codes at the moment, but I'll make sure to keep you guys aware of more issues I can find.

Jmorphman

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#15 January 02, 2016, 01:04:34 am

If you’re gonna reach for a star...
reach for the lowest one you can.

I like the idea of having Suave Dude (or just an Advanced KFM, since a whole sprite set for Suave Dude is a tall order) serve as a niche, covering more advanced topics like projectiles and charge moves and what not. The standard KFM could just get a fairly simple upgrade, like, I dunno, maybe constrained to things already exist in KFM, but are broken. So stuff like juggle system being broken, or corner push, stuff like that. Both the bugs unique to KFM and also the general MUGEN stuff that requires workarounds to achieve the correct behavior.

Jesuszilla said, January 01, 2016, 09:11:03 pm

For the standard KFM, either Jmorphman palette system (var-based)

I wouldn't recommend anyone using my system because it's really bad, dumb, and confusing to users. And it only exists because I personally have a huge dislike of having to select grooves or palettes or TOP bars or whatever right before the match.

Jango

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#16 January 02, 2016, 01:32:23 am

Double-Crosser
I'm not standing out. This isn't weird at all.

Yeah selecting palettes before a fight starts pulls me out of the immersion of being a character fighting something. Leave groove selects and shit for something else. Kung Fu Man is really just a basic-level tutorial character, so the only updates should focus on fixing his bugs and demonstrating stuff in the docs that he doesn't cover normally, with maybe a Kung Fu Man 2.0 demonstrating more advanced code. Like how there's tutorials based on "beginner, intermediate, advanced," but with different iterations of the same character.

Jmorphman

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#17 January 02, 2016, 01:52:01 am

If you’re gonna reach for a star...
reach for the lowest one you can.

I think there might be a case to be made for maybe giving KFM a projectile, both because that's a very basic, universal fighting game feature, and because the Projectile stcrl is broken and the docs aren't that helpful in teaching a new user how to code a projectile using helpers.

Jango Brown said, January 02, 2016, 01:32:23 am

Yeah selecting palettes before a fight starts pulls me out of the immersion of being a character fighting something. Leave groove selects and shit for something else

There's nowhere else to put a groove select, though!

JustNoPoint

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#18 January 02, 2016, 02:09:17 am

Another thing to update is his throws and custom states so that they use TargetState. I was using him as an example to code a wall bounce and he was using P2StateNo in the hitdef. I think I may had used that for Ryu's throws a year back too. I remembered that MUGEN class said to use TargetState in the event both players hit each other.

As for palette selection and stuff, I think it is pretty popular and would work good as an option for a specific palette. Example hold start and press "a" to pick KFM with pal selection.

I was thinking advanced KFM might have more popular features like parries and such spread across the 12 palettes. It'd help teach how to do that kind of thing I think.

Cyanide

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#19 January 02, 2016, 02:24:10 am

Legendary XIII
I am the eye of the storm to come!

No selection systems please. Not in either of them. I would in fact say nothing that replicates ANYTHING in an existing game directly. Not combo system. Not any sort of commercial method. You want people to learn from the character, not sprite swap it.

Examples of attacks. KFM needs an attack that takes him into the air and back down again to show how landing works outside of jump. A projectile is a must. Probably just a simple shuriken. Perhaps something that positions him behind P2 as this is a common thing people want to do.

Yes to a re-do of the clsns. His are OK but sometimes they're badly stupid. Moving to capcom or SNK styling for them would be a much better option.

There are also a few fixes required in the common1.cns file

I would not say he should actually have the sprites for the optional animations in many cases. But the animations themselves should be in the character and left as placeholders in some way. I would say leave them commented out, but very few people know how to read an Air file these days and would never see them. All the blood type and nationality stuff is neat and should be in. But you need to make sure people can see it.

In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Zzyzzyxx

Re: Let's update Kung Fu Man

#20 January 02, 2016, 02:40:06 am

I hate coding helpers.

Cyanide said, January 02, 2016, 02:24:10 am

KFM needs an attack that takes him into the air and back down again to show how landing works outside of jump.

You mean, like the Kung Fu Knee?

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